lojo
lojo
Joined: Jun 24, 2013
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September 20th, 2013 at 8:10:21 PM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

Neither does making fun of my spelling challenge.


Okay spellng lesson
FRANK
F (all words beginning with f)
How do you make that a spelling challenge?
You are a bigot unless you can explain this simple mystery, sir.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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September 20th, 2013 at 8:11:23 PM permalink
Quote: lojo

Well, nothing empirical to be sure. But if we look at how 'they vote', and where they get their information, and the way they spew party line politics instead of investigating issues, we can anecdotally surmise - a goodly majority are now faux newz shleep.

I don't keep my finger on the pulse, but I could almost guess what sort of business you are in (if employing less than 25 people) by the way you vote. We are all profiled with (how ya say plural matix?) online, but I can read a person and hunker down in the old fashioned ways.

At the risk of assuming you meant red or blue politics in regards to informed (I did) I will admit it was a goad.

My "feeling" from experience in economies like this is that MOST small business owners are not colored red or blue when they vote with their wallet, when they decide to invest or not; that they get the information they use to struggle and boogie in any economy from the market they operate in, not politics. We live in a new world today where it is NOT the under 25 employees guy who has fuck all to say about 'pro business politics'.

For the statement you challenged I conjured an archetype. That was of a pawnshop owner in Lousiiana, who sued the Obama government for relief after a storm, claiming their business had been damaged when we all know damn well they set up a second set of books to stay out of the "new economy" and did landslide business on the backs on people who actually suffered from an oil spill, a storm, a collapse, whatever. I also conjured a gas station owner in Ohio in 1979, a newspaper owner in Ypsilanti, a media company in Chicago, and over a hundred small business owners I have talked to since 2008.

Red, Blue or otherwise, if you are a true small business owner (less than 500 employees) I can inform you and help you release capital and create jobs. Call it charity, call one point of light, call it, break this bullshit economic hostage situation.

If your post was for the sake of argument you will be given one liners just like dude. If you are a small business owner and want to grow I am all ears and sound advice. In public, I have nothing to sell.



There was a time, for about a decade, where I was lobbying Congress, so I sort of have an idea of what you're saying. I don't think it's the Fox influence on small business as much as it is the Chamber of Commerce. For a century or more, the CC was active in every town, especially small ones, in promoting members, while being politically neutral. That has changed radically just in the last 15 or so years. Nearly every press release, convention, and executive committee is packed with a right-wing-agenda and that agenda is couched in language that leads the small business owner to think that the CC, which is supposed to be supporting things good for business, is actually doing that. They aren't. Quite a bit of what they advocate requires a local businessman to act and vote against his own best interests, from infrastructure investment to school bonds. And I think the change from neutral to right has been deliberately subtle and misleading, especially when they get caught doing that and deny it. In that respect, I do agree there is an ignorance among small business owners, and that's part of why.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
lojo
lojo
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September 20th, 2013 at 8:13:38 PM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

Neither does making fun of my spelling challenge.


By the way, who introduced the first bill that would have normalized online gambling? was it Mr. Frank?
sush dude.
lojo
lojo
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September 20th, 2013 at 8:14:20 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

There was a time, for about a decade, where I was lobbying Congress, so I sort of have an idea of what you're saying. I don't think it's the Fox influence on small business as much as it is the Chamber of Commerce. For a century or more, the CC was active in every town, especially small ones, in promoting members, while being politically neutral. That has changed radically just in the last 15 or so years. Nearly every press release, convention, and executive committee is packed with a right-wing-agenda and that agenda is couched in language that leads the small business owner to think that the CC, which is supposed to be supporting things good for business, is actually doing that. They aren't. Quite a bit of what they advocate requires a local businessman to act and vote against his own best interests, from infrastructure investment to school bonds. And I think the change from neutral to right has been deliberately subtle and misleading, especially when they get caught doing that and deny it. In that respect, I do agree there is an ignorance among small business owners, and that's part of why.



