Beyond Counting (original version) for sale

I just found and bought a copy of Beyond Counting at a used book store here in Vegas today for $15. Hopefully the Mitt Romney fans on the forum will cast no stones at me as I now try to resell it for $500. I already have my own copy. It is in nice condition. Probably just perused once and never touched again.

In setting the price, I did a search on closed auctions for the book on eBay. I found two only. On 11/13/14 an auction closed for $650. However, on 12/14/14 somebody offered it for 350 GBP (apx $533), but there were no takers.

I want to emphasize that this is Grosjean's first book, not the larger Beyond Counting -- Exhibit CAA.

I'll also accept offers of $400 or more. Otherwise, it is going on eBay.

I'm surprised the bookstore didn't recognize the potential value. Was it more of a second hand store, than a bookstore? Are you sure it is a first edition? Maybe you should take it to Gold and Silver Pawn and try to get on "Pawn Stars". I think it would be an interesting segment, and you might get to meet their book expert, Rebecca Romney (the one on the right)

Quote: Ayecarumba

I'm surprised the bookstore didn't recognize the potential value. Was it more of a second hand store, than a bookstore? Are you sure it is a first edition? Maybe you should take it to Gold and Silver Pawn and try to get on "Pawn Stars".

I'm just saying it is the first version out of two. As far as I know, each had one printing only. The value comes not in the age but that so few were printed. I definitely don't think it is Pawn Stars worthy since it is only worth $500 and copyrighted in 2000.

The bookstore went off the $39.95 price off the back. They normally charge half, and on top of that they are running a 25% holiday sale. Like I said, a small number were printed and at the time not so many people heard of Grosjean. I bought my copy at face value off the shelf at Huntington Press years ago. With the second version you had to be approved by the author to buy it, and he didn't give such approval easily.

I bought it at Amber Unicorn Books. They had the biggest selection of used gambling books I've ever seen. Including my book! Highly recommend if you're looking for an obscure out of print gambling book.

Whenever I'm looking through used books at library sales, in the back of my mind, I wonder if I might come across Beyond Counting. Do you know the reason why Grosjean would care who bought the revised, larger edition?

Quote: Greasyjohn

Whenever I'm looking through used books at library sales, in the back of my mind, I wonder if I might come across Beyond Counting. Do you know the reason why Grosjean would care who bought the revised, larger edition?

He wanted to keep it out of the hands of the enemy, meaning casino management.

I'm the same way with license plates at garage sales. Hoping some old-timer will get rid of a nice box of old Nevada plates going back to 1915.

If you put it on Ebay, what is the strategy?
Start at a penny and let the market determine the price.
or
Start at 20% over what you value it at and see if anybody bites.

When I sell on ebay, I generally start at a penny, offer free shipping, and let the market determine the price.
Lately its been video games for me, I buy, I get tired of game, sell on ebay.
The price I get is always more then what the local Gamestop store is willing to pay me for a game.

Quote: terapined

If you put it on Ebay, what is the strategy?

I'll start at a penny and let the market determine the price. The question is on putting in a secret reserve.

When I search on ebay, I go to the advanced search and filter out anything with zero bids. That way I don't waste time looking at overpriced stuff and can concentrate on true auctions. I was complaining in this thread recently about people who put POS unicycles on eBay at prices that are about 10x too high. Here is a good example. Note this similar unicycle at 7% the price.

Quote: Wizard

an obscure out of print gambling book.

you mean your book? j/k!!

[wow I can be such a smartass, sorry!]

I used to sell many things on ebay and I always started at $0.01. I also think I've always received within about 10% of what I was expecting. Going this route gets more interest and generally higher prices. I also found that a 3 day auction is just as good as a 10 day auction. My preference would be using 1 day auctions, but with a high value item that doesn't have a huge market, maybe a longer auction is better. As for reserves, I hate them; if you won't take less than x, then start the auction at x. If I bid only to find out there is a reserve, I quit bidding.

When I buy, I almost always use buy it now because I can usually find a better deal than bidding without having to watch a bunch of auctions. When I do bid, I wait until the last 20 seconds or so and bid the minimum plus $0.26. That way, if other bidders make the minimum bid at the last second, mine will out bid them without time to react.

Quote: CrystalMath

When I buy, I almost always use buy it now because I can usually find a better deal than bidding without having to watch a bunch of auctions. When I do bid, I wait until the last 20 seconds or so and bid the minimum plus $0.26. That way, if other bidders make the minimum bid at the last second, mine will out bid them without time to react.

My ebay handle is secondagain, because I was tired of always coming in second on auctions. I got outbid often at the last second, or had the price run way up on me if I did win. Now I used a sniper service and am very glad I do. It has probably saved me at least $1,000 because bidding early just induces more demand for the item and competition.

Quote: Wizard

I'll start at a penny and let the market determine the price. The question is on putting in a secret reserve.

