Nareed
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June 29th, 2012 at 9:56:25 AM permalink
I need time to write a proper rant for this airline, but in the meantime here are the low-lights:

No online baording pass pritning

No assigned seating.

The seats do not recline

Food and drink are available for a fee. That's not wrong, IMO, but you find this out on board the plane. They don't tell you this on the website or when you check in.

There are no entertainment options on board. no video, no audio of any kind.

The captain comes on the PA about 20 minutes prior to the descent, to do a longish announcement concerning altitude, location, ETA for the descent and ETA for arrival. No information on weather conditions at the destination (wtf??)

Lugagge is capped at 25 kg per person documented, and 10 kg per person carry-on. Any excedent gets charged.

If you book online, they charge a fee for online booking. If you buy your tickets at the airport, they charge a fee for that, too. I'm told they charge a fee for buying tickets at other avaibale locations.

Aside from not reclining, the seats are very uncomfrotable. The seat back was about as high as my neck, and tended to push me forward. I saw other people resting their head against the side of the plane, or leaning their heads forward.

It's very cheap, but I don't think the negatives are worth it.

And I haven't said a word about their really bad service yet...
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Nareed
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June 29th, 2012 at 4:21:15 PM permalink
To begin with, why did I fly on Viva?

Because I always check all the alternatives and usually go with the cheapest one. And because I'm a bit of an aviation enthusiast, so I will take the opportunity to travel in different airlines, palnes and even to different airports if I get the chance.

IN this case Viva was cheapest, by about $100 US, and the return flight was just 20 minutes later than Interjet (or so I thought...)

So, from the top:

When you book online you're offered an "Express Pass" and a "VIP Pass." But when you clicked on "more info," what popped up was a description of hwo things would be like from July 15th onward. I declined the offer, which weren't that expensive but also seemed unnecessary (I was right).

As usual I'd be traveling with only a carry-on bag, so I figured I'd print my baording apsses online and get to the airport 45 minutes before the flight. As I noted, though, this proved impossble. Oh, well. So I'd have to get to the airport by 4:30 am. Well, I can always sleep on the plane, right? Riiiiiiiiiight.... At check-in I discovered the Express and VIP options allowed you to check-in sooner. Well, the counter was almost empty by 4:30, so I just checked in.

I asked for a window seat as far forward as was available. The agent didn't say anything to that. I asked for the return baording pass, too. The agent said she couldn't do that. Well. She ahdns me the baording pass, without a seat assignemnt, but with the number "1" scrawled prominently on it. I asked about this and was told I'd baord with the first group. I figured there was noa ssigned seating then, but the agent never said anythign about it. the Website dind't say anythign either.

Later on at the gate I asked the gate agent whether I could print the return boarding pass online. He said it wasn't necessary, as getting the pass at the coutner was free. Well! A real, live non-sequitur. I asked again, and he said the same thing.

At baording time they asked those with VIP and Express passes, special needs and the number 1 on their boarding apsses to board first. Inside the plane, the stewardess kept a running spiel about there not being assigned seating, which was the first I heard about it from the airline.

I found a window seat on the fifth row. First I tried tolocate the seat controls, as I usually do once I put my bag on the overhead bin. Only ther ewere no controls. none. No button for reclining the seat, no earphone jack, no volume controls. NONE. Sure enough, the seats don't recline and there are no etnertainment options on board. Well, I planned to sleep anyway. But read the previous post about the seat design. I've neve before sat on something that uncomfrotable. Needless to say, sleep elluded me.

Next I read the safety/emergency card. it's woefully brief, with very little text and very confusing pictograms. But no matter, I've flown enough and read enough about the matter that I know all there is to know about escaping a burning wreck, or as much as one can without any practice. Then I turned my attention to what was in the seat pocket in front of me. The usual bland in-flight magazine that's half advertising for the airline anyway, and two items you seldome see on an airplane: 1) a menu for food, drink, taxi serbvice in some cities and bus service in some cities with prices; 2) a lisitng of available bus destinations near to some of the cities that Viva flies to, along with which bus companies will give you a discount (75%, allegedly) if you show your Viva baording pass.

