Do casinos check bills for counterfeits?

I assume the answer is at least partially "yes", but how thoroughly? All bills or just $100s? And how does the practice vary from casino to casino or state to state?

I have always presumed any bills I get from a cashier's cage are legit, and I've never had a problem yet, but I'm curious.

They usually don't check too thoroughly on buy-ins, although I wouldn't try swindling any given casino with fakes more than once.

I've never seen a casino use that counterfeit detection marker that you see used in stores. Heck, I've never even seen them hold up the bills to check for the security thread.

All they ever do is to place them face down for the count.

I'm convinced that the face-down procedure is NOT because of the oversized number in one corner, but, somehow, looking at the backs makes it somewhat easier to spot a fake.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I've never seen a casino use that counterfeit detection marker that you see used in stores. Heck, I've never even seen them hold up the bills to check for the security thread.

All they ever do is to place them face down for the count.

I'm convinced that the face-down procedure is NOT because of the oversized number in one corner, but, somehow, looking at the backs makes it somewhat easier to spot a fake.

At the hard rock in florida they used the pen on EVERY note at EVERY table.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I've never seen a casino use that counterfeit detection marker that you see used in stores. Heck, I've never even seen them hold up the bills to check for the security thread.

Neither have I. Would really hold the game up on a $2000 buy-in. This is why I'm asking, as I've never seen any verification in front of me.

I have this perception that after collecting the cash boxes, whatever machines they count the bills with can also check for fakes. I understand the current, large-portrait bills (ie the $100s made after 1996 or so) also have UV watermarks that can be easily checked with some simple equipment.

I do occasionally still get the older $100s from cages.

My question is more, can I be reasonably sure the bills *I* get from *them* are legit?

At my local Native American casino the Gold pen is everywhere!

Every cage cashier(cash-in/cash-out), boxman, pit boss has one to check EVERY bill coming onto a table.

Maybe the Injuns would prefer to use Wampum. Maybe they don't trust that funny money the palefaces keep giving them....



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Ten2win: LOVE that signature line! I hadn't noticed you using that before now...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I'm convinced that the face-down procedure is NOT because of the oversized number in one corner, but, somehow, looking at the backs makes it somewhat easier to spot a fake.

Maybe surveillance can distinguish denominations more easily from the backs than from the fronts. Especially in the past when considering the camera technology and bill designs of 20+ years ago.

Counterfeiting is not the huge problem most people think it is. Next time you see the pen, ask the person how many fake bills they've found. I have done this for years and have yet to find anybody who will admit to finding just one. Its a far bigger problem overseas than it is here.

.....

Quote: ten2win

At my local Native American casino the Gold pen is everywhere!

Same here, at all of the tribal casinos around Minneapolis. Strangely, this is not the case at the two racing commission regulated card clubs.

.....

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I'm convinced that the face-down procedure is NOT because of the oversized number in one corner, but, somehow, looking at the backs makes it somewhat easier to spot a fake.

I have some experience detecting fake bills, and i can't think of any method that approaches looking at the back under normal light. Under UV light, you'll see either a fluorescent safety strip or fluorescent ink. The latter is used only on the back, but it's not visible under normal conditions. Against a backlight you can check for water marks, but 1) that works as well in the front and 2) there's no backlight at the casino table.

As someone else suggested, though, counterfeiting isn't that big a problem. I know people who handle large amoutns of cash, both pesos and dolalrs, and they detect only a handful of fake bills per year.

I got a counterfeit $100 at work once, no one caught it (at work cash passes through 2 others after me) until the next day doing deposits at PNC Bank. It was a big PITA, the Secret Service came in and everyone had to attend a seminar on detecting counterfeits. That was about 15 years ago, since then I check every $50 and $100 and haven't found another. That makes ONE counterfeit bill in 25 years (the length of time I've been required to count large sums of money occasionally). Interestingly, I called the person who passed it to me and she said she got it from... PNC Bank.

delete.

While at the Golden Nugget last week, the boxmen held all the $100 bills up to the ceiling lights, I assume looking for water marks. No gold pens to be seen, also I didn't notice any gold pens anywhere Downtown for that matter.

DJTeddyBear...That sentence in one of your posts should be a quote!

Quote: ten2win

While at the Golden Nugget last week, the boxmen held all the $100 bills up to the ceiling lights, I assume looking for water marks.

