Threaten to go to the press?
You are brought aside and threatened to be BANNED from the casino. I know they can ban you for 'whatever' reason they choose, thats fine. What about threatening BACK and saying you'll go to the press and tell them your sour story about how certain non-cheating customers are not welcomed.
I would think a LOUSEY story on the local news or the newspaper would really get the casino to think twice about the ban? Not saying I'm right, its only my opinion.
Ken
You let us know how that works out for you.
Quote: s2dbakerI think you're on to something there Ken. No one has ever thought of going to the press to let them know that a local casino won't let them play because they have a system that beats them out of money. I'm sure that the press, needing story ideas and stuff, would gladly print or broadcast a story telling of a player getting the boot from a potential advertiser.
You let us know how that works out for you.
I didn't say it was for me.
You said...'system'. I said.....either or, a method or AP play. Check mate, your turn rookie.
Ken
Ah, you got me there!! I'm totally pwned!!Quote: mrjjjI didn't say it was for me.
You said...'system'. I said.....either or, a method or AP play. Check mate, your turn rookie.
Ken
If the casino has a right to do this, they will regardless of threat. Your plea, regardless if it's a threat or actually carried out, will amount to little. People get barred all the time. A good many probably make the same threat. How many do you see in the news? Unless there is some wild aspect to it to make it newsworthy, it's not going anywhere.
About the only ones news worthy are those where the casino actually acts in the wrong. In those cases, you'd be much better off keeping quiet and getting a lawyer.
Quote: s2dbakerAh, you got me there!! I'm totally pwned!!
Its a gift of mine. Most of you clowns dont think before posting and alot (not all) dance around the questions. (simply posting a response, is not an answer. Yeah, yeah I know......."I answered you Ken but its not what you wanted to hear".)
Old school tactics but whatever.
Ken
Quote: FleaStiffCasinos have more clout with the press than any customer does but they still tend to back off in stages. If you are winning at BJ, they will allow you to play any other game but not ban you. Or they will insist on minimum flat betting only or something like that. They want to avoid bad publicity but they have more lawyers and more press agents than you do.
Thank you for your input sir!
Ken
When I ran the pest control company we got slammed every spring because that is when the bugs came out. People wanted us over NOW, not in 2 weeks and not in a month. They would say, "I'm calling <local consumer reporter.>" Usually we just let them rant and they eventually took the appointment we had. Well, one guy was a little hard to get rid of and gave me the "I'm calling......" Combined with his persistance and probably the 20th time I heard the threat I said to the guy:
"Sir, if you want to call him that is fine. Here is what will happen. You will be one of dozens of leads he gets. His producer will call me and ask for my side of the story before the truck and cameras come. I will explain how our service contract works, then I will explain how spring is when all pest control companies get slammed; then I will tell them how I tried to make an appointment with you to do the actual work. After education them on all of this chances are they will see no story, and I will still be busy and still offering you service as we have openings."
After I was promoted a customer said he was writing a letter to the editor and "we will let the people of the city decide who is right." As though I would think that would even be published.
Point being all businesses get this threat all of the time and a management employee with even low-level experience will pay it no mind.
Which is perhaps why Sweat Point is such a brightly lit casino.Quote: ncfatcatIf I was an AP player my motto would be "make money in the dark"
But even if it does, the casino's attitude might be "Any publicity is good."
Quote: s2dbakerI think you're on to something there Ken. No one has ever thought of going to the press to let them know that a local casino won't let them play because they have a system that beats them out of money. I'm sure that the press, needing story ideas and stuff, would gladly print or broadcast a story telling of a player getting the boot from a potential advertiser.
You let us know how that works out for you.
The press wouldn't print someone's sour-grapes story about being backed off by a casino in the current period. They used to; the Detroit Free press printed a story about how expert Video poker players were denied access to play after their machines calculated their perfect-play abilities of some players' club (card-carrying players) playing on their identifiable players' accounts. THAT produced an outcry then, because it was systematic and was an action taken against a class of people in a demographic sense. But some clown walking into an Editor's office and saying "Well, the El Cortez said that I was too good for them on game X so they backed me off and made me play Roulette" is not a news story, - it's sour grapes. This doesn't bring fear into anyone hearts, but laughter in a "Yeah, Right, @sshole - cry me a River, you were 86-ed" sense.
