Having to tip dealers is ridiculous

Yes, 1BB, a lot of maybes here. I would assume a good card counter would look for the better games (first look at penetration; then rules; then paranoia of casino) but I would still recommend tipping even for card counters. My advice did have a qualifier before I gave it. The player makes the decision of how much to bet for the dealer. This way, if you count, you take what you would consider to be your hourly win rate and use that to determine what you should tip.

If you're not a tipper of dealers; you're not a tipper of dealers.

I just can't get away from the tipping part of me. When I was in Japan (I have a whole article posted in the "Off Topic" section here) I actually liked the fact that no tips are given to anyone. At first it warred with my nature but after a few days, it was a relief. When I travel (for some odd reason) I always think I represent America and tip accordingly.

http://www.today.com/food/donatella-arpaia-service-will-suffer-if-we-get-rid-tipping-6C10963181

Not really gambling related link, but about tipping so close to this topic.

Quote: RaleighCraps

http://www.today.com/food/donatella-arpaia-service-will-suffer-if-we-get-rid-tipping-6C10963181

Not really gambling related link, but about tipping so close to this topic.

Interesting link about the restaurant industry.
I believe it reinforces the fact that businesses must pass increased cost to the customers (higher prices at the establishments that did not allow tipping, yet paid higher wages to compensate).

Reminds me of the English dealer I mentioned several posts back. She stated that her first club did not allow tipping, but the players "certainly paid for it".

Concerning dealers, if we (the players) chose to abolish the tipping system, the casinos would be vastly different from what we have known.
For that matter, in many ways the decline has been going on for the past several years.

Smaller table games areas.
Fewer games with low house advantage.
Higher table minimums.

Quote: rob45

Concerning dealers, if we (the players) chose to abolish the tipping system, the casinos would be vastly different from what we have known.

Yes, but players are nowhere near to abolishing tipping. Some players may grumble but most players only grumble when its too blatant and too excessive.

>in many ways the decline has been going on for the past several years.
>Smaller table games areas.
>Fewer games with low house advantage.
>Higher table minimums.
I would attribute this to relentless pressure from management for short term profits particularly a management oriented to voracious slot machines and their steady, reliable income with no payroll, no health insurance and no unions.

I think there used to be a card game called casino but in reality no one really plays "casino"... they go to a "casino" for rather limited purposes. Its in that "casino atmosphere" that they lose their money. Some "mixture" of games and music and low cut dresses defines a casino. Even for those who only play slots, the music and the craps table, even an empty one, is part of the experience. Even if its too early for that chandeliered alcove to yet populated, Bacarat is important. Players like table games to be there even if not all that many people play them anymore. Its the same way with slot machines. I expect them to be there even though I never play them.

Quote: FleaStiff

Yes, but players are nowhere near to abolishing tipping. Some players may grumble but most players only grumble when its too blatant and too excessive.

>in many ways the decline has been going on for the past several years.
>Smaller table games areas.
>Fewer games with low house advantage.
>Higher table minimums.
I would attribute this to relentless pressure from management for short term profits particularly a management oriented to voracious slot machines and their steady, reliable income with no payroll, no health insurance and no unions.

I think there used to be a card game called casino but in reality no one really plays "casino"... they go to a "casino" for rather limited purposes. Its in that "casino atmosphere" that they lose their money. Some "mixture" of games and music and low cut dresses defines a casino. Even for those who only play slots, the music and the craps table, even an empty one, is part of the experience. Even if its too early for that chandeliered alcove to yet populated, Bacarat is important. Players like table games to be there even if not all that many people play them anymore. Its the same way with slot machines. I expect them to be there even though I never play them.

Interesting take on the overall trend, FS. I think you're exactly on point. FWIW, my sister and I used to play "casino" allll the time. The rules are in Hoyle.

The atmosphere of a casino with tables is really very different than a slot parlor. The tables indicate sophistication, service, glamour, re-discovering lost days, all kinds of things a slot place really can't present. Even if it's a shoddy downtrodden property, there's a romance about the tables that just doesn't translate to electronics. And there's social interaction well beyond anything possible with slots, at least as they're currently configured. Tables are quieter, more comfortable, and most games give you the chance to make your money last a lot longer than playing a slot at max bet, regardless of denomination. OTOH, if you're a person who likes to zone out pushing buttons, or just in the mood to do so, slots give you that bubble.

