Is Roulette a Dying Game?
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August 14th, 2011 at 6:12:04 PM
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The Wiz said in another thread that roulette is a dying game. But is it?
The tables are always busy in the casinos I go to, its standing room
only. In Europe its as popular as ever. The new sit down console games
that use a real wheel are extremely popular, you can't get a seat most
of the time. I don't see roulette as a dying game at all.
The tables are always busy in the casinos I go to, its standing room
only. In Europe its as popular as ever. The new sit down console games
that use a real wheel are extremely popular, you can't get a seat most
of the time. I don't see roulette as a dying game at all.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 14th, 2011 at 6:27:13 PM
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Slowing is perhaps a better word for it. Still busy, but most tables are non-Roulette. With one or two tables, they can fill up quickly, but in comparison to the arrays of Blackjack tables, it's not huge. One Roulette table is like two Blackjack tables, or 80% of one crap table. Looking at it that way, Roulette is present, but not at all dominant in the U.S.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 14th, 2011 at 6:46:57 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanRoulette is present, but not at all dominant in the U.S.
But its never ever been even close to being dominant. I've been going to
Vegas since 76 and the number of roulette tables has always been constant.
Its been dominant in Europe for 200 years and it still is.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 14th, 2011 at 6:52:46 PM
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You could argue that there are other roulette options... such as the VP type machines or the standalone machines where multiple people sit around a machine that spins a ball and electronically pays out. But as far as live roulette, yes it could be a dying game.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
August 14th, 2011 at 6:54:47 PM
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Interesting answers can be found in NJ Gaming's monthly report (July)
New Jersey Gaming Stats by table
New Jersey Gaming Stats by table
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 14th, 2011 at 7:03:51 PM
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It is not dying. It is the simplest table game to learn, and fun for the beginner. If it is slowing in popularity, casinos in this country have only themselves to blame. Any gambler worth his salt knows the game on the American table sports an unreasonable house advantage. I play it for fun, at times, with money I can ALWAYS afford to part with.
August 14th, 2011 at 7:49:42 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanInteresting answers can be found in NJ Gaming's monthly report (July)
New Jersey Gaming Stats by table
Here's the stats On Roulette from New Jersey - this July's figures drop ("action") figures, in comparison to total table action/drop:
ACH: $3.0M/$25.0M (12% of table action)
Bally's: $8.3M/$73M (11%)
Caesars: $9.1M/$100.3M (9%)
Harrah's: $5.7M/$65.5M (8.7%)
Resorts: $2.1M/$31.6M (6.6%)
Showboat $2.6M/$30.7M (8.5%)
Trop AC: $5.4M/$54.6M (10%)
Gold Ngt: $1.6M/$22.6M (7.1%)
Trump Pl: $2.2M/$28.0M (7.9%)
Trump Taj:$6.7M/$77.6M (8.6%)
We can deduce certain things from NJ's stats (including info from all tables here):
1. Roulette is about 9% of the casinos' action. Very Respectable, - not dominant.
2. Roulette is #3 at $47M in action a month: Also very resptecable (Blackjack is far and away Numbah One, - crap is #2, so to speak.
3. Three-card Poker has got about 90 tables in that town (Atlantic City) HUGE!
4. Pai Gow Poker has about 40 tables in that town, Asian tiles about 30 tables, for a combined $22M a month, less than half (but about half) of Roulette's action. Still big, but not as big as LV/West Coast.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 14th, 2011 at 7:56:17 PM
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Roulette is very popular Online and Live-Online Casino.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
August 14th, 2011 at 8:13:38 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
1. Roulette is about 9% of the casinos' action. Very Respectable, - not dominant.
But its never been dominant in any US casino. Its always been
a solid moneymaker and still is. You can see a table of BJ players
sit there for hours, slowly losing. People lose much faster at
roulette, it gobbles up the dollars. Players come and go from a
roulette table like its a fast food restaurant.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 14th, 2011 at 8:29:26 PM
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It won't ever be as popular as BJ or craps. Even with the lower house edge over roulette, those two games have the added element of "I'm smart enough to beat this game" and this is the appeal. Unless a gambler thinks he has located a biased wheel, there's no perceived advantage in roulette.