No player has a God-given or constitutional right to play "table game X" if the pit management deems it AP play or deems that some issue is going on with a particular player. Maybe in New Jersey, but not Nevada.
If a game is defeatable, it gets fixed or pulled from the floor, and advertising that it is defeatable gets it yanked very quickly to end the saga. If a game is doing poorly for the house, either through losses or lack of action, it is gone, no news story here.
Quote: ncfatcatIf I was an AP player my motto would be "make money in the dark" Who needs other casinos and State and Federal Taxing authorities knowing what I am doing?
If I was an AP player my motto would be "its 2012, I'm gonna come clean with everyone. The lying is really eating away at me".
Ken
from a casino get out of there as soon as possible. Keep
your head down, don't let them get a good pic of you and
head for the door. Don't argue, don't make a scene, at
this point there's nothing you can say to make them change
their minds. Don't touch security, don't run, just leave. They
want you to go ballistic so they can detain you for the police.
Give them nothing. You don't want them emailing your pics
and details of what you did to every casino in the state.
Quote: EvenBobFrom everything I've read, and its a lot, if you're banned
from a casino get out of there as soon as possible. Keep
your head down, don't let them get a good pic of you and
head for the door. Don't argue, don't make a scene, at
this point there's nothing you can say to make them change
their minds. Don't touch security, don't run, just leave. They
want you to go ballistic so they can detain you for the police.
Give them nothing. You don't want them emailing your pics
and details of what you did to every casino in the state.
Probably very good advice. Make a scene and they remember you for a looooong time. Be polite, leave quietly, get them to nickname you "Nice Guy AZ" so even if you do come back they might, might give you a benefit of a doubt. Like when I worked for the DUI lawyers, hald the cases the people made it worse on themselves by being jerks.
Quote: AZDuffmanProbably very good advice. Make a scene and they remember you for a looooong time. Be polite, leave quietly, get them to nickname you "Nice Guy AZ" so even if you do come back they might, might give you a benefit of a doubt.
Exactly. Don't even ask why you're being banned,
they won't tell you. They'll say things like 'You know
why', wanting you to give it away. Just say OK, and
leave. Don't even cash in your chips, have somebody
do that for you later. Head for the exit at a brisk walk
and don't look back. Never ever think the police will
help you, never tell the casino to call the police. The
cops in every city that has a casino are 100% on
the casinos side and 100% against yours. They get
calls almost every day and they're on a first name
basis with security. They'll just assume you're a crook
and treat you accordingly.
Quote: EvenBobThe cops in every city that has a casino are 100% on
the casinos side and 100% against yours. They get
calls almost every day and they're on a first name
basis with security. They'll just assume you're a crook
and treat you accordingly.
If you are banned from a casino property and you don't leave or you return, you *are* a crook. Returning to private property after you have been evicted is probably criminal trespass. Here's a good primer from a Vegas law firm:
Vegas trespass charges
Quote: EvenBobExactly. Don't even ask why you're being banned,
they won't tell you. They'll say things like 'You know
why', wanting you to give it away. Just say OK, and
leave. Don't even cash in your chips, have somebody
do that for you later. Head for the exit at a brisk walk
and don't look back. Never ever think the police will
help you, never tell the casino to call the police. The
cops in every city that has a casino are 100% on
the casinos side and 100% against yours. They get
calls almost every day and they're on a first name
basis with security. They'll just assume you're a crook
and treat you accordingly.
The chip thing I wonder about. My assumption would be they would escort you to cash-in then escort you out. Again simply because if you are being polite they do not want a scene anymore than you want to make one. To take chips means you will be back to cash them.
Here is one question, suppose they back you off, are you booted from the entire property or just the casino floor? Can you go to the restauraunt attached to the casino to get a sandwich you like?
Quote: MathExtremistIf you are banned from a casino property and you don't leave or you return, you *are* a crook.
My point was, even if you think the casino is
100% wrong and you want to tell your 'side'
to the cops, they won't care. They'll take the
casinos side every time because they can ban
you any time they like for no reason at all. I
learned this when I had the bar. Some drunk
wouldn't leave and when the cops arrived they
would always argue that they had their rights,
and the cops always said "not on private property
you don't".
Quote: AZDuffmanHere is one question, suppose they back you off, are you booted from the entire property or just the casino floor? Can you go to the restauraunt attached to the casino to get a sandwich you like?
