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BigTip
BigTip
Joined: May 25, 2010
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September 9th, 2010 at 5:04:20 PM permalink
Holy Cow! Five pages of intelligent discussion that involves government policy and nobody has called anybody a dumbass or cast aspersions on anyone! Terribly refreshing and I mean that sincerely.

Rights are man made rules and laws. In some primitive societies it was okay to murder people for certain reasons. Nobody had the right to not be murdered until society granted them that right.
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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September 9th, 2010 at 7:16:01 PM permalink
Quote: BigTip

In some primitive societies it was okay to murder people for certain reasons. Nobody had the right to not be murdered until society granted them that right.



I don't think it is safe to say "was" yet, but let's not change the topic.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 9th, 2010 at 8:16:37 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

As a side note, mkl, a day or maybe two ago, in one of these threads, I posted a comment to the effect that sometimes I disagree so strongly with both your input and your attitude that I think you are a troll and then you say something else that is very well presented and with which I agree wholeheartedly. I'm still not sure what to think of that, but the phenomena are continuing. I think you and I might actually have some interesting one-on-one discussions (and violence-free ones), if the opportunity ever arose.



At least you realize--unlike so many internet kiddies--that "I disagree with you" doesn't equate to "you are a troll"; neither does "I don't like the way you say things".

Conjugation: I enjoy engaging in stimulating debate; you are argumentative; he's a troll.

I have the same somewhat lukewarm reaction as I had many years ago when someone came up to me and said, "You know, you're not an asshole after all." I, uh, thanked him. And I do feel the same dubious gratitude at being called maybe-not-a-troll, as well as the acknowledgement of the possibility that it might be possible for you and I to carry on a conversation. Sort of like a pretty girl telling you, "In theory, I might be willing to go out with you someday, because you might not be the jerk I thought you were." Nonetheless, I accept your semi-compliment in the spirit in which it was offered.

All the above notwithstanding, I DO, in fact, post for NO OTHER REASON than to annoy people and start arguments with them, and any cogent reasoning or logic that leaks through my torrents of vitriol is merely coincidental.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 9th, 2010 at 8:17:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't think it is safe to say "was" yet, but let's not change the topic.



Yes, in medieval Nevada (1932-present) a person could be murdered for counting cards.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 9th, 2010 at 8:20:46 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

No one has a right to free health care because there's no such thing. Unless you suggest medicines, hospitals and doctors don't cost anything.

At a Vegas casino you're not charged for drinks. Not directly. But if you believe you're getting them free, you've no idea how a casino works.



That's a kind of silly argument. We get free education. It also costs money.

Obviously, "free" in this context refers to the recipient. And in a framework of socialized medicine, such as Denmark, it isn't free per se--it is paid for by taxes, collected from everyone, including the recipients of that health care. Do they have a RIGHT to that health care? Absolutely--by contract.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
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September 9th, 2010 at 8:25:39 PM permalink
Quote: BigTip

Holy Cow! Five pages of intelligent discussion that involves government policy and nobody has called anybody a dumbass or cast aspersions on anyone! Terribly refreshing and I mean that sincerely.

Rights are man made rules and laws. In some primitive societies it was okay to murder people for certain reasons. Nobody had the right to not be murdered until society granted them that right.



Actually:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Still a radical concept, that some human rights transcend the permissions or prohibitions of governments, but a valid idea nonetheless. I do see it disappearing under the smothering weight of an increasingly intrusive government that "knows what is best for us", and I foresee in the not too distant future, persons being carted off to reeducation camps and mind-wiped for quoting the above passage. Hopefully, I'll be dead by then.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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January 9th, 2011 at 9:27:24 PM permalink
Quote: Aussie

I would find it very hard to believe that greater prevalence of guns equates to lower instances of gun violence.



Look it up, the evidence is absolutely overwhelming. Its been proven again and again that when a state passes a law that allows citizens to carry guns, gun violence plummets.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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January 9th, 2011 at 9:30:30 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Only ONE stat matters. Only ONE! How many gun owners are there in the US and what percentage hurt themselves with their own guns? Its incredibly small, get over your bad selves already.



52 million households in the US have 260 million guns. Less than 1% have gun accidents. My god, its an epidemic! 3 times more people die in falls in the home than by guns. Twice as many choke to death. We need to ban eating at home!
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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January 9th, 2011 at 9:34:06 PM permalink
This thread was getting too overheated, so I moved most of the posts here Guns, homicides, and Sarah Palin -- Discuss (FSZ). I think I missed some of the posts above. Please don't respond to them here, but take it to the thread in the FSZ.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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