86'd from Casino or Just Blackjack?
For example, will the casino allow that same player to move over to the roulette or craps table?
What happens if a player also has a room at that same casino/hotel? Are they asked to leave?
-Allow the player to play blackjack but they must flat bet at all times.
-Allow the player to play any game other than blackjack.
-Trespass the player from casino; they can no longer enter the casino.
Of the three I'd say trespassing is a bit more likely but barring the player from blackjack is common. If they're trespassed, yes they'll probably be asked to checkout of the hotel but it's a case-by-case basis. They may just be banned from playing in the casino. Obviously if they're not trespassed they're free to stay in the hotel.
It depends upon the casino, but it also depends upon the curcumstances, how the player was acting and behaving, both before and after being barred, as well as what the casino manager's mood is. Hell, things may go better if he got laid recently.....
I've been 86'd and backroomed. But here are other actions that have effectively thwarted me, some are more polite than others.
1. Backoff -- excuse me sir, can I have a word with you....you're welcome to play any other game except blackjack
2. Flat bet -- excuse me sir, we've determined your counting cards. You can place bets at the beginning of the shoe but you can't increase or decrease them thereafter.
3. Half shoe -- only a few cards from the shoe are dealt out, and thus one loses the advantage of counting
4. Shuffle up -- dealer shuffles early and thus thwarts the ability to gain advantage through card counting
5. heat and intimidation - mean unwelcoming looks, sometime when playing anonymously, they'll call you out by name since your photo was faxed to them from another casino. Sometimes they'll let you hear them talk about you as a counter, etc.
Some will return to a property they've been 86'd from and then might get fined or put in jail. I've never gone that far.
Quote: LarDog7777I was banned from blackjack at Valley View casino by those very words this weekend..."excuse me sir, can I have a word with you....you're welcome to play any other game except blackjack"... I was not nor never have cheated or counted cards... I'm a premium card holder there and play one or two times a week on the $25-$1000 double-deck tables... Usually always start off with $500 in chips... Maybe put $1000 or $2000 into table... My basic bet is usually $50... On a good night leave with maybe $2000-$4000... Get along well with the dealers, pit bosses and other players.... If you add it all up I may be ahead $10,000 there so far this year.... I was told my blackjack play was "too strong for Valley View"... I don't get it.... Frequently sit beside other players with similar betting, etc. habits... Time to find another casino?....
I've heard of other cases where VV has kicked out players who've won too much, even if they're just getting lucky. One guy said he hit 2 $5 royals (or maybe $10 royals?) within a semi-short period of time and was 86'd.
PopCan! Damnation, where the hell you been? I thought you died or 'sumptin. And then Charlie21 responds. I'm almost speechless. Both of you should help me out more often, I need all the help I can get ;-!Quote: PopCanDepends on the casino. There are three options:
-Allow the player to play blackjack but they must flat bet at all times.
-Allow the player to play any game other than blackjack.
-Trespass the player from casino; they can no longer enter the casino.
Of the three I'd say trespassing is a bit more likely but barring the player from blackjack is common. If they're trespassed, yes they'll probably be asked to checkout of the hotel but it's a case-by-case basis. They may just be banned from playing in the casino. Obviously if they're not trespassed they're free to stay in the hotel.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLBoth of you should help me out more often, I need all the help I can get ;-!
Try to read the date of their posts.
Yep missed that. Told you I needed help ;-)Quote: DeMangoTry to read the date of their posts.
Quote: LarDog7777I was banned from blackjack at Valley View casino by those very words this weekend..."excuse me sir, can I have a word with you....you're welcome to play any other game except blackjack"... I was not nor never have cheated or counted cards... I'm a premium card holder there and play one or two times a week on the $25-$1000 double-deck tables... Usually always start off with $500 in chips... Maybe put $1000 or $2000 into table... My basic bet is usually $50... On a good night leave with maybe $2000-$4000... Get along well with the dealers, pit bosses and other players.... If you add it all up I may be ahead $10,000 there so far this year.... I was told my blackjack play was "too strong for Valley View"... I don't get it.... Frequently sit beside other players with similar betting, etc. habits... Time to find another casino?....
I can believe some places aren't sophisticated enough to figure out who the card counters are and just toss out people who greatly increase their bets at times and who have been winning.
