A winner already

Heading for the Pearl River Resort in Mississippi for a golf tournament this weekend. As I've written before, the golf is great, but it is in the middle of nowhere. Nothing to do there but play golf, drink and gamble - a perfect short getaway.

This month is both mine and my wifes birthday month. This Casino sent additional offers for this month because of this and we have ended up with a whole days bankroll worth of freeplay and matchplay!! I love starting the trip playing with their money!

My only concern is that this is my third trip there and I was very lucky the first two trips. Hopefully, this good luck will continue.

Quote: timberjim

I love starting the trip playing with their money!

Unless all the comps were earned with action you were
rated on where you won, all they're doing is giving you
back part of your losses so you can lose it again. Its
not 'their money' at all.

Quote: EvenBob

all they're doing is giving you back part of your losses so you can lose it again. Its not 'their money' at all.

Once its been lost to them, its theirs. And getting it back again as a comp sure beats not getting it back again as a comp.

Happy birthdays to you and Mrs. Timber, Jim! Have a great time. I look forward to reading about your gaming there.

Quote: FleaStiff

Once its been lost to them, its theirs. And getting it back again as a comp sure beats not getting it back again as a comp.

POTM!

Quote: FleaStiff

Once its been lost to them, its theirs. And getting it back again as a comp sure beats not getting it back again as a comp.

You're playing a semantics game. If you steal $100
from me and give me back $20, you're not giving
me 'your' money. Its the same in the casino. If
you lost $100 and a minute later the pit gave you
$20 of it back, its your money he's handing you.
Just because they don't give it back for a month
doesn't make it any less your money they're returning.
If it was actually the casinos money, there
would be no comp system. They have to take money
from you before they can give part of it back. If you
win, it doesn't matter, they'll get it next time.

So that's like when you buy in for $100, win $50, pocket your original $100, and now play with the $50 because it's "casino money".

I believe timber jim said he was lucky on these occasions. It would be possible to make 2 trips there, come out ahead both times, and get comps too on theoretical losses, to start the third time around.

My wife is a perfect example of the farce of comps.
She'll lose $500 in the slots and be tickled to death
they gave a buffet comp for $18. I point out that
she paid $500 for a buffet, what a deal, and she'll
tell me to shut up. Thats why I don't have a card,
comps are an insult to me. I refuse to play the game.
When I played BJ for decades, guys were always
whining about lunches, and packs of cigarettes,
and arguing about 'what can I get now'. It made
me sick, it was embarrassing.

Quote: EvenBob

You're playing a semantics game. If you steal $100
from me and give me back $20, you're not giving
me 'your' money. Its the same in the casino.

No it's not the same in the casino. The casino does not 'steal' your money when you lose. Are you stealing their money when you win?

Quote: algle

No it's not the same in the casino. The casino does not 'steal' your money when you lose. Are you stealing their money when you win?

It doesn't matter. They still have to 'get' your money,
before they can give it back in a comp. You can call
it yours or theirs till you're blue in the face, thats how
comps work. They take YOUR money, and then give
a percentage of YOUR money back to you. The fact
that they've tricked you into thinking its their money
shows you that it works.

It IS Their money as soon as you lose it in a bet. It's gone. It's no longer yours. If you never go back again, the casino still has it.

Comps generally work as a percentage of expected losses rather than actual losses.

Never play for comps, but take them when offered. That's my view.

Quote: EvenBob

It doesn't matter. They still have to 'get' your money,
before they can give it back in a comp. You can call
it yours or theirs till you're blue in the face, thats how
comps work. They take YOUR money, and then give
a percentage of YOUR money back to you. The fact
that they've tricked you into thinking its their money
shows you that it works.

OK Bob, if I go into a casino for the first time in my life, bet $100 on Red and win, whose money have I won?

Quote: algle

OK Bob, if I go into a casino for the first time in my life, bet $100 on Red and win, whose money have I won?

Depends on what you do next. Its only yours if you leave
and never come back.

