High School student strip searched

This forum always has interesting discussions about civil liberties. Try this one on:

http://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/education-ministers-defends-respectful-strip-searches-of-students

A Quebec high school student was strip searched by school administrators looking for pot. Her request to call her mother was denied. Police were not called.

Since the search was carried out according to an established policy, including no touching, use of a screen and the searchers being female as well, the search was defended by the provincial education minister.

I feel like this might not fly in the U.S.

I was strip searched twice (on campus, but by police) during highschool. Once when I was working late in the theatre department when some chemicals were stolen from the science wing, and once when I entered immediately during/following a bomb scare. Funny thing - both times, after the search, my pocket knife and leatherman were returned to me without question. I don't think that part would go as well in 2015 as it did in 1997...

Quote: rdw4potus

I don't think that part would go as well in 2015 as it did in 1997...

Can't believe in 1997 you were not booked and processed. Even in the 1980s.

Quote: dwheatley

I feel like this might not fly in the U.S.

It would fly easy here. Too many people wanting to take and too many people wanting to give up rights. A subset would complain but be shouted down.

Heck, in CA a parent has no say if a boy wants to use the girls locker room. Just one example.

Quote: AZDuffman

It would fly easy here. Too many people wanting to take and too many people wanting to give up rights. A subset would complain but be shouted down.

It's not just willingness to give up rights. Moreso, I think, it's simple ignorance. People really do not know their rights. I mean, just ask the people here who have been backroomed at a casino. I know I've read stories. If they were backroomed, and they're not now sitting on six figures, chances are these people were ignorant of their rights. Traffic stops? How many of you have rolled down your window, handed over your info, and answered all questions asked of you? And of you, how many knew you didn't have to?

It's simple ignorance. Of course a high school teen is going to follow the orders of authority. I likewise wouldn't expect my own son to know to resist in the face of principal and possible police presence. But dad sure does. And hell would be paid, in full.

Quote: AZDuffman

Can't believe in 1997 you were not booked and processed. Even in the 1980s.

I think I benefited from circumstances in a couple ways. 1. benefit of growing up in a small town. Knives are tools, damnit! 2. when there's an urgent search for chemicals and/or bombs, nobody has the time/interest/capacity to deal with the kid who "just" has a sharp tool in his pocket.

A 15 year old girl. It doesn't say, but I hope it was the school nurse who stood by and not some perv. I don't care if it was behind a blanket. It was wrong and I hope she sues the pants off them. See what I did there? :-)

Quote: AZDuffman

It would fly easy here. Too many people wanting to take and too many people wanting to give up rights. A subset would complain but be shouted down.

Heck, in CA a parent has no say if a boy wants to use the girls locker room. Just one example.

Based on Safford Unified School District #1 v. Redding, a school can conduct a strip search if there is "sufficient suspicion to warrant" it.

As for boys in the girls' locker room, here is what Section 225.1(f) of California's Education Code now says:

"A pupil shall be permitted to participate in sex-segregated school programs and activities, including athletic teams and competitions, and use facilities consistent with his or her gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records."

In other words...yes. In fact, the California Interscholastic Federation (the organization that oversees the state's high school sports) has already established an appeal process for, e.g., "boys who identify as girls" who want to play on a girls' team, or in a sport such as softball that is normally open only to girls.

Quote: rdw4potus

Knives are tools, damnit!

I had a friend in college who scientifically proved beyond all doubt that pocket knives are tools, not weapons!

He owned a Craftsman pocket knife and it broke. Sears' policy is (at least it was -- I assume it still is) that they will replace any broken Craftsman hand tools for free. He took it back to Sears and they replaced it free of charge. Therefore, we must conclude that a pocket knife is, indeed, a tool!

It's Ok as long as it's done respectfully. That's nuts. It's like saying it's Ok to chop of peoples heads if done neatly so you don't make to big a mess.

Weed? Are they kidding? My kid would never again darken the door of that evil place.

Quote: rdw4potus

I think I benefited from circumstances in a couple ways. 1. benefit of growing up in a small town. Knives are tools, damnit! 2. when there's an urgent search for chemicals and/or bombs, nobody has the time/interest/capacity to deal with the kid who "just" has a sharp tool in his pocket.