How could there possibly be a thread with over 60 pages about tipping.

Tipping became part of every culture all around the world and is a permanent way of life. Hard to believe some of the posts I read here. Especially at a gambling site.

As far as casino tipping goes, at the end of the day, the amount spent on tips is usually the smartest money you left behind, and where you got the biggest bang for your buck.

Quote: 4ofaKind

How could there possibly be a thread with over 60 pages about tipping.

Tipping became part of every culture all around the world and is a permanent way of life. Hard to believe some of the posts I read here. Especially at a gambling site.

As far as casino tipping goes, at the end of the day, the amount spent on tips is usually the smartest money you left behind, and where you got the biggest bang for your buck.

I'm a relatively generous tipper myself (I posted about it earlier in this thread), but let's not go overboard saying it's the "biggest bang for your buck".

Quote: 4ofaKind

As far as casino tipping goes, at the end of the day, the amount spent on tips is usually the smartest money you left behind, and where you got the biggest bang for your buck.

Um, no. Clearly you are not the same type of gambler as me.

Yes, I admit I went overboard, and of course I woke up all the pro gamblers that want to brag about how they line their pockets with cash from the casinos.

My only point was that most of this thread could be considered petty, especially in a gambling atmosphere.

Quote: 4ofaKind

My only point was that most of this thread could be considered petty, especially in a gambling atmosphere.

Welcome to the forum!

And most posters forgot the thread title concerns tipping dealers, not waitresses, not maids, not valets, etc.

Sheesh.

Quote: zippyboy

And most posters forgot the thread title concerns tipping dealers, not waitresses, not maids, not valets, etc.

Sheesh.

Oh. That explains it.

Quote: zippyboy

And most posters forgot the thread title concerns tipping dealers, not waitresses, not maids, not valets, etc.

Sheesh.

Oh. That explains it.

I frequently over tip and occasionally under tip. No way in hell im tipping 20% on a $40 buffet for 3 people that's insane. I will not go to a buffet that automatically charges 18% for parties of 8 or more. I seem to over tip at coffee shops and small places, and cocktail waitresses, bartenders . I often under tip at expensive restaurants. Not sure why I need to pay for 1 person to seat me,1 person to give me drinks, 1 person to take my order, 1 person to give me my food. and 1 person to clean my table.

I frown on non tippers but I absolutely hate people who feel they are the tip police. I tip way more to people who are NICE. I don't care if you make mistakes at the table or forget something, it's more about attitude. Unfortunately lots of dealers have crappy attitudes as shown on here. I'm definitely going to start tipping Dealers LESS after hearing what they have to say hear. Dan before you start in with any statements claiming I probability don't tip well or was not going to tip anyway , don't bother because I have been over tipping dealers for years. I have even split drawings I have won with employees, 20% of table winnings and jackpots. I have witnesses to back up my claims. Certainly I don't do this all the time. Occasionally I will stiff if I feel it's warranted however that is rare.

If your a dealer or casino employee and you don't say thank you when I tip, I give you one more chance, if you fail to say it again or give any indications its to cheap, I fail at tipping you. I find some poker dealers at the 2-5 NL or smaller just expect at least one dollar per pot and only say thank you on the bigger tips. 5-10 NL or bigger poker dealers want $5 min per pot.

I can't stand when other people out others for not tipping this makes me do just the opposite and I then purposely avoid tipping because it's NOYB. Unless you know me or about the situation you should keep your mouth shut. It usually just causes tension and makes the atmosphere go dark.

I used to play quite a bit of poker. While I was playing at a particular casino a dealer took 20% of my action. When he dealt to me obviously I don't tip him.
People would get so Irate at me, it was funny. When they questioned me I would say thing like hes a crappy dealer, He sucks, dealers don't deserve it, why don't you show me how it's done. People would just get so insanity bent out of shape. This worked out well for him and me. People would start trying to chase me down with bad hands and play stupid . Others would give the dealer extra tip

to make up for me.

personally I believe AP's should tip something because for one it's nice to do so. Also it's better for your longevity and the business as a hole. A bit hypothetical I have jumped on a few cheap AP's who were stiffing on VP royals during a very juicy play.

Quote: AxelWolf

I frequently over tip...

