Eliminate the Penny
There is absolutely no rational reason for the penny to be used any more. It needs to be eliminated. The nickel too. It is silly to break the dollar into hundredths. There should be three coins used: one-tenth of a dollar, one-half of a dollar, and a dollar coin. And there should be no more than four paper bills being used ($5, $20, $100 and $500). Most of us would be better off and none of us would be worse off. If a bill comes to $17.02 I don't want to have to carry around a bunch of trivial trinkets, nor do I want to negotiate the seller taking off an insignificant amount. The irony is that by keeping the worthless coins going out of a sense of tradition we are pushing ourselves to a cashless society much faster because no one wants to deal with the most wasteful crap that comes with it.
Quote: GWAEI absolutely hate how canada has a 1 and 2 dollar coin. Get rid of the penny but don't replace it with more coins.
I hate how $1 US bills are generally tattered and, for the most part, disgusting.
Quote: MBI hate how $1 US bills are generally tattered and, for the most part, disgusting.
lol fresh bills are a pain too, they stick together like crazy
I've actually had people decline fresh money because they thought it had to be fake
Just out of curiosity, when Canada, Australia, and New Zealand eliminated the penny, what happened to them?
Quote: WizardI agree 100% with the OP. The only people keeping the penny around are (or is it "is"?) the tin lobby.
Just out of curiosity, when Canada, Australia, and New Zealand eliminated the penny, what happened to them?
But when Trump is elected and he replaces all the dollars with Trumps, wouldn't we still need coins, and wouldn't it be fitting to call them "Pence"?
I can give you an earlier de facto example--I traveled in Europe before the euro conversion. In Austria, the schilling was the basic unit of currency, and the groschen was the fractional denomination coin. A schilling, when I was there, was only worth about six cents, so the 1, 2, 5, 10, etc. groschen coins weren't worth keeping around--the 50 groschen (1/2 schilling) coin was the only one anyone used. I noticed that merchants everywhere weren't using groschen coins at all, just rounding up or down to the nearest schilling. That would be equivalent to having the nickel be the smallest unit of our currency in circulation.
I think that might be the same as cashiers in stores just keeping a little dish of pennies by the register and using them to round up or down. Ultimately, it'll come down to custom, not government fiat, that determines whether the penny goes out of circulation. The trouble is, all those pennies are somewhere, and I think that somewhere is in a LOT of glass jars in someone's attic. The government should offer to redeem and then melt down all those pennies, with a deadline of, say, Jan 1 2018, after which the penny would not be legal tender.
The only way this would happen on the government level would be for Obama to make an impassioned speech saying how much he loved the penny and wanted to keep it around. Republicans would then immediately draw up a bill mandating the destruction of all pennies.
If something is $16.43 maybe you should give the person 22$ instead of 20, confuses the hell out of some cashiers though, I tell them "just type 22 in the register and you'll see"
as of 2014, supposedly the public still wants the penny, but just barely
http://www.moneycrashers.com/get-rid-penny-reasons/
Obama has mentioned being in favor of eliminating it
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/obama-open-to-getting-rid-of-the-penny/
I think the Wizard is right, the problem is lobbyists as much as anything, although I think it is zinc, not tin, that is used mostly now
http://fortune.com/2012/04/11/dont-mess-with-the-penny-lobby/
Quote: AxelWolfOf course everyone will get screwed if they eliminate the penny(a chance I will gladly take) there goes all the 99 cent store's. No more 99 cent super big gulps.
Aren't they all Dollar Stores now anyway? I don't remember the last time I saw a 99¢ store.
The only point I disagree with in the OP is that I don't think prices ending in .01, .02, .06, and .07 will round down. Since stores generally set their own prices, I think they'll all round up.
I've read there are hoarders out there who have tens of thousands of pre-1980 pennies just waiting for the penny to be discontinued so they can legally melt them down for much higher than face value.
Don't think I'll go to that trouble.
Quote: odiousgambitI think the Wizard is right, the problem is lobbyists as much as anything, although I think it is zinc, not tin, that is used mostly now
D'oh! You're right. I'm embarrassed at that one. I owe you 25 push-ups.
Quote: odiousgambit
Obama has mentioned being in favor of eliminating it /
Well, that dooms that idea. It will be called just another effort by that no-good black socialist liberal Muslim to destroy our economy.
I think the Wizard is right, the problem is lobbyists as much as anything, although I think it is zinc, not tin, that is used mostly now
Quote: WizardD'oh! You're right. I'm embarrassed at that one. I owe you 25 push-ups.
He will take cash instead. You probably enjoy push ups, so chastising yourself with push ups would be like me saying I have to drink a shot of Captain if I lose or mess up.
