MrV
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:13:29 AM permalink
NASCAR's bad boy, Tony Stewart, whose explosive temper is well known, really stepped in it yesterday.

While racing at a small track in NY, he apparently caused another driver, Kevin Ward, to spin out and crash.

Believing that Stewart spun him out on purpose, Ward got out of his car and approached Stewart's oncoming car, shaking his fist and demanding Stewart stop.

In response, Stewart ran him over and killed him.

No doubt Stewart will claim he didn't see him, but I and many others will always have our doubts; Stewart is a rabid dog with a hair-trigger temper who simply has to get the hell out of the game.

Eye witness report: "I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."

source

R.I.P. Kevin Ward.

FOR SHAME, Tony!
"What, me worry?"
beachbumbabs
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:20:12 AM permalink
The facts are what they are, but I disagree somewhat with what you've said here, because they don't yet know what happened. Ward ran at the car, and the only known video (below: NSFW) has it from the side, where you can't see how it happened. The rear tires are wider than the front, like duallies. Stewart did NOT turn at the guy, appeared to be trying to get past him before he could reach the car. The police are NOT calling this manslaughter or vehicular homicide; they're proceeding as an accident.



EDIT: I don't know what all those captions are popping up on top of this. It was just raw video when I posted it.
If you go to youtube, and paste the address i1VZ9qF4Y3I in there, it will give you a format where you can kill the captions and see the video.
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MidwestAP
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:33:08 AM permalink
Condolences are in order for Kevin Ward's family and friends.

He didn't exactly 'run over' Ward, his car hit him with the right rear side. The eyewitness you reference is a friend of Ward's, not exactly an unbiased observer. If Stewart intentionally tried to hit him then then he should get his just punishment, but I think it's little early to be drawing conclusions.
MrV
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:33:57 AM permalink
There will always be "reasonable doubt."

NASCAR fans being what they are, they could just nickname Tony "Killer" or "Oh,really?" and move on.

But I doubt it will be that simple.
"What, me worry?"
rxwine
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:34:22 AM permalink
I was reading comments where people said plenty of drivers get out on the race track in the same manner, like you can't fault the guy who is running around a race track.

Maybe plenty do, but it doesn't make it a good idea or remove much of the responsibility on that end if they end up run over.
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coilman
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:48:11 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

NASCAR's bad boy, Tony Stewart, whose explosive temper is well known, really stepped in it yesterday.

While racing at a small track in NY, he apparently caused another driver, Kevin Ward, to spin out and crash.

Believing that Stewart spun him out on purpose, Ward got out of his car and approached Stewart's oncoming car, shaking his fist and demanding Stewart stop.

In response, Stewart ran him over and killed him.

No doubt Stewart will claim he didn't see him, but I and many others will always have our doubts; Stewart is a rabid dog with a hair-trigger temper who simply has to get the hell out of the game.

Eye witness report: "I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."

source

R.I.P. Kevin Ward.

FOR SHAME, Tony!



you should have put this part of the story up too

The driver of the car that spun, exited the race car and walked down the track onto the racing surface," the sheriff's news release states. "Two racecars traveling in tandem approached as the driver continued down the track, gesturing to the two approaching cars.

"The first car swerved to avoid the driver out on the track. The second car, operated by Tony Stewart, struck the driver."


_______________________________________________________________



Anybody that think Tony was trying to scare the kid and it went too far is as stupid as the kid was running down onto the dirt track with cars stlll running at 40-50 mph around it in a black suit ,,,,dirt track,,,,with poor lighting and his black car behind him
GWAE
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August 10th, 2014 at 11:57:40 AM permalink
What good comes out of getting out of the car.
I will be interested what face has to say about this.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
beachbumbabs
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August 10th, 2014 at 12:20:46 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

What good comes out of getting out of the car.
I will be interested what face has to say about this.



As rx says, this is increasingly common theater at NASCAR tracks, and has been for over a decade. I've only been to two races in person, and it happened there (Bristol more than 10 years ago) when 3 of them got tangled up. I would guess they have 3-5 of these a year at the top level competition, and who knows how often at lesser tracks. I have to figure Ward was imitating what he saw growing up.

This will change racing, top down, where if a driver gets out of his car and tries to approach someone, he will get fined.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxelWolf
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August 10th, 2014 at 12:35:52 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I have to figure Ward was imitating what he saw growing up.

