Face
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July 17th, 2012 at 5:53:37 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Face, you have to tell us the full story of the bear charge.



I've had 4 bear encounters in my life, and several more sightings. One wasn't a big deal, I just happened upon it on a hiking trail, seen it from pretty far off, and we both just went on with our business.

My first ever was very eye opening. I was about 14 and camping. We were running around the campsite, yelling around like kids do, and had the radio bumping, but one came to us anyway. She was pretty big, close to 300lb, and was sniffing around the cabin. We, of course, all gathered to watch, and were hootin' and hollerin', and she never paid us any mind. She got to scratching at the side of the cabin, and in doing so, ripped the entire window out. I don't mean the screen, I mean the entire window frame came right out of the wall. She wasn't aggressive about it, she didn't pull hard or even struggle. What looked like light pawing ripped it right out. Their strength is incredible. We ran into the cabin because there were other kids sleeping inside, and we got them outside. Nothing happened other than the bear taking a box of food, but through all the rip roaring going on around her, she never paid any attention to it.

I just had one last year, camping again. 12 of us around a fire, one Lab therapy dog and two German something or others. Everyone was chatting, having a good ol' time, and for some reason, something caught my attention. I turned around and there was a bear, not 15 feet away from me, sniffing at the ground. No one seen it, none of the dogs alerted, I don't even know how I sensed it, but there it was. I calmly said "bear" and pulled my Glock, keeping my eyes on it. Everyone bolted, leaving me there alone (I had no idea, I was too focused). It glanced at us once, went on to it's sniffing, and after 3 minutes or so, faded back into the woods. I guess it was a big deal because it was a bear, and it was so close I could see it's nose wiggling and hear it's breath, but it really paid us no mind at all.

The charge happened when I was out 4wheeling with a buddy. I ride hell for leather always, and as I screamed over the crest of a hill, something bolted from the weeds right in front of me. How I didn't wreck avoiding it, and how I avoided it period, I don't know, but I saw it was a dark, somewhat large animal, and it was running just off the trail in the same direction I was going. As I rolled to a stop, I sensed a commotion off to my left, and seen whatever I had almost hit up ahead as it bolted up a tree right next to the trail. Me being me, I crept up to see what it was. There, not 7 feet up the tree looking down at me, was the cutest cub ever. It was RIGHT THERE, I could've reached out and touched it. With the adrenaline of both riding like a maniac coupled with a near wreck, I guess I was kind of high, and I just stared at it a bit. My friend, who had stopped when he saw me almost lose it, was a good 100 feet back, and I frantically waved him up so he could take a look. As he came my way, I started scanning the woods for the commotion I saw earlier, and that's when I saw mama. She was still motoring around pretty good, about 200 feet away, and I saw her locate another cub and sniff him down. Back to my friend who had caught up, and I pointed out the cub. He also got excited and focused in on it. I looked back for mama and saw her again with nose to ground, sniffing around furiously. And then she came. Head down, nose to ground, she came at us at a trot. I wasn't scared yet. She obviously had the scent and was coming this way because her cub was here, and she was still quite far off. I don't know if it was an incorrect assumption or me just reading her demeanor, but fear hadn't kicked in yet. I kicked my wheeler in drive, pulling forward a few feet to give her room while looking back, expecting my friend to follow. Mama had stopped, I assume, because my wheeler had a race pipe and barked pretty loud, but my friend was still oogling the cub. I found out later he had never even realized there was more than one, had never seen the mama. She paused in mid step, head up, looking at us. I called to my friend and he didn't respond. Mama came again, faster, now head up and heading right at us at a gallop. I killed my wheeler and screamed at my friend and he still didn't respond. I don't know if he was spacing out, or if it was our helmets killing the sound, but he never acknowledged me. He was a few feet behind the cub, I was only 10-15 feet passed it, and mama was coming right at us. In retrospect, things should've gotten messy. My wheeler hadn't started for me all day due to electrical problems. For the 20 or so times I stopped that day, I had to bump start it every single time. But in a not quite panic, I instinctively hit the starter and it fired. I revved the piss out of it, pinging the rev limiter and popping out a few backfires. THAT got his attention. I waved frantically for him to Move His Ass and pointed hard at the mama. She had stopped dead again at the scream of my wheeler, now only 50 feet away, head and ears up looking right at us. NOW he saw her, and he punched his own starter button. I kicked mine back into gear and peeled the hell out of there.