It's such a basic principle with casinos to keep winners around so they can lose that money back, though, that if it is in other types of games where AP is not likely to be suspected, or not games where a low HE can be played against comps, well, I discount those "booting the winners" type stories.
If you're not a card counter you and your play is valuable to any casino. Don't even think about that place twice (It's too friggen crowded there anyways). Take your premium card with you, go to a different casino and talk to a host. Just tell him you're looking for a new casino because of poor service.Quote: LarDog7777I was banned from blackjack at Valley View casino by those very words this weekend..."excuse me sir, can I have a word with you....you're welcome to play any other game except blackjack"... I was not nor never have cheated or counted cards... I'm a premium card holder there and play one or two times a week on the $25-$1000 double-deck tables... Usually always start off with $500 in chips... Maybe put $1000 or $2000 into table... My basic bet is usually $50... On a good night leave with maybe $2000-$4000... Get along well with the dealers, pit bosses and other players.... If you add it all up I may be ahead $10,000 there so far this year.... I was told my blackjack play was "too strong for Valley View"... I don't get it.... Frequently sit beside other players with similar betting, etc. habits... Time to find another casino?....
Use up all your comps at VV and never return. Treat it like bad service at any business
It's possible your big bets just happen to fall in line with a high count.
Quote: MrVI wonder why it is that some casinos seem to "sweat the money" more than others?
I believe it comes from (likely uneducated IMO) upper management. Some casinos track the drop* while others don't. I believe the ones that don't track the drop are less sweaty, on average. I think they're less sweaty because the PB doesn't know how much is in the drop. But, he'll probably have a good idea if the table is getting killed or if they're making a killing.
I don't know how bosses are treated at different places, but I imagine at the sweaty casinos they are rated on how their pit has done recently (how much they won/lost)...whereas the not-so-sweaty casinos don't review or rate their bosses based on how their pits have done. It could mean a bonus (but I really don't know)...or if they "perform poorly" (lose money / not win as much as expected), then they get their schedule switched and end up on a non-desirable shift. But, some prefer the non desirable shift (grave or swing usually)....so they may not really care. But I think day shift is typically sweatier than grave/swing.
In craps, the boxman will use lammers (which are used when someone asks for credit) and tracks the total amount of cash in the drop box.
The casino knows how much $ in chips the table started at when it opened the table. Later on, they can count the chips in the dealer's tray plus the $ in the drop box (by counting the lammers in craps for example) to determine how much the table is winning or losing.
It's absolutely from uneducated/ignorant upper management. They also buy in to the hysteria from companies like Griffin who run around and say "YOUR CASINO WILL BURN DOWN TO COUNTERS!" They have no idea that 1% of people count, and of that 1% have a winning game, and of that they might be making $30/hour all while having enough variance to destroy their underfunded bankroll. Counters at less than black chip level should be erroneous to casinos, but they just don't understand the math. They watch movies like 21 and can't wait to "catch" a counter and kick him off their $5 table for his $5-$30 spread.Quote: MrVI wonder why it is that some casinos seem to "sweat the money" more than others?
Quote: RomesIt's absolutely from uneducated/ignorant upper management. They also buy in to the hysteria from companies like Griffin who run around and say "YOUR CASINO WILL BURN DOWN TO COUNTERS!" They have no idea that 1% of people count, and of that 1% have a winning game, and of that they might be making $30/hour all while having enough variance to destroy their underfunded bankroll. Counters at less than black chip level should be erroneous to casinos, but they just don't understand the math. They watch movies like 21 and can't wait to "catch" a counter and kick him off their $5 table for his $5-$30 spread.
I once got backed off for a 1-3.6 spread on a $5 or $10 min game. Took like 10 minutes.....
What are you talking about?Quote: RomesSounds about right. I've got one of those that I'll briefly be sharing on gwae.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat are you talking about?
He's gonna be on gambling w/ an edge with BD & RWM.
WHY???Quote: RSHe's gonna be on gambling w/ an edge with BD & RWM.
That's usually something people do near the end of their AP career or when they plan on doing a book or some self promoting venture. I find that a slippery slope into the dark side or a sell out. It's not an honor to accept, it's an honor to decline.
Explain the benefit, other than helping them to disseminate information and create fear in casinos, and help the show? IE AP's are running wild and making a living in casinos? Why is that a good message?