Depending on the management, you could be backed off their entire GROUP of properties. I know somebody who was banned from one Harrah's for being belligerent and he can no longer go to ANY Harrah's/Caesars property ANYWHERE!!!
Quote: Paigowdan
If a game is defeatable, it gets fixed or pulled from the floor, and advertising that it is defeatable gets it yanked very quickly to end the saga. If a game is doing poorly for the house, either through losses or lack of action, it is gone, no news story here.
Good point, Dan. When it was discovered that EZ Baccarat Dragon Bet was countable, and Caesars properties were getting hit somewhere, in St Louis I believe, they shut down ALL games company-wide, reset the max to $25, and reopened. Since then, I've only seen that bet at $25+ at one casino (Hollywood in Lawrenceburg), and that's at a $100 max.
I restrained from posting on this topic, as the OP obviously did not understand the sarcasm and reacted in a ridiculous manner to the first response. However, unless the casino is constantly targeted for bad behavior toward customers or is in a state that is generally opposed to gambling, the media will do NOTHING to help the player. In fact, there could be a backlash if you're not careful.
Ken
Quote: mrjjjLet me ask this. If a person gets banned, does that mean they can NEVER come back, not even 10 years later?
Ken
Not an expert on this, so hopefully FleaStiff or someone will correct me if I'm wrong...
I think it depends on a lot of things. Casinos are changing hands all the time, and I can see a situation where a smaller casino gets bought out by a larger group. The property may then "unban" you since it was the group that did it, or the management may suggest you stay banned. This could potentially get you banned from a larger group without anything done.
My guess if playing conditions change at a given casino, unless you were doing something completely illegal (like stealing), you could get unbanned at a later date. But don't count on it... just try not to get banned in the first place.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe chip thing I wonder about. My assumption would be they would escort you to cash-in then escort you out.
You should try and avoid it. From what I've read,
its the only place they can take a straight on pic
of your face, at the cage. Ceilings are low in the
cage and the cameras are in the same location
as they are in a bank.
Quote: AZDuffmanHere is one question, suppose they back you off, are you booted from the entire property or just the casino floor? Can you go to the restauraunt attached to the casino to get a sandwich you like?
I've told this story a few times here. I was banned from
the Klondike (Vegas) in 2006 for winning $400 in 20min at BJ and
I wasn't even counting. I wasn't read the trespass act,
and I didn't say a word, just went to the line for the
buffet where my wife had a free meal coupon. 5min
later, here comes the suit that banned me and when I
showed him the coupon, he tore it up and said he was
calling the police if we didn't leave. I was never trespassed.
I didn't care because it was a dump anyway and we were
never coming back. They closed for good later that summer.
Bans can be for periods of time, however most are considered to be indefinite. If you have been banned and you are caught on the premises, you will usually just get an escort off of the property. If you are arrested the case is usually dismissed.
If you feel as though you have been treated unfairly, then you should contact a gaming control agent.
Quote: mrjjjLet me ask this. If a person gets banned, does that mean they can NEVER come back, not even 10 years later?
If you get banned because of card counting or
because they think you can beat one of their
games, its forever.
Quote: KeyserThere are different types of bans. For example, the casino may kindly ask that you no longer play table games, but welcome you to play slots. Other bans include being read the trespass act, preventing you from legally being able to set foot on the property.
Bans can be for periods of time, however most are considered to be indefinite. If you have been banned and you are caught on the premises, you will usually just get an escort off of the property. If you are arrested the case is usually dismissed.
Very nice. An answer....
A) Staying on the subject.
B) Not insulting the author.
C) Direct & to the point.
Ken
Quote: AZDuffmanThe chip thing I wonder about. My assumption would be they would escort you to cash-in then escort you out. Again simply because if you are being polite they do not want a scene anymore than you want to make one. To take chips means you will be back to cash them.
Here is one question, suppose they back you off, are you booted from the entire property or just the casino floor? Can you go to the restauraunt attached to the casino to get a sandwich you like?
Yeah, anytime someone is ousted, whether for 12hr or indefinate, we escort them to the Cage for cash out. At our place ousted means ousted. No games, no hotel, no concerts, no fireworks in the parking lot, no buffet, and that extends to all of our properties, not just the one where you ran into trouble. If you get booted for, say, counting, chances are you'll just be booted from BJ but can do any other thing in the casino.
Quote: mrjjjLet me ask this. If a person gets banned, does that mean they can NEVER come back, not even 10 years later?
