Antiques and Griping About Cheapskates
true cheapskate, he was offering half of what people
wanted for their stuff.
Quote: EvenBobI met Woods 20 years ago at an antique show. A
true cheapskate, he was offering half of what people
wanted for their stuff.
Isn't that the nature of a bazaar?
Quote: aceofspadesIsn't that the nature of a bazaar?
Not to offer half what somebody wants, that's just
insulting. Many movie stars are notorious for being cheap,
though.
Quote: EvenBobNot to offer half what somebody wants, that's just
insulting. Many movie stars are notorious for being cheap,
though.
All the person selling the item has to do is (a) reject the offer or (b) counteroffer.
(Do you pay full price for everything Bob?)
Quote: aceofspadesAll the person selling the item has to do is (a) reject the offer or (b) counteroffer.
(Do you pay full price for everything Bob?)
Yes, that is the fun part of bargaining. Bargain. If you dont like the offer you receive, either reject or counter-offer. No need to call people names. Be civilized because we don't always get what we want.
If I feel a price is stupidly high, and I counter with something only moderately low, we're likely to end up with a moderately high price, or even more likely, I won't buy it at all. Countering with a stupidly low price is basically a nice way of saying, "I think the way you're pricing this is idiotic, so I'll return the favor, we both know our prices need to both move drastically for us to have any hope of making a deal, so let's not waste time."
I love negotiating, though, so I'm biased.
Quote: Mission146Yeah, if you feel that the price is absurdly high, then you start with an offer that is absurdly low and go from there. If the initial price is moderately high, you open with a moderately low price. In these situations, what constitutes fair, moderate or absurd is completely subjective, so someone might think they are negotiating reasonably in a situation where someone else might think they are being tight, but the general principle remains.
If I feel a price is stupidly high, and I counter with something only moderately low, we're likely to end up with a moderately high price, or even more likely, I won't buy it at all. Countering with a stupidly low price is basically a nice way of saying, "I think the way you're pricing this is idiotic, so I'll return the favor, we both know our prices need to both move drastically for us to have any hope of making a deal, so let's not waste time."
I love negotiating, though, so I'm biased.
Ding, ding and ding.....
Quote: aceofspadesAll the person selling the item has to do is (a) reject the offer or (b) counteroffer.
That's fine, but as an antique dealer for over 25
years, I can tell you first hand that if somebody
offers you half what you have on an item, it's
meant to be a slap in your face. Some dealers
will kick you out of their booth, or refuse to
sell it to you at any price. If I had $150 on
something, a reasonable offer is $125. $100
is borderline offensive, $75 is an insult. I've
seen dealers tell people who do that to go F
themselves, and rightly so.
The day Woods was there, word got around
about him quickly and many dealers were
not budging on their prices at all for him. We
don't like being treated like that, it's
disrespectful.
Quote: EvenBobThat's fine, but as an antique dealer for over 25
years, I can tell you first hand that if somebody
offers you half what you have on an item, it's
meant to be a slap in your face. Some dealers
will kick you out of their booth, or refuse to
sell it to you at any price. If I had $150 on
something, a reasonable offer is $125. $100
is borderline offensive, $75 is an insult. I've
seen dealers tell people who do that to go F
themselves, and rightly so.
The day Woods was there, word got around
about him quickly and many dealers were
not budging on their prices at all for him. We
don't like being treated like that, it's
disrespectful.
Was the "waaaaaaaaahmbulance on call that day"?
If I want to go into an open house and offer $1 for a house worth $1million then I have the right to do that. Mr. Woods was merely exercising his right to contract - to make an offer that can be summarily rejected. If nobody wanted to even hear his offer, then that is their right as well (although is collusion)
Quote: EvenBobThat's fine, but as an antique dealer for over 25
years, I can tell you first hand that if somebody
offers you half what you have on an item, it's
meant to be a slap in your face. Some dealers
will kick you out of their booth, or refuse to
sell it to you at any price. If I had $150 on
something, a reasonable offer is $125. $100
is borderline offensive, $75 is an insult. I've
seen dealers tell people who do that to go F
themselves, and rightly so.
The day Woods was there, word got around
about him quickly and many dealers were
not budging on their prices at all for him. We
don't like being treated like that, it's disrespectful.
So what Bob says is: Whatever the price is, please take about 20-25% off or dont bother. SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!
Next time I wont bother to bargain at all.
Quote: Mission146Yeah, if you feel that the price is absurdly high, then you start with an offer that is absurdly low and go from there..
