The Agonizingly Slow Death of Soccer

Ok, that may be more wishful thinking than fact.

The fact is killing soccer is what it will take for people to quit pestering me with it. Here are two examples:

1) It's common to do a department pool for "major" soccer tournaments. These kinds of small office bets are different than in America and elsewhere. For the World Cup, the idea is to predict the result of every game, adding secnod and third round games on each round, and whoever has the highest score wins. Fine. Except when I said I wasn't interested, all my coworkers got very upset and demanded I pony up the money and fill out scores for the 48 or so games in the first round. Of course I still refused, which caused a blizzard of indignation in the office.

Ok, I will occasionally bet on soccer around world cup time. Not that I'm interested, and I've never watched a game I bet on, but because sometimes I win. When that happens, the look of incredulity and outrage in the soccer fan's face is pricelss.

But, come on, filling out 48 individual results I'm not interested in? Following up the rest of the omnth as teams qualify for other rounds? That's work.

2) Mexico played the inagural game against South Africa last week. The game was trnasmited at 8:30 am local time, which happens to be the time when I usually arrive at the office. Everyone else at the office wanted to see the game, plus the preceeding opening ceremony, so they decided to meet for breakfast at a restaurant next door to the office at 7 am.

When I said I wouldn't go, well, I expect there are volcanoes that erupt less violently than the response I got. One frequent question was "How can you not watch the National Team play?" My answer was "It's still soccer, isn't it?"

I can understand getting up earlier than usual in order to do or see something you're intersted in. But in order to see something you're not interested in?

I understand where you're coming from.

I watch the SuperBowl only for the commercials. Despite the repitious attempts to get me to buy a box in dozens of pools that circulate my office, I don't participate at all.

Quote: Nareed

...plus the preceeding opening ceremony, so they decided to meet for breakfast at a restaurant next door to the office at 7 am.

When I said I wouldn't go, well, I expect there are volcanoes that erupt less violently than the response I got.

On the other hand, I tend to watch and enjoy the SuperBowl Halftime show, as well as the Opening Ceremony for Olympics, so, I can almost understand their reaction to you passing on the breakfast meeting. Until they went and made it about the game, rather than the ceremony:

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..."How can you not watch the National Team play?"

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I watch the SuperBowl only for the commercials. Despite the repitious attempts to get me to buy a box in dozens of pools that circulate my office, I don't participate at all.

I don't bet on games I want to watch, it leeches all enjoyment out of them.

Anyway, that's what I mean. I know about the SB commercials, but in mexico we don't get to see them. Instead we get local ads, which are the same ones that run all year anyway.

Quote:

On the other hand, I tend to watch and enjoy the SuperBowl Halftime show, as well as the Opening Ceremony for Olympics, so, I can almost understand their reaction to you passing on the breakfast meeting. Until they went and made it about the game, rather than the ceremony:

I tend to skip the Superbowl halftime. For me it's about the game and only the game. I enjoy the opening rituals of getting someone famous or notable to toss the coin, and the fly-over by Air Force fighters. But that takes very little time.

I don't watch the opening ceremonies for the Olympics, either Winter or Summer. Just not my thing. So the opening for the World Cup holds no interest either.

BTW How is it that for the Summer Olympics one city and sometimes its surrounding area, are enough to host dozens of different sports for thousands of athletes, while in the World Cup you need an entire country to host one sport and surely less than 1,500 participants?

Quote: Nareed

BTW How is it that for the Summer Olympics one city and sometimes its surrounding area, are enough to host dozens of different sports for thousands of athletes, while in the World Cup you need an entire country to host one sport and surely less than 1,500 participants?

Because the Olympics has dozens of different types of games, using different types of venues. A single city can accomodate that.

Heck, some of the smaller sports use the same venue at the same time!


Soccer? You need all those soccer stadiums all at once. How many cities, or greater metropolitan areas, have more than a few that can be used at the same time?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Soccer? You need all those soccer stadiums all at once. How many cities, or greater metropolitan areas, have more than a few that can be used at the same time?

Mexico City and surroundings have 3 and one half pro-soccer stadiums. Depending on what you mean by the sorrounding area, say up to a 2 hour drive away, then there are 5 and one half stadiums. At 4 games per day, that should suffice. Add another half hour's drive, and you get yet another stadium.

BTW the half stadium has a full-size field, but seating for less than 30,000 people (perhaps less than 20,000), which makes it too small for major events.

Politics, I think. Organizers want to "spread the wealth." Part of the reason why the U.S. World Cup was held in Detroit, Dallas, L.A., New York, Miami, etc., which was ridiculous, since they just have easily could have held it in the Northeast Corridor and saved a bunch of money. (Just off the top of my head, you had Giants Stadium, Foxboro, RFK field, Veterans Stadium, Boston College's stadium, maybe expand it to the Carrier Dome and Rich Field in Buffalo ... Three Rivers ...)

