What would be the reaction from the craps table?

I just sort of dared my buddy who has never played craps to bet "don't pass" and when the waitress comes by say, "I'd like a seven and seven. $7 tip if you get it here in seven minutes or less."

So, did I just figuritively hand a child a loaded gun?

Everybody glares, muttering about murder circulates about the table and the stickman calls out TakeTheDon'ts, PayTheLine.

Saying "7" is one thing that I find least annoying when playing. They are usually newbies and it's tough for their "experienced" friend to explain the game without saying 7. Plus even for superstitious people, saying something is less blatant than throwing money out when the button is on, or the worst, while the dice are out. Those are my biggest peeves. And actually, also very annoying is when the shooter gets the dice, then goes to his chips and starts calling out bets, with the dice in his hands. Then they tell him to drop the dice and everything grinds to a halt. But I guess if it's ONE thing, it's money throwing down when the dice are out and we aren't coming out. How about everyone else? One biggest peeve at the craps table?

Only one? Factoring in the frequency I've seen it happen, it's got to be squeezing in next to the shooter and dropping money on the table when the dice are out and we aren't coming out.

Sorry, I can't leave it at only one. A close second top peeve is the loudmouth drunk who has no idea where the dice are or what he is doing, and is always holding up the game until he loses all his money -- which happens pretty fast.

You object to people stepping up to the table and joining in the fun? I've never even considered that people would object to such a thing. Personally, I sometimes will step up, but wait until the next come up before doing anything. But that's not out of respect to other player's possible superstitions, but because I'd simply rather wait until a new roll starts. Then again, I also often join in mid-roll.

What's the rationale behind such a superstition?

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Of course, I never move in next to the shooter. That much I know!

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Personally, the thing I hate most is when my wife accurately can tell me "Seven Out". Or maybe it's that she tells me when the dice are already in the air. Sigh.

I understand people want to "join in the fun", and if I'm at a busy table, it's no bother. (Unfairly to others, I don't like people joining if I'm alone at a table, but I don't get mad.) The problem is many players consider each point and resolution as a "hand", and dropping your money and coming in mid-hand would be like sitting in a seat in the middle of a blackjack hand and wanting some cards (not a perfect analogy to be sure...) There's a flow and a rhythm to a hand and when everything has to stop to make change and take your bets, many people get upset. Think of a normal table. Most of the general betting happens right before the come out (craps check, horn high aces, etc) and immediately following the point being established (Place bets, hard ways, etc.) All other times, it's for the most part a continuous hand. Maybe a payout, a press, a parlay, Odds on the Come, etc, but for the most part, the basic structure of everyone's bets are there, until the point is made or a seven out. When a new player comes in mid-roll, it disrupts that rhythm. If I come up to a table, and the button is on, I take out my cash and my player's card, lay it on the rack, and wait silently until the end of the hand. It's just me though. I don't hold it against those other players or anything. I'd just prefer they wait...

"Loud drunk guy who never realizes they pushed the dice back in front of him, has half of his rolls leave the table, and splashes chips all over the felt" is also an annoyance, but it's rare enough to not occupy my top spot of annoyances....

Ugh, that also reminds me of the people that need to hold their chips, as if they are not secure in a casino. Then they need to roll, and they try to put them all down on the rack, roll the dice, and then pick them up again!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

You object to people stepping up to the table and joining in the fun? I've never even considered that people would object to such a thing. Personally, I sometimes will step up, but wait until the next come up before doing anything. But that's not out of respect to other player's possible superstitions, but because I'd simply rather wait until a new roll starts. Then again, I also often join in mid-roll.

What's the rationale behind such a superstition?

I don't think it's so much superstition as bad manners. The puck is ON, the dice are out, the shooter is about to roll, and here comes a wad of cash right into the middle of things.

I think it's OK join in the middle of a roll. Usually if you put your money down while the dice are in the middle, the shooter gets the dice and rolls, and then you get your chips. Very little, if any, disruption to the game.

