Do you consider this "Excessive Absenteeism"?

This is an interesting thread.

First, let me say that I am against moving sick time into PTO. As others have pointed out, that encourages people to come in when they are sick. I don't want my coworkers here when they are sick.

My company has a different approach. We get vacation time (start at 3 wks, 4wks at 3+years and 5wks at 5+ years). We also get unlimited sick days. (with short- and long- term disability kicking in after missing a certain amount of consecutive time)

Here's why I like this approach:

1. You don't lose anything by staying home when you are sick (as opposed to PTO, where you do). Encouraging people to stay home when they are sick is good for the company! If a co-worker is here and obviously sick, I will bluntly ask them to please go home. If they have limited PTO, it's a lot harder to do that (since you are asking them to give something up)

2. Most people don't use all their sick days anyway, so it doesn't cost the company anything to make them unlimited. If I use 5 sick days a year, it doesn't matter if my limit was 10 or "unlimited".

3. You are no longer encouraged to "use your sick days up". You don't have sick days. It discourages people from gaming the system (this is probably more psychological than anything else, but, if there is a limit, not using them feels like a waste to some people. That goes away when there is no limit)

There are rules about what does and doesn't constitute a sick day (staying home to take care of a sick child or relative is explicitly allowed)

Of course, if they feel that someone is abusing the system and taking excessive sick days, that can be taken care of on a case-by-case basis. Also, people are judged based on what they accomplish, not how long they are here, so taking time off doesn't really help you in the long term. No one is checking to see when you are here, or what you are doing while you are here. Again, if there is a problem with performance, that will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Our hours are also completely flexible, so it would be hard to keep track of. I will often come to work for 12 hours, slack off for 4 of them, and work for 8.

Overall, I think that it's not a problem and works very well.

Quote: AcesAndEights

If I were you, I would be praying to not be stricken with a real, honest-to-god, have-to-miss-a-week flu or other serious illness. All your sick days for 2012 are gone...

Well then, I'm coming in to work sick, like everyone else does, aren't I?

Quote: TIMSPEED

Well then, I'm coming in to work sick, like everyone else does, aren't I?

There's sick leave and there's sick leave. If you used up your sick leave on minor ailments, you don't have it for something more serious. The everyone else person would still have the option.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

This is an interesting thread.

First, let me say that I am against moving sick time into PTO. As others have pointed out, that encourages people to come in when they are sick. I don't want my coworkers here when they are sick.

My company has a different approach. We get vacation time (start at 3 wks, 4wks at 3+years and 5wks at 5+ years). We also get unlimited sick days. (with short- and long- term disability kicking in after missing a certain amount of consecutive time)

Here's why I like this approach:

1. You don't lose anything by staying home when you are sick (as opposed to PTO, where you do). Encouraging people to stay home when they are sick is good for the company! If a co-worker is here and obviously sick, I will bluntly ask them to please go home. If they have limited PTO, it's a lot harder to do that (since you are asking them to give something up)

2. Most people don't use all their sick days anyway, so it doesn't cost the company anything to make them unlimited. If I use 5 sick days a year, it doesn't matter if my limit was 10 or "unlimited".

3. You are no longer encouraged to "use your sick days up". You don't have sick days. It discourages people from gaming the system (this is probably more psychological than anything else, but, if there is a limit, not using them feels like a waste to some people. That goes away when there is no limit)

There are rules about what does and doesn't constitute a sick day (staying home to take care of a sick child or relative is explicitly allowed)

Of course, if they feel that someone is abusing the system and taking excessive sick days, that can be taken care of on a case-by-case basis. Also, people are judged based on what they accomplish, not how long they are here, so taking time off doesn't really help you in the long term. No one is checking to see when you are here, or what you are doing while you are here. Again, if there is a problem with performance, that will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Our hours are also completely flexible, so it would be hard to keep track of. I will often come to work for 12 hours, slack off for 4 of them, and work for 8.

Overall, I think that it's not a problem and works very well.

Do you work for a large software company that prints money and whose slogan is "Don't be evil?"

Printing money is highly illegal.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Printing money is highly illegal.

Tell Congress that, will you ?

This reminds me of an old "Dilbert" where the boss gets upset when he learned 40% of the sick days taken are on a monday or a friday.

That being said, taking 12 sick days a year to me is excessive. Unless you are on some kind of medical issue that requires an all-day monthly visit that is calling off a lot. I worked with a woman who said "10 days is not enough" with the reasoning if she had kids when they were sick she was sick. Said a day a month is not much.

MULE MUFFINS!

Lets flip this. Say you show up to work one day per month and are told, "sorry, things are slow, go home, and no pay!"

Missing a day a month is being gone 5% of the time. And in most places puts an extra burden on those who show up.

Sorry, I cannot grant a pass here.

Quote: AZDuffman

Lets flip this. Say you show up to work one day per month and are told, "sorry, things are slow, go home, and no pay!"
Missing a day a month is being gone 5% of the time. And in most places puts an extra burden on those who show up.
Sorry, I cannot grant a pass here.

I'm fine with that! I'll go get another job during the other time....sucks to be on contract and part of a union don't it?

Quote: Buzzard

Tell Congress that, will you ?

The Federal Reserve.

Close enough though.

Ok to pay millions to CEO's who fail, plus 10's of million as a golden parachute, but shame , shame, on somebody abusing a sick day written policy. SHAME SHAME