I tip way more to people who are NICE. I don't care if you make mistakes at the table or forget something, it's more about attitude.

If your a dealer or casino employee and you don't say thank you when I tip, I give you one more chance, if you fail to say it again or give any indications its to cheap, I fail at tipping you.

You and I sound a lot alike when it comes to tipping. I have no problem at all overtipping dealers who are genuinely nice people. OTOH, I can't stand the ones who feel like they're entitled to a large tip regardless of how bad they treat the player. Makes no sense. And I was a bit offended earlier in this thread when that dealer compared his players to homeless people. Shows you what some of these guys really think about their customers.

Overall, though, most dealers are in the 'decent' to 'excellent' range and deserve a tip. And I still can't get over the fact that (in my experience, at least) the friendliest dealers are at the mid-range and locals casinos, not the swanky places. I'll take Boulder Station over Caesars any day.

Oh, and I totally agree about the 'Thank you' thing. I also give dealers who don't say 'Thank you' a second chance, but if they fail to say 'Thanks' again after I tip them, then they immediately go on my sh*t list. IMHO, it's incredibly rude to ignore someone who has just tipped you.

Quote: AxelWolf

I frequently over tip and occasionally under tip. No way in hell im tipping 20% on a $40 buffet for 3 people that's insane. I will not go to a buffet that automatically charges 18% for parties of 8 or more. I seem to over tip at coffee shops and small places, and cocktail waitresses, bartenders . I often under tip at expensive restaurants. Not sure why I need to pay for 1 person to seat me,1 person to give me drinks, 1 person to take my order, 1 person to give me my food. and 1 person to clean my table.

I frown on non tippers but I absolutely hate people who feel they are the tip police. I tip way more to people who are NICE. I don't care if you make mistakes at the table or forget something, it's more about attitude. Unfortunately lots of dealers have crappy attitudes as shown on here. I'm definitely going to start tipping Dealers LESS after hearing what they have to say hear. Dan before you start in with any statements claiming I probability don't tip well or was not going to tip anyway , don't bother because I have been over tipping dealers for years. I have even split drawings I have won with employees, 20% of table winnings and jackpots. I have witnesses to back up my claims. Certainly I don't do this all the time. Occasionally I will stiff if I feel it's warranted however that is rare.

If your a dealer or casino employee and you don't say thank you when I tip, I give you one more chance, if you fail to say it again or give any indications its to cheap, I fail at tipping you. I find some poker dealers at the 2-5 NL or smaller just expect at least one dollar per pot and only say thank you on the bigger tips. 5-10 NL or bigger poker dealers want $5 min per pot.

I can't stand when other people out others for not tipping this makes me do just the opposite and I then purposely avoid tipping because it's NOYB. Unless you know me or about the situation you should keep your mouth shut. It usually just causes tension and makes the atmosphere go dark.

I used to play quite a bit of poker. While I was playing at a particular casino a dealer took 20% of my action. When he dealt to me obviously I don't tip him.
People would get so Irate at me, it was funny. When they questioned me I would say thing like hes a crappy dealer, He sucks, dealers don't deserve it, why don't you show me how it's done. People would just get so insanity bent out of shape. This worked out well for him and me. People would start trying to chase me down with bad hands and play stupid . Others would give the dealer extra tip

to make up for me.

personally I believe AP's should tip something because for one it's nice to do so. Also it's better for your longevity and the business as a hole. A bit hypothetical I have jumped on a few cheap AP's who were stiffing on VP royals during a very juicy play.

Well said. I love the people who think they are AP players and can't tip because it will kill their "edge". Or the others that don't think they should have to because they aren't receiving anything for it. For 99.99% percent of gamblers, for are receiving a service. Same as a waiter/waitress. If you don't tip because of poor service, that's different and well within your rights. That's the way it should work. If you just refuse to tip, even a dollar or two per hour because you don't think you should have to, even if the dealer is engaging/humorous/appreciative, you are an idiot and should not go to service based establishments at all.

ZCore13

I usually tip 1% of my win and nothing on a loss.

I suppose, now that I think about it, it would be like only tipping a waiter or waitress if the food served was delicious.