Another thing that bothers me about soccer is the violence. The game itself is not violent or even rough, like say Football or hockey. But lots of fans all over the world wallow in violence before and after the game. Maybe you've heard of English hooligans and German skinheads at or near soccer games. But there's a lot more.

1) In 1986 Colombia arrived at the World Cup with great expectations, yet it was eliminated in the first round. One player, I forget who, scored a goal against his own team (about the equivalent of a safety in Football). Shortly after he returned to Colombia, and long before the 86 cup was over, he was murdered at some bar. I don't recall who killed him or why, or if there was an official finding one way or another, but rumors ranged from a disgruntled fan to a hit by drug lords.

2) Whenever two of the local Mex City teams play, America and UNAM (never mind the names), the police sets up separate entrances and exits for the "official" support/cheer squads for each team. They're even given separate routes in and out. If they chance to meet, it's like a matter-antimatter reaction. Regular fans are warned not to wear team colors on the street on the way to the game. Mostly fights are kept to a minimum, but the squads wind up shouting obscenities at each other's side all game long.

3) In Mexico sometimes fans throw firecrackers, big ones, to the stands lower down. People have been maimed and badly hurt. In the old days they threw beer bottle at the referee, too. Bottles have been baned from the stands.

What gives? Why the constant rioting, brawling and all around mayhem.

Quote: Nareed

1) In 1986 Colombia arrived at the World Cup with great expectations, yet it was eliminated in the first round. One player, I forget who, scored a goal against his own team (about the equivalent of a safety in Football). Shortly after he returned to Colombia, and long before the 86 cup was over, he was murdered at some bar. I don't recall who killed him or why, or if there was an official finding one way or another, but rumors ranged from a disgruntled fan to a hit by drug lords.

It was '94 and Andres Escobar. Also, an own goal is way more damaging than a safety. But we'll let it slide since you're not a soccer fan ... :)

Quote: teddys

It was '94 and Andres Escobar. Also, an own goal is way more damaging than a safety. But we'll let it slide since you're not a soccer fan ... :)

You're right. Why did I think it was in 86? Anyway, the dates may be wrong, but the underlying facts are the same.

I know an own goal, if that be the term in English, is worse than a safety. Soccer employs a simplistic scoring system where every score is worth the same, unlike Football. But I can't give a tutorial every time I criticize Soccer.

BTW the editorials asking "When will America embrace soccer?" have already started. These pieces make two incredibly egregious mistakes:

1) They single out America as the sole country in the world where Soccer isn't the most popular sport. This ignores the entire Indian Sub-continent, Canada, Japan, Israel, Australia, South Africa(!) and many other countries where soccer is at best a distant second to other sports.

2) America doesn't need soccer. There's already a boring, low-scoring sport enjoyed by a sizable fraction of the US population: Baseball. Soccer would be redundant.

Quote: Nareed

You're right. Why did I think it was in 86? Anyway, the dates may be wrong, but the underlying facts are the same.

I know an own goal, if that be the term in English, is worse than a safety. Soccer employs a simplistic scoring system where every score is worth the same, unlike Football. But I can't give a tutorial every time I criticize Soccer.

BTW the editorials asking "When will America embrace soccer?" have already started. These pieces make two incredibly egregious mistakes:

1) They single out America as the sole country in the world where Soccer isn't the most popular sport. This ignores the entire Indian Sub-continent, Canada, Japan, Israel, Australia, South Africa(!) and many other countries where soccer is at best a distant second to other sports.

2) America doesn't need soccer. There's already a boring, low-scoring sport enjoyed by a sizable fraction of the US population: Baseball. Soccer would be redundant.

Occasionally I organized that box pool for the Super Bowl at my work...many people didn't want to play, and I was never upset. Some people don't find any enjoyment out of gambling, don't want to "waste" the money, or don't care about the sport. Your coworkers seemed out of line, but I can't speak for other cultures. Bring in a betting game that you come up with and force them to play. See how they like it.

As an American who hates soccer, for many reasons, I appreciate your comments. I really don't believe that we'll ever embrace soccer, I mean there's a good portion of the country that enjoys it and it would be nice to have a team to unite under... it's just not in our blood. Oh, and f u about baseball it's not boring - it's amazing. At least when you bet the money line in baseball, you don't lose on ties.

Quote: ahiromu

Oh, and f u about baseball it's not boring - it's amazing. At least when you bet the money line in baseball, you don't lose on ties.

Dude, baseball is our European soccer. In-game action is not very plentiful and it's only the "national pastime" because of everything that came before what it is now. Look at the TV ratings and see how much better football is doing.