I'll be back, would love to read this and respond but sober calls lol
lojo
lojo
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September 20th, 2013 at 8:17:36 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

There was a time, for about a decade, where I was lobbying Congress, so I sort of have an idea of what you're saying. I don't think it's the Fox influence on small business as much as it is the Chamber of Commerce. For a century or more, the CC was active in every town, especially small ones, in promoting members, while being politically neutral. That has changed radically just in the last 15 or so years. Nearly every press release, convention, and executive committee is packed with a right-wing-agenda and that agenda is couched in language that leads the small business owner to think that the CC, which is supposed to be supporting things good for business, is actually doing that. They aren't. Quite a bit of what they advocate requires a local businessman to act and vote against his own best interests, from infrastructure investment to school bonds. And I think the change from neutral to right has been deliberately subtle and misleading, especially when they get caught doing that and deny it. In that respect, I do agree there is an ignorance among small business owners, and that's part of why.



+1
Well informed
lojo
lojo
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September 20th, 2013 at 8:24:15 PM permalink
I don't intend to get bogged down in politics. I opened this thread as a way to introduce another side of myself that may have not been seen in my previous postings. - to get to know others, to become part of the community.

Now ya know me a little better :)
timberjim
timberjim
Joined: Dec 5, 2009
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September 21st, 2013 at 3:11:04 AM permalink
Quote: lojo

Well, nothing empirical to be sure. But if we look at how 'they vote', and where they get their information, and the way they spew party line politics instead of investigating issues, we can anecdotally surmise - a goodly majority are now faux newz shleep.

If your post was for the sake of argument you will be given one liners just like dude. If you are a small business owner and want to grow I am all ears and sound advice in public. I have nothing to sell.



No argument. Just wanted you to make it clear to everyone reading this that you, by your own admission, have nothing to back up your statements.

It is a complete waste of time to try to debate any points with someone who has admitted that he makes up the facts he argues with since that is what he believes they should be.
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
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September 21st, 2013 at 3:54:30 AM permalink
Quote: lojo

Okay spellng lesson
FRANK
F (all words beginning with f)
How do you make that a spelling challenge?
You are a bigot unless you can explain this simple mystery, sir.



Yep, I'm a bigot, thanks for opportunity to express myself.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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September 21st, 2013 at 3:59:46 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

There was a time, for about a decade, where I was lobbying Congress, so I sort of have an idea of what you're saying. I don't think it's the Fox influence on small business as much as it is the Chamber of Commerce. For a century or more, the CC was active in every town, especially small ones, in promoting members, while being politically neutral. That has changed radically just in the last 15 or so years. Nearly every press release, convention, and executive committee is packed with a right-wing-agenda and that agenda is couched in language that leads the small business owner to think that the CC, which is supposed to be supporting things good for business, is actually doing that. They aren't. Quite a bit of what they advocate requires a local businessman to act and vote against his own best interests, from infrastructure investment to school bonds. And I think the change from neutral to right has been deliberately subtle and misleading, especially when they get caught doing that and deny it. In that respect, I do agree there is an ignorance among small business owners, and that's part of why.



How is voting against infrastructure or school bonds just blanket "voting against the businessman's best interest?" Please explain this.

The CoC really doesn't influence small business in this way. Businesses join the CoC because they see them doing work that will help them in a positive way. If as a business owner living in a town that wants to build an unneeded new school with lots of unneeded things they pack in schools these days (eg: swimming pool, fancy gym, etc) sees a group trying to defeat such a measure then he will be more prone to join. If he just sees the CoC as a group to have lunch with then he will be less likely to care.

You seem to think small business owners are somehow stupid and do not understand their own situation. Other posts in the thread seem to think that the small business owner is not knowing how all of the regulations put in place have negatively affected him because he does not have a roomful of MBAs and lawyers to explain it to him. It seems to be implied here that the small business owner "just does not understand" that the higher minimum wage and Obamacare mandates will hurt him until his accountant gives him that week's checks to sign.

Why does the left-wing always assume this?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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September 21st, 2013 at 4:22:55 AM permalink
Quote: lojo

We would simply have to agree to disagree on this one. Your statements are the party line "excuse". I believe it is a hostage situation pure and simple. Your argument #1 is frail; risk management tells us we CAN invest and pull out at x% loss (or continue to long term profit) if a new regulatory environment takes effect. Keep in mind that a great majority of economy movement is small business, (99%) and not to be a douche, but your average employer of 25 people or less (true small business) is simply not well enough informed to form a cogent argument that would validate that statement. He does, however, happen to be vote Republican on average



Nonsense. See my other post. Small business owners are actually more likely to be affected by regulations and pull back even faster. I have seen it happen, been at state-level regulatory meetings. The small guy had to take hours of his day to figure how to comply, my place I just waited for HQ to tell me what to do. In this case, is the small guy going to buy another truck and expand? Doubtful.