We were still kinda high and joking around about it as soon as we cleared the area, but nausea soon set in. I got legitimately scared. There where just so many "what ifs". What if I didn't get his attention? My wheeler hadn't started one single time all day, what if it didn't THAT time? I'd have been stuck, 10 feet away from a scared cub with a scared mama coming for me just tens of feet away. It would've been over. And that's what I meant to Wiz. I'd been on those trails a number of times without a sighting. Within seconds, everything could've went really bad. What if I had hit the cub and wrecked in the process? No way to run, possibly injured, and laying next to a mangled cub with a scared mama on the way? It's a death sentence, and the reason I so encourage Wiz or anyone else who does these outdoorsy things and has a weapon to carry it. I know how much of a hassle carrying is, and after 10, 50, 100 walks where you don't see so much as a bee's nest for danger, it seems like an unnecessary hassle. But, even though my charge was, in retrospect, relatively mild, I remember how close it could've been. I remember that feeling of fear while going through all the "what ifs". And it's very easy for me to put myself back in the same situation, only without a friend for possible help, without a 4wheeler to scare her off and transport myself to safety, to be back in an encounter on foot with just my young son at my side.

The chances of this happening are very slim. The chances of it happening again are even more rare. But I still go outdoors, and I still see bear. I'll probably see another in a few weeks, and it'll probably be a mellow encounter same as the last. But I've seen first hand their ridiculous power. I've been in a situation where no amount of loud noises or big sticks are going to scare it away. I've been in a situation where my life was in danger, and it happened by total random chance. I've no reason to suspect it won't happen again. And when my son is involved, there is no other option. Just the thought of another encounter with him at my side and no pistol in my hand churns my stomach. So I don't care if I'm deep in the woods on a week long camp, or at the edge of town picking crayfish out of the crick, I never go anywhere without my Glock. I encourage everyone to do the same. Your stories are for you to tell, make sure you make it back to tell them.
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2012 at 6:30:27 PM permalink
You told the story about the four-wheeling incident extremely well. Your friends should never have left the campfire, running away may make the bear think they are easy prey. Furthermore, it is very rare for a bear to attack a group, and gathering close together makes the group look imposing to the bear.

The most important rule of all if you are going to run is: You don't have to be able to outrun the bear, just the slowest of the people you are with.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
rudeboyoi
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July 17th, 2012 at 6:32:25 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Quote: odiousgambit



The chances of this happening are very slim. The chances of it happening again are even more rare.



each bear encounter is independent of other bear encounters hehe.
Wizard
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July 17th, 2012 at 6:36:29 PM permalink
Thanks for the story. Do you mind telling us where this occurred?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Face
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July 17th, 2012 at 7:37:00 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You told the story about the four-wheeling incident extremely well. Your friends should never have left the campfire, running away may make the bear think they are easy prey. Furthermore, it is very rare for a bear to attack a group, and gathering close together makes the group look imposing to the bear.

The most important rule of all if you are going to run is: You don't have to be able to outrun the bear, just the slowest of the people you are with.



Thanks for the compliment. I agree about the running, and also the joke about "outrunning the slowest friend". Unfortunately for me, I was the only one who stayed put. Other than a half turn in my chair to face the bear and a reach for my Glock, I never even moved. I was so focused on what the bear was doing, the condition of my gun and going through my checklist, I had no idea everyone had gone. Never saw them, never heard them, I just turned around after the bear left and saw that I was alone lol.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks for the story. Do you mind telling us where this occurred?



The far encounter was in the woods just behind Seneca Allegany Casino, although there was no casino there at the time. It was just woods and 4wheeler trails between the city of Salamanca and Allegany State Park.

Both the cabin encounter and the campfire encounter were within Allegany State Park. The cabin on the Redhouse side, the campfire on the Quaker (for those familiar with the area.)

The mama charge was in the Majestic Trails ATV park, located in Rue, PA, about 15 minutes south of the NY border just outside of Bradford, PA. In other words, in the same general area as the other three. I think it's maybe 10 or 15 miles from Majestic to Allegany State Park, as the crow flies.

I've had a few sightings in a neighboring town to my home, in Perrysburg, NY (about 35 miles south of Buffalo, or 45 miles south of SOOPOO) An old family friend actually got into a lick of trouble a few years ago by plunking one outside of hunting season across the street from the house I recently moved from. But most of my sightings happen near the Seneca Allegany Casino/Allegany State Park area, at the NY/PA border. We actually have traps set up and warnings posted for bear at the casino, and have seen two in the parking lot in the three years I've been here. I'm pretty sure they're not shot takers, but I keep track of them anyway ;)
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buzzpaff
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July 17th, 2012 at 8:42:30 PM permalink
If a bear is chasing you, never ever run out of the woods. Never !
odiousgambit
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July 18th, 2012 at 12:23:19 AM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

Quote: Face

Quote: odiousgambit



The chances of this happening are very slim. The chances of it happening again are even more rare.



each bear encounter is independent of other bear encounters hehe.



rudeboy, you are quoting someone else. Just saying.