This will change racing, top down, where if a driver gets out of his car and tries to approach someone, he will get fined.

Fined, that's not the case already? If not, then its obvious they encourage this type of behavior to make it more exciting . Not only should they be fined but also banned its not only their life they are putting in danger.
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onenickelmiracle
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August 10th, 2014 at 1:02:19 PM permalink
I didn't even think something like this would happen. Horrible way to die, but stupid standing on the track in the first place. I have no opinion on whether he was hit intentionally yet because I haven't seen the video.
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Boz
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August 10th, 2014 at 1:09:33 PM permalink
Sad all around, but it will hard to press charges on Tony. However I see a huge lawsuit from the family against Stewart that either will be settled out of court or result in monies being awarded to the family as these are easier to prove than a court case.
98Clubs
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August 10th, 2014 at 1:11:40 PM permalink
Also its just one more reason not to race a car with the # 13 on it.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Daddydoc
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August 10th, 2014 at 1:25:12 PM permalink
I looked at the video a couple times, and I can't see anything that looks like intent. Granted, it's not the best angle, and I am not a big racing aficionado.
If government is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.
FleaStiff
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August 10th, 2014 at 1:49:07 PM permalink
I've no idea.

It may depend on what the tabloids do with it whether it goes to manslaughter or what.

I know this scripted wrestling leads to mistakes and sometimes lawsuits. Auto Racing is far less scripted but if a "show" is expected, then engaging in showmanship may indeed be what happened.

I know that certain race car drivers have been told go learn how to drive after a race, but that is usually by a loser rather than a Race Committee. I also know that standards may vary and be very "flexible", particularly if a track is losing money.

Someone who knows how wide his rear tires are may have done something very skillfully. At certain speeds race cars can indeed be steered with the accelerator.

Walking down the track seems inherently unsafe and gesturing to cars to get out of the way or gesturing to drivers to get out and fight seems more suited to a hotheaded "wrestler persona" than a professional race car driver. Dirt tracks are different than clean ones. Suddenly materializing out of the fog/dirt/lights/haze can be difficult. Hormone levels can be higher than the brake temperatures. One problem is camera angles and interpretations.

I remember decades ago having read a short story entitled "Driving Lesson". Customer stops at rural roadside diner, young good looking waitress, three young rowdy kids getting increasing bold with her, Cook with meat cleaver yells "don't fool around with the customers, Connie" but its plain the Cook can't take on all three of them. Customer eats his dinner but as the difficulty escalates he arranges with waitress to go to the ladies room, escape out the back window and get into his car. As the customer is barrelling down the highway a spot light finds his mirror and the rowdy kids are on his tail. After some leadfooting it for awhile the kids try to run him off the curvy highway and he learns a bit about their driving skills then as they approach Deadman's Curve, the customer makes his move and suddenly the local hooligans are on the wrong side of a squeeze and are easily flipped over the guard rail and down the steep cliff. Customer ditches the waitress at the bus depot and then drives to the police station to report the accident he witnessed about a speeding car hitting a guard rail. Cop starts talking about not much to be done now and starts asking a few questions, but Customer reaches out to cops newspaper and turns a few pages than stands there. Cop looks at newspaper's photo of famous race car driver and says "Sorry, I didn't recognize you without your helmet on". Cop and Driver jaw bone it for awhile and soon Driver says Yeah, that would be fine with me, you arrange a time and I'll come up and give the local kids a driving lesson.

A Vegas showgirl who loses her counts in a dance number, a pro-wrestler who forgets which sequence is to be performed, ... these things happen. The dancer may get fired, the wrestler may get sued, ... but the race car driver will likely get killed. Oh I'm sure that track will be sell out performances the next week but that is not what the sport is supposed to be about.
beachbumbabs
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August 10th, 2014 at 2:00:47 PM permalink
They're saying that some angles of the video show he was caught first by the top spoiler, not the tires, and then knocked underneath the car.
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FleaStiff
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August 10th, 2014 at 2:06:30 PM permalink
I can understand getting out of the car, particularly if you start smelling gasoline, but if you get out walk to the outside of the track.