Ken
Depends. Sometimes we put a limit on it, be it 12hr, 24hr, 1 month, 6 month or a year. For indefinate bannings, you are allowed to apply for rescindation after a year, which is looked at by the higher ups and they determine whether or not you can come back. That's for both voluntary and involuntary exclusions. I don't know how corporate casinos handle theirs...
Ken
Quote: KeyserHonestly, I don't know why you're allowed to even post on this forum. You are an infection of ignorance that insults other forum members.
"that insults other forum members" >>> Nice try. I know on EVERY board where the line is so I can tip-toe around. Foul language? I insult nobody and you know it.
Ken
Quote: EvenBobYou should try and avoid it. From what I've read,
its the only place they can take a straight on pic
of your face, at the cage. Ceilings are low in the
cage and the cameras are in the same location
as they are in a bank.
Don't get blindsided by that thinking. The Cage is a good spot, but facials are possible everywhere. Even if the camera over your table or even the entire pit isn't that great, we can get you from slots, from the restaurant, across the floor from the gift shop, even while your sitting and steaming inside your car. Hell, we've even gotten pics on patrons that had stopped at the gas station down the street. If you can see the casino, assume we can see you.
Quote: EvenBobIf you get banned because of card counting or
because they think you can beat one of their
games, its forever.
This is true, although it's usually for that particular game. Get branded as a counter/AP and you can consider your play time over. Feel free to visit us at the buffet, though ;)
I assume you're talking about mrjjj.Quote: KeyserHonestly, I don't know why you're allowed to even post on this forum. You are an infection of ignorance that insults other forum members.
I just re-read all of his posts in this thread and have failed to find any post that warranted such a response.
Of course, I'd have to ask why you'd want to continue to patronize them after you got banned.
To cash in your reward points and/or buffet coupon? If they suspect you of cheating, then it is not unreasonable for them to cancel your ill-gotten rewards and coupons.
So just leave.
Understood. Perhaps you should use the quote feature to preserve the things you're complaining about.Quote: KeyserThat's because he edited them after I posted the complaint. There are plenty of examples in other threads.
Quote: KeyserThat's because he edited them after I posted the complaint. There are plenty of examples in other threads.
LOL...I edited them...yeah...okay. Nothing was edited. My God, the agenda is strong with this guy. Go into the light Keyser and PLEASE stop arguing with me. Stay on your side of the fence and everything will be fine. I'm not asking for much.
Ken :)
Quote: DJTeddyBearCan they ban you from the non-casino portions of the facility? .
Why can't people realize any business can
ban you anytime they want. I once saw
a local buffet ban a fat guy for eating too
much. He'd come in for lunch, eat, read
a paper till the dinner menu was laid out,
and eat again. After a couple times of
doing this, they banned him for life, as
was their right.
Quote: DJTeddyBearUnderstood. Perhaps you should use the quote feature to preserve the things you're complaining about.
Not to mention, wouldn't there be quotes from me on OTHER members posts? Where are those? Let me guess Keyser, I 'edited' other members posts as well. (lol)
This guy is something else.
Ken
Why don't you attention whore somewhere else?
Quote: KeyserMrJjj.,
Why don't you attention whore somewhere else?
I'm responding to posts that are ADDRESSED to me. What you want is......to attack me and then I run away and hide, aint gonna happen. Thats what you are looking for. Do you notice something odd? You keep coming at me, over and over and over again. Please leave me alone sir.
Ken
was arrested over 50 times for trespass in the late
70's in AC, 25 of them at one casino. She also got
away with it a lot by wearing slight disguises.
Trespass is only a misdemeanor, so you just pay a
fine. If you have a winning method of play, which she
did, it was worth it because of the times she didn't
get caught.
If you're gonna quote me, the least you can do is not edit it to make me look like an idiot.Quote: EvenBobWhy can't people realize any business canQuote: DJTeddyBearCan they ban you from the non-casino portions of the facility? .
ban you anytime they want.
Yeah, I suppose I should have put that opening phrase in a quote, but I was answering that question, as can be easily seen by anyone with any intelligence, here.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf you're gonna quote me, the least you can do is not edit it to make me look like an idiot.
In a private message, EvenBob explained that it wasn't his intention to put me in a bad light, or even to explain things to me.
He just responded to my opening phrase, much the way I responded myself in that post.
---
Bob -
Sorry for accusing you of anything.