Next time I have to correct Roams spelling he has to go find some hookers and blow. That will teach him!
Quote: JoeshlabotnikBut when Trump is elected and he replaces all the dollars with Trumps, wouldn't we still need coins, and wouldn't it be fitting to call them "Pence"?
I can give you an earlier de facto example--I traveled in Europe before the euro conversion. In Austria, the schilling was the basic unit of currency, and the groschen was the fractional denomination coin. A schilling, when I was there, was only worth about six cents, so the 1, 2, 5, 10, etc. groschen coins weren't worth keeping around--the 50 groschen (1/2 schilling) coin was the only one anyone used. I noticed that merchants everywhere weren't using groschen coins at all, just rounding up or down to the nearest schilling. That would be equivalent to having the nickel be the smallest unit of our currency in circulation.
I think that might be the same as cashiers in stores just keeping a little dish of pennies by the register and using them to round up or down. Ultimately, it'll come down to custom, not government fiat, that determines whether the penny goes out of circulation. The trouble is, all those pennies are somewhere, and I think that somewhere is in a LOT of glass jars in someone's attic. The government should offer to redeem and then melt down all those pennies, with a deadline of, say, Jan 1 2018, after which the penny would not be legal tender.
The only way this would happen on the government level would be for Obama to make an impassioned speech saying how much he loved the penny and wanted to keep it around. Republicans would then immediately draw up a bill mandating the destruction of all pennies.
TL/DNR
Quote: billryanNuclear bombs and the 101st Airborne are all the backing our currency needs.
That's a breathtakingly dumb thing to say.
In point of fact, the dollar does not HAVE any backing, meaning that federal currency cannot be exchanged for something else of equal value (as it could have, at least in theory, before we went off the gold standard). It is, like almost all modern currencies, "fiat money." "Fiat" means "let there be." In other words, the dollar is worth what everybody thinks it is; it has no intrinsic value.
And one way we could make the dollar's valuation plummet is by tossing around rhetoric about invading and dropping nuclear weapons on other countries. If we behave like Trumpish bullies, the world will neither treat nor trade with us, meaning no one will want our dollars in exchange for their goods. Bellicose, childish rhetoric may appeal to the playground bully persona of the Orange Orangutan and his followers, but it's anything but constructive.
Would you rather have the world's strongest military at your back or a piece of rock?
The gold standard is gone forever, and should have been gone about the time the last dodo departed.
What is the intrinsic value ofgold? Can you eat it? Does it grow? Does it provide shelter?
It's only worth what someone will trade for it? Just like our currency.
in the case of gold, there's too much speculation
has anybody notified Pacomartin about this discussion?
Quote: billryanOur currency is backed by the full faith of our Government, which is supported by the world's strongest military.
Would you rather have the world's strongest military at your back or a piece of rock?
The gold standard is gone forever, and should have been gone about the time the last dodo departed.
What is the intrinsic value ofgold? Can you eat it? Does it grow? Does it provide shelter?
It's only worth what someone will trade for it? Just like our currency.
Ha! The full faith of the government, in other words, trust me. And while it's had the full faith of the government, a candy bar that used to cost 15-cents now costs $1.40.
Here's the deal, though, Einstein. There is a finite amount of gold, its scarcity is part of what makes it valueable. If you tie the dollar to gold, (on demand), then the government cannot have a free license to print $20 friggin TRILLION of it and devalue it by doing so. What the government is doing is the same thing a small criminal counterfeiter is doing. No difference. Creating money out of thin air.
God I'm glad I didn't go to school, I might have ended up as brainwashed as you are.
Quote: bobbartop...a candy bar that used to cost 15-cents now costs $1.40.
We got 10 for $4.35 recently. You've got to shop around!
Quote: AxelWolfOf course everyone will get screwed if they eliminate the penny(a chance I will gladly take) there goes all the 99 cent store's. No more 99 cent super big gulps.
Price still can have penny denomination, and tax still can be in multiple decimal places. For example, 7.545% sale tax, or $1.959/gal, or $1.68/lb of apple. What really matters is the final rounded sum at the cash register.
The elimination of penny may not hurt zinc supplier that much if only small part of their business depends on the production of penny. One entity could be hurt greatly by the elimination of penny is CoinStar manufacturer. You could short CoinStar stock (if it is publicly traded) because it highly depends on consumers to exchange pennies for cash, gift cards or other bartering transactions (CoinStar accepts all coin denominations -- penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar, but I think penny is the most popular coin denomination in CoinStar transactions).
On a side note, the private prisons stock fell big upon the announcement of the U.S. is ending private prisons for federal inmates.
Quote: DocSo maybe we should pay cash when we can save a cent or two with a round-down and use a credit card to avoid a round-up?
