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EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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November 2nd, 2011 at 11:54:07 PM permalink
No implosion for the 60 year old Sahara. Instead its getting
a makeover and will reopen without the roller coaster. Can
you imagine this happening even 4 years ago? You don't
have to wait for the future, its here. Do you like Circus Circus and
the Riviera? You better, cause they ain't going anywhere.

Sahara
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 3rd, 2011 at 2:46:10 AM permalink
Hiring an architect and getting permits are relatinely cheap.

I'll believe it when the construction crews start working.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 3rd, 2011 at 5:11:58 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I'll believe it when the construction crews start working.



Given the many half-finished and abandoned projects in Vegas, I'll believe it when they stop working. I can't picture any banks at this time loaning money to dump into the Sahara.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
Joined: May 5, 2010
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November 3rd, 2011 at 5:13:46 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Hiring an architect and getting permits are relatinely cheap.

I'll believe it when the construction crews start working.



Agreed. I don't believe it was the ROLLER COASTER that was holding that place back from reaching its full potential. Sahara is a classic property, and I sure hope it does reopen, but the property has more problems than just that. Furthermore, it doesn't really solve the Circus Circus/Riviera dilemma. Those properties are still significantly farther south. Now, if this, Fontainebleu AND Echelon or Las Vegas Plaza project gets going, THEN I think this could ease Sahara's woes.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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November 3rd, 2011 at 7:35:17 AM permalink
If I may quote myself:

Quote:

1) Concerning development, especially on the Strip, post 2007: Whatever happens, nothing happens (Shamelessly taken from Asimov's Laws of Hollywood).



There's a reason why that's the First of Nareed's Vegas Laws :)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 3rd, 2011 at 11:02:05 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Given the many half-finished and abandoned projects in Vegas, I'll believe it when they stop working.

What I meant was, I'll believe they intend to re-open when the crews start working.

On that note, with the abandoned projects you mentioned, I think you meant that you'll believe it when they finish working and re-open....
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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November 3rd, 2011 at 1:54:16 PM permalink
I dunno, I think its a pretty good idea. Buy a huge Strip
casino for 350mil, put another 150mil into it, and you have
a working Vegas Strip casino for a good deal less that it
would have cost to build a new one. Companies did a lot
of this during the Great Depression, renovate instead of
build. Makes sense.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
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November 3rd, 2011 at 3:11:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Given the many half-finished and abandoned projects in Vegas, I'll believe it when they stop working. I can't picture any banks at this time loaning money to dump into the Sahara.



Banks may or may not be loaning the money. The Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities market (CMBS) has been pretty strong because Mom and Pop fled the stock market for bond funds. The hunt for yield has increased demand for deals like this. Banks may have initially made the loan but it was a deal already sold the second the check would be cashed. I am guessing even at 500MM it is below replacement cost for 1600 rooms and a casino. It's definitely risky but that risk (the debt)is now in your granny's bond fund:0
The owner runs a 4.5BB RE fund, at say 4:1 leverage they only put up 130 MM between the property and renovations (if they get done). Probably an aggressive bet for them but they have a lot of mellow industrial property for the steady eddy income.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." E.E. Cummings
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 3rd, 2011 at 3:28:42 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Given the many half-finished and abandoned projects in Vegas, I'll believe it when they stop working. I can't picture any banks at this time loaning money to dump into the Sahara.



Where is the Teamsters Pension Fund when you need them?

On the serious side, I am glad to see the roller coaster go. I hate coasters and thought it made the place look stupid. My thought is that Sahara would do best not to try to go head-to-head with the Bellagios of the world and try to be a sort of cross between the strip and Freemont St. Smaller showrooms with a more intimate feel for acts on their way up or back. Smaller but more intimate, less intimidating casino floor. One-to-one service a 5,000 room place can't match. Total investment will be so much lower they can have a nice, middle-of-the-market place. Toyota made a fortune chasing that market.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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November 3rd, 2011 at 3:31:17 PM permalink
Phil Ruffin bough the TI for less than $450 million cash after selling the New Frontier for over a billion at the top of the market. Nobody is loaning even $150 million for a startup in a failed location. That area will continue to be dead for many years to come. Room rates are still low and are not getting any better by adding rooms to the market.

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