Anyway, that was the first I heard about paying for food and drink on board. As I said, i dont' mind airlines that do this, but they should let you know before you baord. for one thing the offerings are not very diverse. for another they are horribly inflated. For exmaple: 20 pesos for a 355 ml. can of soda (retail is 7 pesos), 25 pesos for a 60 gr. bag of chips or similar fried, salty snacks (retail is 10-13 pesos), 22 pesos for a sandwich (retail at a 7 Eleven is about 15 pesos).

I still planned to sleep, and I refuse on prinicple to overpay for junk food anyway. I like my empty calories to come cheap.

So after not sleeping most of the flight, we landed in Monterrey a few minutes ahead of schedule. Viva has its own terminal at that airport, which is its main hub (it took over after Aviacsa was grounded). The terminal is spartan, but clean and functional enough. More important I could get a cab there without any trouble.

By then I thought I'd never fly Viva again, unless price was a very important consideration. I mean, the seats are awful, they don't recline, they charge for everything, but at least it's cheap and can keep to a time table.

Or so I thought.

More later. For now, I do want to say that unlike other low cost airlines, Viva flies older planes. Specifically the Boeing 737-300. I don't think Boeing turns them out any longer, but I need to check that. they are well-maintained inside, and the fligths were smooth.
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heather
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June 29th, 2012 at 5:10:38 PM permalink
I was very unhappy when VivaAerobus quit flying into Texas. You are right about their fees, but their airfare within Mexico was like US$17.50 without the fees, which is great if you do a lot of business travel within Mexico and travel light while you're doing with it (both of which apply to me), especially if you're in and out of Monterrey (their hub) frequently. Their website was possibly the most user-friendly of any of the Mexican discount airlines, as well.

If your flight plan does not enter the US, another interesting alternative is Cubana de Aviacion. Dirt cheap and you get the fun of flying in old Soviet planes (and when those Yaks take off, you really feel those rear-mounted engines), plus the food has been excellent (in my experience). Doesn't serve any US airports, though, for obvious reasons.
P90
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June 29th, 2012 at 5:35:34 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Food and drink are available for a fee.
There are no entertainment options on board. no video, no audio of any kind.
No information on weather conditions at the destination (wtf??)
Lugagge is capped at 25 kg per person documented, and 10 kg per person carry-on. Any excedent gets charged.


My dream airline:

* No ticket necessary - can pay on boarding if seats are available
* No food, but water (low humidity causes dehydration)
* No entertainment, no other distractions
* No check-in luggage, 10kg carry-on
* GNTD "Match competitor's price"

And if we go all out "dream", night flights with 3-level bunk beds... yeah, not happening - but they only take as much space per passenger as economy seats.
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Nareed
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June 29th, 2012 at 6:04:08 PM permalink
Quote: P90

My dream airline:



Nightmares are dreams, too ;)
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Nareed
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June 29th, 2012 at 6:09:56 PM permalink
Quote: heather

You are right about their fees, but their airfare within Mexico was like US$17.50 without the fees, which is great if you do a lot of business travel within Mexico and travel light while you're doing with it (both of which apply to me), especially if you're in and out of Monterrey (their hub) frequently.



Round trip to Monterrey was ~ $175. A bit far from $17.50 But then about half of that is taxes and airport fees.

Luckily for me, I can pick how I travel for business. Plus Interjet and Volaris have a rep for being low cost. So I can arrange future travel in a more civilized fashion.

Quote:

Their website was possibly the most user-friendly of any of the Mexican discount airlines, as well.



It loads faster and has less junk than others. But it's the second-least informative.

How did they handle outgoing immigration when you flew to Texas? I've heard some nasty, time-wasting things about it.

Quote:

If your flight plan does not enter the US, another interesting alternative is Cubana de Aviacion.



I would not give Cuba a dime if my life depended on it.
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pacomartin
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June 29th, 2012 at 6:19:58 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

More later. For now, I do want to say that unlike other low cost airlines, Viva flies older planes. Specifically the Boeing 737-300. I don't think Boeing turns them out any longer, but I need to check that. they are well-maintained inside, and the fligths were smooth.