Don't think I'll go to that trouble.
I think in order to maintain uniformity and consistency and to avoid confusion, all transaction should be rounded to an established federal, state or local standard.
Quote: IbeatyouracesWe got 10 for $4.35 recently. You've got to shop around!
You can google "who said the best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch its currency?" Some quotes attribute it to Keynes, and some attribute it to Lenin. Regardless, you can take all the military might and faith in government that Bill Ryan mentioned and still bring the whole thing to its knees by debauching the currency. It's simple, Bill just doesn't know wtf he's talking about. He should demand a refund on his tuition.
Quote: bobbartopYou can google "who said the best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch its currency?" Some quotes attribute it to Keynes, and some attribute it to Lenin. Regardless, you can take all the military might and faith in government that Bill Ryan mentioned and still bring the whole thing to its knees by debauching the currency. It's simple, Bill just doesn't know wtf he's talking about. He should demand a refund on his tuition.
WTH does this have to do with my deal on candy bars?
Quote: billryanOur currency is backed by the full faith of our Government, which is supported by the world's strongest military.
Would you rather have the world's strongest military at your back or a piece of rock?
The gold standard is gone forever, and should have been gone about the time the last dodo departed.
What is the intrinsic value ofgold? Can you eat it? Does it grow? Does it provide shelter?
It's only worth what someone will trade for it? Just like our currency.
If Trump were to become POTUS, and carries out his plan to use Chapter 11 as a mean to negotiate US debt ...
Who would want to buy US Treasury bonds? And on international trades, who would want to accept US currency as a form of payment?
Quote: billryanOur currency is backed by the full faith of our Government, which is supported by the world's strongest military.
Would you rather have the world's strongest military at your back or a piece of rock?
The gold standard is gone forever, and should have been gone about the time the last dodo departed.
What is the intrinsic value ofgold? Can you eat it? Does it grow? Does it provide shelter?
It's only worth what someone will trade for it? Just like our currency.
"The full faith of our government" isn't supported by our military. It's supported by the way we do or do not keep our promises. Faith and trustworthiness aren't a matter of force. They're a matter of national integrity. As an example, Russia also has a very strong military, but they have proved themselves untrustworthy. It's not a coincidence that the Russian currency, and the Russian economy, are in the tank as a result.
I'm glad you understand that the gold standard no longer applies. Now, do you understand that that means that the U.S. dollar isn't "backed" by anything? You might not realize that the government doesn't guarantee the worth of the dollar, or that it's worth anything, for that matter. That's what "backed" would be, if it applied.
A strong military may appeal to those whose worship force and its use (testosterone!!!!), but there's no correlation between military force and economic prosperity. Some of the most prosperous countries in the world have no military at all, or a tiny, ceremonial force. Some countries with strong militaries are economic basket cases. It's not about waving your dick around and baring your teeth (or chest, if you're Putin); it's about honoring your commitments and showing integrity.
And by the way, gold has many uses. That's what is meant by intrinsic value. It is highly attractive and decorative. Furthermore, it is one of the most malleable metals on earth, which means it has many industrial uses--think of the very fine gold wire used in computer manufacture. It is largely chemically inert--meaning it reacts with very few other substances, and only under extreme conditions--so it is ideal for medical applications, such as tooth fillings.
Quote: IbeatyouracesWTH does this have to do with my deal on candy bars?
After the Revolution, candy bars will be a delicacy enjoyed only by the Party elite. There will be block captains making sure we do not hide any. Our own children will be encouraged to turn us in upon just a hint of the smell of butterfinger.
Quote: bobbartopHa! The full faith of the government, in other words, trust me. And while it's had the full faith of the government, a candy bar that used to cost 15-cents now costs $1.40.
Here's the deal, though, Einstein. There is a finite amount of gold, its scarcity is part of what makes it valueable. If you tie the dollar to gold, (on demand), then the government cannot have a free license to print $20 friggin TRILLION of it and devalue it by doing so. What the government is doing is the same thing a small criminal counterfeiter is doing. No difference. Creating money out of thin air.
God I'm glad I didn't go to school, I might have ended up as brainwashed as you are.
WARNING. You are in personal insult territory, with the "Einstein " and "brainwashed " pejoratives above. Next infraction will result in suspension. Address the comment, not the person, please. Thank you.
Quote: beachbumbabsWARNING. You are in personal insult territory, with the "Einstein " and "brainwashed " pejoratives above. Next infraction will result in suspension. Address the comment, not the person, please. Thank you.
Fair enough. Thank you for the warning. But where were you when I was being called "stupid" and was unable to defend myself against a forum predator? My only option was to cuddle with my cat and cry on the keyboard.