Recall perhaps the Gypsy Moths where the performer's manager instructs the ambulance crew to turn on every single solitary light they have and cruise slowly by the stand growling the siren. It is part showmanship, but its supposed to be with safety.

When famous Vaudeville actor grabbed woman's pony tail and dragged her across the stage, the audience reacts but the actress knows to grab his wrist so he is really pulling her by her arm not her pony tail.
MrV
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August 10th, 2014 at 2:09:58 PM permalink
It could be coincidence, but to me anyway the damning thing is that Ward was wrecked because of Stewart; Stewart presumably knew his aggressive driving promoted the wreck, and when Ward quickly got out of his car to approach Stewart in order to engage him in a bout of manly fisticuffs, Stewart ran him down.

I guess that's one way to settle an argument.
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AxiomOfChoice
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August 10th, 2014 at 2:19:07 PM permalink
IMO these guys are nuts.

I do a lot of track driving. The first thing that they tell you on your first day is that, unless your car is on fire, you don't get out. That's all there is to it.

Something like this was bound to happen eventually.
98Clubs
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August 10th, 2014 at 5:45:39 PM permalink
My dad stopped watching NASCAR because of these antics years ago, and he went back to Daytona on the Beach racing in the 50's.
I do feel very sad for Ward's family, and a young life cut short waaaaaaayyy to short. If my dad were still alive today, he would be at least disgusted, prob PO'ed. He passed on earlier this year. Note to CATV barrons: stop the insanity, vote NO MORE with your LACK of mega-money
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
strictlyAP
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August 10th, 2014 at 5:47:43 PM permalink
i feel awful for him - but to be honest the risk of walking on the track is defintely -ev


the chance of getting hit clearly must be more then 50 percent
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
aceofspades
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August 10th, 2014 at 5:57:54 PM permalink
Excellent article on New York State's Wrongful Death Lawsuits
Buzzard
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August 10th, 2014 at 6:25:43 PM permalink
Can anyone else here the siren ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
98Clubs
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August 10th, 2014 at 6:34:28 PM permalink
Interesting in that
1.) The Plaintiff must have full power to authorize settlement: a petitioner or executor(trix) may not have such authority.
2.) Since the Decedent cannot offer testimony, the Plaintiff has a rather large gray area in which to operate, otherwise.
3.) No claim of "Pain and Suffering" for the family.
4.) Estate claim(s) only for financial damages, P&S, etc.

Of course, Taxes upon the Estate are usually quite high after the mininum (5.2million IIRC)
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
RaleighCraps
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August 12th, 2014 at 7:45:50 PM permalink
This is a scenario that gets repeated many many times throughout the year.

Local track gets a hot shot star in for the night, whether it is a Sprint Cup star, or a regional star, etc. Local boys want to show the star that they have the right stuff too, and they should be where the star is.
I saw this first hand for 15 years on both a 1/2 mile paved speedway, and a 1/4 mile dirt track.

Most of the time, the star comes in, does some photos, races, and gets out. But many times, there is hard racing, and more often than not, hard feelings, usually on the part of the local boys. To tell the truth, I'm not sure why the stars even do these shows, since they take a lot of abuse on the track. Tony just loves to race. Anything, anywhere, anytime. Same as the Busch boys and countless other NASCAR drivers.
So, it is not uncommon for the star to have a run in with the local driver(s). Happens ALL the time. And, if I'm not mistaken, Tony may have run this same track last year, so there may have been some unrest before the racing even began.

The only eye witness account I have read was a friend of Ward, so not exactly unbiased.

IMO, from the video, it appeared that Tony drifted high and took away track from Ward. Ward could have backed out, but instead tried to stay on the outside and ran out of track. However, what I can't determine from the video, was Tony deliberate in taking away the outside, or did he just overdrive it into the corner and get high. And, I have not seen any video of any other racing that night, which is important. Perhaps Tony was paying back a previous pass that was also too aggressive. Knowing if this was intentional or not is important to understanding what the possible state of mind was for the next part of the tragic result.

In any event, Ward wrecked, and it appears that he felt that Tony did it deliberately, and decided to confront him on the track. It is a real shame what followed, BUT, there is NO WAY anyone can assess exactly what happened from that video. I can concoct a half dozen scenarios as to how it played out, and attempt to guess what Tony was doing, but it would all be nothing more than conjecture. Pretending to know Tony's intent is a fool's errand in this situation, and frankly, completely irresponsible.