Vivaerbus has as it's oldest 737-300 only 20th one produced (27 years old). But Southwest is still flying four planes from the initial production of ten jets. Overall Southwest still has 167 active jets of this model.

Boeing stopped making the 737-300 in 1999.

So, they are old, but certainly not ancient (like Aerocalifornia jets).
P90
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June 29th, 2012 at 6:24:03 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Nightmares are dreams, too ;)


Just saying - they do a lot of things right.

Except instead of paying for food, plain no food aboard would be better. If it isn't a transoceanic.
Quote:

for another they are horribly inflated.
25 pesos for a 60 gr. bag of chips or similar fried, salty snacks (retail is 10-13 pesos), 22 pesos for a sandwich (retail at a 7 Eleven is about 15 pesos).


You call that inflated? Twice the 7-11 price isn't a lot. 22 for a value of 15 is about the price of a bad local store - 7-11 competes on price among other things. Airport vending machines have higher markup than that. It's definitely less than half of what it actually costs to serve you that food in the air (bring it in, extra weight, have more than 1 flight attendant, take up space that could fit seats).

And how is 35kg not enough? People should stop trying to bring half their apartment with them wherever they're going.

There's a nice website to help those who can admit they have a problem, but need help with the next step.
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heather
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June 29th, 2012 at 8:27:45 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Round trip to Monterrey was ~ $175. A bit far from $17.50 But then about half of that is taxes and airport fees.



US$17.50 was Monterrey to Leon (I've flown that route and back more times than I can count). But you're right, there were taxes and fees on top of that. Leaving Mexico can be especially painful due to the steep leaving-the-country tax.

Quote: Nareed

How did they handle outgoing immigration when you flew to Texas? I've heard some nasty, time-wasting things about it.



I got searched and had all my bags searched in front of the check-in desk, then got searched again and had my carry-on searched a second time at the boarding gate. They looked for dust in the vents of my laptop and tried unsuccessfully to turn on my phone, but didn't complain in the least when they couldn't turn it on. Went through poking and prodding through garbage in my bag but somehow missed packs of Cuban cigarettes (or else didn't care because they weren't US Customs). Seemed to me like they were more interested in making sure that duties on electronics got paid than anything else. But, really, nothing substantially different than what I've experienced leaving Mexico aboard Mexicana or other airlines.

Quote: Nareed

I would not give Cuba a dime if my life depended on it.



An entirely legitimate position. Their cigarettes suck, BTW. I should have saved my money and stocked up on Faros. It genuinely never occurred to me that they might not be available en el otro lado, and business has since had me working elsewhere.

Edited to add: 22 pesos for a sandwich is a ripoff by Mexican standards, but a great price versus what you'd pay in the US. I think that's about a buck fifty.
pacomartin
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June 29th, 2012 at 9:36:09 PM permalink
Quote: heather

But, really, nothing substantially different than what I've experienced leaving Mexico aboard Mexicana or other airlines.

Edited to add: 22 pesos for a sandwich is a ripoff by Mexican standards, but a great price versus what you'd pay in the US. I think that's about a buck fifty.



I think the smallest airport that I ever was in was in Uruapan. I was there around 1999 when they had a crash minutes after take-off. They had one flight to Tijuana on a full size jet, and several regional aircraft going to Mexico City per day. I never saw such a thorough search of bags for that single flight, and it wasn't even an international flight.

I must presume that Uruapan is the center of a lot of cultivation which moves into Tijuana.


American airports decades ago all had overpriced food outlets. They were modified to look more like shopping malls, with numerous competitive food dealerships. Mexican airports seem more like older American airports, with a small group of people controlling food and drinks at about double street prices.

22 pesos is about a buck sixty.
heather
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June 30th, 2012 at 7:21:27 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think the smallest airport that I ever was in was in Uruapan. I was there around 1999 when they had a crash minutes after take-off.



For me it was Trat, in Thailand:


Quote: pacomartin

22 pesos is about a buck sixty.



