Changing The Table Minimum

I've been curious regarding what procedure is involved in changing the minimum bet at the tables. Who decides when (and how much) to change the minimum? Does a pit boss just tell the dealer to swap the "table info card" from $5 to $10 and that's it? Or is there some kind of official paperwork/approval involved?

I ask because I wonder what would happen if a decent-sized group of friends walked up to a totally empty $10 craps table and expressed a desire to play IF the table limit were lowered to $5.

Assuming the table was empty, would the casino even consider dropping the minimum in order to get the play from four or five people at a lower betting level? Or can the casino not change a table minimum on a moment's notice?

Quote: blount2000

I've been curious regarding what procedure is involved in changing the minimum bet at the tables. Who decides when (and how much) to change the minimum? Does a pit boss just tell the dealer to swap the "table info card" from $5 to $10 and that's it? Or is there some kind of official paperwork/approval involved?

I ask because I wonder what would happen if a decent-sized group of friends walked up to a totally empty $10 craps table and expressed a desire to play IF the table limit were lowered to $5.

Assuming the table was empty, would the casino even consider dropping the minimum in order to get the play from four or five people at a lower betting level? Or can the casino not change a table minimum on a moment's notice?

The Pit Bass makes the call. No paperwork is required. If business is slow, they may consider lowering the minimum. Just ask. All they can do is say no. Consideration should be given to the crew, who would probably rather continue to shoot the breeze, than work a table of no tip "fleas". I think requests to open with a lower minimum are often turned down for this very reason.

Just ask. The worst case, the boss will say 'no'.

I did that once at Mohegan Sun. He lowered it without a problem.

About 15 minutes later, he sees my bet is at the higher level, and asks why he had to lower it. I told him that my bet is higher because I was winning and have pressed it that high. Additionally, I didn't want to play alone. Three other people that sat down to the lower limit.

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As far as raising it goes, I don't know if there's any paperwork. However, there will always be notification. Sometimes it's a simple Post-It note stuck on the limit sign, stating the new limit and the time it kicks in. Usually it's about 15 minutes warning. More often than not, it will be more like 30 minutes before they actually bump it. Some casinos will also "grandfather" players in at the lower limit.

Do odds bets count toward the minimum? Like if it is a $10 table and you know you're going to play $5 on the pass line and put down an additional $10 in odds for a total of $15, can you tell the dealers that you will be doing that and they will allow it?

Or is the minimum bet calculated "pre-odds"?

The dealers can't change anything. The box probably can but would rarely do so since it would annoy the Floor. The Floor/Pit can always change limits simply because crowd behavior of gamblers is so unpredictable. In the suggested situation of a whole group of players and a presently empty table... yeah they would probably go for it even though it means fleas will wander by and want that table to stay at 5.00 all night long.
Casinos vary and it also depends on how late in someone's shift you ask. Usually floorpersons arrive earlier than the dealers and get a sense of how things have been going.
Best advice: if its a big deal to you, let them know. If they say "tough"... then you can decide what to do.

I once had the electronic sign go down during a roll and a few moments later the dealer made an announcement about the lowered table minimum. Frankly, I found the interruption annoying and wish they had just left it alone but they do weird things at weird times.

Quote: blount2000

Do odds bets count toward the minimum?

No.

Quote: blount2000

I ask because I wonder what would happen if a decent-sized group of friends walked up to a totally empty $10 craps table and expressed a desire to play IF the table limit were lowered to $5.

Assuming the table was empty, would the casino even consider dropping the minimum in order to get the play from four or five people at a lower betting level? Or can the casino not change a table minimum on a moment's notice?

I'd say it would depend on time of day and how many people. I think the big deal would be having to raise it back. As others here mentioned, 15-30 mins is pretty standard warning for upping the limit. I've been raised several times over two different countries and never allowed to GF. So say they lower it and you all leave 15 minutes later. They need 15-30 minutes to re-raise it back. So a quick-dead table during busy time I would say odds are it will not happen. Off-hours maybe.

My advice would be get there before noon and assure the pit boss of 30+ minutes play or/and a $150+ buyin each.

I have successfully done this on blackjack tables at MGM. We talked up with a group of 4 to an empty $25 table and asked the pit boss if he would lower it to $15. I didn't mind the $25, but some of my buddies only wanted to play $200-300 that night. In fact, it has worked there 3 out of the 4 times I have tried it. I think the one time we were denied, it was "earlier" in the night (before 2AM) or maybe late on a Saturday night. He later changed the limits of the table to $25 but instructed the dealers that we grandfathered in at $15. I thought that was a nice move.

As far as craps tables, I think casinos are more stingy with these. I can't tell you how many times I've walked by [multiple] empty $15 or $25 tables when they had $10 tables that were overrun with people. It seems to make business sense that if you just lowered it by $5, you have a chance at thousands more dollars, rather than leaving your dealers with their thumbs up their asses.

Speaking of craps tables, I have been at various casinos in Vegas during off-peak hours (early morning, early afternoon, whenever) that the limit changed from $5 to $10, and I was also allowed to grandfather in at the $5 amount there. I think it's kind of rude of them to kick you off the table if you're patronizing their joint. I'm just petty enough that I might consider permanently taking my business elsewhere. The only time I could see a justification is if they thought you were a dice setter and/or you were just killing them at the table.