Face, thanks for that story. Black bears are said to be less protective of their cubs than other species, but you have me wondering now just how safe it is to be around those cubs. In the case of the other bears, it is best policy not to gawk at any cubs but get the hell away as fast as possible, as "protective" is not the word, gawkers are in grave danger.

After your story, I think I will assume a black bear mother is not to be trusted either. In any case, when seeing cubs, one has to remember the mother is not far away.

Blacks, at least the wild ones not familiar with humans, very seldom attack and [I am told] typically mothers send cubs up a tree and vamoose when threatened. Surprisingly, though, the rule about browns or grizzlies if attacked and not armed is to fall to the ground, cover your head, and play dead, while with blacks it is to fight to the bitter end. The reason given is that a black bear that attacks [and is not protecting cubs] is a desperately hungry bear that plans to eat you. Your only chance is to convince it to try to eat something else.

Black bears accustomed to humans must be quite unpredictable.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
rainman
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July 18th, 2012 at 1:29:24 AM permalink
What caliber of glock? generally speaking a hand gun isn't consider to have enough stopping power for bear. Unless its a freakishly large caliber.
rudeboyoi
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July 18th, 2012 at 4:06:06 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit



rudeboy, you are quoting someone else. Just saying.



not sure why it came out like that.
DJTeddyBear
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July 18th, 2012 at 4:57:55 AM permalink
Fascinating story. Well told. Thanks.



Quote: Face

The chances of this happening are very slim. The chances of it happening again are even more rare.

Wait a sec...
Aren't you invoking the "past results affect future outcomes" principle?

But seriously, if the odds have lowered, it's only because you're now more experienced, and may be able to avoid getting into such a situation in the future.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Face
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July 18th, 2012 at 3:21:07 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Face, thanks for that story. Black bears are said to be less protective of their cubs than other species, but you have me wondering now just how safe it is to be around those cubs. In the case of the other bears, it is best policy not to gawk at any cubs but get the hell away as fast as possible, as "protective" is not the word, gawkers are in grave danger.

After your story, I think I will assume a black bear mother is not to be trusted either. In any case, when seeing cubs, one has to remember the mother is not far away.

Blacks, at least the wild ones not familiar with humans, very seldom attack and [I am told] typically mothers send cubs up a tree and vamoose when threatened. Surprisingly, though, the rule about browns or grizzlies if attacked and not armed is to fall to the ground, cover your head, and play dead, while with blacks it is to fight to the bitter end. The reason given is that a black bear that attacks [and is not protecting cubs] is a desperately hungry bear that plans to eat you. Your only chance is to convince it to try to eat something else.

Black bears accustomed to humans must be quite unpredictable.



You are welcome =) In the bear world, blacks are definitely the babies. But there is no "safe bear", and even a "less protective bear" is still more than any human being can handle. When it comes to kids, back off in ALL cases. And I mean ALL. Doesn't matter if you happen across a baby beaver, or little racoon kits, or a flock of fuzzy goslings, every one of their mothers have a chance of attacking, and not a single one of them is pleasant.

And I tend to agree with your blacks vs others comparison. "Wild" blacks, like those I've seen around my house, are almost spectral. You barely catch a glimpse of them before they're gone, if you see them at all. I've rarely seen a "wild" black. "Conditioned" blacks, on the other hand, are like you said. Unpredictable. The majority of the ones I've seen were at ASP, and like all the horror stories you see on the news, it's exactly the same. Bears come in to raid the garbage. They're not scared of people because people are constantly present. Shouting, dogs barking, doors slamming, they're just not affected. I don't think they'd attack, simply for lack of reason, but since your approach probably won't scare them, you run the risk of finding you've cornered one. Or you could turn around to find one sniffing at your neck lol. That's when things can get ugly, and why Wiz has me concerned. All these State Parks and government run nature areas are the same. Lots of people, all year long, in wild animal habitat. Random woods is one thing, "wild" bears usually scoot. Bears in these parks get conditioned, and conditioned bears don't run.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Fascinating story. Well told. Thanks.



You are welcome as well =)

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wait a sec...
Aren't you invoking the "past results affect future outcomes" principle?