Hey, I did better than I thought. That exchange rate does seem to bounce around a bit, doesn't it? As late as 2009 I was meeting Mexicans who still converted the peso at MN10.00/US1.00, which is easy to do in your head but a terrible deal if they're wanting payment in USD. (Actual exchange rate at the time was about MN7.69/US1.00)
Nareed
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June 30th, 2012 at 7:35:24 AM permalink
Quote: heather

As late as 2009 I was meeting Mexicans who still converted the peso at MN10.00/US1.00, which is easy to do in your head but a terrible deal if they're wanting payment in USD. (Actual exchange rate at the time was about MN7.69/US1.00)



I don't have a history of the exchange rate committed to memory, but it hasn't been that low in a long, long time. By 2009 it was already over 12 per dollar. I remember because it shot up to 14 per shortly before I left on my second Vegas trip in mid-may 2009.
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Nareed
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June 30th, 2012 at 7:44:41 AM permalink
Quote: heather

I got searched and had all my bags searched in front of the check-in desk, then got searched again and had my carry-on searched a second time at the boarding gate.



That's standard at all airports these days.

What I heard s that at the boarding gate passengers are shuttled to terminal A, undergo exit controls, and then are shuttled back to terminal C and the plane. Actually I overheard this while standing in line waiting to board my own flight. It seemed terribly inefficient, considering Viva has been flying to the US from Monterrey for years now.

And I have to winder what happens on arrival, too. Are passengers take to terminal A for passport and customs checks, then again back to terminal C?

That would be a huge time waster.

About small airports, the smallest I know is in Reynosa, Tamaulipas. It doesn't even have a taxi way. The plane scoots up the runway and there's a wide area there for the plane to turn around. At the time there were two scheduled flights per day, one in the morning and one in the evening. The airport closed from the time the morning flight departed until about three hours before the evening flight's scheduled departure
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heather
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June 30th, 2012 at 7:56:14 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I don't have a history of the exchange rate committed to memory, but it hasn't been that low in a long, long time. By 2009 it was already over 12 per dollar. I remember because it shot up to 14 per shortly before I left on my second Vegas trip in mid-may 2009.



Haven't had my coffee yet -- looks like I was doing it backwards in my head. LOL. (I was in the Central Highlands April-June, and again September-November that year.)

Quote: Nareed

What I heard s that at the boarding gate passengers are shuttled to terminal A, undergo exit controls, and then are shuttled back to terminal C and the plane. Actually I overheard this while standing in line waiting to board my own flight. It seemed terribly inefficient, considering Viva has been flying to the US from Monterrey for years now.



It might be different now, but what I went through (several times) was search at the check-in desk, then again at the gate -- no second terminal involved. But I usually left the country through Leon, which has a fairly large airport, and usually very early in the morning, when not many flights were leaving.

Quote: Nareed

And I have to winder what happens on arrival, too. Are passengers take to terminal A for passport and customs checks, then again back to terminal C?



No idea how it works at airports that send you around to different terminals like that, but, in my experience, disembarking in Mexico is much less painful than leaving the country. I always got the green light and it was just, "Welcome to Mexico". For people who got the red light, of course, they got searched. Lots of theories on how "random" the red light/green light system is (hey that might be fun to take odds on), but I tend to feel like the best guess that I've heard is one green light for every nineteen reds. Just my feeling, though, and like I said, business has had me elsewhere for the last two years or so.

People will swear up and down that they know how the red light/green light thing works but I am sure that they're just guessing and working with hunches.
pacomartin
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June 30th, 2012 at 8:01:22 AM permalink
Quote: heather

Hey, I did better than I thought. That exchange rate does seem to bounce around a bit, doesn't it? As late as 2009 I was meeting Mexicans who still converted the peso at MN10.00/US1.00, which is easy to do in your head but a terrible deal if they're wanting payment in USD. (Actual exchange rate at the time was about MN7.69/US1.00)



It really hasn't been MN10.00/US1.00 for almost a decade, but for about 6 years it was close enough that for small purchases you weren't getting ripped off too badly. Near Tijuana they American dollar is widely used in Mexico, as they distrust the peso after the last big collapse in 1994.

