Corrupt game maker Encore (Black Jack)
1. Dealer hits 21, 9 times out of 10 when said player has 20 (dealer gets 21 whenever player has 21 way to often)!
2. Dealer push hands are unbelievable (repeatedly every playing session)
3. Dealer hits BJ every time player raises their bet.
4. Dealer gets 20 practically 75-80 % of the time.
Quote: rdw4potusSo, then, you have no proof of anything? Publishing a libelous claim is an interesting tactic in that case..
I don't need to prove anything - I'm more interested in warning folks about this game make (Encore). Are you the type that allows cheating in your world?
Quote: WizardCan I see your data to substantiate these accusations?
How can you win if the dealer is a cheater?
Quote: HeySlickQuote: rdw4potusSo, then, you have no proof of anything? Publishing a libelous claim is an interesting tactic in that case..
I don't need to prove anything - I'm more interested in warning folks about this game make (Encore). Are you the type that allows cheating in your world?
Cheating, lying, foolishness...the world would be better off with less of all of these things.
Quote: HeySlickHow can you win if the dealer is a cheater?
You might want to go back to your video gaming forum until you have some proof to back up your claims. Something like thousands of hands of data showing how many times the dealer got 20 or 21.
I'm pretty sure Encore would have no incentive to put out a cheating video game under their hugely successful Hoyle line of games just to take your fake chips.
ZCore13
Quote: rdw4potusCheating, lying, foolishness...the world would be better off with less of all of these things.
I guess we both live in the same world - I just dislike cheaters with a stronger passion than you do.....especially those who lie about it and claim otherwise. How ironic that you wanted some proof about my insinuations - do you actually think those computer programmers would be honest? IMO it's purely a game of chance and the advantage ALWAYS goes to the house - in this case its the computer who wins and the player has no say about it.
Quote: HeySlickHow can you win if the dealer is a cheater?
Well you can start by proving the claim that the dealer is a "cheater" by gathering data that supports your claim. Play at least 10,000 hands and record the number of dealer 21's, blackjack's, etc vs player data. Then you can run the math and see how off the numbers are, which would give you a rightful claim.
There's nothing to warn against if you just played for a few hours each night and lost. That proves nothing.
Quote: HeySlickdo you actually think those computer programmers would be honest?
Yes. Also, duh. The only way the computer programmers benefit is if they put out a fun and accurate game (or, I suppose, one slanted towards the player) that is good enough to become popular. They make money when the game sells, not when the player loses his fake chips...
Quote: VenthusI'm not really sure why anybody would rig entertainment gambling software to favor the computer, unless it's to discourage gambling. If anything, you rig it in favor of the player because winning is more fun than constantly losing. Also gives the side-effect of driving more business to real gambling, by making the player think they're just that good.
In most cases that scenario of yours runs true - IMO there's NO WAY in the real world any Reno casino would survive using the same playing tactics as Encore BJ game maker has employed. NO casino BJ table will ever get 21 9 times out of 10 when the player has 20...period! Also another very irritating hand I get often is whenever I raise my bet the dealer will/pulls a black jack.
Quote: HeySlickI contend this game maker (i.e.,Encore) has programmed the game of Black Jack - therefore deceiving potential buyers into thinking their buying a legitimate game of BJ. I've played this game for hours upon hours and, there's NO doubt whatsoever the powers that be (computer programmers) have corrupted this game. IMO Encore should be forthright and label their games IE these games have been programmed (wishful thinking I suppose). I despise the deception of Encore -- I am determined to inform others about this deceitful game maker of Black Jack (Encore). Here are a few of the issues I have with Encores version of BJ. BTW I got this game as a gift sometime ago so I can't get a refund.
1. Dealer hits 21, 9 times out of 10 when said player has 20 (dealer gets 21 whenever player has 21 way to often)!
2. Dealer push hands are unbelievable (repeatedly every playing session)
3. Dealer hits BJ every time player raises their bet.
4. Dealer gets 20 practically 75-80 % of the time.
First of all I get the impression that English is not your first language, so let me just help you out a bit. Saying that a game is "programmed" is not a bad thing. To create gambling software you have to "program" it. "Programming" is simply the process of writing a computer program. To create a fair blackjack computer game, you would still have to "program" it by writing the computer code. Obviously you are trying to get across the point that the game is rigged, and we all understand that, just helping you out with some terminology here. Some words that might help would be "rigged," "unfair," "biased," "cheating," etc.