The new 100 has a watermark of Ben Franklin, and color-shifting ink in one or two fo the corner numbers. Older bills lack these features, but may have a security strip, which can also be seen better in backlight. To appreciate the color-shifts of the ink you need to tilt the bill back and forth. If you ahve good eyesight, you can check for legible micro-prinitng, too.

Stroking with the pen detects acid in the paper. I saw a program on a Canadian counterfeiter who beat this by buying quality paper ... not identical to what the mint was using, but no acid in it anyway. He was quite good at other tricks too.

So the pen actually can be beat pretty easy I think.

Quote: gofaster87

The problem with the gold pen method it only checks for authenticity of the paper. Another friend of mine that owned a franchise of B&Rs received a $100 bill that was really a $5 bill that was washed and reprinted. He has it still to this day.

That reminds me...

I recently saw some cop show (Vegas Undercover?) where the cops set up a fencing operation. Eventually, a guy brought in counterfeiting equipment, and showed the cops how to use it.

Yeah, the first step is washing a $5 bill.

The guy also told the cops how to launder it. One method was casino table games. Another is convenience store slots. He puts real money in the slots, say around $220, and plays it down to about $205. He then gets paid, puts the money in his pocket, then "remembers" that he needs cigarettes, and uses a counterfeit $100 to pay. The clerks always assume he's giving them back one of the hundreds they just gave him, and never check it.

I remember the first fake bill I got while working the drivethru at McD's. It was around 10pm and this guy orders a cheeseburger. He gave me this $10 that looked like someone left it in their pants in the washer. As soon as I held it up to the light to look for the strip he takes off. I gave it to my manager. I've had a teenager try paying with 2 fake $5's.
My favorite one was some guy on the front counter paying with a $50. It was one of those white washed fives. He insisted that it was real and that I should use the pen. I hold it up to look for Mr Grant but Lincoln showed. Not to mention FIVE spelled out on the strip instead of 50. As soon as he realized I knew it was fake he reached over the counter and grabbed it an ran out the door.

Quote: gofaster87

A friend of mine received a fake hundred from the redemption machine at GVR. She was shit out of luck when she tried to deposit it at the bank. She went back to GVR but they didn't give her the time of day. She should have had them check the tapes and witness the redemption. Ive had to do this when shorted money out of the machine and I did get it back. From what I understand the new modern cameras could of zoomed in and read the serial on the bill she got from the machine. The smaller local casinos do check bills.

Pretty good casino advantage play. They buy the fakes for $1 each.

As someone with his own business, I have had many experiences with fake bills.

As other people have stated, the pen is no longer an adequate method of determining a fake bill. It became very common for people to wash smaller denomination bills and reprint higher denominations on them. The pen would then still show that the paper is legitimate, which proves nothing. Thus, it has become very uncommon for people to use the pen for determining the validity of a bill. I have still seen some Indian casinos do this, and I can only assume it's to catch those rather obvious situations of someone photocopying a bill onto regular paper. It's probably easier to train people to do this, than it is to train people to look for other kinds of fakes.

At my store, I train my cashiers to hold the bills up to the light. Look for the watermark portrait, which should match the central portrait, as well as the security strip, which is located in a different spot on different denominations, and is imprinted with the value of the denomination. I only have them check 50s and 100s, though, to speed things up. I've always joked that if I were to counterfeit money, I would counterfeit $5. Nobody ever seems to check those, so you could probably get away with a lot.

I have seen dealers at table games in casinos in Las Vegas hold up bills to the light for a quick check. I have not seen anybody do this with regularity. In the downtown casinos, I've noticed that if a, let us say, less well-to-do, person appears to come in, they will check every single bill that person presents, even $5s and $1s.

I have checked bills that I have received at various places, including casinos, wal-mart, banks, and circle k. When I pay someone cash money, I always check the bills, in front of the person, before handing the bills to the person. While I already know that the bills I have are legitimate, I want the person I'm paying to know that I know they are legitimate, and that I am handing them legitimate bills. That way, if they do end up with something fake in their wallet, we both know it didn't come from me. I've felt that this might be a good way for people to handle cash transactions. However, I know that people don't care for the most part when they give away a bill whether or not it's legitimate. After all, the person who receives it can't really prove that they received that particular bill from you.