Quote:

Taxes and Regulation: The economy stalled because of what occurred prior to 2008. Being gamblers we can take a random draw of SIC codes, say 20 purely at random and take a look at if, indeed, they face new taxes and regulations under the current administration. We can then look at any new business incentives they have available and see if they are better off now, or in 2007. You game? I'm not because I already know the answer.



Horse Hockey. The Panic of 2008 was in reality not all that different than the dozen other "Panics" we had from 1800-1930. In those cases, except 1929, the damage happened and in a few years growth returned to normal. ALL businesses face new regulation post-2008 in the form of Obamacare alone. Add in the threat of taking away a worker's right to vote to join a union. Add in a POTUS who promised he would make your electric bill skyrocket. Add in a tax increase. Screw the "incentives" as all they do is distort investment.

Quote:

Carbon Taxes: Sure, let's fall behind the rest of the world here too.



I am happy to fall as far behind the rest of the world in raising these taxes to solve some non-existent "problem" as we can. Let the rest of the world tax themselves to death here.

Quote:

Obamacare: Talk about a hostage situation! The radical nestea party held rational Republicans hostage today - Boehner will bend, the govt will not shut down. And again, let's just go back to millions of uninsured Americans driving up the cost of health care and stay in the back of the pack in relation to developed nations. Decline and fall America, it's the patriotic thing to do! I haven't looked at the numbers on this issue, it is the will of the people and it is the law of the land - no reason to hold the economy hostage by not investing.



Just let them buy health insurance. I mean, that is the law under Obamacare, buy it or go to prison? Our health care is about the best out there, ask any Canadian who came across the border while they waited months for a MRI. It is just that everyone cannot drive a Cadillac. It would have been easier if the people who said "they don't mind higher taxes to cover everyone" would just individually buy a policy for one uninsured person each. Problem would have been solved. Instead we get people losing coverage left and right. Obamacare might be the biggest mess the USA ever created.

Quote:

Minimum Wage: The old saws just don't play in this era. I've read enough economists (okay I'm a Krugman fan) who debunk that claim on merit. It will actually stimulate the economy if employers also invest! Of course it would only be a burden otherwise and there would be some layoffs and failures. Point: when I was researching chicanery by gtech the other night and saw the misreporting of where a winning lottery ticket was bought (120 miles from where they said it was) I was also looking at the economy and saw a McDonalds operating 20 feet (across the street) from a state with a $2 less minimum wage. They were doing fine and didn't plan to move, they didn't move when they tore the old store down and built a new one in it's place. Sales tax is higher where they are, almost all taxes are - but I ramble. In short, your argument no longer holds water. Google Forbes on minimum wage, read with open mind, report back. Thank you.



I have read and seen all I need to on MW. Raising it does not stimulate the economy any more than raising the price of gasoline by $1 helps it. Any Econ-101 student knows if you raise the price of something then no matter the price elasticity less will be consumed. Don't you wonder why there are all those self-serve check-outs at the store; why full-serve gasoline exists only by regulation; why self-serve kiosks are all around? Raise minimum wage and you increase unemployment among the least employable.

Quote:

Business hostile administration: Rubbish. Had the 2010 HIRE act gone through at the 150 billion the President proposed rather than the trickle of $17.5 billion the "pro-business party" allowed we would have seen a much greater affect.



Mule Muffins. This administration got $865 BILLION in stimulus. That is about 5% of the economy. We don't need more "jobs bills." We need an administration that does not propose more regulation like it is a bodily function. We need an administration that does not call successful people and corporations "greedy" and demand they "pay their fair share." We need an administration that can explain how jobs get created without using the word "government."

Quote:

how do ya think the House gambit over Obama care is gonna work out for the party? lol



It will do as intended. Whip up support against the law; put senators on record as supporting it; and show the >50% who want it repealed that they have a choice.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

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