Quote: cclub79

The problem is many players consider each point and resolution as a "hand", and dropping your money and coming in mid-hand would be like sitting in a seat in the middle of a blackjack hand and wanting some cards (not a perfect analogy to be sure...)

A better analogy is coming in to the middle of a SHOE. For the record, I DO ask the other players if they mind if I come in mid-shoe. Only one time did players object. They said that it had been a hot shoe and didn't want to interrupt the rhythm. Although I don't subscribe to that sort of superstition, I can certainly sympathize, so I waited.


I also ask players if they mind if I squeeze in at the crap table.

Quote: seattledice

I don't think it's so much superstition as bad manners. The puck is ON, the dice are out, the shooter is about to roll, and here comes a wad of cash right into the middle of things.

Ah. NOW I understand.

I never bring in my cash when the dice are in front of the shooter or in his hand. I only do it when the dice are in the middle. And only when the roll was a number requiring a lot of activity by the dealers.




But now that I think of it, it always bothers me when I'm the shooter, and there's someone at the other end making late bets. It makes no difference to me if it's a new bettor or someone who has been there all along, or if it's chips or cash. The only thing that bothers me is that if I wasn't paying attention, I might have thrown the dice and hit someone's arm. And we all know how deadly that can be.

No, I don't subscribe to that superstition either, but I do respect it.

Truth is, I get pissed at the stickman for giving me the dice too quickly. So I wait. But that's something else I've wondered about.

Whenever I wait for more than just a couple seconds, I want to tell the stickman to bring them back to the middle and check again to see if people are ready.

Is that permitted? The only reason I don't do it is so people don't think I'm a dick. Plus I think that people who are superstitious would think that's as bad as asking to change the dice.




How would you react if the shooter asked the stickman to bring them back to the middle?

Here's another craps related question. I have never played or dealt craps and only have a basic understanding of the game. Whats the general reaction to a novice.

I do gather that convention (superstition) dictates a novice male shooter is unlucky, while a novice female shooter is lucky.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Whenever I wait for more than just a couple seconds, I want to tell the stickman to bring them back to the middle and check again to see if people are ready.

Is that permitted? The only reason I don't do it is so people don't think I'm a dick. Plus I think that people who are superstitious would think that's as bad as asking to change the dice.

How would you react if the shooter asked the stickman to bring them back to the middle?

It seems like they will pull the dice back if you don't do anything for a few seconds anyway. I wouldn't care if you asked, especially if it was for an obvious reason, like they were still paying off bets at the other end or the waitress just arrived with your drink.

This does remind of one time the crew were breaking in a new dealer and the stickman moved the dice way too quickly while the newbie was still figuring out how to pay off the bets.

Quote: Croupier

Whats the general reaction to a novice.

Just that they usually need help figuring out what to do, and the dealers and players around them are happy to help. Novices generally stick with simple bets, and only need to be told once to keep their hands up when the dice are out :-)

I think if it is the flow of the game you are worried about the best time to put your money down is just before the dice are passed to the roller. A good crew will then have the chips counted out and passed to you before the pays for the roll need to be made. This is dependent of course on dropping only 1 or 2 bills, a stack that takes time to count and display for the camera is a definite turn off.

I also hate waiting to throw for any reason once being passed the dice and good rythmn does seem to be part of any successfull roll. Craps is my game of choice and I have been playing world wide for 40 years and a good crew should be able to let another player into the game with no interuption to the flow except for the guy who drops 50 $20's on the table.

If they ask questions, I will help novices understand the game.

If they don't ask, I'll ask if they want any advice.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that male craps virgins are unlucky.

On the other hand, if I notice a female who is shying away from the dice, I'll be one of the first to encourage her to throw. Heck, if she's next to me, I'm often tempted to put out a line bet so she CAN throw - even though I usually don't play the line if I'm not shooting.

I don't play much craps, but I sometimes I try to discretely ask the dealers questions on the rules. Like whether the commission on a buy bet on the 4 and 10 is always paid, or only on a win. Usually the dealers will be helpful. However, often a crusty old player will overhear the question and say something to the dealer like "He doesn't understand the rules, and is probably referring to a place bet." If nobody asked you, stay out of it.