This is why I love this place. You guys are hilarious! Can't even let a suspected math error go in a bear story lol.

No, the chances are less because things have changed. Back then, 90% of my "woods time" was spent at 40mph. Nowadays, 100% of it is spent at a slow walk, either dragging my canoe or walking with my young son (or both). Bear, especially black with cubs, won't stick around long enough for me to catch them at a walk. Had I been simply riding rather than trying to break the sound barrier, I doubt I would've caught the mama and cubs the last time. Also, yes, there'll be no more "stop and watch". Been there, done that, keep it moving ;)

Quote: rainman

What caliber of glock? generally speaking a hand gun isn't consider to have enough stopping power for bear. Unless its a freakishly large caliber.



I have a Glock RTF22, which is a .40cal. Blacks around here average in the 200-300lb range. The 500 pounder my dad's friend shot a few years back (with a bow and arrow) is a legit giant, a once in a lifetime sighting. The 200+lb ones, although much, much more dense and muscular, are about the size of a large dog. Maybe 3 feet at the shoulder, they're not big at all, nowhere near the browns that Wiz has a chance of running into. I am confident that my .40 is sufficient. Of course, I'd be totally confident with the .44, but this is NY. Open carry is completely forbidden, and concealing a gun that large, especially in 90* heat and 100% humidity, is entirely impossible. As it is, I only have one outfit that keeps the Glock under wraps. I <3 NY =p
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DJTeddyBear
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July 19th, 2012 at 6:19:17 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wait a sec...
Aren't you invoking the "past results affect future outcomes" principle?

This is why I love this place. You guys are hilarious! Can't even let a suspected math error go in a bear story lol.


Glad you got the intended chuckle. :)
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FinsRule
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July 19th, 2012 at 6:24:52 AM permalink
When it comes to bear attacks, someone who gets attacked once, is much more likely to get attacked for a second time then someone who has never been attacked being attacked once.

So in that sense, past results do affect future outcomes.

Oh, that doesn't count people who were attacked and killed.
Face
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Face
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August 13th, 2012 at 4:18:19 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Encounters happen randomly and without warning...


Quote: Face

I'll probably see another in a few weeks...



Somehow, I've contradicted myself, yet maintained truth in both sentences.


6 freaking sightings this time, more than double my entire lifetime. This one pictured was at 4pm and in broad daylight, and as you can see, the bears here just don't care. There's human activity everywhere, and they'll just trot right through it. So much for "black bears are skittish", huh? At any national park area, where humans are frequently in the wilderness, bears can be conditioned just like this.

It was a rough trip this time. 12 kids from 3yrs to 10yrs, ranging in personalities from my 6yr old cousin who cried and ran anytime
anyone said a word that sounded anything like "bear", to my 3yr old son who wanted nothing more than to finally catch and ride one,
to all the grown folk pictured (none of which are my family), who just wanted, apparently, to be on the news for being mauled. I've
done some training with gun play from many awkward stances, but this took the cake. Trying to maintain firing lines and position while
simultaneously holding kids back or knocking them back onto the porch wasn't in the brochure lol. Right hand on Glock, right leg to
stand on, left arm to grab kids, and left leg to knock them down. What a cluster.

This is an average adult for here. About 3' at the shoulder, 250lbs, and powerful enough to rip the face off that Silverado
in the background. The one my buddy shot was twice this size. Browns can get nearly SIX TIMES this size. I'm not saying,
I'm just saying ;)
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EvenBob
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August 13th, 2012 at 4:23:50 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Trying to maintain firing lines and position while
simultaneously holding kids back



So you're not the guy on the porch in
the white shirt? Thanks for clearing
that up..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Face
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Face
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August 13th, 2012 at 5:54:51 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

So you're not the guy on the porch in
the white shirt? Thanks for clearing
that up..



Lol, you know what I look like. The bizzaro HB Challenge for me to get that big would be at least 50:1 against =p

No, this pic was taken by my cousin walking back from the bathrooms. This trail was kitty corner from ours, and the pic taken as the bear ran from this one right through ours. At this time, most of the kids were at the beach and I had mine out on the canoe. The cluster happened that night at about 10p. Just like last year, I was within 15 feet of it, close enough to read the tag in it's ear, see it's whiskers, hear it's chuffing breath. I like seeing them, but not like this...
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poosmells
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August 14th, 2012 at 1:21:37 PM permalink
I fought a bear with my bare hands once. I beat him up and then i used his skin to make a coat. I didnt need a glock like a little girl.
"Stupid people are Stupid and that is Stupid."
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