But you are confused about the exchange rate in 2009 as you want it to be something bigger than ten to one. It was closer to MN13.00/US1.00 for most of the year (pretty close to where it is now).

Trat is remote, even by standards of Thailand.
heather
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June 30th, 2012 at 8:07:48 AM permalink
Like I said, I was doing it backwards as a result of not being fully awake yet. I meant that US7.69 would buy you MN100 worth of Mexican goods. My apologies.

It does occur to me that the red light/green light thing is something like a casino game. They let you push the button yourself, like rolling the dice in Craps or the "bash button" that some Sic bo tables have. I guess so that it's your fault if you get the red light, although people will still always mutter that it's not really random (and it might not be, for all I know -- I almost certainly don't fit any drug courier profiles).

You're right about Trat (it is near the Cambodian border). The terminals at the Chiang Mai airport looked similar in the 1980s (thatched roofs and less than four walls enclosing the space), but I see that there's a "proper" airport there today.

Edited to add: Back on the subject of exchange rates, on more than a few occasions I have told a Mexican ATM to give me three hundred US dollars worth of Mexican pesos and felt like I'd hit the Royal Flush when the cash came pouring out.
pacomartin
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June 30th, 2012 at 8:57:01 AM permalink
Quote: heather

Edited to add: Back on the subject of exchange rates, on more than a few occasions I have told a Mexican ATM to give me three hundred US dollars worth of Mexican pesos and felt like I'd hit the Royal Flush when the cash came pouring out.



ATM's outside of Vegas in the USA are pretty much standardized on the $20 banknote. Possibly there are higher denominations in NYC. In Mexico you would get a pile of 500 peso notes sometimes, and everything down to 50 peso notes which would stack up into a huge pile.

In UK you get the 20 pound note, which is pretty close to the USA. On the Continent you get the 50 Euro note which seems pretty big at about US$80. I understand that in Australia they mostly give you the AUS$50.


I am not sure what they do in the Nordic countries. Most people pay for things electronically. Sweden is circulating less than US$300 per person in notes that are worth $15 or less, and US$1300 per person in notes that are worth $75 and $150. I read that the Riksbank recommended to parliament that they create a new banknote worth about US$30 which is more convenient for an ATM denomination.
heather
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June 30th, 2012 at 9:03:57 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

ATM's outside of Vegas in the USA are pretty much standardized on the $20 banknote. Possibly there are higher denominations in NYC. In Mexico you would get a pile of 500 peso notes sometimes, and everything down to 50 peso notes which would stack up into a huge pile.



I cannot understate how much I dislike the 500 peso note. Nobody ever wants to break one and smaller shops and street vendors never have change for it.

At the other end of the spectrum, is there a coin smaller than ten centavos? I was probably in Mexico for two weeks before I discovered that anything smaller than a fifty centavo even existed. Stores just tend to round up or down, so it's easy to be fooled into thinking that centavos only exist in theory.
pacomartin
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June 30th, 2012 at 9:22:07 AM permalink
Quote: heather

I cannot understate how much I dislike the 500 peso note. Nobody ever wants to break one and smaller shops and street vendors never have change for it.

At the other end of the spectrum, is there a coin smaller than ten centavos? I was probably in Mexico for two weeks before I discovered that anything smaller than a fifty centavo even existed. Stores just tend to round up or down, so it's easy to be fooled into thinking that centavos only exist in theory.



There was a 5 centavo coin made in 1992 when they were changing over to the new peso. At the time the rate was closer to 3 pesos to $1, so the coin was worth more than the penny. Mexico hasn't made any in 20 years, and I've never seen one in circulation. You rarely see a 10 centavo in circulation, and if the store doesn't have a 20 centavo they will simply short you without explanation. It makes the American continued use of the penny seem particularly stupid.

You must realize that there is not that much currency issued in Mexico. The amount per person is very small compared to US or Canada. Whereas the US is circulating almost $4000 per capita, Mexico is circulating about 6000 pesos per person (or about US$450). Over 2/3 of that money is in Mexico City or Monterrey in the larger denomination notes (500 or 1000 peso notes). The 1000 peso note is very rare.