Second of all, are you talking about this game, or a similar one?
HOYLE Card Games 2012 from Encore software.
This is NOT a real money game. This is a play-for-fun on your own computer at home game. First of all, why would they have any incentive to program it any way other than fair? They don't win money from you if you lose.
I can understand complaining that it's not realistic, but if you're not losing money and you received the game as a gift, get over it. Play the Wizard's blackjack simulator here: Play Blackjack. It's free and I can guarantee you that it's fair.
Quote: AcesAndEightsFirst of all I get the impression that English is not your first language, so let me just help you out a bit. Saying that a game is "programmed" is not a bad thing. To create gambling software you have to "program" it. "Programming" is simply the process of writing a computer program. To create a fair blackjack computer game, you would still have to "program" it by writing the computer code. Obviously you are trying to get across the point that the game is rigged, and we all understand that, just helping you out with some terminology here. Some words that might help would be "rigged," "unfair," "biased," "cheating," etc.
Second of all, are you talking about this game, or a similar one?
HOYLE Card Games 2012 from Encore software.
This is NOT a real money game. This is a play-for-fun on your own computer at home game. First of all, why would they have any incentive to program it any way other than fair? They don't win money from you if they lose.
I can understand complaining that it's not realistic, but if you're not losing money and you received the game as a gift, get over it. Play the Wizard's blackjack simulator here: Play Blackjack. It's free and I can guarantee you that it's fair.
Nice start ----- I didn't sign up to get help from a pompous individual who thinks they know it all - ponder this little quote below.
"The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all"
- Harry S Truman -
This isn't like some facebook game trying to sell you play chips where they would have incentive to cheat.
Quote: HeySlickI didn't sign up to get help from a pompous individual who thinks they know it all ...
Personal insult. Three-day suspension.
Quote: HeySlickQuote: AcesAndEightsFirst of all I get the impression that English is not your first language, so let me just help you out a bit. Saying that a game is "programmed" is not a bad thing. To create gambling software you have to "program" it. "Programming" is simply the process of writing a computer program. To create a fair blackjack computer game, you would still have to "program" it by writing the computer code. Obviously you are trying to get across the point that the game is rigged, and we all understand that, just helping you out with some terminology here. Some words that might help would be "rigged," "unfair," "biased," "cheating," etc.
Second of all, are you talking about this game, or a similar one?
HOYLE Card Games 2012 from Encore software.
This is NOT a real money game. This is a play-for-fun on your own computer at home game. First of all, why would they have any incentive to program it any way other than fair? They don't win money from you if they lose.
I can understand complaining that it's not realistic, but if you're not losing money and you received the game as a gift, get over it. Play the Wizard's blackjack simulator here: Play Blackjack. It's free and I can guarantee you that it's fair.
Nice start ----- I didn't sign up to get help from a pompous individual who thinks they know it all - ponder this little quote below.
"The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all"
- Harry S Truman -
Nice start from you as well, sir. I tried to find a pithy quote for you to consider during your time out, one about about being respectful when you're a newcomer somewhere. Couldn't find an appropriate one, though.
Quote: WizardPersonal insult. Three-day suspension.
Just the way the posts are worded I feel like the finger was on the trigger, waiting for a clean shot ;).
Quote: RomesJust the way the posts are worded I feel like the finger was on the trigger, waiting for a clean shot ;).
A clean shot is always sweeter.
Quote: RomesJust the way the posts are worded I feel like the finger was on the trigger, waiting for a clean shot ;).
Well, it is a brand new account who's first post is looking like it's troll bait or something.
However I wouldn't need 10k hands to realize I was getting cheated in such a blatant way. IE if I was playing online.
