Vegas thoughts
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May 27th, 2011 at 8:57:06 AM
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I just returned from Vegas after watching my son participate in the Wizard's challenge. I discussed that on the other thread. I am just going to give some random thoughts.
1. I played I would guess 30 hours at $25 a hand at tiles, Paigow, and Asia poker at the Rio, and accumulated $25 total in comps. My offer did include a free room all 3 nights so I consider the overall comp value fair for my level of play.
2. Business seemed way down from previous trips, although of course time of year may have been a factor. Likely 1/2 the time I played I was the only person at the table and thus banked every other hand, which I like. The pit bosses and dealers were almost all very friendly. One in particular, after we were chatting for a while, came over and gave me a free set of Pai Gow Tiles. They just put a thin scratch mark on the back.
3. Had I played for 29 hours I would have eneded up ahead, as I entered the last hour up $20. I was down $80 when i sensed it was time to leave for the airport, and I did something generally out of character for me-- I bet $50 on 2 hands of tiles- push both. Then I banked for $100, figuring if i won I would leave vegas up, and if I lost it would just be a sligfhtly bigger loss. The anticlimax is that, other than two one win one loss when I was playing the $50, I never was able to win or lose the $100 and ended up down less than $100 for the trip. I do not count the Wizards challenge as a 'gambling loss', to me that was an entertainment expense. I am sure that if you add up my dealer's tips, waitress tips, and 2 table massages that my actual pure gambling result was slightly positive, but I define the trip as down $85, which is of course a success.
4. I was lucky enough to have dinner with the Wiz at the Mexican restaurant. The conversation was great even if the food was average.
5. I played pai gow cards at the Aria with David. It was interesting that we had a dealer, a cute young woman from Mississippi, who freely admitted she did not know how to set the cards. There was a little computer screen on the table which, before the dealer would turn over her cards, would tell her what 2 cards to put in the low hand. I am guessing that the cards are RFID'd or something like that. I didnt like the 'feel' of knowing the dealer's low hand before seeing the entire hand revealed.
6. My favorite gambling part of the trip- David and I both cashed in for $100 each at the Aria as it had $10 pai gow cards. The cards were running dismally for us, and we were both down to around $50. I moved over to the next table with my 2 green chips to play tiles and leave David alone to play. I am now down to my last green chip and David is down to $20. He has aces with kq and the dealer has 2 low pair with an ace. She does not take his money and signals push. David loses the next hand and is down to his last $10. I go and bet my last green chip (with 3 reds left over from commissions) and tell David to keep doubling up if he wins. I have 8 pushes in a row before winning, then win the next hand at $25 so am now up $3 or so. David is now up to $85 ish, and I tell him to just bet enough to get over $100. He eventually wins, and we both leave up a couple of bucks. He mentions had the dealer not erred we would have left with him at 0 and me at $40.
7. We signed up for ID cards at cosmopolitan, and basically got the equivalent of $25 each that took just a few minutes. You had to just put $1 in a VP machine, and play $25 then you could cash out. I got a few hands and my free $25 turned into $40, David didn't do as well and his turned into $10. But that was all profit, as we only had to put in $1 each.
8. 2nd favorite gambling part of the trip- when playing tiles at the Rio I had a stretch of perhaps 1/2 hour where I had 3 copy hands when I was banking and thus beat the house. For those who play tiles, 2 of them were when we both had 0 in the low hand, and I had stronger high hands so won them both.
1. I played I would guess 30 hours at $25 a hand at tiles, Paigow, and Asia poker at the Rio, and accumulated $25 total in comps. My offer did include a free room all 3 nights so I consider the overall comp value fair for my level of play.
2. Business seemed way down from previous trips, although of course time of year may have been a factor. Likely 1/2 the time I played I was the only person at the table and thus banked every other hand, which I like. The pit bosses and dealers were almost all very friendly. One in particular, after we were chatting for a while, came over and gave me a free set of Pai Gow Tiles. They just put a thin scratch mark on the back.
