Very Orwellian Here

Quote: JB


Quote: sevenshooter

I think what we're witnessing here is an encounter between egg-heads and actual pro gamblers.

If you are capable of discussing the subject at hand without resorting to insults, now would be a good time to start doing so.

If you wish to continue trolling, please do so at another forum.
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Please show us evidence of my inappropriate behaviour and I will be happy to do so.

Is this an allusion to the term, "egg-head"?

Noun, 1. egghead - an intellectual; a very studious and academic person.

Or perhaps a reference to, "You must be blind, deaf and dumb to have not yet recognized the fact that I am not selling any system here."

Dumb, Adj. - Lacking the power of speech.
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JB has deleted this entire thread on the premise that "egg-head" is an insulting word despite me having edified him on the correct use of that specific term.

It is unfortunate that ideas that challenge the status quo cannot be discussed openly and rationly.

I am a successful precision-shooter with over a decade of advantage-gambling experience and I feel my thread was in no way derisive nor without merit.

Sevenshooter

Here, JB -- I'll throw you a bone:

(To be said in a dronish tone):

"There is no way the sum of a number of bets having a negative expected value can create a positive expectancy".

"There is no way to overcome the house advantage."

"All systems are doomed to failure no matter if they are progressive or regressive".

"The possibility that a player can achieve an edge at craps through manipulation of the dice is miniscule at best and most likely a falsehood".

Is that better?

7 -

Your dictionary definitions of "egg-head" and "dumb" may be accurate, but you can't deny that these terms are normally used in a derogatory manner.

Like it or not, this 'public' forum is not public.

Just as a casino can bar a card counter or precision shooter, the owners of this forum can silence any 'member' they wish.

It's their playground. If you want to play, you have to play by their rules.

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Do I agree with the actions taken? No. But I understand them. You should try to understand them too.

Seven,

Your credibility has now completely left. This thread is absolute verification that you are trolling.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

7 -

Your dictionary definitions of "egg-head" and "dumb" may be accurate, but you can't deny that these terms are normally used in a derogatory manner.

Like it or not, this 'public' forum is not public.

Just as a casino can bar a card counter or precision shooter, the owners of this forum can silence any 'member' they wish.

It's their playground. If you want to play, you have to play by their rules.

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Do I agree with the actions taken? No. But I understand them. You should try to understand them too.

Of course, being the gentleman that I am, I respect and understand the need for a moderator to maintain site integrity.
However, I believe deleting the thread was uncalled for and inappropriate.

There's no further need for me to complain as I've made my point.

It's just too bad since I had a lot to offer.

Just contribute and don't get into the name calling. The math is the math. If you put up a system, expect it to be picked apart because the math will get you every time. If it is ONLY your ability to control shooting that changes the odds in your favor, how can we use that unless we become controlled shooters?

I still like hearing about systems because everyone places bets differently...I just don't see them beating the math!

It wasn't deleted, it was closed. Very different. It was at 50 posts, and it was repeating itself.

Forum etiquette says if you have a beef with the admins, take it to them. Starting a new thread complaining about admins is counterproductive. Forums exist for the users; if users enjoy the forums, they participate. If they do not, they leave. The only reason to start a thread complaining about the admins is if you enjoy complaining about the admins.

I dunno. Maybe you have a lot to offer, maybe you don't. The system you proposed gives 149,000 hits on Bing, and 2.6 million hits on Google, so it isn't exactly proprietary. If it really worked, then the casinos would have changed the rules on craps by now, I think. Maybe you have some good gambling stories; I definitely think that is true. But I'll trust the Wiz for info on my chances at the tables. There is no magic. There is no system that beats the odds, just like there is no perpetual motion machine, just like there is no water cure, just like there is no time travel. (Where are all the visitors from the future?) If this seems relentlessly unexciting, well, it all depends on how you look at it.

Energy in equals energy out. Your real failing is that you are thinking of the casino as a closed system; the real system is life itself. There are better ways to earn money faster than Oscar Grinding it out at a craps table, after all. My system is work for the money, keep what I need for my family to thrive, and the rest is ours to do with as we please. Sometimes we go to Disney, sometimes we go to the casino, sometimes we blow it on cheap crap. Sometimes we spend $500 on dinner. Sometimes we do nothing with it. But what we do NOT do is worry about how a casino is ripping us off, and how we burn to get ahead by applying Oscar's Grind to a dice game in an effort to win $100.

Someone give this troll the flick.

Quote: Aussie

Someone give this troll the flick.

What a foolish comment.

You have no idea what advantage-gambling experience I have nor to what degree the amount of insight I have accrued over a decade of play.

I would venture to say I am probably one of the few contributors here who actually plays for a living. Plus, your comments are directed towards one of the very few gamblers around who actually can manipulate dice. I joined this site with the intention of being a helpful and resourceful guide to those curious about obtaining an edge in certain games over which I am most familiar.

I do not enjoy being called a, "troll", nor do I deserve it.

Knock it off.

Quote: sevenshooter

I would venture to say I am probably one of the few contributors here who actually plays for a living. Plus, your comments are directed towards one of the very few gamblers around who actually can manipulate dice. I joined this site with the intention of being a helpful and resourceful guide to those curious about obtaining an edge in certain games over which I am most familiar.

I do not enjoy being called a, "troll", nor do I deserve it.

You're right, you probably don't deserve this treatment. I was kind of a jerk to you earlier and it was probably uncalled for, so I apologize. I was being glib because I thought there was a high percentage chance you were trolling, but you seem to be genuine.

Here's the thing though. From our perspective, it's very hard to know: 1. Whether you are are just messing with us (trolling) and, if not, 2. Whether you are just a deluded kook.