Soccer is great - For one month every four years. I think Americans do embrace Soccer enough, for this one month. (Or in the US case, 2-3 weeks).

Baseball is probably a little more boring than Soccer.

The most "exciting" sports are:

1. Hockey - Constant action and hitting on a small "field"
2. Boxing - 3 minutes of hitting, only 1 minute break between rounds
3. American Football - Each play is important and can change the game.
4. Horse Racing - Quick, exciting 2 minute races, only problem is the time in between

I see a need to balance this thread a little. I'm a full-time fan of soccer. I won't get into the argument about whether it (or any other sport for that matter) is boring because that depends on what you are looking for. I agree that some soccer fans seem to take things too far -- more so than fans of other sports. Having your friends / co-workers push it on you like that is just plain rude.

A second vote for hockey.

It's a fast, hard-hitting sport requiring eye-hand coordination, strength, guts, and heart, played by people with whom I can relate to physically, however remotely.

Football and basketball are played by physical freaks -- I don't know any 7-footers, much less a 6'7", 300 pound lineman. And can you really say that lineman plays football? How many times in his career does an offensive tackle touch the ball?

Baseball is played by normal-sized humans (though some on the pudgy side), but they are put out commission by a sprained finger.

Your average soccer player collapses to the pitch in agony after a hard tackle, then after a brief rest gets up and runs around again.

I'll stop beating up on soccer (it does quite well on its own already), and I won't get started on baseball. But, come on, hockey? Hockey's just soccer on ice with fist-fights. Besides I'm not convinced any of the games broadcast on TV actually employ a puck. I've never seen one during a game. For all I know it's a bunch of guys on the rink chasing nothing at all ;)

Four years ago I was smart enough to take my vacation during the first stage of the World Cup. Thinking back on it, I should have done the same this year. Anyway, at that time there was an enterprising man running the service and supply department, who managed a pool for the entire corporate offices (which were much smaller then, come to think of it). I did enter the second round pool and I won. My method was exceedingly simple. I picked a random number from 1 to 3 for each team (I used excel's random function for this).

As you can guess, no one believed me when I said that I 1) care nothing for soccer, 2) chose the scores at random (or at least without using any judgment), 3) was not even remotely interested in seeing any games, and 4) did not see any of the games I bet on.

But the second round is only a handful of games, the buy-in was smaller because more people played the pool, and really enjoyed the expression of disbelief and outrage from soccer fans who did believe I despise soccer.

There was a near-repeat of the earlier breakfast incident. Mexico plays today against Uruguay, and again the department set up a breakfast next door. Not so early this time, but before my regular time. When I said I wasn't going, no one atually said anything, but the look of incredulity on their faces was amazing. I just don't get it.

Quote: Nareed

There was a near-repeat of the earlier breakfast incident. Mexico plays today against Uruguay, and again the department set up a breakfast next door. Not so early this time, but before my regular time. When I said I wasn't going, no one atually said anything, but the look of incredulity on their faces was amazing. I just don't get it.

I can't imagine what a workplace breakfast would be like. I have a hard enough time with the idea of happy hour. Frankly, while I may want to go drink after work, it is usually because of my coworkers. Drinking with my coworkers defeats the point...

Also, we have the game on in the office. I have wagered a $5 lunch on your boys. You're right, it's no fun watching a game that I've wagered on.

Quote: rdw4potus

I can't imagine what a workplace breakfast would be like. I have a hard enough time with the idea of happy hour. Frankly, while I may want to go drink after work, it is usually because of my coworkers. Drinking with my coworkers defeats the point...

Well, since the company pays for lunch (a perk enjoyed by our department; explanations on request), we usually have lunch together. We also often work late and about as often have supper together. Breakfast would just be more of the same.

Quote:

Also, we have the game on in the office. I have wagered a $5 lunch on your boys. You're right, it's no fun watching a game that I've wagered on.

You expected soccer to be fun?

Seriously, when I bet anything substantial on a Football game I want to watch, I agonize over beating the spread, reaching the points or other things, and I don't enjoy the game. Therefore I only bet on games I care nothing about.

For Superbowl LXIII I did bet my brother in law a dinner if the Steelers lost, but I'd have agonized over the game anyway, unless Pittsburgh had buried the cards by the half, which wasn't about to happen since the Cards were coached by a former Steeler.

I also often bet symbolically with one of the coworkers on Steelers and Cowoys games (poor man is a Cowboys fan, I pity him). But all we bet is stuff like a bottle of coke, or an ice cream bar. I'd never bet real money on the Steelers.

Quote: Nareed

...we usually have lunch together. We also often work late and about as often have supper together.

Ewww. Ick!

Does the phrase "You need to get a life" mean anything to you?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Ewww. Ick!

Does the phrase "You need to get a life" mean anything to you?