You're talking about a flea market, I'm talking
about a high end antique show. Many dealers
at these shows won't bargain at all and are
offended if you even try. They often have
rare, hard to find items and they paid a lot
for them. At a flea market, who cares. The
dealer probably has it marked up 10 times
what he paid for it anyway. High end antique
shows are an entirely different animal.
This happened at what's called the Ann
Arbor Antiques Market. In the 80's it was still
a high end market, one of the highest in the
country. It was very hard to get in as a new
dealer, you had to be recommended by a
dealer who was in good standing with the
owner. She eventually died and the show is
a shadow of what it was.
http://annarborantiquesmarket.com/gallery.php
Quote: EvenBobYou're talking about a flea market, I'm talking
about a high end antique show. Many dealers
at these shows won't bargain at all and are
offended if you even try. They often have
rare, hard to find items and they paid a lot
for them. At a flea market, who cares. The
dealer probably has it marked up 10 times
what he paid for it anyway. High end antique
shows are an entirely different animal.
This happened at what's called the Ann
Arbor Antiques Market. In the 80's it was still
a high end market, one of the highest in the
country. It was very hard to get in as a new
dealer, you had to be recommended by a
dealer who was in good standing with the
owner. She eventually died and the show is
a shadow of what it was.
http://annarborantiquesmarket.com/gallery.php
Sorry, I withdrew my comment.
Quote: EvenBobYou're talking about a flea market, I'm talking
about a high end antique show. Many dealers
at these shows won't bargain at all and are
offended if you even try. They often have
rare, hard to find items and they paid a lot
for them. At a flea market, who cares. The
dealer probably has it marked up 10 times
what he paid for it anyway. High end antique
shows are an entirely different animal.
This happened at what's called the Ann
Arbor Antiques Market. In the 80's it was still
a high end market, one of the highest in the
country. It was very hard to get in as a new
dealer, you had to be recommended by a
dealer who was in good standing with the
owner. She eventually died and the show is
a shadow of what it was.
http://annarborantiquesmarket.com/gallery.php
Dealers get offended if AP's don't tip - should AP's now tip because someone is offended? Society is quickly becoming a place wherein each and every word or action offends someone else. I have clients all the time ask me for a discount (does it offend me...yes...do I give them the discount...no...end of story). They have the right to ask and I have the right to say no. Should they not like that answer, there are thousands of other attorneys they can retain.
Quote: aceofspades
If I want to go into an open house and offer $1 for a house worth $1million then I have the right to do that.
Of course. And we have a right to our opinion
of people who do that. I never said he couldn't
do it. The best buyers are the ones who know
the game and know how to play it well, without
being insulting in the process. Some people assume
antique dealers get their merch for almost nothing,
and nothing could be further from the truth.
Ace, when you tell someone your price for a divorce,
do you let people offer you half? Do you let them
haggle at all? Why not?
Quote: aceofspadesThey have the right to ask and I have the right to say no. Should they not like that answer, there are thousands of other attorneys they can retain.
Then why would you expect an antique dealer
not to be offended at being offered half? He's
not doing this as a hobby.
Quote: EvenBobThen why would you expect an antique dealer
not to be offended at being offered half? He's
not doing this as a hobby.
Offended it fine, but to gang together and not even accept future offers, thus barring someone from making an offer in the first place, seems bad for the consumer (hence why we abhor monopolies (yes bob, I know monopolies do exist in certain "public approved" areas)
Quote: EvenBobThat's fine, but as an antique dealer for over 25
years, I can tell you first hand that if somebody
offers you half what you have on an item, it's
meant to be a slap in your face. Some dealers
will kick you out of their booth, or refuse to
sell it to you at any price. If I had $150 on
something, a reasonable offer is $125. $100
is borderline offensive, $75 is an insult. I've
seen dealers tell people who do that to go F
themselves, and rightly so.
The day Woods was there, word got around
about him quickly and many dealers were
not budging on their prices at all for him. We
don't like being treated like that, it's
disrespectful.
Bob how old are you 180 years old? It seems as you have had every type of business for over 20 years, had an antique business, had a bar, had a taxi company, you know everything about banking so I am sure you ran a bank for 20 years. What else is there?
Im just saying. You seem to have had every business that has ever come up in discussion here
Quote: JW17Bob how old are you 180 years old? It seems as you have had every type of business for over 20 years, had an antique business, had a bar, had a taxi company, you know everything about banking so I am sure you ran a bank for 20 years. What else is there?