However, that is how I do it. If I win, I tip 1%, if I lose, there is no "wealth" to share.

deleted

Quote: Zcore13

... That's the way it should work. If you just refuse to tip, even a dollar or two per hour because you don't think you should have to, even if the dealer is engaging/humorous/appreciative, you are an idiot and should not go to service based establishments at all.

ZCore13

Thank you Zcore13. I sometimes think of you with the initials "J.C." - well deserved.
It is because the 4% of gamblers to do show consideration that the operators don't have to pay $19/hr for dealing services.

And it is because of this "4% Sainthood factor" that the other and fairly cheap 96% (- overly represented here) don't have to put up with 6:5 on shoe games, or 50% penetration, or 12% edge side bets, or no comps, poor groundskeeping, housekeeping, and the like. Not that it is appreciated, because it really isn't, and that's the real fucking story, parasites getting their way paid for with NO cognition of the ploppies and Georges. They simply have no clue who really pays for their sloth, ingratitude and cheapness. Because it is the Georges, and proud to be one, instead of a stiff.

Nine times out of Ten, the surveillance crew gives an AP an outright pass if he is even seen tipping. Simply because it falsifies the low-life's nature. Best camouflage here, to be a friend, - or at least decent - to the house. Including the crew.

And 9 of 10 backoffs happen, because an AP WAS caught counting WHILE being cheap prick. Don't believe me, ask surveillance who does the call downs. It's like wearing an MIT T-shirt while drinking bottled water.

The best camouflage for an AP is not being a dick at a table.

And you actually make it easy while in the joint. The phone rings in the pit, and the boss looks at you.

Serves Y'all right when 86-ed.

deleted

well, I'm one of the ones who has discussed dealer tips in other threads, and didn't here, because I prefer not to be repetitive. However, my tipping specific to play is, I pay 10% of any big win (relative to the game). In PGP, for example, that starts with full house or better. I tend to like bonus bets, and tip from them. However, if I'm playing an even-money game, and playing a positive progressive, if I double-double up, I'll tip. Every 100 I win, I tip 5. If I'm on a slow losing streak and it's a good dealer, I'll tip as thanks when they get tapped. And when I cash out at the table, I'll usually leave a final tip, win or lose. I'm usually playing reds, so I usually tip reds. If I'm playing greens, I'm still tipping reds. The largest single tip session I ever left was 500 on a 3000+ bonus win day at PGP, with 4 straight flushes and 6 4oak in a single 4 hour session in Biloxi. (I was playing 2 hands, but still, that's a LOTTA bonus!)

I won't chastise people who don't tip; it's their money. But if the dealer flops 4oak at UTH, which I've seen twice, I will say, "cmon guys, gotta tip the dealer for that one" as I throw mine in to a table full of trips bettors. I used to tip the hand-pays 10% at slots as well, but there's hardly any slots attendants any more, and I don't play high enough slots amounts to generate paperwork any more, either.

i used to (and once in a while still do) play a consistent dollar on a bonus spot for a dealer. I know some dealers prefer that, just so they have some action in the game. But usually it seems to make the money drain faster, because the tip I wanted the dealer to have just went to the house with the rest of the bet, so I've taken to tipping winnings rather than playing for them. All FWIW; sorry if it's a re-run.

The best camouflage is not being a dick at a table.


Always worked for me.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

More whining.

More 86-ing, and canceling of comps, and going onto the "surveillance network" reports distributed to pit crews.

Trouble for you, not us.

Real deal. You're done for the night, and get a day-time job.

Quote: Buzzard

The best camouflage is not being a dick at a table.


Always worked for me.

As we've seen.
Your '86 Gremlin makes a good limousine. We pray for you. You're a good guy, Charles, really.

deleted

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Laughable. Grow up.

Been grown up.
Get a real job.
The door shut behind Nathaniel Tilton.

deleted

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Piss off!

So this is what AP has been reduced to.
You're done for the night, Buddy. [Security escorts you to da bus stop.]

We've always known this.

Quote: Paigowdan

As we've seen.
Your '86 Gremlin makes a good limousine. We pray for you. You're a good guy, Charles, really.

Pray for Josie. I am going to hell. See you and lots of forum members there. LOL

Quote: Buzzard

Pray for Josie. I am going to hell. See you and lots of forum members there. LOL

Charles, you're going to heaven.
They don't take Cash, or Visa, there. they take good hearts.

you may qualify; I think you have a shot.