It's funny that for over 3 decades people have been saying that the USA should stop printing the $1 banknote and switch to a coin. Now the efficiency experts are saying that coins are completely obsolete and should be replaced entirely. Canada issued the Mint Chip Challenge to find new ways to make small purchases. Mexico may change before the USA since the problem of making change is much bigger in Mexico than the USA.
Nareed
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July 2nd, 2012 at 11:24:12 AM permalink
Let's wrap up this rant with the return trip.

Viva operates in monterrey from Terminal C, which is part of the cargo terminal. It's the sole passenger airline at that part of the airport. My flight was scheduled to depart at 18:20. The check-in counter was open by 16:15. I moved past security to the baording gate area by 17:30, as it is advised to be there 30 minutes prior to departure.

Now, Viva had flights scheduled for Cancun and Houston prior to my flight, and to Hermosillo afterwards. I mention this, because the Cancun and Houston fligths were baording around the time I reached the gates. This eman they wouldn't keep to theit shcedule, which gave me the feeling my flight wouldn't either.

I was proven right. My flight didn't begin baording until 18:10, way too late, right? Despite it being clear the fligth would leave late, there was not one word of apology or explanation from the Viva staff, even when questioned directly.

After boarding, the captain claimed the edlay was due to adverse weather in Mex City. That sounds reasonable, given we're in the rain season and there can be some really bad thrunderstorms. Thunder clouds are dangerous to aircraft. But then why were two other earlier fligths traveling nowhere near Mex City delayed as well? Furhter, I noticed the flight to hermosillo wasn't boarding by the time my flight did.

We finally took off around 19:05, and I had one of the worst flights of my life, again. You can read what I wrote about the morning fligth,a s things were about the same coming back in the evening.

Now, delays are a part of travel. But I consider it really bad service if the airline doesn't at least say why there's a delay. In fact, I think the airline should offer a proforma apology, even when the delay is caused by weather or other fators not under its control. But at the very elast there should be an explanation and an estimate for departure time. I got neither until much later.

So I don't care how cheap ti is, I'm not flying Viva again if I can help it.
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buzzpaff
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July 2nd, 2012 at 11:31:17 AM permalink
" So I don't care how cheap ti is, I'm not flying Viva again if I can help it. "

Your wallet may over-rule your common sense.
Nareed
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July 2nd, 2012 at 11:34:37 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Your wallet may over-rule your common sense.



That's very unlikely. Business travel is paid for by the company. I don't care if they pay more <g>

As to my personal travel, Viva's prices and frequencies to Vegas are worse than Voalris'.
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pacomartin
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July 2nd, 2012 at 1:13:21 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

So I don't care how cheap ti is, I'm not flying Viva again if I can help it.



Well a lot of people in Europe will not fly Ryanair, Viva's chief investor. They simply feel that the hassle's are not worth the cost savings.

It does seem as if Viva is shooting hit or miss, making radical changes in their business model and schedule on very short notice. At the same time Volaris is steadily building a huge airline.

Viva made the decision 15 months to upgrade Mexico City from a focus city to a hub city. So now Aeroméxico, Interjet, VivaAerobus, and Volaris are all trying to duke it out over Mexico City airport.

Viva flies from these 5 US destinations, all flights to Monterrey only
Las Vegas - McCarran International Airport
Orlando - Orlando International Airport
Miami - Miami International Airport
Houston - George Bush Intercontinental Airport
San Antonio - San Antonio International Airport

Most Americans are not going to fly this airline unless they have business specifically in Monterrey. There is other Gateway cities you can fly to from these airports. Volaris also flies to Las Vegas and Orlando, Interjet to San Antonio, American Airlines to Miami, and United ti Houston.
Gabes22
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July 2nd, 2012 at 1:31:53 PM permalink
Upon hearing stories like this, I am glad I live within 20 minutes of one of the busiest airports in America (O'Hare). There are plenty of airlines fighting for cheap fares and I have never had to get on a connecting flight...............anywhere. That being said, customer service in the airline industry sucks. It's almost as if they wish they were UPS or FedEx, and truly could treat passengers like cargo.
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pacomartin
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July 2nd, 2012 at 1:45:51 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

Upon hearing stories like this, I am glad I live within 20 minutes of one of the busiest airports in America (O'Hare). There are plenty of airlines fighting for cheap fares and I have never had to get on a connecting flight...............anywhere. That being said, customer service in the airline industry sucks. It's almost as if they wish they were UPS or FedEx, and truly could treat passengers like cargo.