When I search on ebay, I go to the advanced search and filter out anything with zero bids. That way I don't waste time looking at overpriced stuff and can concentrate on true auctions. I was complaining in this thread recently about people who put POS unicycles on eBay at prices that are about 10x too high. Here is a good example. Note this similar unicycle at 7% the price.

I see a ton of over priced stuff on ebay.
I am a huge fan of the hi-md minidisc machines and blank 1gb minidiscs that are no longer manufactured.
So much of this stuff is over priced on ebay.
Sometimes somebody will do a true auction on blank 1gb hi-md mini-discs and the ending price is about 20 to 25 bucks a blank disc.
20 to 25 bucks is the market price.
There are a bunch on ebay right now for 30 dollars and above. Back when they were manufactured they were just 5 bucks a disc.
I see so much over priced stuff on ebay :-(
People put up tons of overpriced stuff and see if anybody bites.
I see one hi-md mini-disc machine for 5k.
No bids of course but tons of people watching to see if anybody bites at the outrageous price

Best strategy is start at a penny with a reserve if you want to sell but not too cheap.

The few times I won an auction at a really good price, I got an email saying the item was listed in error(Obviously a lie).

I Haven't sold anything on ebay.

Now I filter everything to buy it now only.

There is a book seller from New Jersey that lists everything way overpriced. It must be working because they keep doing it.
Books that you can buy for $10 or less are listed at $100 or more.

Several years back, I bought a set of poker chips off Ebay. There were several listings for the exact same set, some were auctions, and some were "Buy It Now" listings. I was amazed that the winning bids were usually higher than the Buy It Now price for the identical item! People are cuckoo for auctions!

Quote: Wizard

I definitely don't think it is Pawn Stars worthy since it is only worth $500 and copyrighted in 2000.

I dunno, it seems like the items on their show don't necessarily have to be old or expensive. They just have to have a 'story.' I definitely think the book has a 'story.' Might be worth a shot... I'd certainly tune in to that episode!

Quote: Joeman

I dunno, it seems like the items on their show don't necessarily have to be old or expensive. They just have to have a 'story.' I definitely think the book has a 'story.' Might be worth a shot... I'd certainly tune in to that episode!

Good point.

I've had somebody offer $400. Will anybody bid $425?

Quote: Joeman

Several years back, I bought a set of poker chips off Ebay. There were several listings for the exact same set, some were auctions, and some were "Buy It Now" listings. I was amazed that the winning bids were usually higher than the Buy It Now price for the identical item! People are cuckoo for auctions!

Years ago we used to go to a country auction. I think they used to buy out Sears and JC Penny store returns, and merchandise that was being discontinued. The auction ran once a month, and one we realized what they were selling, we used to take catalogs with us to look the items up. All I can say is "People make a bid, and then they get stupid." Once they have made a bid, they lose all reasoning and just want to win the bid. I can't tell you how many times I saw people pay 150% for a returned item that may have had something wrong with it, when they could have got the real thing from the store for less than they bid.

Another thing that was dumb was the lot bids. They would auction off 15 hammers, at a per hammer price. Winning bidder would get to pick how many they wanted, and any remaining hammers would be offered to the last losing bidder at the winning bid price, and so on, until all the hammers were gone. You would see it get down to 2 people, at a bid of $5, and they would keep bidding each other up, until it was $15. IDIOTS. There was no way the winner was taking all 15 hammers, so dipstick loser now paid $15, instead of the $5 he could have had.

They always started the auction at some high price, and then would keep dropping until someone bid, usually some really insanely low amount. Then there would be a flurry of 15 people all bidding to get into the action, and up the price would go. And, once people start bidding, they don't want to drop out.
My strategy was to bid before the price got too low. So if I thought $100 was a good price to win at, I would bid around $60 to $70. If I got lucky, I would get it right there, but if it was too interesting, it would go over $100, and I would drop out. I won a lot of my bids.

We were there one night and they were auctioning off a snow thrower for the front of a Craftsman lawn tractor. It just happened to be the tractor I had (I lived in northern PA and needed a thrower). It was a return, but they thought most of the hardware was there. $750 was the catalog price. It went all the way down to $20 before the first bid was entered, but then 10 people got in on the bidding. I dropped out at $150, and it ended up selling over $250. On the way home, I was kicking myself for having missed out on a good deal. Next month, wouldn't you know they have another snow thrower, but this one is still in the original shipping crate. It is brand new!. They open the bidding, and start dropping it. At the $100 mark I bid $75 and opened the auction. Not another person bid! I got the damn thing brand new for $75. I am positive if I had let it get down to $20, the final bid would have been back in the $200 range.
Ah the good ole days................

Quote: RaleighCraps

At the $100 mark I bid $75 and opened the auction. Not another person bid! I got the damn thing brand new for $75. ...