Not the old AP's are scum sucking leech's with no ethics or morals, And the righteous and holy casinos are going to stomp them into oblivion routine. yada! yada! yada!

Quote: Beethoven9th

You and I sound a lot alike when it comes to tipping. I have no problem at all overtipping dealers who are genuinely nice people. OTOH, I can't stand the ones who feel like they're entitled to a large tip regardless of how bad they treat the player. Makes no sense. And I was a bit offended earlier in this thread when that dealer compared his players to homeless people. Shows you what some of these guys really think about their customers.

Overall, though, most dealers are in the 'decent' to 'excellent' range and deserve a tip. And I still can't get over the fact that (in my experience, at least) the friendliest dealers are at the mid-range and locals casinos, not the swanky places. I'll take Boulder Station over Caesars any day.

Oh, and I totally agree about the 'Thank you' thing. I also give dealers who don't say 'Thank you' a second chance, but if they fail to say 'Thanks' again after I tip them, then they immediately go on my sh*t list. IMHO, it's incredibly rude to ignore someone who has just tipped you.

Maybe I didn't address it properly about homeless people. I meant people that choose to not go work a job because they choose various substances over life, and stand with their hands out, taking and not contributing anything to anyone, the one's that choose too again, not the one's that have falling on hard times due to no fault of their own; are the same type of people that believe people that work in the service field are there to serve them for free. Using the services provided for free, or having the gracious players that do tip pay for them. I never condoned begging for tips. You never no what someone is in, until you go on break. Dealers always can find out if you are up or down for your trip, with today's player tracking software. My favorite are the players that put the winnings in their pocket when you are on break and they lie to you about being down. I make sure you really end up down by the time you leave. For thinking you are pulling one over on me, to make excuses for you being cheap. When you know that these dealers provide you a service, and are making under minimum wage most the time.

Someone, somewhere chose to pay dealers less, and make it a tip earners wage here in the USA. This was done, so that there is a larger pool of competent people to be chosen from to hire to deal the games. If the position was only a tiny wage, no one would be there to deal your game. This tipping system also keeps the customers happy, by having games that offer lower house edges as well the ability to keep those games open when it's slow, so that your game is open when you decide to show up. If they had to pay high base wages for dead games, you wouldn't find a large number of tables open. Dealers need to be compensated additionally to their low base wages. Since I share tips, I would love for the house edge to dramatically increase and give me a higher base, with no choice to accept tips. This would alleviate stress from the unknown. Such as, how many people are coming in today, I hope some players win so I can get tipped. I hope the players that do win are the tipping kind, and may the ones that lose be the non-tipping kind. Only so many people are going to win. Which ones do you think the dealers want to win?

Quote: Paigowdan

Nine times out of Ten, the surveillance crew gives an AP an outright pass if he is even seen tipping. Simply because it falsifies the low-life's nature. Best camouflage here, to be a friend, - or at least decent - to the house. Including the crew.

ahahaha. Yes, APs are low-lifes. Not esteemed members of society providing a noble and much needed service that benefits society as a whole like dealers. All APs do is siphon money from other people. hmmmm that sounds vaguely familiar. Now that I think about it I've decided I'm going to enroll in dealer school tomorrow so I can be a contributing member of society just like my new role model paigowdan. I would appreciate a passing of the torch ceremony at some point in the near future.

Ugh, this thread has devolved into Dan bashing again. That was not the point. Every 10 pages or so, I feel like I need to say the point again. I tip dealers because it's expected. I just don't think it should be. A dealer is facilitating the transfer of money, just like a bank teller. Honestly, I think bank teller is probably the most similar job to dealer. You don't tip bank tellers. And bank tellers would say that customer service is one of the most, if not the most, important part of their job.

Casino should just pay dealers more and table game players shouldn't be expected to tip them. Done.

I guarantee if the so called bad tipping 90% started tipping like the 10% good tippers you guys claim all the money comes from. (I would like to see some evidenced of this) the casinos would change the tipping policies so fast. The casinos would not stand for all that money being pocketed by dealers. They would start charging you just to deal. I know the Riverside poker room was doing this all the way up to 2004 and possibly they still do.

