Is This Really Scamming?
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October 12th, 2011 at 9:48:25 PM
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The Vegas Sun has an article about new ways to cheat
in casinos. Here's one, involving the new roulette terminals:
"Scammers figured out they could convert comp money into real cash without actually betting by covering all the spaces in the game."
How is this 'scamming'? For years, when my wife gets an
offer for $50 or $75 in credits every week on her card, and
she isn't going that week, I use her card on the Bally Roulette
slot machine. I bet red and black at the same time for the
amount of the credits, and cover the zero split in case they
come up, and pocket the cash. Is this cheating? I've done
it dozens of times, so do lots of people, I've seen them.
in casinos. Here's one, involving the new roulette terminals:
"Scammers figured out they could convert comp money into real cash without actually betting by covering all the spaces in the game."
How is this 'scamming'? For years, when my wife gets an
offer for $50 or $75 in credits every week on her card, and
she isn't going that week, I use her card on the Bally Roulette
slot machine. I bet red and black at the same time for the
amount of the credits, and cover the zero split in case they
come up, and pocket the cash. Is this cheating? I've done
it dozens of times, so do lots of people, I've seen them.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 12th, 2011 at 9:57:52 PM
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Well it isnt cheating, but an awful amount of work to make a little money.
October 12th, 2011 at 10:13:51 PM
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Quote: NicksGamingStuffWell it isnt cheating, but an awful amount of work to make a little money.
Nick, it takes less than 30 seconds to bet on red and black,
hit the button and take the cash.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 12th, 2011 at 10:19:31 PM
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What I meant was to earn the points to get the cash back value over time it would take awhile to bet enough to make it worth it, often the roulette machines dont accumulate that many points
October 12th, 2011 at 10:26:53 PM
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Quote: NicksGamingStuffWhat I meant was to earn the points to get the cash back value over time it would take awhile to bet enough to make it worth it, often the roulette machines dont accumulate that many points
The points aren't from the roulette machine. The casino
sends offers in the mail for you to come in on certain days.
The roulette machines are used to turn the points into
cash. The casinos apparently call this a scam. I do know that
for awhile I used Roulette Revolution to get the cash, but
they reprogrammed it so if you bet on red and black at
the same time, it refuses the bet.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 12th, 2011 at 10:45:24 PM
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If all you want to do is cover all 36 numbers, there are many ways that don't involve two complimentary outside bets. $3 on 1-18, $2 on 3rd 12, and $1 on the 19-24 double street does it and only costs $6. Or $1 on the 0/00 split and $9/$6/$3 on the bets above (or just $1 on 19 non-overlapping splits) will guarantee an $18-for-$19 payout. I admit that I've never bothered to try this, but I'd doubt the engineers deliberately coded these games to refuse all such combinations.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 12th, 2011 at 10:52:39 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistIf all you want to do is cover all 36 numbers
The fact they would do it at all is stupid. R/B does it. The point
is to bet your points and get the credit so you can cash out.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 12th, 2011 at 11:27:38 PM
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I do not think it is a scam, it is a fair bet. I think what will happen is video roulette will no longer work since it was abused.
October 13th, 2011 at 1:07:26 AM
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lol definitely not a scam and not the best method to utilize your FSP. lets say you take your $75 and put a $1 in. then you can bet $2 on every number and guarantee to get back $72 so you convert your $75 into $71 cash. if you played it through on at least a 99% video poker machine, you are expected to only lose 75cents or less. if youre getting $75 in FSP, you are probably playing quite a bit as it is so you should be used to swings so i dont understand the point of trying to guarantee yourself a win. might as well try to use it as effectively as possible.
October 13th, 2011 at 10:12:47 AM
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Quote: MathExtremistIf all you want to do is cover all 36 numbers, there are many ways that don't involve two complimentary outside bets. $3 on 1-18, $2 on 3rd 12, and $1 on the 19-24 double street does it and only costs $6. Or $1 on the 0/00 split and $9/$6/$3 on the bets above (or just $1 on 19 non-overlapping splits) will guarantee an $18-for-$19 payout. I admit that I've never bothered to try this, but I'd doubt the engineers deliberately coded these games to refuse all such combinations.
Voisins du zero ($9) + orphelins ($5 split or $8 en plein) + tiers du cylindre ($6) ought to cover everything (assuming single zero). These bets can be made without the racetrack as long as you remember where the chips go. Although, as ME noted, there are lots of ways this could be done, pretty hard to exclude all of them.
Getting back to the OP, it's comp hustling for sure, but whether it's "scamming" really comes down to how fraud is defined, I would think.
October 13th, 2011 at 10:22:38 AM
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"Free play" = Free to spend any way you wish.
If I want to do something nutty like bet it all on the 5-number bet in roulette, that is my right, as it is my right to bet every number. I can also choose to maximize my return by playing a video poker machine with a good paytable. It is in no way scamming.
Jacks or better video poker is by far the best way to "launder" free play, unless you can find a nice video blackjack game with low limits and good rules.