I feel really bad for Ward's family. No family should have to go through this. Death is a part of racing. Always has been, and always will be. But senseless accidents are not expected, and that makes it truly tragic.
However, I am hopeful that this will finally spark some action so that drivers will no longer be allowed to roam the track after an accident. Get out of your car, and into the track conveyance, or face immediate suspension for xx weeks. If you still want a spectacle, the drivers will go at it in the pits AFTER the race, where 2,000 pound rockets aren't involved.

Unless they can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that this was intentional, no charges should be filed. And, any personal lawsuits should be thrown out before they even get filed. Every driver who signs the NASCAR license knows there is a chance they will die on the track, and most likely, it will not even be their own fault.
I will leave the rest unsaid. RIP
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RaleighCraps
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August 13th, 2014 at 9:19:02 AM permalink
Just found this blurb on FOX news. Wonder why it took this long for another eye witness account to make the news? Could it be it reduces, if not removes, any sensationalism?

"But another driver in the race, Cory Sparks, also a friend of Ward who said he was a few cars back when Ward was killed, didn't blame Stewart. He thought Stewart was trying to steer away from Ward, not buzz him.

"The timing was unsafe," Sparks told AP of Ward's decision to get out of the car. "When your adrenaline is going and you're taken out of a race, your emotions flare.""
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Tanko
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August 13th, 2014 at 11:50:40 AM permalink
That was intentional.

The cars were under a caution flag and quietly holding position on the track.

Steward gunned that engine just as he reached Ward.

He had no reason to do that.

He knew what the rear of his car would do.

He knew what he was doing.



Let a Grand Jury see this video:


Face
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August 13th, 2014 at 12:19:13 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

What good comes out of getting out of the car.
I will be interested what face has to say about this.



I already said my very long piece on DT, but I'll toss a bit in here, too.

Responses like MrV's are sensationalism at its finest. I don't mean to insult MrV, but I've just seen way, waaaay too many posts just like his, many from guys who don't have a clue (not implying that to MrV) who just spout off without thinking. Do you know how many people are frothing at the mouth, who've instantly become "dirt track experts", and would hang Stewart right now, if given the chance?

How many of them have raced? How many have even sat in a car? How many truly understand all that goes on behind the helmet? I can't say for sure, I don't know them. But the evidence points to a bunch of internet cowboys who don't have a clue, and it really is a shame.

If you follow my racing thread on DT, you'll know I race a street car. A Honda CRX, to be exact. And the moment I began racing, my first comments in all my thread reports focused heavily on "I can't see a damn thing". Go ahead and read it, it's all right there, unedited. Comment after comment of "I can't see". I can't see, yet look at the view from inside my car...



It's wide open, isn't it? But it's different than a street car. I'm locked into my seat, I can't turn. The helmet cuts off peripheral. The roof hoop blocks my head from turning. In this very race at 12:55, I almost smashed a stopped, disabled car at 70mph, a car that was sitting dead in front of me in broad daylight. I just missed it, all because I couldn't see.

Now, let's take a look from inside one of these Sprint cars...



Are you kidding me? The A bars, the front wing, the roof wing, the side board... you can't see eff all from inside one. I've sat inside Late Models, Pro Mods, Camping World Trucks, Cup Lites, Legends, and every one of them is a bitch to see out of, even without the gear on and the straps done tight.

Now figure in that you're racing. Racing ain't thruway driving. Very, very little of my time is spent looking at what's in front of me. I'm looking to the side, making sure I run that car within a millimeter of the guy I'm fighting. I'm looking at the corner, making sure I nail that apex. I'm looking at the wall, searching for my brake marker. I'm looking in the mirror, to see if I've cleared a guy. It's no exaggeration at all to say that when I'm racing, I'm looking forward less than 50% of the time.

This was under caution, yes, but that makes little difference. Under caution, I'm getting awareness. I'm looking at the flag man to see what he's signaling, I'm looking at the line of cars in front to see who I've got to catch, I'm looking in the mirror behind me at who may catch me, I'm looking at the pace car to see which line I need to be in, and most importantly, I'm looking for the safety brigade to make sure I don't impede their progress or hit one of them. At no time, despite my lifelong history of attending races and my awareness of these angry exhibitions, am I looking for a driver running around on the track.

