A tale of two casino's

I have gambled at mostly the same casino in LV for the last 9 years. I will call it casino A. There is another casino about a mile away I will call it casino B. For about the last two years I have enjoyed starting with caveman keno for anywhere from 20 to 100 bucks. From there I will play mostly VP but a variety, with a few slots sprinkled in hear and there. Very minimal on the slots.

I recently within the last 3 months started gambling much more regular at casino B. I would like to share some of what I would consider peculiar results.
Casino A actually has better payback for caveman keno than casino B. 5/5 with 4 coins pays 920 vs 860. In the few years that I have played this in casino A I have gotten 5/5 maybe 4 or 5 times with one time being 5/5 with 2 eggs for a nice 3680 coin pay off. In just a couple months in casino B I have hit 5/5 fifteen times with 2 times being with 2 eggs for the nice pay off. Keep in mind 5/5 is over 200 bucks on quarters and 4 times that with 2 eggs.

As far as VP is concerned I have had similar results in both casino's except I will say in casino A I have gotten probably close to 50 or 60 royals in 9 years. In casino B I have only gotten 1 ever, but that is with very sporadic play over nine years and steady play in the last 3 months.

I find it strange that casino B would be paying me so much better on caveman even though it is a lower paytable. I feel that sample size is large enough to compare these last 3 months with any 3 month period at casino A to draw a conclusion. I could be wrong though.

Any ideas?

Casino A h4xXx0rZ!

I was able to cobble together the down payment on my house 14 years ago because I hit two slot jackpots in one day. I haven't had one since.

Quote: thlf

I have gambled at mostly the same casino in LV for the last 9 years. I will call it casino A. There is another casino about a mile away I will call it casino B. For about the last two years I have enjoyed starting with caveman keno for anywhere from 20 to 100 bucks. From there I will play mostly VP but a variety, with a few slots sprinkled in hear and there. Very minimal on the slots.

I recently within the last 3 months started gambling much more regular at casino B. I would like to share some of what I would consider peculiar results.
Casino A actually has better payback for caveman keno than casino B. 5/5 with 4 coins pays 920 vs 860. In the few years that I have played this in casino A I have gotten 5/5 maybe 4 or 5 times with one time being 5/5 with 2 eggs for a nice 3680 coin pay off. In just a couple months in casino B I have hit 5/5 fifteen times with 2 times being with 2 eggs for the nice pay off. Keep in mind 5/5 is over 200 bucks on quarters and 4 times that with 2 eggs.

As far as VP is concerned I have had similar results in both casino's except I will say in casino A I have gotten probably close to 50 or 60 royals in 9 years. In casino B I have only gotten 1 ever, but that is with very sporadic play over nine years and steady play in the last 3 months.

I find it strange that casino B would be paying me so much better on caveman even though it is a lower paytable. I feel that sample size is large enough to compare these last 3 months with any 3 month period at casino A to draw a conclusion. I could be wrong though.

Any ideas?

Are the keno machines in both casinos the same age. The reason I ask is the newer keno machines for lack of a better way to put it have a more powerful computer which has a larger number pool or sequence of numbers to choose from. I play a lot of video keno and have noticed that the newer the machine the less the same old patterns repeat or show up or numbers clump however you want to put it. I would rather play an older machine with a slightly reduced paytable over a newer full pay. I know the mfg.'s will tell you that they play the same but they do not. The odds remain the same because the math does not change but the machines do play differently.

I understand that concept of getting lucky, hell it's happened to my quite a few times, but this seems to go beyond luck to me.

The machines appear to be of the same vintage. I have gone to both places all of the last 9 years, and the machines have all been at both places that same amount of time. None are newer than that. Older than that I couldn't say how much different they are from each other. Keep in mind I'm just talking about the multi play VP, Keno, slot machines at the bars. By slot I mean the typical black rhino, type.

According to one website are the 9 possible payback setting in Caveman Keno. The casino operator selects one of them
95.112 per cent.
94.008 per cent.
94.022 per cent.
92.070 per cent.
91.438 per cent
90.058 per cent.
89.885 per cent,
88.017 per cent,
88.004 per cent.

Also read the Wizard's analysis of Caveman Keno

Quote: thlf

I have gambled at mostly the same casino in LV for the last 9 years. I will call it casino A. There is another casino about a mile away I will call it casino B. For about the last two years I have enjoyed starting with caveman keno for anywhere from 20 to 100 bucks. From there I will play mostly VP but a variety, with a few slots sprinkled in hear and there. Very minimal on the slots.