I have a feeling he ran bad for a short period of time and then mentally noted anytime he lost.
Whatever happened to our Laughlin guy who was going to supply us with Video proof that IGT machines had much predictability?
I don't need to play 10 thousands hands to know I'm being cheated - whenever my 2008 Hoyle black jack game player gets 20 -- 9 times out 10 the dealer will get 21 --- wouldn't you feel cheated or feel the game is rigged if this happened to you? BTW it happens all the time.
Quote: HeySlickreply to the poster above
I don't need to play 10 thousands hands to know I'm being cheated - whenever my 2008 Hoyle black jack game player gets 20 -- 9 times out 10 the dealer will get 21 --- wouldn't you feel cheated or feel the game is rigged if this happened to you? BTW it happens all the time.
Try playing at Aria, it happens all the time.
Quote: HeySlickDo those rules set by the Gaming Control Board apply to games for fun -- e.g., Encore et al that make these games? IMO Encore who makes the Hoyle series of Card games isn't bound by the same rules - therefore they can do whatever they want, basically cheat with impunity. I just don't buy into the premise these games are legitimate. As I've mentioned repeatedly they've been programmed to get certain hands whenever the player has 20 --- getting 21 by the dealer 9 times out of 10 ISN'T random or happenstance....period.
OK, but WHY would they do it? What BENEFIT do they get from making a "game for fun" not fun? Don't they benefit MORE from cheating FOR the player and making it so that people WANT to buy the game? SELLING THE GAME is only way they make money...
If it's not for real money then let it go, because even if you prove your claims... its meaningless. Prove a Major class III game in NV is somehow cheating and be ready for dateline 20/20 , 60 minutes, GWAE, GMA options are endless. Gear up for a class action lawsuit.Quote: HeySlickDo those rules set by the Gaming Control Board apply to games for fun -- e.g., Encore et al that make these games? IMO Encore who makes the Hoyle series of Card games isn't bound by the same rules - therefore they can do whatever they want, basically cheat with impunity. I just don't buy into the premise these games are legitimate. As I've mentioned repeatedly they've been programmed to get certain hands whenever the player has 20 --- getting 21 by the dealer 9 times out of 10 ISN'T random or happenstance....period.
Quote: rdw4potusOK, but WHY would they do it? What BENEFIT do they get from making a "game for fun" not fun? Don't they benefit MORE from cheating FOR the player and making it so that people WANT to buy the game? SELLING THE GAME is only way they make money...
IMO
The game maker may be cohorts with the Casinos -- logically, you would think they would prefer to favor the player. I still contend there's NO way a real legitimate Reno/Las Vegas Casino dealer is going to get 21 9 times out of 10 when the player has 20,along with other questionable hands the dealer gets whenever the player has 20 -- especially repeated push hands. I feel the real Casino' collaborate with the game makers. I live 100 miles from Reno and, at one time I enjoyed going to Reno for entertainment IE playing BJ - NOT anymore --- SO your theory about cheating for the player hasn't worked for me, actually it's had the VERY opposite effect - I seldom if ever go to Reno.
Quote: HeySlickIMO
The game maker may be cohorts with the Casinos -- logically, you would think they would prefer to favor the player. I still contend there's NO way a real legitimate Reno/Las Vegas Casino dealer is going to get 21 9 times out of 10 when the player has 20,along with other questionable hands the dealer gets whenever the player has 20 -- especially repeated push hands. I feel the real Casino' collaborate with the game makers. I live 100 miles from Reno and, at one time I enjoyed going to Reno for entertainment IE playing BJ - NOT anymore --- SO your theory about cheating for the player hasn't worked for me, actually it's had the VERY opposite effect - I seldom if ever go to Reno.
If the game maker were working with the casinos, then they'd definitely cheat for the player. They'd want to make the game seem easy to win, so that players would think they could succeed in real life. Making blackjack no fun makes people not want to play blackjack...