I have talked about this before. But after two decades of spectacular growth in airline industry in the USA (1980-2000) there is no growth . Now you can blame it on the twin peaks of 9-11 and "the recession", but I think it is indicative of a bigger issue. This business may not grow even up to the normal population growth. All those plans to spend billions of dollars on improvements at airports. Will they all come to naught?


Year Total Passenger Year Total Passenger Year Total Passenger
2010 713,580,637 2000 710,299,349 1990 499,070,998
2009 698,003,028 1999 684,163,592 1989 485,308,863
2008 736,470,443 1998 656,688,855 1988 483,089,503
2007 763,513,050 1997 641,563,706 1987 475,822,333
2006 739,308,556 1996 621,613,161 1986 442,411,811
2005 737,186,789 1995 586,326,851 1985 405,562,334
2004 706,424,048 1994 573,575,959 1984 368,437,759
2003 651,728,887 1993 528,920,496 1983 339,343,448
2002 644,594,329 1992 514,051,065 1982 309,517,088
2001 661,069,429 1991 488,666,536 1981 294,851,280
1980 310,401,357



The 2011 numbers should be released in a few weeks
Nareed
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July 2nd, 2012 at 1:47:55 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

It does seem as if Viva is shooting hit or miss, making radical changes in their business model and schedule on very short notice.



I think the delays were incompetence or incapacity on Viva's part.

Upon arriving at Mex City my priorities were to have a cigarette and get a cab back home. If I hadn't been rushed, I'd have glanced at teh arrivals baord and looked for a raft of delayed flights from other cities. Better yet, at other arrivals from Monterrey.

Quote:

At the same time Volaris is steadily building a huge airline.



The 800 lbs gorilla in the low cost sector is Interjet. Largely becasue they incorporated Mex City's airport in their routes earlier than the competition.

On the other hand, Volaris and Viva took an earlier jump for service to the US. But Viva started with a regional focus on Texas for some reason, flying to Austin (!) and Houston. Volaris took up LA, San Diego, Oaklnad/SF, Fresno (!) and Chicago (large Mexican population in Chicago). Later adding Vegas and recently Orlando.

Quote:

So now Aeroméxico, Interjet, VivaAerobus, and Volaris are all trying to duke it out over Mexico City airport.



It was to be expected. Interjet and Volaris, along with one of Mexicana's subsidiaries and the casualties, made big deal out fo Toluca. It was good marketing. They promoted the hell out of Toluca, rather than admiting "We can't get slots in Mexico City!"

Actually Toluca is a perfectly reasonable secondary airport for Mex City, but it suffers from expensive transportation from the city, and very bad traffic at the city's entrance from the highway.
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Gabes22
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July 2nd, 2012 at 1:52:18 PM permalink
I would say this with the airline industry. I feel nickel and dimed everytime I fly. I have to purchase my ticket in advance, when I get to the airport, I have to pay to check my bag, I then on the plane have to pay for my meal, both of those used to be regularly free. I would not mind paying $40-$50 more each way for a ticket if I didn't have to pay to check my bag at the airport or pay for a meal on the flight. Now this runs about $35 on the airline I fly ($25 for the bag $10 for the meal) but I would pay the added premium just not to feel nickel and dimed and have to due 3 or 4 transactions every time I fly.
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Nareed
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July 2nd, 2012 at 2:14:50 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Now you can blame it on the twin peaks of 9-11 and "the recession", but I think it is indicative of a bigger issue.



This is what's so often frustrating about your posts: what bigger issue? Market saturation? Transportation alternatives, such as email or Skype?