Quote: EvenBob

Depends on what you do next. Its only yours if you leave
and never come back.

Nope, it is yours. Right there and then, it is YOUR money. People don't always think like this. You can now bet your money on roulette, or a steak dinner, or keep it till next week and spin again.

Quote: EvenBob

Depends on what you do next. Its only yours if you leave
and never come back.

Bob, the question was: "WHOSE money have I won?"

Quote: thecesspit

Nope, it is yours. Right there and then, it is YOUR money. People don't always think like this. You can now bet your money on roulette, or a steak dinner, or keep it till next week and spin again.

I disagree. Its only yours if you never go back, or
have the edge and never give it back. Everything
else is just semantics, to make the player feel better.
If you lost $2000 this year so far, and won $200 today,
you just got back some of your 2k. Anything else is
just creative accounting. If you keep going back, its
never really yours, its a just a loan till next time. People
perfectly well understand that if they have a mortgage,
the bank owns their home. But in gambling, hey,
lets just forget about last time, its another day. No
its not...

I have never had a comp card but I am slowly considering getting one. Do I really need it? No, I'll buy my own dinner but maybe I should get one regardless......still thinking about it.

Ken

Quote: thecesspit

Nope, it is yours. Right there and then....

Quote: EvenBob

I disagree. Its only yours if you never go back, or have the edge and never give it back.

I'm trying to figure this part out. Two issues come immediately to mind:

(1) If on your first visit to a casino you walk out ahead and plan never to return, just when does it become "your" money? As soon as you declare that plan? If you go back ten years later and place a single wager, does that mean you never won money and had it as "yours" in the first place?

(2) By corollary, I suppose, if you start out by losing money to the casino, then you haven't really lost it right then, because it's not yet "theirs." You have to stay away and never try to win it back in order to view it as a loss. Is that right?

Quote: Doc

(1) If on your first visit to a casino you walk out ahead and plan never to return, just when does it become "your" money?

When you never return and stick to it. Its just a loan,
otherwise. You're playing a negative expectation game.


(2) By corollary, I suppose, if you start out by losing money to the casino, then you haven't really lost it right then, because it's not yet "theirs."

That depends. In the end, if you play long enough, you'll lose
at right around the house edge. That money is theirs, you'll
never get it back. As long as you keep playing, mine and yours
are irrelevant terms. I think this way because I've owned brick
and mortar businesses and its real easy to play games in your
head as to whats really going on with the money.

Evenbob,

Keep in mind that you also get comps when you win.

Quote: Keyser

Evenbob,Keep in mind that you also get comps when you win.

Ya think? If you'd actually read my posts, you'd see
I covered that.

Quote: EvenBob

I've owned brick and mortar businesses and its real easy to play games in your head as to whats really going on with the money.

Hence the past tense usage of the word "owned".

This argument is ridiculous. It's very simple:

If the money is in your pocket: It's your money!
If the money is in the casino's pocket: It's their money!

In the case of the casino offering free play, it's not your money until the money is in your hands. The hope for the casino of course is that the addict in you will put in cash once the freeplay is done, which of course, the great majority does.

This is a strange definition of ownership Bob. I don't consider my salary "loaned" to me even if I spend some of it at the firm where I work (OK, my employer doesn't sell consumer products, but I worked at McDonald's back in the day so apply the example there). I don't like income taxes much, but I don't even consider money that will ultimately be taxed as "loaned" either. Nor money from the sale of a used car that will be a down payment for a new one. Etc, etc, etc.

Anyways, you're definitely entitled to your definition of the value or lack-there-of for comps, but the only thing I'll note is that IMHO if you turn down comps you should turn down free drinks, free valet parking, coupons, sales, etc. Like comps those are all based on expected losses, at the property if not at the game, and like comps they all don't require actual losses.

Quote: boymimbo

In the case of the casino offering free play, it's not your money until the money is in your hands. The hope for the casino of course is that the addict in you will put in cash once the freeplay is done, which of course, the great majority does.