Im just saying. You seem to have had every business that has ever come up in discussion here
Are you calling Bob a LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: JW17Bob how old are you 180 years old? It seems as you have had every type of business for over 20 years, had an antique business, had a bar, had a taxi company
Since 1978, that's not a lot. Had the bar from
79-83, taxi from 83-87, antique dealer from
87-present. Sold on Ebay too, from 97-2005.
Ebay was by far the best in its first years,
really too good, I knew it wouldn't last and
it didn't. And I was 30 in 1979, had lots of
other jobs before then.
Antiques are very part time now. I look for
stuff in the summer for my wife, who still sets
up at two shows a year. She had an antique
mall for 15 years.
Quote: speedycrapSo I will keep a copy as record. Thanks.
Huh?
Quote: aceofspadesHuh?
Bob resume from 1979-now as a reference. Got it...
Quote: speedycrapBob resume from 1979-now as a reference. Got it...
Yes it should be printed on linen paper and sold to forum members as a way to commemorate Bob's greatness :-)
Quote: aceofspadesYes it should be printed on linen paper and sold to forum members as a way to commemorate Bob's greatness :-)
Note to self: use rusty pins on voodoo doll, and break them
off inside.
Quote: EvenBobNote to self: use rusty pins on voodoo doll, and break them
off inside.
Has the voodoo doll been actually ordered?
it this thread.
Quote: EvenBobYou're talking about a flea market, I'm talking
about a high end antique show. Many dealers
at these shows won't bargain at all and are
offended if you even try. They often have
rare, hard to find items and they paid a lot
for them. At a flea market, who cares. The
dealer probably has it marked up 10 times
what he paid for it anyway. High end antique
shows are an entirely different animal.
I don't care what the venue is, you never know what people will come down to on the price. I should imagine that even people selling at antique shows occasionally will, "Need the money," and when someone needs it, that's when you save it. The second car I ever bought I got directly from someone, KBB was $3,000, he had priced it at $2,500 and I got it for $1,700, but only after he went to Valvoline and got a fresh oil change for me.
If someone doesn't want to bargain with me, then they are not obligated to. In any case I have ever experienced, regardless of the venue, an individual will simply say, "I'm sorry, sir, the price is firm," or, "Not negotiable," or something along those lines.
We're not talking about a gallon of milk at the grocery store, here, especially with antiques even more than flea markets. We're talking about an item in which much of the value is subjective. $5,000 antique chair, one of a kind, whatever, it's a chair, so to me it might only be, "More than just a chair," to the tune of $3,500.
(It would NEVER be more than just a chair for any price greater than I would pay for just a chair, I should disclaim)
Quote: Mission146I don't care what the venue is, you never know what people will come down to on the price.
You can offer anything you like if looking like
a clueless dolt is your objective and insulting
the person selling it is your goal. Go for it.
Quote: EvenBobYou can offer anything you like if looking like
a clueless dolt is your objective and insulting
the person selling it is your goal. Go for it.
It sounds like you probably won't get a lower price out of people there, but if you don't ask, you will never get a lower price.
Quote: Mission146It sounds like you probably won't get a lower price out of people there, but if you don't ask, you will never get a lower price.
Do people offer you half your room rate at
your hotel? If they do, what do you think
of them? A hotel room price isn't set is
stone, it's worth what it's worth that day.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: Mission146It sounds like you probably won't get a lower price out of people there, but if you don't ask, you will never get a lower price.
Do people offer you half your room rate at
your hotel? If they do, what do you think
of them? A hotel room price isn't set is
stone, it's worth what it's worth that day.
I have been offered half of the rate that I have quoted people, on occasion. What I think is that I can probably sell them if I make them think they are getting something great out of the deal, so I'll reduce my original offer by 25% and tell them that I'll hook them up with a suite, though I can't go any lower on the price.
If I'm taking less than 75% of my originally quoted rate, then I have enough rooms available that a room is just a room at that point, and the fact that it's a suite as opposed to a regular room barely costs me anything. It takes a couple extra minutes to clean, so maybe $2.00 there, the room is bigger so the HVAC unit will have to have a bit more output and it has more lights because it is bigger, so a couple pennies on the electric bill. I'd say renting the suite as opposed to my smallest room is a $3.00 hit, total.
If they really expect to only pay half, I probably can't go low enough for them, unless it is pretty late at night. In situations in which I've had a few rooms really late at night, I've rented them for only half. If they are just people that want to feel as though they are getting a good value, dropping the price and giving them the suite more than satisfies them.
Quote: Mission146Quote: EvenBobQuote: Mission146It sounds like you probably won't get a lower price out of people there, but if you don't ask, you will never get a lower price.