Years ago almost all adult males carried pocket knives all the time. Judgement used to be allowed--see my post on carrying a rifle into the C-Store in hunting season in PA. What is too bad is that we have largely lost the ability to use common sense.

Quote: Face

How many of you have rolled down your window, handed over your info, and answered all questions asked of you?

Is that what you suggest everyone do, like the youtube video? Just hold our id and proof of insurance and vehicle registration against the glass so the cop can read it and a little sticker that says you want your lawyer? Really?

Anyone who wants or still believes they have "rights" gets a big "kudos" from me. Plenty have offered to "hold my coat", while I tried to right, wrongs.

The way it was, unless something changed was, if you had been pulled over, or a parking ticket or a talking to by the cops in Cour de lene Idaho more than once or twice in a calender month, the best advice I had was either change your vehicle [permanently] or leave town. I assume it is still that way. Maybe mostly small towns, but once the word is out among the troopers about a trouble maker in a "black pick-up", you are on their feces list and can't get off of it.

I was too busy trying to make a living to fight with them. They have teams, comrades, accomplice's, and other 3 letter agency's, fish and game, troopers, city, state dot, etc. and they share notes and thoughts. Word gets around, and then they are "gunning" for you.

I am just suggesting, pick your battles wisely. There really is only time in our lives for a few long, protracted defenses for causes. Kids, will change your thoughts.

Rights, hehe. We have the illusion of rights to, well, keep us from rebelling.

Quote: AZDuffman

What is too bad is that we have largely lost the ability to use common sense.

Most of society has little, if any, common sense.

It's much simpler to enforce adherence to a procedure than to determine the relative merits of each circumstance.

Quote: 1BB

A 15 year old girl. It doesn't say, but I hope it was the school nurse who stood by and not some perv. I don't care if it was behind a blanket. It was wrong and I hope she sues the pants off them. See what I did there? :-)

OP stated that a female observed and the girl was not touched while stripping. This begs another question, if they can't forcefully take off your clothes, why would you strip?

I'm usually the first person to jump on the bandwagon that high schoolers have 0 rights, which is true to a point. Her request to call her mother should have been honored if the strip search was justified. If I were her dad, I'd be furious about that part. She can't really defend herself, legally speaking, at that age and doesn't know her rights. Anything beyond detention should be run by the parents (as a parent I'd like to know about this too).

Lastly, I'm pretty sure this girl was dealing nor at least a known smoker. I don't think any non-smokers that I know would joke about selling weed, it's just a really weird thing to joke about.

Quote: Dieter

Most of society has little, if any, common sense.

It's much simpler to enforce adherence to a procedure than to determine the relative merits of each circumstance.

Simpler, yes. But so much is lost. A huge problem is if someone's common sense goes bad then society wants to stop using it. A normal person uses common sense in life. If something goes bad, you adjust. But say a cop uses common sense 100 times and 99 of the times it worked out, one time the guy he let off with a warning caused a problem. So society says, "NO MORE WARNINGS!" Then we lose freedom and are in a police state.

Quote: petroglyph

Is that what you suggest everyone do, like the youtube video? Just hold our id and proof of insurance and vehicle registration against the glass so the cop can read it and a little sticker that says you want your lawyer? Really?

I'll wait...

Quote: petroglyph

I am just suggesting, pick your battles wisely. There really is only time in our lives for a few long, protracted defenses for causes.

Ahh, I knew you'd get to my page =)

I'm not an extremist. If you got a blinker out, and you know you got a blinker out, and there' nothing for you worry about, no, don't pester the cops. Risk / reward, it ain't worth the hassle.

But know your rights. That way, when you are the victim of an attempted backroom and your livelihood is at stake, you have the knowledge to protect it. Or when your piece gets uncomfortable so you tuck it in the seat, you can prevent a felony stop with you having your face in the dirt. Or when a joke finds you in the position to suffer the indignity of being stripped, you can prevent it (or at least cash in huge on the assault).

That's what I'm saying. Know your rights. And protect them.