That's nitpicking, but fine. Appended as follows:

If the money is in your pocket (or if you can cash it out and put in your pocket, as in regular credits on a slot machine or chips): It's your money!
If the money is in the casino's pocket (or in the chip rack): It's their money!
In the case of free play, non-cashable chips or bets on the felt: Ownership to be determined once bets are resolved

This really is black and white in my opinion. If I can take the money out of the casino its my money.

Quote: cardshark

If I can take the money out of the casino its my money.

That's what the Bellagio Bandit thought.

:-)

Quote: kp

Quote: cardshark

If I can take the money out of the casino its my money.

That's what the Bellagio Bandit thought.

He didn't take money out of the casino. He took cheques. Ones that he couldn't redeem for money.

Quote: EvenBob

My wife is a perfect example of the farce of comps. She'll lose $500 in the slots and be tickled to death they gave a buffet comp for $18. I point out that she paid $500 for a buffet, what a deal, and she'll tell me to shut up.

You are fortunate that is all she does to you. She is quite capable of the math involved, let her enjoy that 18.00 buffet.

Quote: Evenbob

My wife is a perfect example of the farce of comps. She'll lose $500 in the slots and be tickled to death they gave a buffet comp for $18. I point out that she paid $500 for a buffet, what a deal, and she'll tell me to shut up.

Isn't the free buffet a better deal than nothing at all?

I don't see the comps as being the problem here. It appears that LOSING is the real problem, not the comps!

Quote: sunrise089

IMHO if you turn down comps you should turn down free drinks, free valet parking, coupons,

I don't drink when I play for real. When I play for fun, I tip
for every drink, its not free. I tip valet. I don't use coupons.

Quote: Keyser

Isn't the free buffet a better deal than nothing at all?

Just don't act like its 'free'. Thats what everybody does, wheeee,
free comps. You paid dearly for them, their anything but free.

If you're winning the comps are a bonus.

If you're losing the comps are a bonus.

Quote: EvenBob

I don't drink when I play for real. When I play for fun, I tip
for every drink, its not free. I tip valet. I don't use coupons.

his point is you are not paying to have your car valeted or paying for the actual drink itself. its a bonus provided by the casino. whether you choose to tip or not for either service is up to you.

Let me ask this and NO, I do not want any arguing. My biggest issue has to do with taxes. Can having/using a card (not sure how to say this), make your tax situation worse as opposed to if you did not use one at all?

Ken

Quote: rudeboyoi

his point is you are not paying to have your car valeted or paying for the actual drink itself. its a bonus provided by the casino. whether you choose to tip or not for either service is up to you.

Paying is paying, whats the difference.

Quote: mrjjj

Let me ask this and NO, I do not want any arguing. My biggest issue has to do with taxes. Can having/using a card (not sure how to say this), make your tax situation worse as opposed to if you did not use one at all?

You betcha. They have all your info in the computer and the IRS can
demand it anytime they like. And they do.

Quote: mrjjj

Let me ask this and NO, I do not want any arguing. My biggest issue has to do with taxes. Can having/using a card (not sure how to say this), make your tax situation worse as opposed to if you did not use one at all?

Ken

if its a gift, it is taxfree if under a certain amount ($30,000?). now the question is what constitutes a gift? standard comps should count as gifts but i think i recall reading something like getting entries for a drawing and then winning on that drawing doesnt constitute as a gift and is therefore taxable.

Quote: EvenBob

You betcha. They have all your info in the computer and the IRS can
demand it anytime they like. And they do.

Yep, forget about me getting a card (lol). Ignore my email BTW, thanks.

Ken

Quote: rudeboyoi

if its a gift, it is taxfree if under a certain amount ($30,000?). now the question is what constitutes a gift? standard comps should count as gifts but i think i recall reading something like getting entries for a drawing and then winning on that drawing doesnt constitute as a gift and is therefore taxable.

I'm not talking about taxes on the comps.