Quote: DeucekiesThe only point I disagree with in the OP is that I don't think prices ending in .01, .02, .06, and .07 will round down. Since stores generally set their own prices, I think they'll all round up.
I definitely agree that's what most sellers would do with their prices. But we should look at it more as rounding/price increase rather than just rounding. For something that currently costs $19.97, that three cents increase to $20 represents a few months worth of inflation. For someone who buys that with cash, those three pennies are either a nuisance or a jar filler (or both), not anything of value that is being lost.
The zinc effect is definitely real and probably the reason we still have pennies. Which means the people making the decision to keep the penny are doing what will benefit themselves, not their constituents or the country. Which means the decision is wrong. We should overcome this, by either telling the zinc industry to f-off, use their medals in near equal amounts for dollar coins or simply pay them to not mine zinc, similar to farm subsidies. Given how much money is spent printing these coins, many would be better off and no one would be worse off.
Quote: IbeatyouracesWe got 10 for $4.35 recently. You've got to shop around!Quote: bobbartop...a candy bar that used to cost 15-cents now costs $1.40.
BTB shops at bodegas and gas stations, then complains that the government is forcing him to pay too much for junk food.
So weak on the brainwashing.Quote: beachbumbabsWARNING. You are in personal insult territory, with the "Einstein " and "brainwashed " pejoratives above. Next infraction will result in suspension. Address the comment, not the person, please. Thank you.
Quote: TomGBTB shops at bodegas and gas stations, then complains that the government is forcing him to pay too much for junk food.
The value of gasoline has plummeted since I was a child. I can buy seven gallons of gasoline with the dollar I had in my pocket at age 8. Who'da ever thunk, Gasoline, 14-cents a gallon.
Quote: bobbartopThe value of gasoline has plummeted since I was a child. I can buy seven gallons of gasoline with the dollar I had in my pocket at age 8. Who'da ever thunk, Gasoline, 14-cents a gallon.
Unless you are in your eighties, or grew up in Saudi Arabia, you are mistaken, again.
Quote: billryanUnless you are in your eighties, or grew up in Saudi Arabia, you are mistaken, again.
Put me down for 78-81.
Quote: billryanUnless you are in your eighties, or grew up in Saudi Arabia, you are mistaken, again.
I am not mistaken. Not "again", not even once. You are mistaken when saying that I am mistaken "again". So you are mistaken TWICE. You have a monopoly on mistaken.
I was 8 years old in 1964. With the quarter I had in my pocket that I won playing marbles, I could now buy two gallons of gasoline for my 2016 car. Gasoline is MUCH cheaper.
Quote: FacePut me down for 78-81.
swing and a miss
streeeeeeiiiiiike!
Quote: bobbartopI am not mistaken. Not "again", not even once. You are mistaken when saying that I am mistaken "again". So you are mistaken TWICE. You have a monopoly on mistaken.
I was 8 years old in 1964. With the quarter I had in my pocket that I won playing marbles, I could now buy two gallons of gasoline for my 2016 car. Gasoline is MUCH cheaper.
So were you lying in the other thread where you gave you age as being in the forties or are you lying now where you claim you are sixty. In any event, you never saw fourteen cent gasoline.
Quote: bobbartopFair enough. Thank you for the warning. But where were you when I was being called "stupid" and was unable to defend myself against a forum predator? My only option was to cuddle with my cat and cry on the keyboard.
When were you, yourself called "stupid" as opposed to some idea you expressed called stupid or (I saw) dumb? I sincerely missed any instances of the former, really dislike but am required to split that hair each time. Have not seen the line crossed in this thread, but a boatload of toe marks riiiight on it.
Quote: billryanSo were you lying in the other thread where you gave you age as being in the forties or are you lying now where you claim you are sixty. In any event, you never saw fourteen cent gasoline.
I am personally offended by you calling me a liar. You cannot produce a link to where I said I was 40, because I never said I was 40. Guess what, YOU, are mistaken. lol AGAIN!
I will be waiting for you to produce my claim of being 40, Once you tire of that, then I will be waiting for you to apologize for calling me a liar.
But back to the gasoline, as I said, with the quarter that I had in my pocket at age 8, today I could buy two gallons of gasoline with it. Gas is cheap.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhen were you, yourself called "stupid" as opposed to some idea you expressed called stupid or (I saw) dumb?
I forget. I didn't know it was my job to remember. But I've lived through it. Tears on my pillow, a session with my psychiatrist, a new prescription, two pints of Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, and I'm ok now. I embrace my stupidity.
Quote: billryanIn any event, you never saw fourteen cent gasoline.
Ha! I'm seeing it now.