I agree. A hobby, maybe. Soccer? Or gambling, perhaps...

Hey, how about them refs! They're almost bad enough to work in NBA.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Ewww. Ick!

}

More than you know ;)

Quote:

Does the phrase "You need to get a life" mean anything to you?

Yes. It's obvious you're not now, nor ahve you ever been, a Trekkie.

Seriously, if I work late often, then the company damn well should pay for supper. And if I don't pay for lunch on weekdays, I have that much more money for other things like trips to Vegas and sci-fi books.

Quote: dm

Hey, how about them refs! They're almost bad enough to work in NBA.

Heh yeah there have been some not so good decisions. Flopping is the worst part. We (I referee NCAA soccer and have done a handful of US semi-pro games) refs try to catch diving, but it's hard becuase you sure don't want to be wrong on that.

Several years ago MLS was allowed to experiment with 2 referees on the field to go along with the 2 Asst. Referees. It didn't go over so well because in order for that to work you really need to know your partner well.

Quote: dm

Hey, how about them refs! They're almost bad enough to work in NBA.

That's the least of it. I can think of lots of things that would transform socer into a game half-wroth watching on days when there's nothing better to do or paint to dry.

A good beginning would be to stop requiring that referees fail an eye test in order to get hired.

one of the few sports i honestly enjoy watching is football.

every other sport i tend to lose interest fairly quickly until the last few minutes of the game.

i always kind of viewed football as mock warfare.

you line up your soldiers facing eachother and try to break through eachothers line.

Quote: rudeboyoi

i always kind of viewed football as mock warfare.

you line up your soldiers facing eachother and try to break through eachothers line.

Yes! For years I've been saying Football is ritualized dwarfare, largely minus casualties (Football injuries are among the worse in any sport, save boxing).

You also get to invade the enemy's territory and capture his end zone, symbolically.

Boxing is a more barbaric version of a duel. No one dies, suually, but they come close to. Hell, you win by knocking the other guy unconscious, symbolycally killing him.

I came up with this bet:

I pick Brazil to win the WC, whoever takes the bet picks all other 15 teams who made it to the second round and gives me 3 to 1 odds. Meaning I pay 50 pesos (as an example) if I lose, but get paid 150 pesos if I win.

No one wants to take it.

I figure Brazil will win because it's the only team thus far to win a WC outside its continent (once in Europe and once in Asia). All other winners won in their own continent (Germany, Italy, England and France have only won in Europe; Uruguay and Argentina have only won in the Americas).

It's a stupid reason, I reckon, but it's a stupid sport. I'm even.

Besides, no one in the office will take the bet.

Quote: Nareed

I came up with this bet:

I pick Brazil to win the WC, whoever takes the bet picks all other 15 teams who made it to the second round and gives me 3 to 1 odds. Meaning I pay 50 pesos (as an example) if I lose, but get paid 150 pesos if I win.

No one wants to take it.

Brazil to win the WC pays 9:2 from the sports books. You're offering your co-workers a bargain.

Quote: PapaChubby

Brazil to win the WC pays 9:2 from the sports books. You're offering your co-workers a bargain.

Actually I figure only four teams can win: Brazil, Argentina, Germany and England, ergo the 3:1.

The real reason none of them will take it is I'm asking them to be the bank, or the house. If I offered them a reverse bet, I'm sure they'd take it. And that's the reason I'm not offering it.

I think I'll have to settle for entering their second round pool and maybe winning. THough they'll be pissed if I do well.

I'm thinking a repeat of last cup's method: assign a random whole number between zero and three to each team, tweak for likely ties. Or I could see what the sportbooks pay and bet on what the house sees as most advantageous.

Well, someone took my Brazil vs the rest bet :) We settled on 50 vs 150 pesos (roughly US $4 to $12 rounding up a bit). Curiously the guy who took it does gamble in Vegas from time to time.

I'm thinking of another bet, one guranteed not to be taken. Mexico to win the WC, 1,000 to 1. Here I take the 15 other teams, the mark (let's be honest here) takes Mexico. If Mexico wins, I'll pay 1,000 to his one, minimum bet ten pesos.

Of course I can't cover such a bet, but you'd need all other 15 teams to drop dead in order for mexico to win the WC. Which my coworkers know, so they won't take it. Actually I'd offer 1,000,000 to one just as easily, but then it sounds ridiculous. Perhaps I ought to merely offer 100 to 1.

I plan to spring it on them in the unlikely case Maxico beats Argentina next Sunday.

I got someone else to take Mexico to (ha ha ha) win the (ha ha ha) World Cup for 50 pesos, 100 to 1. Before he agreed to it, I said "You realize I'm stealing your money?" But he agreed anyway.

He also said he'd take me up on the Brazil bet if Mexico loses to Argentina.