I played a IGT BJ game the other day (REAL MONEY)I got BJ 4 out of 6 hands and won the other 2 hands with a double down on each.Quote: HeySlickIMO
The game maker may be cohorts with the Casinos -- logically, you would think they would prefer to favor the player. I still contend there's NO way a real legitimate Reno/Las Vegas Casino dealer is going to get 21 9 times out of 10 when the player has 20,along with other questionable hands the dealer gets whenever the player has 20 -- especially repeated push hands. I feel the real Casino' collaborate with the game makers. I live 100 miles from Reno and, at one time I enjoyed going to Reno for entertainment IE playing BJ - NOT anymore --- SO your theory about cheating for the player hasn't worked for me, actually it's had the VERY opposite effect - I seldom if ever go to Reno.
I lost the next hand then won 5 in a row including another BJ. Now what, should I assume its gaffed in my favor or is it only gaffed when you lose?
Quote: AxelWolfI played a IGT BJ game the other day (REAL MONEY)I got BJ 4 out of 6 hands and won the other 2 hands with a double down on each.
I lost the next hand then won 5 in a row including another BJ. Now what, should I assume its gaffed in my favor or is it only gaffed when you lose?
Sounds like you hit a lucky streak (it happens, congratulations). Maybe my Encore 2008 Hoyle Card games is corrupt? I just know REAL casinos wouldn't stay in business if they operated the way my game piece does. I've played BJ for well over 40 years and have NEVER seen such play IE hands dealt by a computer. As I mentioned previously at one time I used to enjoy occasional trips to Reno -- NOT anymore, so that theory about the game maker favoring the player isn't true.I'm NOT about to go to Reno anymore if the dealer is going to win 90% of the time whenever I get a 20 hand OR repeated push hands. The 2008 version I have the dealer often gets BJ whenever the player has BJ -- WTF!!?
Quote: rdw4potusIf the game maker were working with the casinos, then they'd definitely cheat for the player. They'd want to make the game seem easy to win, so that players would think they could succeed in real life. Making blackjack no fun makes people not want to play blackjack...
In my case it makes me not want to travel the 100 miles to Reno -- So who's the REAL loser in that scenario - sure not ME.
Quote: HeySlickIn my case it makes me not want to travel the 100 miles to Reno -- So who's the REAL loser in that scenario - sure not ME.
Yes, exactly. So, that's proof that your idea that the game is rigged and that the designers are working with casinos is NOT a good one.
Sounds like you hit a UNlucky streak (it happens, congratulations).Quote: HeySlickSounds like you hit a UNlucky streak (it happens, congratulations). Maybe my Encore 2008 Hoyle Card games is corrupt? I just know REAL casinos wouldn't stay in business if they operated the way my game piece does. I've played BJ for well over 40 years and have NEVER seen such play IE hands dealt by a computer. As I mentioned previously at one time I used to enjoy occasional trips to Reno -- NOT anymore, so that theory about the game maker favoring the player isn't true.I'm NOT about to go to Reno anymore if the dealer is going to win 90% of the time whenever I get a 20 hand OR repeated push hands. The 2008 version I have the dealer often gets BJ whenever the player has BJ -- WTF!!?
Anyway why don't you post up a Video showing us what you're talking about?
And I still don't have any clue what a FUN MONEY software program has to do with a real casino.
I highly doubt its happening in the casinos like you're describing.
Anytime someone come to the forum with all kinds of suspicious claims and supposed proof they NEVER prove anything.
Quote: rdw4potusYes, exactly. So, that's proof that your idea that the game is rigged and that the designers are working with casinos is NOT a good one.
NOT really - you just don't believe that said game makers would ever cheat. BTW even if my theory about the casinos being cohorts with the game makers is bogus? that still doesn't negate my opinion about the computer programmers writing codes that favor the house. I just feel that's deception on the part of Encore not to inform the potential buyer of their black jack game (s) being programmed & you think otherwise. BTW look below.
The Hall of Fame within my 2008 version of Hoyle Card Games
Biggest Kahuna -- $10,067,000.00
Biggest comeback -- $8,600,000.00
Best single session -- $6,060.000.00
(rolls eyes)
Thing is, the 9 out of ten 20's being beaten by 21's IS possible. It's just unlikely. Unlikely things happen. Like a QB throwing 4 INTs in a game to the same reciever, but the 5th attempt is a game winning TD.
