Was I in the Wrong?

I regularly play blackjack at Casino de Montreal in Montreal, despite the not-so-great rules, due to the monopoly that the Quebec Government has on gambling. Anyway, there are many players that have superstitions about "the run of the cards" and how playing that extra spot could change the entire deck to a losing one. Obviously, no basis in reality but if I am about to join a table and a bettor nicely asks me to let him play alone to conserve the order of the cards, and there are other open tables, there's no way I'd reject. I mean it's their business to do what they like, and if it doesn't harm me, then so be it. What happened two weeks ago was different, though. I was in a similar situation, down so far for the night, when I started to sit down at a table where just one other man was playing. As soon as I placed my bet, the man, who was already playing two spots, says "No, my table. You can't play. Get off."
Hated the way he said it, wasn't in a mood, so I ignored him and asked the dealer if this was a "no-mid shoe entry table". She clearly felt uncomfortable but told me it wasn't so I sat down and put one spot. The man took away one of his spots to preserve the "run of the cards." The first hand, I got a blackjack and the man said "That was my hand, idiot." I still ignored him but at this point I actually got mad...he actually started name-calling; I put an extra bet down so now there were three hands total. The man cursed, took out his last bet, so that there were two hands left, and waited. The hand right after, I took back my bet...no more run of the cards, back to just one bet. Now at this point, if I wasn't a fairly big and threatening looking guy I'm sure he would've tried to hit me, but hey, I'm the most respectful person until someone looks me in the eye and talks to me like an idiot. Either way, I kept adjusting my bets for the next minute so that he'd have to adjust his to "preserve the run of the cards" until he got fed up and just left.

I know I was really immature, no need to point that out. If it makes any of you feel better, I did end up losing for the night :) But was I in the wrong to a. play on the table after he was rude to me about leaving, and b. to provoke him after he called me an idiot for getting the blackjack? Like I said before, I've gladly given in to people's superstitions if they were nice or even neutral about it. Thanks for any comments.

You have the right to play wherever you want as long as it's permitted by the casino. If it were me, I may have sat at the table and watched him finish the shoe - you can't really lose that way. If the other guy finishes the shoe by himself and loses, you can show him what an idiot he is for believing that there is some kind of order to the cards. And if he ends up winning, you look like a nice guy. I wouldn't say you were in the wrong. Casinos are for entertainment... if you're not winning money, you've got to have your fun somehow.

If there was now where else to play the guy should have known he just has to accept another player, no way you were wrong. I suppose you shouldnt have gone on to provoke him further, but you get a pass with me. I got disgusted with racetracks partly from the crazies like this you would run into; havent had it happen in BJ but I am a newbie at that.

Sorry if I misled anyone; there were other empty tables, but I chose to spite him because of how he talked to me. I agree that I shouldn't have provoked further; shows poor etiquette, but definitely nowhere near as poor as his.

I would have played there just to spite him,,and totally agree with what you did. If someone asks politely I dont mind not playing a few hands or going to another table, but if he is rude, I would play there and get in his face. Its happened to me many a time, (have been playing for over 20 years) I am not even big in size, only 5/1...lol...but they can hardly hit me in the casino and get away with it.
Provoking him further was also ok, because he started the name calling first so once again you did the absolutely right thing.
If anything I would have provoked him more. Cheers

I agree 100% with the OP. I would have placed bets on 3 boxes for the 1st hand, that would screw him and his rudeness immediately LOL

Yes, you were wrong! The moment that he called you an idiot, you should have played three hands right away to bust up his "run of the cards". If he's going to call you an idiot, you may as well have some fun and actually deserve the shade he 's throwing at you.

Eff him. I would have done whatever I could to piss him off.

Some people need to be adjusted.

People don't want you to "ruin the shoe" but the tendency to allow someone to enter has to do with how the cards are doing. I think it's pretty common etiquette to ask existing players in a shoe dealt game whether you can join or not. Sometimes some players will want you to wait until the cards turn bad. Personally, I don't care as I know a run of cards may turn bad at any moment (unless the count is ridiculously in the player's favor).

There was nothing wrong with what you did. The player was rude. I am sure if he asked you nicely to hold back you would have, but he was completely rude. When someone gets rude on you, I tend to make the same behaviour to mess him up.

Absolutely you were in the right. If he wanted to play by himself, he should have gone to high limit tables.

You were not wrong.

That said, I often ask if there are objections before I sit down.

Quote: s2dbaker

Yes, you were wrong! The moment that he called you an idiot, you should have played three hands right away to bust up his "run of the cards". If he's going to call you an idiot, you may as well have some fun and actually deserve the shade he 's throwing at you.

Great answer.

Quote: boymimbo

When someone gets rude on you, I tend to make the same behaviour to mess him up.

I once had an older "gentlemen" take a swing at me (from his chair) for merely congratulating him on a fairly-large blackjack in the higher-limit section, on my way out. Kept walking.

At the "big wheel" downstairs, where i like to try for the tips back after a good day, i mentioned it to the dealer. (Is the spinner called the spinner?) Unphased, he noted that it's really best to mind your own business.

You probably did that moron a favor and saved him some money. Anyone dumb enough to believe in the run of the cards and then be as rude as he was does not belong in a public place anyway. Funny ,I wonder what he would have said if you sat down and he started to win. Maybe he would have thought you were his lucky charm and put you in the trunk of his car like they did to Mr Chau in the Hangover.

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You absolutely did wrong. When he called you an idiot you should have said you would have called him an asshole if he weren't too little to object.

If anything s2dbaker is right that you were too nice ;)

Great story - I try to sometimes spite mean people but I'm often less successful as my wife has a shame limit.

Quote: lifeislife

Sorry if I misled anyone; there were other empty tables, but I chose to spite him because of how he talked to me. I agree that I shouldn't have provoked further; shows poor etiquette, but definitely nowhere near as poor as his.

No one is going to tell you that you don't have a moral right to play a game, but there are crazy people in a casino. If you want to poke badgers, you will eventually get bitten. I think the real question is it worth it to assert your rights and then get sucker punched in a hallway. Personally, I don't think it is.

I think the polite thing to do would have been to ask the other player(s) before sitting down in the first place (but I think you know this). The rude guy did not have a right to bar you, but if you had asked first, all the mid-shoe entry drama could have been avoided.

The hell with him. You should have put bets out on the rest of the table and asked him if he was still going to play his two spots!

Yeah, I usually ask before I sit down, especially on blackjack and even sometimes on Casino War. That being said, sometimes I don't, because I forget, and when that happens the player's response shouldn't be so disproportionate.

Quote: s2dbaker

Yes, you were wrong! The moment that he called you an idiot, you should have played three hands right away to bust up his "run of the cards". If he's going to call you an idiot, you may as well have some fun and actually deserve the shade he 's throwing at you.

hehe, wouldn't have thought about that, but absolutely perfect.

People can be polite, rude or downright offensive. I have no problem waiting, but if a person isn't willing to show me at least a little respect, they aren't getting much from me.

You were spon on.
1. NO player sets the house rules. They will try like hell at times, but no, they do not.
2. If some player gives you shit (- and they may indeed try as you have seen), you may respond, as your hands are not tied and you do not have to take it.
3. Consider requests ONLY if a fellow player is courteous to you. If a player TELLS you "Buddy, I said this is MY table," you tell him "No, it is not, - it is OUR table, and if you don't like it, then YOU move!" - and you play as you see fit.