Do people offer you half your room rate at
your hotel? If they do, what do you think
of them? A hotel room price isn't set is
stone, it's worth what it's worth that day.
I have been offered half of the rate that I have quoted people, on occasion. What I think is that I can probably sell them if I make them think they are getting something great out of the deal, so I'll reduce my original offer by 25% and tell them that I'll hook them up with a suite, though I can't go any lower on the price.
If I'm taking less than 75% of my originally quoted rate, then I have enough rooms available that a room is just a room at that point, and the fact that it's a suite as opposed to a regular room barely costs me anything. It takes a couple extra minutes to clean, so maybe $2.00 there, the room is bigger so the HVAC unit will have to have a bit more output and it has more lights because it is bigger, so a couple pennies on the electric bill. I'd say renting the suite as opposed to my smallest room is a $3.00 hit, total.
If they really expect to only pay half, I probably can't go low enough for them, unless it is pretty late at night. In situations in which I've had a few rooms really late at night, I've rented them for only half. If they are just people that want to feel as though they are getting a good value, dropping the price and giving them the suite more than satisfies them.
Because I bet you run the hotel as if it were your own. That is what makes you a good hotelier. You will do whatever it takes to satisfy the guest (within bounds of course) and at the same time make some revenue where there potentially was none.
This is the secret that the Vegas boys have forgotten a very long time ago. They don't think on their feet so to speak. If you have rooms to spare and you want to fill them up why don't you think outside the box to do so. All those beautiful bars standing empty because they want to charge $20 for a cocktail.......
Come on man......:)
Quote: Mission146
I have been offered half of the rate that I have quoted people, on occasion. What I think is that I can probably sell them if I make them think they are getting something great out of the deal, .
And how much do you have personally invested in that room.
Nothing, zero. I find the item (not easy), haul it home, clean it,
often repair or refinish it, look it up to determine value, haul
it to half a dozen shows, and you want to offer me half price?
Why don't you just call my mother names and make fun of the
way I talk, it will get the same response as offering me half.
have no idea what a big deal this is to sellers.
"There’s nothing more irritating to a seller than the cheapskate buyer who tries to become a repeat customer. Here’s how you know if you’re a cheapskate buyer — you ask for a better price every time you attempt to buy something. Yea, I know, some time ago a “know it all” convinced you that savvy shoppers always bargain — always offer a lower price or ask if you can do better on the price. This is really bad advice. It’s rude and brands you as an undesirable cheapskate.
Here’s a tip to keep in mind the next time you try getting a cheaper price — sellers know who you are and really don’t want to sell to you. I know this for a fact as I’ve both sold at a flea market and continue helping a friend sell once a month. Once we brand you as a cheapskate shopper, we NEVER, EVER give you a better price. We hold our ground at the original price. We don’t want you in the booth. Got it???/\...."
"With rare exception, the vast majority of flea market sellers are barely making much money on the stuff they sell. They have to spend money driving around to find the stuff, they have to pay for it, they have to take it home and clean it and research value, they have to price it, pack it, drive it to the flea market, rent a selling space, unpack it, and display it. And then the cheapskate buyer comes along and tries to buy it for less. It’s INSULTING and RUDE."
Quote: EvenBobI googled and this was the very first thing I saw. You
have no idea what a big deal this is to sellers.
"There’s nothing more irritating to a seller than the cheapskate buyer who tries to become a repeat customer. Here’s how you know if you’re a cheapskate buyer — you ask for a better price every time you attempt to buy something. Yea, I know, some time ago a “know it all” convinced you that savvy shoppers always bargain — always offer a lower price or ask if you can do better on the price. This is really bad advice. It’s rude and brands you as an undesirable cheapskate.
Here’s a tip to keep in mind the next time you try getting a cheaper price — sellers know who you are and really don’t want to sell to you. I know this for a fact as I’ve both sold at a flea market and continue helping a friend sell once a month. Once we brand you as a cheapskate shopper, we NEVER, EVER give you a better price. We hold our ground at the original price. We don’t want you in the booth. Got it???/\...."
"With rare exception, the vast majority of flea market sellers are barely making much money on the stuff they sell. They have to spend money driving around to find the stuff, they have to pay for it, they have to take it home and clean it and research value, they have to price it, pack it, drive it to the flea market, rent a selling space, unpack it, and display it. And then the cheapskate buyer comes along and tries to buy it for less. It’s INSULTING and RUDE."
I've been a vendor or "boothie".
So Bob I have a question. When you go out and find this stuff do you always give the seller what they are asking for it? The very same product you are going to turn around and sell at a profit?