I'm a veteran of a hundred auctions. The only
weapon you have is knowledge of actual value.
It's a pissing contest, you have to keep a cool
head to prevail. Never let your ego overload
your wallet. It's gambling, and has a similar
rush. The stories I could tell..

Quote: Wizard

He wanted to keep it out of the hands of the enemy, meaning casino management.

No, that's some BS he made up after he found out it wasn't selling. Both times he sold copies to anybody initially.

The limited print run was an attempt to save his reputation, by only selling to his friends. This way, the only people who read it would write glowing reviews. These are also the same people who stood to make a significant profit selling it on. They have a vested interest in hyping it.

"I've had somebody offer $400. Will anybody bid $425?"

Honestly, this is so pathetic. You are a millionaire trying to screw an extra $25 out of a mark.

Someone participating in an auction is a Mark?

Quote: Trenton

No, that's some BS he made up after he found out it wasn't selling. Both times he sold copies to anybody initially.

The limited print run was an attempt to save his reputation, by only selling to his friends. This way, the only people who read it would write glowing reviews. These are also the same people who stood to make a significant profit selling it on. They have a vested interest in hyping it.

If you have something supporting this type of stuff, lets hear it, some are interested.

But why attack someone for auctioning off something?

It's a business transaction.

I'm sure he has given more than $25 to charities so its probably not about the $25.

I'm assuming the mods will not react kindly, but I think you know that.

Trenton is banned, nuclear option; previously banned duplicate ID.

Quote: AxelWolf

I'm sure he has given more than $25 to charities so its probably not about the $25.

My standard response to what to get the person with everything is a deal.

Charities and tipping is a whole other bit of murkiness.


Add on. As for the book(s), find a good university gaming section near you. Best to figure as you go, then you won't be lead down years of bookishness.

BTW, the book has been sold to a forum member for $400.

Quote: AxelWolf

If you have something supporting this type of stuff, lets hear it, some are interested.

But why attack someone for auctioning off something?

It's a business transaction.

I'm sure he has given more than $25 to charities so its probably not about the $25.

I'm assuming the mods will not react kindly, but I think you know that.

I don't have much more to say. The book was sold to anybody initially-any one who purchase a copy early on can confirm that, its a matter of public record.

I didn't attack any one. I said that a millionaire haggling over $25 is pathetic. I meant that in the truest sense of the word, it is pitiful. If I was going to attack Shackleford it would be about whoring himself out as a casino consultant.

Quote: Trenton1

I don't have much more to say. The book was sold to anybody initially-any one who purchase a copy early on can confirm that, its a matter of public record.

I didn't attack any one. I said that a millionaire haggling over $25 is pathetic. I meant that in the truest sense of the word, it is pitiful. If I was going to attack Shackleford it would be about whoring himself out as a casino consultant.

So you think Grosjean neeed to pump up his book so he could make money from the sale of it.
That's laughable. Do you realize how little money you make from selling books. If it was about the money why didn't he just print more copies? His first book was sold to anyone. Exhibit Caa did get sold to casino employees no doubt. However many buyers were screened and had their money returned when it was determined they were casino side or unknown to other Aps.

Quote: Trenton1

I don't have much more to say. The book was sold to anybody initially-any one who purchase a copy early on can confirm that, its a matter of public record.

I didn't attack any one. I said that a millionaire haggling over $25 is pathetic. I meant that in the truest sense of the word, it is pitiful. If I was going to attack Shackleford it would be about whoring himself out as a casino consultant.

What's pathetic is making a second account to repeat your attack. And it was an attack initially, whether you say it was or not.

Wiz is a business man, and after you pay the tax man and think about 2 kids in private school and college in the future, he's still got to make a buck (or 25 of them) after the sale of WOO.

I know Mike doesn't need me to defend him, but anyway. Moving on.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Wiz is a business man, and after you pay the tax man and think about 2 kids in private school and college in the future, he's still got to make a buck (or 25 of them) after the sale of WOO.

Totally agree, you sell items at market value regardless of your financial position.
Also, anybody that has 2 mil, you dont keep 2 mil under the mattress.
You dont even keep 2 mil in a saving account.
You invest it.
Just about all millionaires just cant come up with tons of cash instantly, its all tied up in assets that take time to sell.
400 or 425 probabbly comes in handy.
If the Wiz is smart, as we all know he is,
probabbly is liquidated to the point of being able to pay the bills and the rest in investments.

Quote: terapined

Totally agree, you sell items at market value regardless of your financial position.
Also, anybody that has 2 mil, you dont keep 2 mil under the mattress.

I subscribed to the movie "The Gambler". The ****-you moment stuff when you know that you're paid up for the next 25 years. The kids may do the same, as sink or swim. Live life. Free up your mind.

It's the guys who keep investing with the higher costs of living who don't really get anywhere because they aren't doing it for the right reasons. It shouldn't be the more you have the more you want because it's not working out in practice.

The best part of such is that it applies also to an outlook of immortality. Be your own man.