If you looked at 12:55 on my vid, you'll see me pass the #36. All the way until the point I wave, I'm looking dead in the mirror, waiting to see when I clear her. Once I clear her I wave and finally look forward, and the #83 is blocking the stopped car from my view. At that point the flag man gets my attention, waving the yellow, now I'm looking at him. The #51 is stopped dead in front of me, right under the flag man I'm looking at, yet I'm still not seeing her. It wasn't until the last minute I noticed and barely swerved to miss her. It's the exact same scenario, only worse. Tony was bolted in way tighter than me, has on way more gear, and has only that tiny slot to look through. The car in front blocked his view, just as the #83 blocked my view. He's in the dead of night, in a dimly lit corner, and comes upon a dude wearing all black.

Had I been Tony, I wouldn't have caught him with the tire. I'd likely have ran him dead over.
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MidwestAP
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August 13th, 2014 at 12:22:15 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

That was intentional.

The cars were under a caution flag and quietly holding position on the track.

Steward gunned that engine just as he reached Ward.

He had no reason to do that.

He knew what the rear of his car would do.

He knew what he was doing.



Let a Grand Jury see this video:




That's the same video that has been out for several days. I don't see or hear what you do.

I see an enraged young man leaving the safety of his vehicle to confront a known racing name. He starts down the track toward the infield with a number of cars still speeding by at a yet to be controlled pace. As Stewart (not Steward) comes around he moves even closer into traffic, nearly getting struck by the car in front of Stewart.

I can't tell if Stewart gunned his engine or not, and from this video I don't know how you can either. His car doesn't come into the frame until the last split second and the sound is inclusive of all the rest of the cars on the track.

This video by itself, neither proves or disproves anyone's theory.
AxiomOfChoice
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August 13th, 2014 at 12:25:49 PM permalink
Face: Your video is private

(Mod note: All fixed, thanks)
Face
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August 13th, 2014 at 12:34:36 PM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP


This video by itself, neither proves or disproves anyone's theory.



Exactly. Yet everyone's already ready to sentence.

Watching that video, I can't even find evidence to the claim that "Tony put him in the wall". These are high horsepower, ultra light, open wheeled vehicles without nerf bars. If there was any contact whatsoever, the evidence would be obvious by a severe change in the attitudes of the vehicles that contacted. If you watch the accident, Stewart drifts high and pinches Ward. Ward, of his own accord, drifts high to avoid Stewart and gets in the gunk, causing him to lose the groove and strike the wall. So at this point, it is completely conceivable, I would even say probable, that not only does Stewart not know he's targeted, but that he doesn't even know there's an issue involving himself.
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Tanko
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August 13th, 2014 at 12:45:27 PM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP



I can't tell if Stewart gunned his engine or not, and from this video I don't know how you can either.



Listen at :31

"I seen Kevin clear as day. Nobody else ran into him, either."
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Face
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August 13th, 2014 at 1:13:00 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko


Steward gunned that engine just as he reached Ward.

He had no reason to do that.

He knew what the rear of his car would do.

He knew what he was doing.



I'll field this one, too.

First, calm as I normally come across, I have a mean streak. In my short career, I have certainly used the long, thin pedal to vent frustration. I've heard others do the same in my class. I've seen thousands, literally thousands, of others do it, too, in my 30 years of race fandom. 100% of the time, bar none, bar not one single time, a frustration stomp is to the rev limiter. No one "burps the throttle" to express displeasure. You'll never hear a "ruhp" given in anger. If Stewart or anyone else was pissed, whether just making noise or trying to spray a target with clay, that engine would've been "WAAAAAAAPAPAPAPAH!" This is as fact as a fact can be. It is an ultimate truth.

Now, this is more supposition on my part, but... these are Sprint cars. It is a common meme in dirt circles that the steering wheel is a pointless accessory, mostly just giving the driver something to hold onto. You steer with the throttle. Short wheelbase car, giant tires, stagger, that's the only way you get around. You hit the gas.

Again, what makes more sense?

A) Stewart somehow is aware he made Ward crash, even though he never contacted him. He is so pissed off that this kid crashed in this meaningless race, that he must show the kid who's boss. When the kid dares challenge him, Stewart intentionally hits him, again, because Smoke don't take no guff. The kid dies as a result.