Sorry Rome's, as much I like and respect you, this sounds like an ego boost.(I know you dont care what I think). I just can't understand how it can help the AP community OR YOU(explain?). Honestly if i didn't think you(Romes) knew too much or you weren't a legitimate AP i wouldn't give a shi*t. But I feel you have much more potential, knowledge and ability, and you haven't even scratched the surface. There are uys currently writing books or whatever that i laugh at . I wouldn't laugh at a AP book from you.
Perhaps I should start thinking of myself and F*CK AP's and the community.
VERY DISAPPOINTED because it's HIM. Obviously I must be the dumb ass here, since everyone is writing a book, doing shows or going to the dark side.
A well known public gambling figure told me I should go on xxx and do xxx(have someone write that book for you, go on xx show, do xxx). I said, "NO.... that could mess up all AP(s) past and future, only I would benefit. He said......You shouldn't have any allegiance to the AP community old partners or whomever, they won't have any to you. Do what you got to do to make as much money and publicity as you can get for yourself. I rejected that and said it was not true.
Perhaps he was right?
Quote: AxelWolfWHY???
That's usually something people do near the end of their AP career or when they plan on doing a book or some self promoting venture. I find that a slippery slope into the dark side or a sell out. It's not an honor to accept, it's an honor to decline.
Explain the benefit, other than helping them to disseminate information and create fear in casinos, and help the show? IE AP's are running wild and making a living in casinos? Why is that a good message?
Sorry Rome's, as much I like and respect you, this sounds like an ego boost.(I know you dont care what I think). I just can't understand how it can help the AP community OR YOU(explain?). Honestly if i didn't think you(Romes) knew too much or you weren't a legitimate AP i wouldn't give a shi*t. But I feel you have much more potential, knowledge and ability, and you haven't even scratched the surface. There are uys currently writing books or whatever that i laugh at . I wouldn't laugh at a AP book from you.
Perhaps I should start thinking of myself and F*CK AP's and the community.
VERY DISAPPOINTED because it's HIM. Obviously I must be the dumb ass here, since everyone is writing a book, doing shows or going to the dark side.
A well known public gambling figure told me I should go on xxx and do xxx(have someone write that book for you, go on xx show, do xxx). I said, "NO.... that could mess up all AP(s) past and future, only I would benefit. He said......You shouldn't have any allegiance to the AP community old partners or whomever, they won't have any to you. Do what you got to do to make as much money and publicity as you can get for yourself. I rejected that and said it was not true.
Perhaps he was right?
Nice guys finish last. Take the money and run, Romes. Watermelon Wednesdays!!!!
Because I have fun stories from a decade of experience and nothing that would compromise myself as of today, plus it gives me a reason to go to Vegas? Meeting RM will be cool (Bob will be calling in) and it will be fun?Quote: AxelWolfWHY???
I was unaware I was "selling out" by talking about some past stories?
I guess it sounded a bit harsh, so I apologize for that.Quote: RomesBecause I have fun stories from a decade of experience and nothing that would compromise myself as of today, plus it gives me a reason to go to Vegas? Meeting RM will be cool (Bob will be calling in) and it will be fun?Quote: AxelWolfWHY???
I was unaware I was "selling out" by talking about some past stories?
As always I'm not in favor of TMI being given out publicly, perhaps im over sensitive to that but for good reason. I have watched as the published information has grown due to the internet and the casinos have gotten smarter. AP deteriorates each day. Darksiders learn from AP's and use that information to close holes. The only real saving grace is that new casinos kept/keep opening up. Where the money keeps coming from I dont know (sounds like a good topic)
There's been others on the show who kept the information and numbers to a minimum yet they still had an interesting show, hopefully you'll do the same.
Godspeed.
Quote: RomesBecause I have fun stories from a decade of experience and nothing that would compromise myself as of today, plus it gives me a reason to go to Vegas? Meeting RM will be cool (Bob will be calling in) and it will be fun?Quote: AxelWolfWHY???
I was unaware I was "selling out" by talking about some past stories?
So you were a stand up comedian as well as MMA fighter? Is your name actually Joe Rogan? Seriously though, great show! My favorite part was when you were you were playing the drunk rich kid at craps....playing the don't.
I vote Axel to be next. That would be a great show as well.