I recently within the last 3 months started gambling much more regular at casino B. I would like to share some of what I would consider peculiar results.
Casino A actually has better payback for caveman keno than casino B. 5/5 with 4 coins pays 920 vs 860. In the few years that I have played this in casino A I have gotten 5/5 maybe 4 or 5 times with one time being 5/5 with 2 eggs for a nice 3680 coin pay off. In just a couple months in casino B I have hit 5/5 fifteen times with 2 times being with 2 eggs for the nice pay off. Keep in mind 5/5 is over 200 bucks on quarters and 4 times that with 2 eggs.

As far as VP is concerned I have had similar results in both casino's except I will say in casino A I have gotten probably close to 50 or 60 royals in 9 years. In casino B I have only gotten 1 ever, but that is with very sporadic play over nine years and steady play in the last 3 months.

I find it strange that casino B would be paying me so much better on caveman even though it is a lower paytable. I feel that sample size is large enough to compare these last 3 months with any 3 month period at casino A to draw a conclusion. I could be wrong though.

Any ideas?

50 or 60 royals???? You must be playing 24/7/365 in Casino A.

I play a respectable amount of VP at a high level and have done so for 8 years with 21 royals, so Casino B with "very sporadic play" seems to be normal.

That is only an average of 6 per year. I have friends who average 20 per year. I actually had 20 in one year at casino A. 3 times that year I got 2 in one day, twice I got 2 in 1 day on the same machine. It was a crazy year, and it hasn't happened since.

Quote: VegasVic14

50 or 60 royals???? You must be playing 24/7/365 in Casino A.

I play a respectable amount of VP at a high level and have done so for 8 years with 21 royals,...

50 royals is no biggie. I once got 50 royals in a single hand lol

Quote: zippyboy

50 royals is no biggie. I once got 50 royals in a single hand lol

Technically that's a royal.

What was the payoff? I make it out to be $30.

Yep! Thirty dollars!!! woohoo!

The probability of getting a 5/5 without a multiplier is 1 in 1723.
The probability of getting a 5/5 with a 2x multiplier is 1 in 16619.
The probability of getting a 5/5 with a 10x (or 8x depending on the paytable) is 1 in 230115.

Out of all 5/5 wins, you will get a 2x multiplier about once per 10.7 wins. So, I don't think it's abnormal for you to have 2 out of 15 wins. Also, based on your win record, I expect that you have played about 23,000 games of Caveman Keno at casino B. If that sounds accurate, then casino B is fair. If you have played significantly fewer games, then you are probably very lucky in the short term. For instance, if you have played 10,000 games, then you have a 1 in 364 chance of getting 15 or more 5/5 wins.

Quote: zippyboy

Yep! Thirty dollars!!! woohoo!

If this were an episode of the Bing Bang Theory, Sheldon would be asking now "Sarcasm?"

Anyway, it's easy to dismiss it, but when I play single hand or even ten hand, I will get excited if I win $30 in the session, never mind in the hand. But think about it, for a negative expectation game like NSUD, which is about the best common DW around, a win of 30% (assuming my usual $100 buy-in) is pretty good.

Quote: CrystalMath

The probability of getting a 5/5 without a multiplier is 1 in 1723.
The probability of getting a 5/5 with a 2x multiplier is 1 in 16619.
The probability of getting a 5/5 with a 10x (or 8x depending on the paytable) is 1 in 230115.

Out of all 5/5 wins, you will get a 2x multiplier about once per 10.7 wins. So, I don't think it's abnormal for you to have 2 out of 15 wins. Also, based on your win record, I expect that you have played about 23,000 games of Caveman Keno at casino B. If that sounds accurate, then casino B is fair. If you have played significantly fewer games, then you are probably very lucky in the short term. For instance, if you have played 10,000 games, then you have a 1 in 364 chance of getting 15 or more 5/5 wins.

Thanks Crystal that answers a lot for me. I really don't want to beat this to death but I will anyway. I don't think I have come close to 23,000 games at casino B. As I said I normally only play 20 to 100 dollars 4 quarters at a time and I have only been doing this maybe once a week for the last 3 months. I have hit a lot of 5/5's on my first twenty in the machine at casino B. I think I have had a very lucky streak there. The thing I still can't comprehend is why I have had quite the opposite luck at casino A when they have an even higher paytable.

At any rate thanks a lot for the math on this.