If I want to do something nutty like bet it all on the 5-number bet in roulette, that is my right, as it is my right to bet every number. I can also choose to maximize my return by playing a video poker machine with a good paytable. It is in no way scamming.
Jacks or better video poker is by far the best way to "launder" free play, unless you can find a nice video blackjack game with low limits and good rules.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
October 13th, 2011 at 11:24:43 AM
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Quote: rudeboyoii dont understand the point of trying to guarantee yourself a win. might as well try to use it as effectively as possible.
Isn't walking away EVERY TIME with the $75 cash
in your pocket after one bet about as effective as
you can get? I don't think anybody understands
this. You bet the $75 in credits on R/B, win because
it can't lose, the machine credits the $75 to you and
you cash out and walk away. This is not how the
casino wants you to spend their comp money.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 13th, 2011 at 11:35:46 AM
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Quote: EvenBobIsn't walking away EVERY TIME with the $75 cash
in your pocket after one bet about as effective as
you can get? I don't think anybody understands
this. You bet the $75 in credits on R/B, win because
it can't lose, the machine credits the $75 to you and
you cash out and walk away. This is not how the
casino wants you to spend their comp money.
wheres this magical roulette table you speak of with no 0 or 00?
why would the casino care how you spend YOUR comp money?
to get this money you probably had to have a theoretical loss of about $200 beforehand.
the casino can handle the variance so they should prefer a player plays a method that returns less than optimal such as roulette.
October 13th, 2011 at 11:38:19 AM
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Its not a scam. Using an offer not in the manner someone intends isn't a scam. It's just the law of unintended consequences. I would suspect the number of people taking the fullest advantage are minimal. Besides, it sounds like EB's wife more than makes up for it in her play.
For a player like EvenBob, it makes absolute sense to take the guaranteed cash. He's not there to gamboool it up and accept any variance. However, someone who IS there for more variance and likes to play out their free play, using the free play on a full pay VP machine makes sense for them... they were probably going to feed in $100 anyways to VP, so why not feed it through, and add to their points play, and hope to get that big Royal/4 Aces.
All depends on your goal for walking in a casino.
For a player like EvenBob, it makes absolute sense to take the guaranteed cash. He's not there to gamboool it up and accept any variance. However, someone who IS there for more variance and likes to play out their free play, using the free play on a full pay VP machine makes sense for them... they were probably going to feed in $100 anyways to VP, so why not feed it through, and add to their points play, and hope to get that big Royal/4 Aces.
All depends on your goal for walking in a casino.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
October 13th, 2011 at 2:00:19 PM
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Quote: NicksGamingStuffI do not think it is a scam, it is a fair bet. I think what will happen is video roulette will no longer work since it was abused.
You're absolutely right. Many casinos have already addressed that issue and no longer allow free slot play on roulette machines.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
October 13th, 2011 at 2:43:54 PM
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Various Free Play Straddles are not cheating. The casinos know what is going on. They don't care. They know that half of their battle is getting you in the door and if that free play certificate gets you in the door, they've won even if they have to pay off a sure thing to one side of the straddle. They know that even if you do win and then go to a slot machine and do well there too, you will eventually bring your winnings back with you after the next month's mailers go out. So if occasionally the free play, dinner drinks and slots are on them, thats fine.
October 13th, 2011 at 4:47:32 PM
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Quote: rudeboyoiwheres this magical roulette table you speak of with no 0 or 00?
As I said, you have to cover the zero split with
enough to cover the loss. And the casino does
care, comps aren't given for full value redemption.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 13th, 2011 at 4:48:45 PM
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Quote: thecesspitIts not a scam. Using an offer not in the manner someone intends isn't a scam.
I use it for gas money, waste not want not..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 14th, 2011 at 6:59:48 AM
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A lot of casinos don't allow you to use free play on roulette machines. Many won't even allow you to use free play on video poker machines. My local casino won't even let you access the free play unless you make at least one bet with your own money!
To answer the OP's question, I don't think hedging your bet to convert the free play to cash is scamming. If the casinos see it that way, then they can change the rules like other casinos have and make it only playable on reel or video slots.
It's all moot to me as I haven't received a mailer or free play in at least 2 years, despite not really changing how much I gamble (which is not millions of dollars, but it used to be enough to get free dinners, hotel stays, show tickets and the occasional flight).
To answer the OP's question, I don't think hedging your bet to convert the free play to cash is scamming. If the casinos see it that way, then they can change the rules like other casinos have and make it only playable on reel or video slots.
It's all moot to me as I haven't received a mailer or free play in at least 2 years, despite not really changing how much I gamble (which is not millions of dollars, but it used to be enough to get free dinners, hotel stays, show tickets and the occasional flight).
October 14th, 2011 at 12:54:55 PM
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Quote: cardsharkA lot of casinos don't allow you to use free play on roulette machines.
On the virtual roulette machines, and Roulette Evolution,
it won't accept it. But the Bally roulette machines are
slots, even if they don't look like it. I wonder if its
possible to program them to not accept free play. The
casino isn't worried, most of the people who get the
cash blow it in the casino anyway.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