Or..

B) Stewart has no idea there's an issue. He's tooling along under yellow. Suddenly, a kid in all black materializes out of the night right in front of him. Instinctually, he blips the throttle to emergency turn, accidentally clipping the kid, who later dies.

Look at ALL the facts, and tell me again that Stewart's a murderer.
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Doc
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August 13th, 2014 at 1:22:38 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Let a Grand Jury see this video


Looks to me like a clear case of suicide by stupidity.
Face
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August 13th, 2014 at 1:34:27 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Looks to me like a clear case of suicide by stupidity.



Indeed. And the facts support it.

If you talk with the actual racers, many who do this very thing, the support for "it was an accident" is overwhelming. Very, very few racers are making comments toward an intentional act. In fact, the only racers I've seen who have been critical have some sort of bias, mostly those of Ward's family or close affiliations with them.

But I guess we're almost fully to the land of "guilty until proven innocent". If this truly is an accident, imagine what people are going through. Imagine you were the target, that you accidentally hit someone and it was all their fault. Not only do you have to live with one of your "brothers" dying, not only do you have to live with the fact that you killed him, but you receive death threats, you're put on blast throughout the media, your profession is at risk, the team you own is under attack, your entire life is turned upside down, emotionally and professionally, through no fault of your own. And there's tens if not hundreds of thousands of people, all out with pitchforks, there to make sure you are completely destroyed. All because of some rash decision for which you had no control, for something that happened while you were having fun pursuing your passion.

It's a damned shame.
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rxwine
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August 13th, 2014 at 3:06:01 PM permalink
If this goes to court, I imagine the lawyers for Ward will look for tapes of Stewart gunning his engine while passing near other drivers that he was involved in an altercation with.

That's where Stewart's reputation could really hurt him. And there's plenty of recorded stuff to look at. So much in fact, there's liable to be lots of questionable actions, where it looks bad.

Which makes me think -- settlement at some point. Not proof. Just settlement without going to jury.

Edit -- I actually think both sides will end up wanting a settlement for different reasons.. Neither completely sure of how slam dunk their case will be if judged.
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onenickelmiracle
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August 13th, 2014 at 4:30:23 PM permalink
There shouldn't even be a story beyond another Darwin's award. Don't play in the street.

If you don't walk under a 2 ton object, it doesn't matter if it falls. If a group of people all talk themselves into believing it's safe to stand under heavy objects, they're a cult not using their brains.

The guy could have waited until the race was over to fight him, but didn't want to without the heat of the moment excuse, then his last words should have been "I deserve this".
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Tanko
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August 13th, 2014 at 5:21:38 PM permalink
Quote: Face



Again, what makes more sense?

Look at ALL the facts, and tell me again that Stewart's a murderer.



Neither choice makes sense.

When did I call Stewart a murderer?

I believe he didn't like being challenged and he tried to clip or scare Ward by throttling the engine and turning his rear toward him.

I do not believe he intended to kill him.

However, when someone's reckless actions cause a person to die, that is Manslaughter in NYS.


“What happens when you hit that throttle is the car is going to move to the right ... Stewart had to know that if he hit the throttle with a man standing on the dirt to his right, there was a good chance the car would hit him, which means there’s a good chance he could be killed,

“To me, that’s reckless homicide. That’s manslaughter in the second degree.”

-Fox Sports Legal analyst Rob Becker
RaleighCraps
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August 13th, 2014 at 5:51:00 PM permalink
But that would be the case on the public roadway. When you are driving your car on the road, and you intentionally run into another car, you will get in trouble, and probably charged with some sort of assault.
But on the race track, it happens all the time, and there are no charges filed.

Saying that Tony was reckless, caused a person to die, and should get a manslaughter charge is ridiculous. It is trying to use the laws of normal day life, and not take into account this happened in a venue where intentional accidents occur all the time. And it also does not address the fact that the deceased was doing something he was not supposed to be doing. He was running on the track during active racing. That is not allowed, because he could get hit by one of the race cars.