3. Had I played for 29 hours I would have eneded up ahead, as I entered the last hour up $20. I was down $80 when i sensed it was time to leave for the airport, and I did something generally out of character for me-- I bet $50 on 2 hands of tiles- push both. Then I banked for $100, figuring if i won I would leave vegas up, and if I lost it would just be a sligfhtly bigger loss. The anticlimax is that, other than two one win one loss when I was playing the $50, I never was able to win or lose the $100 and ended up down less than $100 for the trip. I do not count the Wizards challenge as a 'gambling loss', to me that was an entertainment expense. I am sure that if you add up my dealer's tips, waitress tips, and 2 table massages that my actual pure gambling result was slightly positive, but I define the trip as down $85, which is of course a success.
4. I was lucky enough to have dinner with the Wiz at the Mexican restaurant. The conversation was great even if the food was average.
5. I played pai gow cards at the Aria with David. It was interesting that we had a dealer, a cute young woman from Mississippi, who freely admitted she did not know how to set the cards. There was a little computer screen on the table which, before the dealer would turn over her cards, would tell her what 2 cards to put in the low hand. I am guessing that the cards are RFID'd or something like that. I didnt like the 'feel' of knowing the dealer's low hand before seeing the entire hand revealed.
6. My favorite gambling part of the trip- David and I both cashed in for $100 each at the Aria as it had $10 pai gow cards. The cards were running dismally for us, and we were both down to around $50. I moved over to the next table with my 2 green chips to play tiles and leave David alone to play. I am now down to my last green chip and David is down to $20. He has aces with kq and the dealer has 2 low pair with an ace. She does not take his money and signals push. David loses the next hand and is down to his last $10. I go and bet my last green chip (with 3 reds left over from commissions) and tell David to keep doubling up if he wins. I have 8 pushes in a row before winning, then win the next hand at $25 so am now up $3 or so. David is now up to $85 ish, and I tell him to just bet enough to get over $100. He eventually wins, and we both leave up a couple of bucks. He mentions had the dealer not erred we would have left with him at 0 and me at $40.
7. We signed up for ID cards at cosmopolitan, and basically got the equivalent of $25 each that took just a few minutes. You had to just put $1 in a VP machine, and play $25 then you could cash out. I got a few hands and my free $25 turned into $40, David didn't do as well and his turned into $10. But that was all profit, as we only had to put in $1 each.
8. 2nd favorite gambling part of the trip- when playing tiles at the Rio I had a stretch of perhaps 1/2 hour where I had 3 copy hands when I was banking and thus beat the house. For those who play tiles, 2 of them were when we both had 0 in the low hand, and I had stronger high hands so won them both.
May 27th, 2011 at 10:54:53 AM
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Sounds like a great trip!
But by letting the computer set the cards, "House way" can be tweaked to gain a little more edge, to the point where no dealer could remember all the little rules and exceptions.
Wow. I'm quite sruprised that they'd do that. You'd think that, unlike cards, tiles have a long useable life, and when they are finally past their prime, put them in the gift shop, or give them to high rollers. Did the pit boss think you are a high roller?Quote: SOOPOO. . . after we were chatting for a while, came over and gave me a free set of Pai Gow Tiles. They just put a thin scratch mark on the back.
Typical gambler. Small loss equals win. :)Quote: SOOPOO. . . down $85, which is of course a success.
That's been discussed here. Not RFID, but within the shuffler, it can visually read the cards, and knows not only the dealer's hands, but all the players.Quote: SOOPOOIt was interesting that we had a dealer, a cute young woman from Mississippi, who freely admitted she did not know how to set the cards. There was a little computer screen on the table which, before the dealer would turn over her cards, would tell her what 2 cards to put in the low hand. I am guessing that the cards are RFID'd or something like that. I didnt like the 'feel' of knowing the dealer's low hand before seeing the entire hand revealed.
But by letting the computer set the cards, "House way" can be tweaked to gain a little more edge, to the point where no dealer could remember all the little rules and exceptions.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 27th, 2011 at 11:27:14 AM
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I can assure you he knew I was not a high roller. Often times once the pit crew finds out I'm an anesthesiologist they always have some story or question to relate to me. I had some long discussions with the guy and I think he just liked me. I think also having my son just learning the game played a factor in him offerring up the tiles. I can tell you it is almost assuredly a +EV move by the casino because I will remember it and give them as much of my play as possible, as might my son if he ever decides he likes the gambling experience.