Joseph Kulas
August 14th, 2011 at 9:32:06 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanInteresting answers can be found in NJ Gaming's monthly report (July)
New Jersey Gaming Stats by table
Wow; looks like the big moneymaker was penny slots. On the first page alone, penny slots alone had almost twice the win (and drop) of all table games combined. I knew that slots were the major source of income on the floor at US casinos, but would never have guessed that the very highest profits come from the one and two cent machines.
August 14th, 2011 at 9:41:03 PM
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Quote: heather\ never have guessed that the very highest profits come from the one and two cent machines.
Nobody plays pennies on the penny machines. I would guess the average bet is 75 cents.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 14th, 2011 at 10:17:50 PM
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Quote: EvenBobNobody plays pennies on the penny machines. I would guess the average bet is 75 cents.
65% to 70% plus of casino action is slots.
Us table game guys are the dinosaurs.
Average bet on penny slots: 30c top $1.25 - not a penny.
Better off playing 25c video poker at Max Play.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 15th, 2011 at 3:26:46 AM
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I vote for those who say it is a steady but declining market. The table takes a lot of space but brings in a lot of edge. Like the Ford Panther Platform a dying product/market can still make a profit for a loooong time. Just don't expect to see much innovation.
Roulette is so easy to learn and play. The occasional big hit is big enough that some slots players easily graduate to and stay at roulette. IMHO.
Roulette is so easy to learn and play. The occasional big hit is big enough that some slots players easily graduate to and stay at roulette. IMHO.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
August 15th, 2011 at 4:43:21 AM
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Very interesting report.Quote: PaigowdanInteresting answers can be found in NJ Gaming's monthly report (July)
New Jersey Gaming Stats by table
What I take from it is, it shows that every casino in AC has more Roulette tables than Craps tables. That's fairly significant.
Of course, on a humorous side, it lists the Big Six on the first page rather than lumping it in with the other carnival games on page two. If ever there was a game that symbolized the very definition of "carnival", it's the Big Six.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 15th, 2011 at 7:31:41 AM
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Quote: EvenBobNobody plays pennies on the penny machines. I would guess the average bet is 75 cents.
Good guess. Last figure I saw was 73 cents.
August 15th, 2011 at 7:45:38 AM
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Quote: Paigowdan65% to 70% plus of casino action is slots.
Us table game guys are the dinosaurs.
And yet the game inventors who gather here mostly go after table games....
Sure, slots see a lot of action, including VP or not, but table games are alive and well. Dinasaurs, on the other hand, are extinct.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
August 15th, 2011 at 8:58:46 AM
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Perhaps because it's hard to come up with something unique as a slot machine.Quote: NareedAnd yet the game inventors who gather here mostly go after table games....
Oh, sure, there are different themes and gimicks, each of which must be approved by gaming, but are they really unique to the point of needing an independent inventor?
For the record, when I get to G2E, I plan on distributing my Poker For Roulette literature to anyone that has anythign remotely similar to Roulette - and that includes any slot manufacturer that has stand-alone, virtual Roulette.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 15th, 2011 at 9:11:14 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearPerhaps because it's hard to come up with something unique as a slot machine.
Juest theming them like WoF and such....
But I meant that table games are alive, as opposed to dinosaurs which are not.
Quote:For the record, when I get to G2E, I plan on distributing my Poker For Roulette literature to anyone that has anythign remotely similar to Roulette - and that includes any slot manufacturer that has stand-alone, virtual Roulette.
Naturally. a side bet is a side bet is a sucker bet for any flavor of roulette. A virtual roulette might even be more amennable to networked progressive jackpots, too.
In fact, it could serve as a bonus round in any slot, too. "you have three of a kind that pays x to 1; do you want to try for 4 of a kind or a full house?" It would ahve to have a theme distantly related to roulette, but as a side bet or bonus it works just as well.
You just push it anywhere you can think of and see what ahppens.