Just a quick question for you all on the subject of craps. I have played a few times making pass line bets and odds. I have never seen anyone play the don't pass. Do other players ever get mad or give you attitude for playing the don't pass? I know the odds are better, but I'm honestly worried about the reaction of the other players.

Quote: bdrobet

I know the odds are better, but I'm honestly worried about the reaction of the other players.

Yes, the odds are a wee bit better, but it hardly makes much of a difference. I've rarely experienced anything negative from a crew or a player. At one very low-class dive I once had a player question my betting on the DontPass when I was also the Shooter, I simply ignored her. At one casino in Missisippi I had a stickman actually announce that I should not be on the Donts since it was a pregnant woman who was about to shoot. I restrained myself from laughing and simply switched my five dollars to the PassLine as the Box and I traded winks. I was actually glad a few moments later because it turned out she made her point. Only very rarely have I noticed a particular chill at the table as the stickman intoned "from the Don't, hoping they won't".

It just occured to me that I never answered this original question.

Saying '7' doesn't bother me. However, if I heard "I'd like a seven and seven. $7 tip if you get it here in seven minutes or less," I'd think you were an a*hole since you would have to know that it would ruffle some feathers.

Quote: bdrobet

I have never seen anyone play the don't pass. Do other players ever get mad or give you attitude for playing the don't pass? I know the odds are better, but I'm honestly worried about the reaction of the other players.

It gets noticed, but nobody really cares - unless the don't player is cheering while everyone else is miserable. On the flip side, don't look for any sympathy when everyone else is cheering.

Craps is a social game, with everyone wishing for the same thing. Who wants to be the lone person to go against the crowd? It's kinda like rooting for the visiting team while in the stands. You wanna do it? Fine. Do it quietly. But make a ruckus, or wear the visiting team's clothing, and you're just asking for trouble.



Don't bettors know they are thought of as a bad luck charm, so most will refrain from betting when the shooter is next to them.

That happened to me once. I got to a table just in time to share in the misery as six players in a row sevened-out on their second throw. The guy to my left was playing the don'ts and was cleaning house! But when the dice got to me, he stopped betting - and I went on a 20 minute roll! When I was finally done, I asked him how he knew. He said he didn't but was just giving me the standard don't player's courtesy of not betting against the guy next to you. At the time, I had never heard of that. But it makes sense.

Don't know if I mentioned this prior, but there's a guy at Harrah's AC known as the Angel of Death...he constantly orbits the craps pit and looks for anytime the point is 4 or 10 on any table. When it is, he forces himself into the table and lays between 200-400 on the point. He's very old, but he will often start to cheer, "Cmon shooter...let's go!!!! here we go!!!" He usually doesn't say anything negative like "let's see a 7!!!!", in fact you would think he was hoping for the point! The crews have mixed opinions. Many don't like him because he sometimes throws his chips late because he just came up to the table. I've seen them not allow his bet because of its tardiness and because "the table's full". Usually we just roll with it. "Angel!!! Angel of Death!!!! Point is FOUR!!!!" we call from the other side of the pit, as we watch him shuffle over. It's actually pretty funny. He wins more times than he loses, obviously, but I've seen him lose a few in a row too.

I'm contemptous regarding superstition. But I've learned over the years that it's not worth antagonizing people over.

Except for passing the salt ata table. There is some belief that handing the salt shaker to someone is bad luck, or will lead to a fight or something. So to those people I know who won't take the shaker unless you place it on the table, I tell them "Sorry. It's bad luck to pick up the salt shaker unless it's to my left side."

They believe me because I never put salt in my food :)

Quote: cclub79

"Angel!!! Angel of Death!!!! Point is FOUR!!!!" we call from the other side of the pit, as we watch him shuffle over. It's actually pretty funny.

Quote: Nareed

I tell them "Sorry. It's bad luck to pick up the salt shaker unless it's to my left side."
They believe me because I never put salt in my food :)

Those are both pretty funny.