I don't mean to say you are either of those things, but since this is a probability-focused place let's think about it in those terms. There are a lot of people on the Internet who are basically liars (trolls, con artists selling betting schemes) or kooks (people who genuinely believe in insane things). If you come here and make arguments that sound like the sorts of thing group A says and then defend it with the sort of logic employed by group B (especially the "I'm not listening to your math but instead going by own experience for which I have no evidence), what are we to think? That the probability is highest that you're actually in group C, a person who seems like a troll/kook but is not? Group C is much, much smaller than the union of groups A and B, right? So just playing the odds, our assumption is that you're a troll or a kook or both.

Again, this doesn't mean you are in group A or B; just that our assumption is you are. From our perspective, can you blame us? We don't know you. You make very bold claims and we are to accept them based on the strength of your word, posting behind a pseudonym. It's not particularly logical for us to believe you.

You have made some good posts in the past. But don't act surprised when we greet your claims with suspicion and skepticism.

I'm new here to this forum, but I can tell you that I didn't believe in precision shooting until I had a personal conversation with Stanford Wong, who sold me on the idea that it is possible. I set up a craps table in my garage to test it out, and practiced for about 6 months. I came to the conclusion that although I could not do it, and probably never could because I have a muscle control problem (age related), I am convinced that someone with skill and dedication could do it. In fact, there were times when I was "in the zone" and could see how the dice held together as then spun in unison toward the back of the table.

Like any other advantage method, there are probably a hundred people who try and fail for every one that succeeds. The Santa Ana Star casino in ABQ has become the mecca for those who think they can, but fail. If you play in ABQ, you can place the 4/10 with no vig whatsoever. A straight 2 to 1 payoff. The field pays triple on both the 12 and 2.

After observing all of this, I now believe that those who try and fail are actually playing with a negative edge greater than if they weren't trying at all. There is a definite physical cause and effect. But, the effect can work negatively just as well as it can work positively.

You can't prove or disprove anyone's claim that they have the skill to overcome the edge in craps. It is such a small nudge in the odds that it would take thousands of controlled trials to get into statistical significance.

But, I would never belittle anyone for such a claim simply because I cannot do it myself.

I just go on what I see and I saw nothing but trolling from you on that other thread. My last comment on this as I don't want to get into an argument with someone of this nature.

Quote: stephen

Quote: sevenshooter

I would venture to say I am probably one of the few contributors here who actually plays for a living. Plus, your comments are directed towards one of the very few gamblers around who actually can manipulate dice. I joined this site with the intention of being a helpful and resourceful guide to those curious about obtaining an edge in certain games over which I am most familiar.

I do not enjoy being called a, "troll", nor do I deserve it.

You're right, you probably don't deserve this treatment. I was kind of a jerk to you earlier and it was probably uncalled for, so I apologize. I was being glib because I thought there was a high percentage chance you were trolling, but you seem to be genuine.

Here's the thing though. From our perspective, it's very hard to know: 1. Whether you are are just messing with us (trolling) and, if not, 2. Whether you are just a deluded kook.

I don't mean to say you are either of those things, but since this is a probability-focused place let's think about it in those terms. There are a lot of people on the Internet who are basically liars (trolls, con artists selling betting schemes) or kooks (people who genuinely believe in insane things). If you come here and make arguments that sound like the sorts of thing group A says and then defend it with the sort of logic employed by group B (especially the "I'm not listening to your math but instead going by own experience for which I have no evidence), what are we to think? That the probability is highest that you're actually in group C, a person who seems like a troll/kook but is not? Group C is much, much smaller than the union of groups A and B, right? So just playing the odds, our assumption is that you're a troll or a kook or both.

Again, this doesn't mean you are in group A or B; just that our assumption is you are. From our perspective, can you blame us? We don't know you. You make very bold claims and we are to accept them based on the strength of your word, posting behind a pseudonym. It's not particularly logical for us to believe you.

You have made some good posts in the past. But don't act surprised when we greet your claims with suspicion and skepticism.

Then let's agree that in the future your collective opinions of me should be based on the quality of my contributions.

Quote: sevenshooter

Then let's agree that in the future your collective opinions of me should be based on the quality of my contributions.

The original thread has been reopened if you wish to continue discussion about your betting system there.

Whoa, I'm more interested in the Field Bet and the Place Bets on 4/10 at Santa Ana. Are these promos or do they require additional bets?

Quote: cclub79

Whoa, I'm more interested in the Field Bet and the Place Bets on 4/10 at Santa Ana. Are these promos or do they require additional bets?

From the Santa Ana Star's web site:

Quote:

Enjoy the best odds in New Mexico including free buy on the four and 10, the best prop bets in the US and 10X odds! Craps is fast-paced and fun and many players consider it to be the most exciting casino game. Any member of our Table Games staff will gladly assist you if you have any questions.

Woo hoo!

<<>>

No, they don't require any additional bets. You can walk up, place the 4 or 10 only, and get paid 2:1 if you win. The same way with the field (triple 2/12). They have been offering this game for at least three years that I know about.

I don't live in ABQ, but will be going back next month. Every time I go, I expect the game to be changed, but it has always been the same. I can report back next time I go.

Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. - Niels Bohr

this probably ought to be a new thread, but....

Are you REALLY saying that there is a bet you could bet all day long and not be up against a house edge? What's the explanation? that ain't paying the rent!

I had the thought that hopefully competition will mean this sort of thing spreads.

I'm also very interested in a firm answer to that question. I just sent the casino an e-mail, and am awaiting a reply. Under table games I just found the claim that they have "the best prop bets."