Good luck.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
August 15th, 2011 at 9:34:24 AM
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I'm guessing that the link between payment and installs is much firmer in the slot world, and so the reward for innovation is high enough for slot companies to produce and develop their own games in house without the need for external third parties.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
August 15th, 2011 at 9:35:17 AM
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What about the gamblers playing penny slots or keno? Should they be considered not worth their salt? Casinos want a mix of customers and provide a mix of games. No casino wants a "monoculture" even if they have a theme and a distinct marketing-attraction to some specific segment of the population.Quote: midwestgbIt is not dying. It is the simplest table game to learn, and fun for the beginner. If it is slowing in popularity, casinos in this country have only themselves to blame. Any gambler worth his salt knows the game on the American table sports an unreasonable house advantage.
Sharpies, who look at House Edge, know what 5.26 means, so do craps shooters who make Field bets. Lots of craps players make worse bets than Field bets. Yet no one claims Craps is dying because of the house edge.
If you think for a minute about that Refresh Rate error in electronic roulette you will realize that roulette can't be a dying game or no one would have discovered the bug, it takes "new blood" to do something like that.
On the Florida gambling boats, roulette is often crowded. Its a strange market, consisting mainly of slot machines and blackjack. LIR seems to be unpopular but roulette is often fully populated and has a few standees as well.
August 15th, 2011 at 10:00:01 AM
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I don't see any evidence the roulette or craps is dying in Vegas. The drop in revenue is much less than many other games (both dollars and percentage).
The big dollar change is twenty one and baccarat
For "downtown" the category "other games" includes Pai Gow tiles, bingo, and Caribbean stud. There is no full size baccarat played downtown.
The big dollar change is twenty one and baccarat
| Strip Vegas | 2007 | 2011 | Change | Change |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| TWENTY-ONE | $1,040,225 | $770,602 | -26% | -$269,623 |
| MINI-BACCARAT | $129,041 | $69,538 | -46% | -$59,503 |
| ROULETTE | $300,107 | $255,629 | -15% | -$44,478 |
| RACE BOOK | $47,706 | $26,249 | -45% | -$21,457 |
| PAI GOW | $33,584 | $13,829 | -59% | -$19,755 |
| 3-CARD POKER | $120,468 | $101,924 | -15% | -$18,544 |
| SPORTS POOL | $86,502 | $69,380 | -20% | -$17,122 |
| PAI GOW POKER | $75,158 | $59,526 | -21% | -$15,632 |
| CRAPS | $320,501 | $305,466 | -5% | -$15,035 |
| CARIBBEAN STUD | $15,495 | $4,607 | -70% | -$10,888 |
| LET IT RIDE | $38,420 | $29,673 | -23% | -$8,747 |
| KENO | $12,607 | $6,879 | -45% | -$5,728 |
| BINGO | $183 | $1,711 | 835% | $1,528 |
| BACCARAT | $895,121 | $1,269,724 | 42% | $374,603 |
| OTHER GAMES | $102,430 | $107,221 | 5% | $4,791 |
| TOTAL GAMES | $3,217,548 | $3,091,958 | -4% | -$125,590 |
| POKER | $99,145 | $80,932 | -18% | -$18,213 |
| Downtown Vegas | 2006 | 2011 | Change | Change |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| TWENTY-ONE | $57,819 | $41,739 | -28% | -$16,080 |
| CRAPS | $34,109 | $28,923 | -15% | -$5,186 |
| SPORTS POOL | $5,172 | $2,938 | -43% | -$2,234 |
| ROULETTE | $12,513 | $10,333 | -17% | -$2,180 |
| KENO | $6,245 | $4,256 | -32% | -$1,989 |
| RACE BOOK | $3,276 | $1,386 | -58% | -$1,890 |
| 3-CARD POKER | $10,447 | $8,930 | -15% | -$1,517 |
| MINI-BACCARAT | $1,972 | $507 | -74% | -$1,465 |
| PAI GOW POKER | $5,347 | $4,008 | -25% | -$1,339 |
| LET IT RIDE | $6,163 | $5,486 | -11% | -$677 |
| OTHER GAMES | $12,242 | $6,123 | -50% | -$6,119 |
| TOTAL GAMES | $155,305 | $114,629 | -26% | -$40,676 |
| POKER | $7,722 | $4,993 | -35% | -$2,729 |
For "downtown" the category "other games" includes Pai Gow tiles, bingo, and Caribbean stud. There is no full size baccarat played downtown.