In 1967 I had never even heard of weed,
if there were drugs in my HS I never heard
about them. The year after I left, 1968, all
hell broke loose. People say The 60's, but
the real 60's didn't start till about 1966 or
so, and lasted into the early 70's. On the
west coast it started earlier, in the Bay
Area, but it really didn't affect the country
till later. The Summer of Love was in 67,
and by the time Easy Rider and Woodstock
happened in 69, everybody I knew was
smoking pot.

Quote: AZDuffman

Can't believe in 1997 you were not booked and processed. Even in the 1980s.



It would fly easy here. Too many people wanting to take and too many people wanting to give up rights. A subset would complain but be shouted down.

Heck, in CA a parent has no say if a boy wants to use the girls locker room. Just one example.

I was. 2001, broken knife in my truck on campus. Knife would absolutely not open, locking mechanism locked it shut. Buried at the bottom of my glove box, completely forgotten about.
"Random Search". Cop had a huge Napoleon Complex, added on top of the fact that my older brother picked on him when they were in HS. I got charged, given community service, attended special classes, and was on probation 2 years. Probation included extra caveats, such us school suspension = big boy jail time ("crime" was committed at 17, convicted at 18).

Found out later the search wasn't as random as I thought.
I went through hell for 6 months because of a broken piece of steel and a dick cop.

Quote: BoulderDamIt

Found out later the search wasn't as random as I thought.

Random is rarely random.

When I was in management they told the story of a branch with an employee they really needed to get rid of. So they had the idea pf taking a few people for a "random" drug test. Problem happened when he came back clean but 2 people they liked came back dirty. Ooops!

Quote: Face

I'll wait...



Ahh, I knew you'd get to my page =)

I'm not an extremist. If you got a blinker out, and you know you got a blinker out, and there' nothing for you worry about, no, don't pester the cops. Risk / reward, it ain't worth the hassle.

But know your rights. That way, when you are the victim of an attempted backroom and your livelihood is at stake, you have the knowledge to protect it. Or when your piece gets uncomfortable so you tuck it in the seat, you can prevent a felony stop with you having your face in the dirt. Or when a joke finds you in the position to suffer the indignity of being stripped, you can prevent it (or at least cash in huge on the assault).

That's what I'm saying. Know your rights. And protect them.

I know in tribal casinos we have no rights.

Quote: Hunterhill

I know in tribal casinos we have no rights.

Willing victim: noun - a person who is ready, eager, or prepared to become harmed, injured, or killed as the result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

Different =/= none. Less =/= none. Know your rights. Don't be a willing victim.

Quote: Face

I'll wait...

So will they. Only they are being paid to wait, sucking on Starbuck's and eating jelly donuts. It gets old being late to work, or getting home or to a hockey championship. Yeah you can win the battle but still lose, is all I'm sayin.

Quote:

"you can prevent a felony stop with you having your face in the dirt."

Also learn to duck your head when being shoved in the cruiser, often times it isn't like we see on an episode of "cops" where they so courteously make sure your cranium misses the side of their squad car.

Quote:

" Or when a joke finds you in the position to suffer the indignity of being stripped, you can prevent it (or at least cash in huge on the assault)."

How much you think they will pay me for a strip search? I'm am pretty sure when they are done laughing, the city or the insurance company will willingly pay. Or maybe they can write it off as psycho therapy for drug dogs, they could let the dogs bite me to help with their low self esteem?

They can easily forcibly take a blood sample, that galls me. All currency that has been in circulation has trace elements of snortable drugs on it according to a test in Seattle years ago. IIRC it was around 80% of twenty's and 100% of 100's had measurable illegal drug contamination on them. Right there, is probable cause to do whatever they choose, it just depends on how much they wish to pursue you in particular. My dogs were on "hand" signals, that if you didn't know, were not detectable. If I wanted him to indicate you were guilty of anything, he would not only do so immediately, he would enjoy it. Just like K-9 units.

Quote:

That's what I'm saying. Know your rights. And protect them.

I agree with you totally in principle and I have been "that guy", many times. At this stage of my journey, I really appreciate you guys as it appears to me that our numbers get fewer and fewer. I look at it now like "what would Sun Tzu do". I am guilty of nothing that I am aware of.