In my area of town, if one of the business owners ends up with a fake bill, or has a person present a fake bill, he'll let the rest of us know. We then let others know, and the word spreads like wild fire. We then all become fairly vigilant about checking everything for a few months, until the furor dies down. I don't know if casinos do the same thing, but it would make sense. Should a fake present itself, let every other casino know, and then it will become almost impossible for more fakes to be passed.

I also think that if someone could invent a lens for a security camera that could check the bills from a distance, it might be a money maker.

The washing concept would not work here.

We have £5, £10, £20 and £50 notes. The £50 are somewhat rare and mostly seen at the casinos, the average person does not carry them. I would say £20's are the most common and the most forged note we have.

However the £20 is smaller than the £50 (to the point where a £50 does not fit in a normal wallet), the £10 is smaller than the £20, and you guessed it, the £5 is smaller than the £10. So you could only ever wash a note and cut it to a smaller value.

The paper here is almost impossible to replicate. The printing can be very good, even with a silver strip and decent fake watermark, but the feel is usually all you need. I know some bank cashiers that can spot a fake note blindfolded.

Yup, the pens are garbage.

Some fakes are caught by an attentive dealer/slot attendant/cashier, who just notices that they're off and checks the number of safety measures on the bill. But assuming a bill makes it past them and into the cage, all bills are ran through a processing machine. It's about the size of 3 washing machines with a great number of scanners and cameras. It's sort of like the scanner in a vending machine, only more redundant and sophisticated. Any suspect bill (genuine fake or damaged and unreadable) is spit out, and a cage personnel must hand inspect it.

When it comes to man and machine, there are of course mistakes and breakdowns in the system. But I'd say casino funds are at least equal in security to a bank, and you're much more likely to receive a passed over fake from any store or business.

It never really occurred to me just how worthless those counterfeit detection markers are.

I did a hit & run last night at Showboat. (OK, it was more like: Got the shit beat out of me and crawled away still alive, but that's another story...)

I hadn't been there in over a year. I.E. Since tables and poker opened in PA.


The FIRST thing I noticed was that they had those markers on every table.

So I asked how long that's been going on. A little less than a year.

I wanted to ask if they saw any bad bills, or what they do about it, but didn't ask.

Why do you want to know this information?

Many rings still "shove the queer" by getting some sucker who was playing in a casino and giving him a hardluck story about winnings and immigration status and their roulette system or some such nonsense, and they have him buy in with a whole wad of counterfeit money or counterfeit chips while they loiter well out of camera range.

The vast majority of it that goes on in this country is by college students using copying machines in their dorm rooms to make 5's and 10's to pass at the pizza joint and in the college book store.. The big stuff goes on in places like N Korea, where they print millions in 100's and pass them off in foreign countries. The majority of that gets caught somewhere in the process, before we ever have to make good on it.

The best was Mr. 880 in NYC who counterfeited ONE dollar bills.

Quote: EvenBob

The vast majority of it that goes on in this country is by college students using copying machines in their dorm rooms

The marking pens will nail those every time.

Quote: FleaStiff

The best was Mr. 880 in NYC who counterfeited ONE dollar bills.

The best was the guy who had one of those propaganda bills, the ones with like GWB on the face in a $10,000 denom, passed it off at the local Dairy Queen, and waited a half hour for the cashier to russle up $9,995 in change for him. He ended up being charged with federal offenses. I think the cashier shouldv'e been charged with criminal stupidity.

The pens are pretty much useless. All they detect is starch. I've seen many real bills get flagged as counterfeit by the pens. I think the easiest way is to use an ultraviolet light. The strip on a real bill will fluoresce and different bills emit different colors. Ultraviolet checkers are cheap and easy.

Mark

Quote: marksolberg

Ultraviolet checkers are cheap and easy.

While UV may be more accurate and effective, they certainly are not as simple, and cheap, as those markers.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

While UV may be more accurate and effective, they certainly are not as simple, and cheap, as those markers.

They're very simple. Hold the bills under the hood and watch for the fluorescent strip or ink. No fluorescence=fake bill. You can check any number of bills at the same time. Some banks use them with a minimal delay.

Quote: Face

I think the cashier shouldv'e been charged with criminal stupidity.