I'll have to make a point of heading to Ceasars then next time I head down to A.C.



I used to have a favorite saying:


Superstitions are silly, childish, peagan beliefs.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

If you are looking for him, it's only at Harrah's I've seen him, the actual Harrah's, not Caesars. FYI

Oops. I coulda sworn you said Ceasars when I wrote that....

Quote: Croupier

Here's another craps related question. I have never played or dealt craps and only have a basic understanding of the game. Whats the general reaction to a novice.

I do gather that convention (superstition) dictates a novice male shooter is unlucky, while a novice female shooter is lucky.

I've only played craps 2-3 times for very short durations, but what I ahve found is they are their own "breed" and until you learn the laws of the pack you need to not attract attention to yourself.

The guy I told you anout in the begining if the kind who will say "hello" to strangers and can come off as messing with you a litle. He did this at a craps table once and the other player said to "go eff off!" At that point I suggested he should stickto talking to players at the blackjack table.

I also gather if youslow the game down people will get POed at you and fast. From a dealing prespective I was told if I wanted to train at the casino to wait six months before even taking the craps training class.

Finally, I think craps dealers work as "crews" who are almost always together and used to each other. Even if tips are not pooled, craps dealers are tipped "crew for crew" since it is such a team game. This adds to the "insider feeling."

Quote: cclub79

Don't know if I mentioned this prior, but there's a guy at Harrah's AC known as the Angel of Death...he constantly orbits the craps pit and looks for anytime the point is 4 or 10 on any table. When it is, he forces himself into the table and lays between 200-400 on the point. He's very old, but he will often start to cheer, "Cmon shooter...let's go!!!! here we go!!!" He usually doesn't say anything negative like "let's see a 7!!!!", in fact you would think he was hoping for the point! The crews have mixed opinions. Many don't like him because he sometimes throws his chips late because he just came up to the table. I've seen them not allow his bet because of its tardiness and because "the table's full". Usually we just roll with it. "Angel!!! Angel of Death!!!! Point is FOUR!!!!" we call from the other side of the pit, as we watch him shuffle over. It's actually pretty funny. He wins more times than he loses, obviously, but I've seen him lose a few in a row too.

All of a sudden it's really been bugging me as to what this guy is doing. Couldnt he lay the 4 or 10 at any time? Is there some reason he waits for the point to get established? I don't make these kind of bets, so ... What am I missing?

Superstition and dice setting are two common factors associated with Craps tables that I really don't like. Dice setting annoys me, especially if it is just some weekend warrior who probably read a couple paragraphs online and is convinced that his winnings will skyrocket. You can't do much about superstition, and I can tolerate it as long as the player at least has the basic idea of what a dice chart is trying to tell him/her. The dice are judge and jury, everything else is just a happy coincidence.

I believe the casinos are really dishonest when announcing the results of a point. When a natural 7 or 11 at the Comeout is thrown or the point is converted, the stickman always seems to shout "winner, winner, winner." But when the Comeout results in craps or a 7 shows after the point is established, their narrative is "Line Away" or "Out." Why can't they scream "LOSER, LOSER, LOSER"? I mean for the majority of players, the PL bet is their bread and butter, right? I guess the casinos are into political correctness or just some kind of wierd PR.

tuttigym

Quote: tuttigym

I believe the casinos are really dishonest when announcing the results of a point. When a natural 7 or 11 at the Comeout is thrown or the point is converted, the stickman always seems to shout "winner, winner, winner." But when the Comeout results in craps or a 7 shows after the point is established, their narrative is "Line Away" or "Out." Why can't they scream "LOSER, LOSER, LOSER"? I mean for the majority of players, the PL bet is their bread and butter, right? I guess the casinos are into political correctness or just some kind of wierd PR.

tuttigym

Turn it on it's head. Would you like someone shouting "Loser, Loser, Loser" in your ear? Its all part of trying to build excitement around the games. I wouldnt call it dishonesty.