I cannot express it exactly, but now I REALLY dont like the pre read cards. It seems in theory the computer will know immediately (if the player plays house ways) if the player won or lost as the cards are dealt out. One can imagine that if the house is dealt a really poor hand that the computer can be programmed to 'misdeal' if the house is dealt j high pai gow or less, say. Or maybe let it keep shuffling until the house would get a pair at least. Of course I don't actually think this is being done but it seems like it COULD be. I am also now wondering if someone could hack into the system and know the 2 dealer low cards before setting the player hand. This would be a HUGE player advantage and a possible defraud the Casino scheme.
I cannot express it exactly, but now I REALLY dont like the pre read cards. It seems in theory the computer will know immediately (if the player plays house ways) if the player won or lost as the cards are dealt out. One can imagine that if the house is dealt a really poor hand that the computer can be programmed to 'misdeal' if the house is dealt j high pai gow or less, say. Or maybe let it keep shuffling until the house would get a pair at least. Of course I don't actually think this is being done but it seems like it COULD be. I am also now wondering if someone could hack into the system and know the 2 dealer low cards before setting the player hand. This would be a HUGE player advantage and a possible defraud the Casino scheme.
May 27th, 2011 at 11:40:06 AM
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Quote: SOOPOO
I cannot express it exactly, but now I REALLY dont like the pre read cards. It seems in theory the computer will know immediately (if the player plays house ways) if the player won or lost as the cards are dealt out. One can imagine that if the house is dealt a really poor hand that the computer can be programmed to 'misdeal' if the house is dealt j high pai gow or less, say. Or maybe let it keep shuffling until the house would get a pair at least. Of course I don't actually think this is being done but it seems like it COULD be. I am also now wondering if someone could hack into the system and know the 2 dealer low cards before setting the player hand. This would be a HUGE player advantage and a possible defraud the Casino scheme.
I dont think the machines preread the cards, but read them as they are dealt. (ie scanned as they leave the machine) so the possibility for the progammed misdeals is so small as to be negligible, never mind the penalties if found out. I also doubt very much that the sytem could be havked wothout extended access to the system, or someone on the inside at both the casino and the suppliers. For me it would be too much hassle for too small a reward.
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May 27th, 2011 at 12:52:02 PM
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There are card readers on BJ tables that read and count the cards and can alert the casino when a shoe favors the player. As has been discussed in other threads, this is not to signal a shuffle, but more to be alert to see if a player is also counting.
In Pai Gow Poker, the cards are dealt out of the machine in 7 card groups. Therefore, the card scanner must be completely internal. That means it's conceivable that the cards are read as the groups are being formed, and the shuffler can select a specific group to give to the dealer....
In Pai Gow Poker, the cards are dealt out of the machine in 7 card groups. Therefore, the card scanner must be completely internal. That means it's conceivable that the cards are read as the groups are being formed, and the shuffler can select a specific group to give to the dealer....
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 27th, 2011 at 1:35:00 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBear...this is not to signal a shuffle, but more to be alert to see if a player is also counting.
What is the factual basis for this statement? A promise by the casino that they will not use the information for evil? If the casino's goal is to separate the player from their money, why would they not use this information to reduce the player edge and call downstairs to instruct the dealer to shuffle early?
I would not have a problem with this if the playing field were level, but the casino knows the contents of all the player hands as well as the burned cards making their "count" complete. An individual player, who is working a slim edge, or none at all, cannot compete in this environment.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
May 27th, 2011 at 3:15:07 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThere are card readers on BJ tables that read and count the cards and can alert the casino when a shoe favors the player. As has been discussed in other threads, this is not to signal a shuffle, but more to be alert to see if a player is also counting.
Ok casino law experts out there. Would it be legal in Nevada for the casino to use the information to instruct a dealer to shuffle early? Since a casino pit boss may ask a dealer to shuffle at any time (this is true, isn't it?) , is he allowed to use any and all information at his disposal? Can the casino legally hire a card counter to stand near the table and signal a pit boss that they should shuffle?