Quote:

All those plans to spend billions of dollars on improvements at airports. Will they all come to naught?



Not all. Some airports surely are over-saturated with passengers loads as they are now. they should benefit from improvements. Mex City's airport, for exmaple, has benefited from the addition of a second terminal.
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slyther
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July 2nd, 2012 at 2:34:59 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

I would say this with the airline industry. I feel nickel and dimed everytime I fly. I have to purchase my ticket in advance, when I get to the airport, I have to pay to check my bag, I then on the plane have to pay for my meal, both of those used to be regularly free. I would not mind paying $40-$50 more each way for a ticket if I didn't have to pay to check my bag at the airport or pay for a meal on the flight. Now this runs about $35 on the airline I fly ($25 for the bag $10 for the meal) but I would pay the added premium just not to feel nickel and dimed and have to due 3 or 4 transactions every time I fly.



But do you like resort fees? :)
Gabes22
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July 2nd, 2012 at 3:07:31 PM permalink
LOL Slyther. No I do not like resort fees. Mostly because it is just an add on to the bill for crap I never utilize. I hate being nickel and dimed everywhere I go. I think you could customize it, but if they added $40 per ticket and in turn you received a meal, a checked bag, a pillow and maybe 1 alcoholic beverage with your meal, I think there would be more than a few people who would jump at that instead of paying x for the bag, y for the meal, z for the pillow and a for the beverage.
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pacomartin
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July 2nd, 2012 at 6:28:57 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

This is what's so often frustrating about your posts: what bigger issue? Market saturation? Transportation alternatives, such as email or Skype?
Not all. Some airports surely are over-saturated with passengers loads as they are now. they should benefit from improvements. Mex City's airport, for exmaple, has benefited from the addition of a second terminal.



  • FAA Aerospace Forecast Fiscal Years 2001-2012 released in 2001 predicted annual U.S. passenger levels to read one billion by 2010.
  • FAA Aerospace Forecast Fiscal Years 2011-2031 released in 2011 predicted annual US passenger levels to reach one billion by 2021, two years earlier than last year’s prediction of 2023.

    In ten years, the forecast just adjusts itself by ten years.

    It is not market saturation. Most economic models show that if you reduce price enough, you can virtually grow air travel to an undetermined size. If the price is too high, they forego their trip or they drive.

    This point is very important. As you may know San Diego county has one primary airport, and it's the only major airport in the USA with a single runway. Eventually it is going to get congested. Now San Diego County's GDP in 2009 was $171.4 billion.

    The cost of replacing the airport makes it the most expensive capital improvement project in the entire country. A natural reaction is, the County is only 3 million people. Once the airport can't take any more planes, simply raise the prices a little to cut off demand. There was one study that said those price increases would cost the San Diego County economy $93 billion per year (over half the current level). A friend of mine, who is an economist at the local airport said that is utterly ridiculous. It just means ticket prices will go up a little. The daily costs of moving the airport 100 miles into the desert will be much worse.

    I think the airline industry has figured out that it can keep profits high by nickle and dime-ing everyone, and reducing creature comforts. Old airlines will be retired early since they are not fuel efficient. Another valuable tactic is consolidation and reduction of competition.

    These predictions by the FAA that we will return to growth patterns of 1980-2000 and double in 20 years I don't think are founded on what the airlines want. Their exposure is too sever with the capital investment that will be required.

    Mexico, on the other hand, has small enough air traffic that I think that it can easily double in 20 years.



    I also think that a mainstay of the airline business, the meet and greet business meeting will be replaced with virtual communication including holograms. A lot of businesses will make flesh and blood travel an expensive luxury.
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July 2nd, 2012 at 7:54:55 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

In ten years, the forecast just adjusts itself by ten years.



And fifty years ago we should have had fusion in fifty years.

Anyway, government estimates are usually off, by a lot. The FAA in addition has a vested interest in forecasting more traffic. It means a bigger budget.

Quote:

The cost of replacing the airport makes it the most expensive capital improvement project in the entire country.



How about using Tijuana for a complementary airport?
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