Quote: allinriverking

My favorite are the players that put the winnings in their pocket when you are on break and they lie to you about being down. I make sure you really end up down by the time you leave. For thinking you are pulling one over on me, to make excuses for you being cheap. When you know that these dealers provide you a service, and are making under minimum wage most the time.

I was with you 100% up until the bolded part. How do you know that same guy didn't lose his a** at the casino across the street? If non-tipping players bother you so much to the point where you want to "make sure you really end up down by the time you leave", then maybe a service job isn't for you.

I agree that people who provide a service should be compensated, but how much do you think is a fair salary for dealers anyway? Let's forget about tips for a moment. How much do you think is a fair salary for the service you provide? $20,000/yr? $40,000? $80,000? $100,000? Give me a hard number.

Also, I still don't understand something you had said earlier. You stated that you provide less service to people who don't tip, so clearly there are different "levels" of service. If this is true, then what's the problem?

Seems like Paigowdan hates AP's and non-tippers.

Let me guess- he is a dealer?

Quote: AxelWolf

I guarantee if the so called bad tipping 90% started tipping like the 10% good tippers you guys claim all the money comes from. (I would like to see some evidenced of this) the casinos would change the tipping policies so fast.

+1

You got that right, man.

I crack up whenever I hear stories about Wynn dealers b*tching about sharing tips with the floors. These guys make like $80,000+! They make much more than I do, much more than dealers at locals casinos, and much more than the average American, period. Yet they still b*tch.

I figure my tip bill runs about $5000 a year. I tip 15% in restaurants. The machine plays I work these days are not bigtime plays. But I have bigtime edge. Only about 20% of my plays are losers. Even on a losing play I have to cash a ticket. I don't tip on losing plays. Most of the tickets I cash out are just in the few hundred dollar range, give or take. A lot of the slot attendant/cashiers are familiar with me. I tell them if it's a losing play. I'll say something like "I got lucky and got most of my money back" so they don't expect a tip. I fudge this a little bit as I only tip on winning plays of $55 or more. I have enough edge to support it so on a $55 earn I'll tip five bucks. A couple hundred dollar earn and I'll tip seven or eight bucks. I work short term advantages. Really short term. My longest play takes an average of only 2.25 hours seat time for me to achieve my objective. And 80% of my plays are winners. I do several plays in a days time. I'm tipping off a lot of money. I do this to keep the personnel in these little casinos happy. I want them to be glad to see me coming.

Quote: mickeycrimm

I want them to be glad to see me coming.

Not a bad idea. I'm *really* not a fan of tipping on hand pays. I've stiffed on the last two dollar royals I've gotten (both quite recently). But now I've noticed the slot attendant gives the dirty eyeball when I walk in. Oh boy...

Bank tellers also make more than minimum wage... Because they're not expected to be tipped.

Your average interaction with a bank teller is normally around 30 seconds. A little different from the 30 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours one might spend playing a table game. Comparing a dealer to a bank teller is a ridiculous comparison. Food servers and bar tenders compare much more closely.

ZCore13

Quote: Beethoven9th

Quote: allinriverking

My favorite are the players that put the winnings in their pocket when you are on break and they lie to you about being down. I make sure you really end up down by the time you leave. For thinking you are pulling one over on me, to make excuses for you being cheap. When you know that these dealers provide you a service, and are making under minimum wage most the time.

I was with you 100% up until the bolded part. How do you know that same guy didn't lose his a** at the casino across the street? If non-tipping players bother you so much to the point where you want to "make sure you really end up down by the time you leave", then maybe a service job isn't for you.

I agree that people who provide a service should be compensated, but how much do you think is a fair salary for dealers anyway? Let's forget about tips for a moment. How much do you think is a fair salary for the service you provide? $20,000/yr? $40,000? $80,000? $100,000? Give me a hard number.

Also, I still don't understand something you had said earlier. You stated that you provide less service to people who don't tip, so clearly there are different "levels" of service. If this is true, then what's the problem?

$50-60k in midwest area, $65-70k large metro areas with high living costs. Everyone gets same service on BJ. On Craps and Roulette, you better tip, especially if Craps Dealer reminds you of your action and it hits, or they book your bets at last sec and it hits. Also, having the Roulette dealer consistently placing your self service bets, which slows down their game, which you get dinged on your reviews if you don't deal a fast enough game for the house.