How about the cashier who cashed a newspaper copy of a fake check that had been printed in an article warning merchants of a scam?
Or the bank teller who processed a OLD German Mark from the days of hyper-inflation during the Weimar Republic when a postage stamp cost 10,000 marks or something.

Quote: FleaStiff

Or the bank teller who processed a OLD German Mark from the days of hyper-inflation during the Weimar Republic when a postage stamp cost 10,000 marks or something.

I have a couple million mark bills from 1922, they're pretty cool. I used to collect paper currency, I wish I had hung onto the $1000 bills I had, they're worth a lot now that you can't get them anymore. $500's are cool, they have a big old fashioned steam locomotive on the back.

Quote: EvenBob

I have a couple million mark bills from 1922, they're pretty cool. I used to collect paper currency, I wish I had hung onto the $1000 bills I had, they're worth a lot now that you can't get them anymore. $500's are cool, they have a big old fashioned steam locomotive on the back.

Yah, US should bring back the 5C note, Theodore Roosevelt on Front... Bully for You!

Quote: marksolberg

The pens are pretty much useless. All they detect is starch.

I'm pretty sure it is acid in the paper that gets detected, not starch

Here's what I found online as far the extent:

Quote:

In 2005, the United States Secret Service made 3,717 arrests and seized $61 million in counterfeit currency that was already in circulation. The FBI estimates businesses lose approximately $200 billion per year to counterfeiting. Businesses are not reimbursed for counterfeit bills they accept, and federal law prohibits knowingly passing counterfeit money.

http://www.business.com/guides/counterfeit-currency-detection-equipment-1163/

In some cases. It is used to be that spotting a good counterfeit bill was impossible for ordinary people. It was good enough to pass the look and feel test then it was going to take an to take an ultraviolet light or a magnetic ink detector. The amount of counterfeit money in the U.S is low enough that most people feel safe taking money with barely a minimal check for counterfeits. For further information you may check this link http://www.casinosdiary.com

Quote: EvenBob

The vast majority of it that goes on in this country is by college students using copying machines in their dorm rooms to make 5's and 10's to pass at the pizza joint and in the college book store..

ummmm, I doubt this. Not these days. Any scanner sold in the last 8 years would detect a bill and intentionally blur the microprinting, even at 2400dpi. And every Xerox machine for the last decade at least keeps a record of EVERY single thing copied on the glass and sends a signal to homebase if anything not legit is copied, like store coupons, passports, cash, plane tickets, etc. Some models will print it, but only at lo-rez, or print "void" on it in faded text, or simply won't print it at 100% (125% is allowable, as is below 75%). These machine attributes aren't advertised, but I worked in commercial printing for 20 years, and heard hilarious stories from the Xerox guys about the fools who thought they could breach the system.

Quote: zippyboy

sends a signal to homebase if anything not legit is copied...

cell phone service is built in?

Chances are that Xerox is on a network. If it's got an ethernet cable, then it's accessible from anywhere in the world. Certainly if you're at a service bureau the machine is on their LAN so employees can print your file to it, and Xerox techs can run diagnostics remotely. And if the machine is big enough, then architects can print their drawings and plans to it through a simple browser from their offices miles away.

If you're using a 20-year old b&w machine at your local library only plugged into the wall outlet, maybe it'll let you copy a simple bar code and you can get away with it. However, there will still be a hard drive in there keeping copies of all you do, so you people who get copies of your tax returns before sending them off, beware. Dishonest service personnel will see your info.

I've tried scanning bills in order to make images that I can explore digitally. You can find details a lot better when you can change colors, contrast, etc. The scanner refuses to scan bills. A notice appears on the computer saying scanning bank notes is illegal, ro something like that.

At the big commercial copy places, they won't scan or copy bills at all.

I should try scanning notes from my collection. I've some old ones, foreign ones, and some that dont' even look like bills at all.

Quote: zippyboy

ummmm, I doubt this. Not these days. Any scanner sold in the last 8 years would detect a bill and intentionally blur the microprinting, even at 2400dpi. And every Xerox machine for the last decade at least keeps a record of EVERY single thing copied on the glass and sends a signal to homebase if anything not legit is copied, like store coupons, passports, cash, plane tickets, etc. Some models will print it, but only at lo-rez, or print "void" on it in faded text, or simply won't print it at 100% (125% is allowable, as is below 75%). These machine attributes aren't advertised, but I worked in commercial printing for 20 years, and heard hilarious stories from the Xerox guys about the fools who thought they could breach the system.

