Casinos own your action to 100% why is there no organization that fight for full time players/custom

Casinos own your action to 100%
Why is there no organization that fight for full time players or customers rights?

I read about people who is winning playing on-line using Internet casinos.
They get banned with out any explanation - i find that strange that casinos own that right to ban with out telling why.

Maybe i am stupid - but then feel free put some light upon the subject.

I know full time professionals in Las Vegas that is not welcome for obvious reasons - but still is not right to ban some one from 100 casinos with out any explanation.
I wish there exist some way to force casinos towards explanation and give the person in question to argue against in court.

I read about people into sport betting witch get limited or banned from playing or place bets with out any explanation.
Sport-betting or casino play only welcome losers and not winners - that sucks.

That is a win"win situation to run a business that only welcome losers - that should not be legal.

You want to go to court over it? That's fine.
In an Indian Casino, the tribe owns the court system and in Las Vegas the casino's own the entire state government, courts included.
So fine ... go to court.
Note for the finicky: Oh, okay... in Las Vegas that teachers union keeps making inroads in getting tax revenue for itself and more and more non-gambling places are paying taxes in the State of Nevada, but let's face it: The Casinos pay all the taxes!! They own the Gaming Commission. Gaming Board and Casino Execs are revolving doors. Sheriffs retire to Chief of Security for some casino outfit.

So where you going to go for a right to successfully count cards or a right to vary bets consonant with the count?

.

Court was the only option that come to mind and after reading what you state then there is no option as i see it.
Thank god i am not full time player and only have it as hobby.

Who could live with the stress and uncertainty being full time player - nothing glamor or luxury about it.
And who count cards - i hear they get exited over 1% edge ...

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Quote: AverageJOE

Casinos own your action to 100%
Why is there no organization that fight for full time players or customers rights?

A great question.

Probably no such organizations have taken hold because gamblers are an independent breed by nature. Also, there is the stigma factor. If you are a casual or recreational gambler, you probably don't possess much interest in going public with your avocation for the usual reasons. For the Pro, well we know why they shun publicity.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The casino has around 1/2% edge and makes a ton of money.

What?! I'd put the average casino's total edge over all action at somewhere in the 10-15% range, easy.

Quote: LonesomeGambler

What?! I'd put the average casino's total edge over all action at somewhere in the 10-15% range, easy.

I would lower that a bit, but that is more like it.

BTW a 1% edge is huge, I have to sign off now without a chance to look for it, but the wizard has a page on that somewhere.

Quote: LonesomeGambler

What?! I'd put the average casino's total edge over all action at somewhere in the 10-15% range, easy.

The term is "hold". Even though the casino's edge is .5-1.5% on every (good) bet the fact that you go through your bankroll many times through, combined with making high HE bets, creates the casino's hold. I've heard this figure stated anywhere from 10-25%, I'm sure someone here can give you a better %.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The casino has around 1/2% edge and makes a ton of money.

Ain't no casino what pays its light bill 'cause of dat half-percent edge!

Every BJ dealer standing there bored out of their skull learns the hard part is to keep from laughing at the player's decisions and to keep from saying "If you are losing... LEAVE". Most people play Blackjack at about 12 percent edge.

The Croupier gave a lousy eighty dollars to that sweaty scared man in the cheap suit ... who promptly started to leave the casino but only made it as far as the next roulette table!

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Casinos are private property and have every right to ban or refuse entry to anyone without any reason.. Its their right.

That is wrong and you got it wrong that is the issue.
It does not matter if they own the property or run there business as long all are equal welcome.
It is not equal to say we only allow womans with long hair to enter our property and use our service.
If they get a hair cut we will ban with out any explication towards why.

Lets see, in my country the union is strong and the private companies can not do what ever they like when the feel to do so as in fire people from work.
Or we could name it discrimination with out any way to prove our point as they are free from making any statement or give any reason towards why they ban, that is wrong.

Just because you feel comfort that things are like they are does not make them right to be so.
But one thing is for sure that we have to keep hide and seek with out getting heat.

Still i find it interesting how some one can run public customer service and have the right to refuse with out any given reason.
Like a door man tells you that you are to young to enter the property or that you clothing code is wrong or that you are to drunk to enter our property and use our service, that is simple.

Quote: FleaStiff

Most people play Blackjack at about 12 percent edge.

Now let's not exaggerate... I'm not sure you even CAN do that. Even completely random hit-stand choice between 12 and 16 is going to fare better than that. You'd have to stand on 11 and under or start hitting 17+ to get that 12% edge, and hitting 17+ will cause an outcry, it's not being done.

Some tweeted gripes that illustrate the style of play... perhaps this is suggestive of a particular house edge, perhaps not.

Player in high limit chips up when I go on break and waits till I get back to play. I'm flattered, but I'm pulling the same cards out.

That guy in high limit ends up going on a ridiculous run and gets up to 7k. Does he leave? Nope. Put...it...all...back.


Guy loses 4k at my table, buys in another 1K, loses, another 1k, loses, another 1k, loses, then buys in for $400. Time to hit the road, pal.

These people are horrible at chasing their $. They just keep digging a hole then refuse to dbl 11 against a 5. That's how u get it back!

I've heard "this is ridiculous" about 23 times in the past 40 minutes. What's ridiculous is this jackass is still here losing. LEAVE.

He had no idea what a double down was even after I explained it slowly to him.
Guy sat down and had no clue how to play blackjack. Strategy and common sense eluded him.
Guy stays on 12 against a 10 and then next hand hits 15 against a 4. Loses both. Brilliant.