Quote: allinriverking

$50-60k in midwest area, $65-70k large metro areas with high living costs

lol. You also think the minimum wage should be 17 an hour though, right?

Quote: Zcore13

Your average interaction with a bank teller is normally around 30 seconds. A little different from the 30 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours one might spend playing a table game. Comparing a dealer to a bank teller is a ridiculous comparison. Food servers and bar tenders compare much more closely.

ZCore13

I would never tip a cage person for handing me my own money, any more than I would tip a bank teller for doing the same thing. I would never tip a bartender for the 20 seconds it takes to pop a cap off my Corona, especially if said beer already costs $9.

I give all my players the same respect in that I deal my best for everybody. But when there is a close call, I don't help the non-tippers at all. The tippers get all my support as in "I definitely heard him say off just before the dice landed".

Quote: ontariodealer

I give all my players the same respect in that I deal my best for everybody. But when there is a close call, I don't help the non-tippers at all. The tippers get all my support as in "I definitely heard him say off just before the dice landed".

I would never compromise my integrity for a tipper or non-tipper, however if a player shouts I'm off as dice are leaving shooters hand, I'm more apt to verbally book player is off and scramble to get OFF button to put on their bets; if they are a tipper. If not, I'm not going to scramble and rush to benefit the non-tipper... Because regardless a action like that seems shady enough. Why direct unwanted attention to me by my bosses, if there is no benefit to me.

Quote: KeyserSoze

Seems like Paigowdan hates AP's and non-tippers.

Let me guess- he is a dealer?

Ex-dealer. Different role in the business now.

Dealing is a rough job: you're expected to be a mathematician, a perfect automaton, an entertainer, a bringer of lucky things, and a thousand and one other things while putting up with stuff and people who are often galling. Anything that smacks of cheapness or scamming is not only noticeable, but represents the player as a human being. A lot of people fail the test of human decency/"home training" naturally, and especially so with booze in their system and money on the line. It would be a rough and thankless job at $200+ a day, no less minimum wager at NO tips from the vast majority of players who are often jerks to boot. One drop of jerk in a sea of saints can mess things up, forget about casinos and gambling halls. The average person is not about what he can contribute as he goes through life, he is about what kind of scam for a free lunch he can pull off, what kind of crap he can get away with, at others expense.

If people can see how they sometimes behave at a table, as if they can see the surveillance video of themselves with audio, they would often be surprised at themselves: "That was ME??!! - naaaa! I don't act like that!" Cough, ahem. In terms of "Pennies in Heaven," many gamblers are running a deficit.

If you say "Well, you don't like dealing, you should get a better job," well, I have done so. But I remember what it was like. I used to think that the average person was relatively decent with good intentions, yada, yada, yada. I now believe to a great degree that the average person is fundamentally self-seeking, and dishonest when given a chance to show his true colors. And it does make sense. If asked, "Where is hell's waiting room?" many would have to admit Planet Earth, or at least Planet Hollywood.

I've read waiters blogs, and thought to myself, "Yup. Very similar."

One can do a simple experiment: With your home computer and printer, Print up a bunch of cash-out slot tickets with good values on them ($147.50, $87.00, etc.) - really good facsimiles, mind you, and place them around a casino in strategic locations. See who takes them to the security desk so that they can find their rightful owner, and who tries to cash them out for themselves. Make prop bets on it, in fact. What odds would you give? (For laughs and giggles, print some out with a casino name that is inconveniently located a distance away.) People in a casino don't think, "aww, some poor bastard forgot his cashout ticket, let me take it to security" - they think "Aha! It's MINE now, all MINE! And F$$k its rightful owner!"

These are the people that dealers, slot techs, and cocktail waitresses provide service to, and put up with, for often no real tips. Not an easy job, and one that deserves to pay better.

Bad Karma. Bad, bad Karma. But you know that. Gambling debts are always paid. Gambling money found has to go to its rightful owner. Credits left on a machine? Left for the next player. No problem. Black under someone else's perch? Not mine. Cashout ticket for more than 5cents? Also not mine.

I actually let a guy know in front of my at a cashier's cage he dropped his $100. He was a real asshole to the cashier and I probably should have pocketed it or turned it in to the cage which will be "conveniently" lost but if I ever dropped some money I hope somebody will look out for me too.