Quote: petroglyphI've been a vendor or "boothie".
So Bob I have a question. When you go out and find this stuff do you always give the seller what they are asking for it?
Most everything I bought was at auction, that's all I did was
go to auctions. In fact, I used to write articles for an
auction newspaper in the late 80's. Even had a couple
in Antique Week, which is still in business. I also bought
from pickers, and those guys don't negotiate when then
they sell, only when they buy. Pickers are the lifeblood of
the antiques business. Try making a low offer to a picker
and you'll never see him again. You don't want that to
happen. I had one old guy that I was so tight with, he'd
leave stuff in my barn that I had never seen, but he knew
I'd want. And I had no idea what the price was yet. Those
guys are golden.
Quote: EvenBobMost everything I bought was at auction, that's all I did was
go to auctions. In fact, I used to write articles for an
auction newspaper in the late 80's. Even had a couple
in Antique Week, which is still in business. I also bought
from pickers, and those guys don't negotiate when then
they sell, only when they buy. Pickers are the lifeblood of
the antiques business. Try making a low offer to a picker
and you'll never see him again. You don't want that to
happen. I had one old guy that I was so tight with, he'd
leave stuff in my barn that I had never seen, but he knew
I'd want. And I had no idea what the price was yet. Those
guys are golden.
Yep, that's kinda what I thought.
I feel your pain on people not wanting to pay fair value. I know what it's like working your ass off and not getting anything out of it.
Just out of curiosity you ever think about maybe making a cash donation to WOV, for all the hours of enjoyment you've received for free?
Its to my understanding. BOB dose not enjoy anything other then the misery of others.Quote: petroglyphYep, that's kinda what I thought.
I feel you pain on people not wanting to pay fair value. I know what it's like working your ass off and not getting anything out of it.
Just out of curiosity you ever think about maybe making a cash donation to WOV, for all the hours of enjoyment you've received for free?
Quote: EvenBob
And how much do you have personally invested in that room.
Nothing, zero. I find the item (not easy), haul it home, clean it,
often repair or refinish it, look it up to determine value, haul
it to half a dozen shows, and you want to offer me half price?
Why don't you just call my mother names and make fun of the
way I talk, it will get the same response as offering me half.
Well, let's see...I have my contract, any potential for raises, and about 90% of my annual income invested in renting that room. Even with my experience, I can't walk into any other hotel in the area and make what I make now to start, so if I were to lose my job, I'd have to scramble to find a position with another hotel and take a pay cut of about 20%, re-locate, or get into a different industry.
Of course, I own my house and am paying mortgage, so re-location is a huge PITA because I'd either have to HOPE to find a renter, or wait for my house to sell. Of course, during the pendency of either of these two events, I still have to pay the mortgage and insurance.
In essence, then, failing to bring an acceptable revenue into the hotel would possibly cause me to be terminated from my position which would utterly turn my life upside down in one fashion or another. I do have the benefit of a solid work history, so I'm supervising telemarketing or working in a distribution center again with a single phone call, that's one advantage I have...but with either of those I'd still make less money than I do now. Particularly with the DC as we approach January because things slow down there until March or April, so hours aren't going to be very good.
But, no, I don't have anything personally invested in renting rooms.
Whats the date on that anyway?
Quote: Mission146
But, no, I don't have anything personally invested in renting rooms.
Exactly. They aren't your rooms. You don't own
them, clean them, haul them around in your van,
load and unload them, and have to replace them
when they're gone.
Quote: EvenBobExactly. They aren't your rooms. You don't own
them, clean them, haul them around in your van,
load and unload them, and have to replace them
when they're gone.
I've never cleaned a room? News to me.
Sold at Mile high Flea market for 3 years. Got top know a lot of the characters there. One or two ripoff artists, and name brand knockoff sellers who usually got busted. For the most part just guys and gals trying to hustle a living.
I bought a lot of my inventory at yard sales or storage rental units. ( what a joke storage wars is ). If I bought a couple things at a yard sale, I usually paid asking price. If they had 20-200 of something I would ask what they wanted for all of them. Paid the asking price 9 out of 10 times. The other times the person would count them, multiply the number by the individual price and ask for that.
I would just say No Thanks. That was that. Never haggled, just sure they would regret it later on.
I try and price things fairly, when some jerk would offer $5 for a $10 item, which might be a great bargain, I would holler, Josie you marked this wrong, and change the price to $20. Leaving him to wonder if he offer $10, what a bargain he would have had. If he offered $2, I was a gentleman and since ladies might be in the area, I would whisper F*** You !