Quote: Croupier

Here's another craps related question. I have never played or dealt craps and only have a basic understanding of the game. Whats the general reaction to a novice.

I do gather that convention (superstition) dictates a novice male shooter is unlucky, while a novice female shooter is lucky.

It depends on the table limits, IMO. If you're at a $5 or below table, no one is really going to care. You may get one or two people glare at you, but for the most part, most of the people at those tables are novices just like yourself. You may be pushing your luck at a $10 table and definitely at anything higher than that.

I would say that as a novice, you should just avoid tables with anyone who is throwing around money or older men (and sometimes women) who look like they are in it for the long haul. Those people aren't afraid to say something stupid.

Quote: DetroitCobra

I would say that as a novice, you should just avoid tables with anyone who is throwing around money or older men (and sometimes women) who look like they are in it for the long haul. Those people aren't afraid to say something stupid.

Whoa!

If those high rollers didn't want to play with a novice, they could have gone to a higher limit table themself.

The reality is, unless they are a control shooter (or scouting to find one), they don't mind the novice playing alongside.

Just don't start bugging them with questions....

Quote: AZDuffman

I just sort of dared my buddy who has never played craps to bet "don't pass" and when the waitress comes by say, "I'd like a seven and seven. $7 tip if you get it here in seven minutes or less."

So, did I just figuritively hand a child a loaded gun?

HA! I approve of this idea in its entirety, and may even use it myself some day. Good show.

Quote: Jumboshrimps

Quote: AZDuffman

I just sort of dared my buddy who has never played craps to bet "don't pass" and when the waitress comes by say, "I'd like a seven and seven. $7 tip if you get it here in seven minutes or less."

So, did I just figuritively hand a child a loaded gun?

HA! I approve of this idea in its entirety, and may even use it myself some day. Good show.

It gets better! This morning I told the guy I was going to auditions for casino school tuesday. He says, "Be a dealer and give me signals."

I reply, "Ain't going to jail and you don't have the temperment for that."
"Prove it. I'll even do that 'gimme a seven and seven' thing you said when I play roulette."
"I said try that at craps."
"What did I say?"
"Roulette"
"Really?"
"Like I said, you don't have the temperment for it."
"Oh."

Quote: tuttigym

Why can't they scream "LOSER, LOSER, LOSER"?

As a don'ts player, I would love it if they did this :)

As a dealer, they will teach you to not say "Winner, winner" when the point is rolled if people are playing the Don'ts. I was at a break-in joint in Vegas and the dealer kept doing this, even though I was obviously playing the don'ts. The pit boss told him to stop doing it, but he couldn't stop! He kept doing it. I eventually left after about 4 points were rolled. I don't think it would have affected me if the pit boss hadn't mentioned it.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Truth is, I get pissed at the stickman for giving me the dice too quickly. So I wait. But that's something else I've wondered about.

Whenever I wait for more than just a couple seconds, I want to tell the stickman to bring them back to the middle and check again to see if people are ready.

Is that permitted? The only reason I don't do it is so people don't think I'm a dick. Plus I think that people who are superstitious would think that's as bad as asking to change the dice.

How would you react if the shooter asked the stickman to bring them back to the middle?

I actually did this my last trip. I usually like to rhythm throw. I have my hand on the table as the stick pushes the dice to me. I let them hit me in the fingers, and then in one motion I gather them in my finger and thumb, tap them twice, and let them go with an arcing back spin. For whatever reason, I was having fumblitist. I had previously fumbled 3 times, and EVERY time, I 7'd out when I threw them. Since I had been on the table for quite a while with the same crew, the next time I fumbled them, I looked at the stick and said "Please pull them back. I fumbled them and I am not throwing them." He laughed, made some crack, and pulled them back. He then asked me if I was ready to try again, and pushed them back. I made the point, and everyone cracked up.
And that folks, is why I love craps.
All of the superstitions are hilarious, and so silly, and you wonder where they came from. All that is but mine. Mine are based on cold facts and years of experience. If they weren't true, I wouldn't put stock in them.