Player stays on 14 against 10 and says "I'm gonna give myself a chance and stay on it." I flip over 19. Yeah, some chance you gave yourself.

Player is doubling hard 12 at my table. Says he usually does well with those doubles. Well, he's 0-for-4 doing it at my table today.

Guy tells me he's down $2,000 and needs to get his money back. He's now betting $5 a hand. Yeah, he'll have it back in no time

How many times can you not hit 15 and 16 and lose before you realize you should hit it? Doesn't Pavlov's dog work in this instance?

another dealer with nothing but contempt for the people that make his employment possible.
don't scratch your head when you get nothing in tips. you don't deserve them.

Quote: FleaStiff

These people are horrible at chasing their $. They just keep digging a hole then refuse to dbl 11 against a 5. That's how u get it back!

Yeah, but do the math as to how much you really lose there, as long as you at least hit your 11. It doesn't come anywhere close to a 10% edge.

Quote: FleaStiff

How many times can you not hit 15 and 16 and lose before you realize you should hit it? Doesn't Pavlov's dog work in this instance?

Doesn't matter much. 16 is a marginal hand to hit or stand, 15 has a modest advantage to hitting.

Quote: ahiromu

The term is "hold". Even though the casino's edge is .5-1.5% on every (good) bet the fact that you go through your bankroll many times through, combined with making high HE bets, creates the casino's hold. I've heard this figure stated anywhere from 10-25%, I'm sure someone here can give you a better %.

Yes, I understand the concepts of "hold" and "drop," but the casino's theoretical edge does not always equal the hold, although it comes very close as you extend the period being examined (i.e., the hold will vary quite a bit from the casino's cumulative edge over the course of a quarter, but it will run very close over the course of a few years).

The 1/2% edge figure is roughly the casino's edge in a fairly standard H17 DOA DAS RSA blackjack game (actually around 0.66%), but bear in mind that the vast majority of a casino's profit comes from slots, not table games. Slots can vary wildly in terms of house edge, but it's generally in the 10-20% range. And blackjack only represents about half to 3/4 of the total table games in an average casino. The average gambler probably plays blackjack with a 1.5-2% disadvantage, and they're much worse off on other games. Roulette is of course -5.26%, and craps is usually in the low single digit category, but in carnival games (where players have absolutely NO CLUE what they're doing), you're looking at anywhere from a 4%-15% disadvantage. Watch a random player on an Ultimate Texas Hold'em game sometime if you doubt this.

10-25% sounds very reasonable. Rest assured that palaces of gold and crystal are not built from a 0.66% edge alone.

Quote: LonesomeGambler

10-25% sounds very reasonable. Rest assured that palaces of gold and crystal are not built from a 0.66% edge alone.

Some of the "Real World Edge" versus the Mathematical Edge is surely due to such things as alcohol, fatigue, distractions (acoustic and anatomical), social interaction ... etc. Some people are ignorant, some people are distracted by coin pushers sliding quarters off a ledge and think its gambling, some people are sharp, sober and alert. They each play the same game but clearly have different experiences and a different "house edge" that they are playing against.

That group of three couples sharing two card keys and one bed at the IP are having fun. They are drinking alot and may be more alert to the free drinks than the Carnival Games but they still know what house edge means. If they are en route to their room and encounter a Red Chip and a Redhead in the elevator, they may try to take each of them along to the over-crowded room with its over-stocked ice chest. They are not blotto drunks, they are still able to do basic math, its just that they see a casino as a place that features opportunities to enjoy two or three numbers as well as opportunities to enjoy twosomes and threesomes. They are not tossing their money away blindly or letting it blow out the room's open window, but they surely play a different "edge" than a slide rule toting mathematician trying to get each die to land on 3.5.

Quote: midwestgb

A great question.

Probably no such organizations have taken hold because gamblers are an independent breed by nature. Also, there is the stigma factor. If you are a casual or recreational gambler, you probably don't possess much interest in going public with your avocation for the usual reasons. For the Pro, well we know why they shun publicity.

True and i agree why would some one who has to play hide and seek to survive should go public.
... or create organization and go into politics - to sensitive.

Why don't we create a "Gamblers Union"?

There's a lot of power out here. Casinos want all of us to play and lose individually. By sharing information on a public forum like this makes gamblers more knowledgeable and stronger. I have learned a lot on this forum. I have learned a lot about different gambling strategies, more favorable casinos with better conditions to play with. The amount of info on this forum is very powerful. If we stop criticizing each other and have an open mind; we can start to have more $$$ in our pockets at the end of the day. It does not matter if you don't believe in lucky Casinos, lucky dealers, lucky craps shooters, lucky slot machines, lucky roulette systems, etc. The bottom line is I've been losing playing my way for years; I am willing to try anything new no matter how "silly" it sounds.

Knowlege is Power! Play the Don't Pass Line against me in Craps everytime; you'll make money more times than not. Playing Craps in Chicago last week; I told the entire table to wait a couple of rolls before betting on me. I told the "Don't players", you are making a very smart bet even though I was shooting from the Pass Line. I Point 7'ed out (PSO) 6 times in a row. I mentioned in a post last week a lucky shooter in the Midwest who hit the Fire Bet 3 times last month and had an amazing roll when I was on her table. This is valuable information that can be used to make money at specific Casinos; open your minds!

Be very careful playing Texas Hold'em against me; I have GREAT luck in that game. If you know a lucky Craps shooter in Atlantic City; please PM me, I'll be there from May 23 - May 25. Craps is random but I'd rather bet with someone who has good luck and against someone who has bad luck.