Ken

Mr. Jjj.,

I doubt your winning enough to worry. If you're only winning a thousand or so here or there then you have no worries.

Your players card is not required if you're filing as a professional gambler. If you use your card sometimes, fine. If you don't use it sometimes, fine.
As long as you keep an accurate gambling log that has the following info, then you are fine.

Name and Address of the casino
Date/time
Game played -type of wager
table number
at least two people at the casino that were with you such as the dealer/ and a pit crew member
Amount won/loss.

If you received a copy of form W2-G or 1099, so did the IRS. If you didn't receive won from the casino, then neither did the IRS. It's unusual to get one for table game wins.

Quote: mrjjj

Yep, forget about me getting a card (lol). Ignore my email BTW, thanks.Ken

In fact, technically you're supposed to claim all comps
as income on your taxes. Everything they give you is
considered taxable by the IRS. Quoting the Wiz:

"Chapter 3 of Tax Help for Gamblers by Jean Scott and Marissa Chien deals with the topic of taxation of comps. The general rule is that if the player earned or won the comp, it is taxable."

Quote: EvenBob

You betcha. They have all your info in the computer and the IRS can
demand it anytime they like. And they do.

But according to you everyone is a loser anyway so what's to fear from the IRS?

Quote: ncfatcat

But according to you everyone is a loser anyway so what's to fear from the IRS?

Even losers are supposed to pay taxes on winnings. And comps.
Technically, you're supposed to keep a gambling diary and if your
ahead for a quarter, you have to pay taxes on your winnings. But
its not enforced because its a nightmare to make people do it.

Do you make you wife declare that $18 buffet as income on her taxes?

Wow. Back from our trip and this thread certainly took a turn.

As far as things like comps and free play - I never play for them. I play where I have a positive experience and enjoy playing. But I also enjoy getting "free" things.
I have never paid for a room or show and only rarely a meal on about 12 different trips to Vegas. Plus free play and various promotions. I got to attend a private afternoon of golf instruction given by Tiger Woods. I am typing this message on a laptop purchased with a $750 gift certificate to Sears given to me at a Cearsars Palace promotion. Perhaps the one I will remember the best is giving my son his own room/suite at the Venetian when I took him there to celebrate surviving two tours in Iraq and Afghainistan without a scratch - I didn't see him for most of the trip and he had a ball and still talks about that room. I have registered at as many as three hotels at once to recieve these various promotions. These things are part of my "Vegas experience" and I enjoy them.

On to my weekend at the Silverstar. Golf was great. My highlight was almost driving a par 4 with my 3 wood and yes it was downhill and with the wind but it was still a great shot. No winnings at the tournament for me or my team.

I took my $200 in free play starting Thursday night. Had to play it all on slots - no match play. Got lucky and turned it into about $350. Hit the tables and played BJ for awhile. $10 table and played for about an hour. Never down or up more than $60. Joined my wife at 3CP and about 15 hands in got a mini royal and I always play the pairs plus!! A good start to the weekend. Went to bed early, as I promised my team I would not stay up all night drinking and gambling and then go out and try to play decent golf. This strategy did'nt work very well. I played like crap on Friday.
Hit the casino again at 6 and played slots again with my wife for awhile. Cashed out a few hundred ahead and headed for the BJ tables. Played for hours and never got more than about $150 up or about $200 down. Finally cashed out about $100 down and a great many Coronas been consumed. Went to bed about 3:30. Played much better golf on Saturday after all the drinking and gambling Friday night.
Awards banquet Sat night and then hit the casino again. Had alot of fun but never could get on any kind of winning streak. Played a little more Sunday AM and headed home.

All in all a very successful trip. I never touched my bankroll and ended up just about $200. My wife lost about $500. Looking forward to the spring tournament already!

Hello Timberjim:

Thanks for the posts on Pearl River.

I am thinking about taking my elder parents over there, just to have something to do and get them out of the house.

Any updates on which hotel to stay at ? Sounds like you prefer the Silver Star ?

thanks...