I sure hope the DA and LE in NYS have more common sense than many of the people spouting off on this accident.
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beachbumbabs
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August 13th, 2014 at 6:32:51 PM permalink
If you look at that video Face provided of what it's like to sit in one of those cars, I can't believe Stewart even SAW the guy under the lighting conditions before the wing clipped him; look at how much of the right field of view is cut off, as well as the low horizon. They're barely seeing 10 feet in front of the car, and the camera lens may well be less constricted than the vision of a guy in a helmet AND a HANS device. I'll bet the first Stewart knew he'd hit anything was a quick flash on the front right, the wing bump, and then the wheels going up onto the body, all in less than a second.

I also think that any jury, if it gets that far, should be strapped in at night, fully HANS'd and helmeted, on the track, and a dummy in a black fire suit stuck into the corner of their vision, (with them driving/moving if possible) before they're allowed to make a decision.
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AxelWolf
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August 13th, 2014 at 6:56:32 PM permalink
No one can prove intent he could just say he panicked and hit the gas to hard.
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kewlj
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August 13th, 2014 at 7:05:33 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Again, what makes more sense?

A) Stewart somehow is aware he made Ward crash, even though he never contacted him. He is so pissed off that this kid crashed in this meaningless race, that he must show the kid who's boss. When the kid dares challenge him, Stewart intentionally hits him, again, because Smoke don't take no guff. The kid dies as a result.

Or..

B) Stewart has no idea there's an issue. He's tooling along under yellow. Suddenly, a kid in all black materializes out of the night right in front of him. Instinctually, he blips the throttle to emergency turn, accidentally clipping the kid, who later dies.

Look at ALL the facts, and tell me again that Stewart's a murderer.



Preface: I am not a racing fan. I am most definitely one of those 'clueless' previously mentioned.

There is a choice C, Face. That being that Stewart, knew of the accident (hey they are under a caution flag), saw Ward on the track making gestures and all and said "who the F*ch does this kid think he is?" He then thought he would buzz him or scare him and it went horribly bad from there.

My gut tells me it was something along these lines. No evidence. I will admit Stewart's reputation probably enters into my gut feeling, but that's all it is....a gut feeling (or maybe indigestion). Now, that said, if I was on any kind of jury, looking at the evidence we now know.....unquestionably not guilty. The guilty party is the jackass that got out of his car and walked on a race car track in live action. He has to take responsibility for his own death.

I honesty hope it was truly an accident. Only Mr. Stewart knows for sure and he is not going to say.
rxwine
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August 13th, 2014 at 7:33:12 PM permalink
Consider the possibilities.

You're driving down the highway, and see someone standing in road. He is clearly not suppose to be there.

Can you run him over legally?
Can you drive close and try to scare him?
Can you try to avoid him?

If you see him, the only thing you're probably suppose to do (on a race track or a regular road) is the third one. Otherwise, you are probably judged wrong. (IMO)

The question is, (I think) is whether he saw him, and then what he did, if he did see him.
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AxiomOfChoice
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August 13th, 2014 at 7:45:26 PM permalink
After watching the video several times, I'd really like to know how people can piece together what happened from that. The car is not even in the frame until right before it hits him. You have no idea what the car did prior to hitting him because you can't see it.

It seems like throttle steering to try to get around him is a pretty bad idea because the car is going to go sideways and hit him anyway. But then again, steering is not going to work either. The car just can't swerve out of the way like you could on a sports car with tight steering on a grippy surface. (Note: I've never driven on a dirt track outside of Gran Turismo, but I think I understand the basic concepts here)
onenickelmiracle
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August 13th, 2014 at 8:24:50 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Consider the possibilities.

You're driving down the highway, and see someone standing in road. He is clearly not suppose to be there.

Can you run him over legally?
Yes if you don't see him. Yes if you don't appear to swerve to hit him.
Can you drive close and try to scare him?
Yes if nobody can prove it. Yes if you don't admit it.
Can you try to avoid him?

If deemed safe to do so.
If you see him, the only thing you're probably suppose to do (on a race track or a regular road) is the third one. Otherwise, you are probably judged wrong. (IMO)

The question is, (I think) is whether he saw him, and then what he did, if he did see him.

I think he would have to admit to it and really it's tough because people can do falsely admitting so out of sorrow. Really at high speeds and stress who can really remember what happened accurately enough. After a while, people get confused just trying to remember merging actual memories with attempts to recreate, to remember the memories.
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