Quote: AxelWolfSounds like you hit a UNlucky streak (it happens, congratulations).
Anyway why don't you post up a Video showing us what you're talking about?
And I still don't have any clue what a FUN MONEY software program has to do with a real casino.
I highly doubt its happening in the casinos like you're describing.
Anytime someone come to the forum with all kinds of suspicious claims and supposed proof they NEVER prove anything.
Here's a link to the game I've been playing and discussing
http://www.amazon.com/Hoyle-Card-Games-2008-VERSION/dp/B000TKH6H6
Wonderful.Quote: HeySlickHere's a link to the game I've been playing and discussing
http://www.amazon.com/Hoyle-Card-Games-2008-VERSION/dp/B000TKH6H6
Now can you make a Video and show us exactly how its gaffed?
Let's be 100% sure its gaffed then talk about how that affects us.
Quote: thecesspitDear game buyer, just so you know, our software is -programmed-. Thanks, Encore.
(rolls eyes)
Thing is, the 9 out of ten 20's being beaten by 21's IS possible. It's just unlikely. Unlikely things happen. Like a QB throwing 4 INTs in a game to the same reciever, but the 5th attempt is a game winning TD.
HIGHLY unlikely --- The Cal -Neva club in Reno has a BJ table that pays 17 to one odds on the first hand of a new reshuffle if the player gets a BJ - if the dealer gets BJ as well its' 20-one. I always play at least 5 bucks eveytime a reshuffle comes up --- so the dealer gets BJ along with the player, WOW! 200 hundred bucks ---- this rarely happens in Reno - BUT in my 2008 Encore Black Jack game whenever I get BJ the dealer hits BJ way TOO often.
Quote: rsactuaryThis thread makes me lol.
Makes me facepalm more than anything.
Quote: AcesAndEightsMakes me facepalm more than anything.
I'm done folks.
and
Quote: rdw4potusI'm somewhere between
and
YO! rdw, aspiring President you have the same initials as my father just in another order -- his were DRW. RIP (@ the age of 91).
And in the end... They were right! They really were being cheated at various games, including craps. Gaming consultant, Dr. Elliot Jacobson, has documented some cases.
If you truly believe that somethings wrong with the machine, Dr. Jacobson is the person that you should contact. He's one of the few people that are qualified to investigate.
Quote: KeyserThis thread reminds me of when some people were complaining that some online casinos were cheating them.
And in the end... They were right! They really were being cheated at various games, including craps. Gaming consultant, Dr. Elliot Jacobson, has documented some cases.
If you truly believe that somethings wrong with the machine, Dr. Jacobson is the person that you should contact. He's one of the few people that are qualified to investigate.
Thanks for the info --- btw my issue isn't/wasn't with slot machines or black jack machines.
A few people began reporting unusual incidents, like you have with the BJ, and they were ridiculed, like you were, for sometime before someone finally investigated and discovered that they players really were being cheated.
Thanks for the plug, but I no longer do this type of work. I sold "Certified Fair Gambling" to Charles Mousseau.Quote: KeyserThis thread reminds me of when some people were complaining that some online casinos were cheating them.
And in the end... They were right! They really were being cheated at various games, including craps. Gaming consultant, Dr. Elliot Jacobson, has documented some cases.
If you truly believe that somethings wrong with the machine, Dr. Jacobson is the person that you should contact. He's one of the few people that are qualified to investigate.
Right now, I recall two documented cases of cheating online blackjack software -- (there are probably more in my files, but I haven't looked at that stuff in over a year).
a) Plays with a short shoe.
b) Re-deals the dealer's draw card if the dealer busts.
Neither of these gives the type of behavior the OP claims.
I have never seen or heard of a case where there was cheating B&M blackjack software.
Quote: teliotI have never seen or heard of a case where there was cheating B&M blackjack software.
You likely mean, YET.
By the way, I wouldn't necessarily accuse the manufacturer, but rather a rogue programmer.