My son was doing a report on Andrew Jackson and he put a 20 in the scanner to print a picture for the report. After that, everything that was printed had a line running lengthwise down it. This was an HP.

Quote: zippyboy

ummmm, I doubt this. Not these days. Any scanner sold in the last 8 years would detect a bill and intentionally blur the microprinting, even at 2400dpi. And every Xerox machine for the last decade at least keeps a record of EVERY single thing copied on the glass and sends a signal to homebase if anything not legit is copied, like store coupons, passports, cash, plane tickets, etc. Some models will print it, but only at lo-rez, or print "void" on it in faded text, or simply won't print it at 100% (125% is allowable, as is below 75%). These machine attributes aren't advertised, but I worked in commercial printing for 20 years, and heard hilarious stories from the Xerox guys about the fools who thought they could breach the system.

People should also be aware of the fact that at least some printers put a unique code on every document they print which appears to identify the printer.

SeeingYellow.com

EFF: Is Your Printer Spying On You?

So remember, if you are trying to blackmail someone the best thing to do is ask the borrow the printer of the guy down the block that everybody hates.

Quote: Nareed

I have some experience detecting fake bills, and i can't think of any method that approaches looking at the back under normal light. Under UV light, you'll see either a fluorescent safety strip or fluorescent ink. The latter is used only on the back, but it's not visible under normal conditions. Against a backlight you can check for water marks, but 1) that works as well in the front and 2) there's no backlight at the casino table.

As someone else suggested, though, counterfeiting isn't that big a problem. I know people who handle large amoutns of cash, both pesos and dolalrs, and they detect only a handful of fake bills per year.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the casino do have UV lights over the tables to spot fakes. And if you do use fake bills, it will be on camera!

Quote: gofaster87

The problem with the gold pen method it only checks for authenticity of the paper. Another friend of mine that owned a franchise of B&Rs received a $100 bill that was really a $5 bill that was washed and reprinted. He has it still to this day.

Tell him he needs to be careful, it is a felony to have conterfeit bills in your posession except for a short term after you accepted them and the Secret Service picks them up. It should be tax deductible, however.

Quote: woodytyme

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the casino do have UV lights over the tables to spot fakes.

I would. UV lights cause sunburn. Granted in Vegas you ahve to mind your exposure to the sun, but you'd know it if you were gettign sunburned at a casino.

Ok, the so-called "black light" used as a UV source in counterfeit detection lamps is too feeble and confined to do much, but limiting exposure to it is recommended anyway. Given how tall the ceilings are in most casinos, they'd need very powerful UV lights, which would cause all kinds of trouble.

In Macau they use a UV flashlight on both sides of every single bill when you buy in and when you cash out they use a UV pen on both sides of every chip. When you bet large chips they also check the chips with the UV flashlight before paying out or taking your chip.

I always request $ 20 bills at the cashiers window. I never accrept any hundred Dollar or fifty Dollar bills. My buy in at the table is always in 20`s .

WASHOO2

In Feb & March of 2010 the treasury printed about 300 shipping palettes of their newest $100 banknote. A palette is 640,000 bills shrinkwrapped onto a standard shipping palette that you can move with a forklift. The banknotes alone weigh 1400 lbs.

Satisfied with their trial production run, in April of 2010 the treasury launched a media campaign extolling the benefits of the new bill. It has a 3-D security strip, a color changing inkwell, and a host of other devices to foil counterfeits. A promise was made to launch in February of 2011.

By the end of Sep 2010 a small press release came out and said that the Treasury was having production problems and they would have to delay the release date from Feb 2011 to an unknown later date. Finally in the first week of December 2010 a much longer story was issued that said the production problems were very severe, the design had a terrible problem, that they would begin printing more of the 2006 version to keep up interim demand, and it was no one's fault.

What's more, they have already printed well over $110 billion dollars of notes, that some people claim are worthless. They have a problem where the ink separates on some of the notes leaving little white crease lines. Production cost was about 12 cents per note, more than double the old notes.

On a scale of national problems how serious is this issue? After all we can just keep printing the old notes. My guess is that it will be considered an imperceptible problem domestically. However, distribution of counterfeit notes is a big problem overseas. If this issue knocks back a new series for many years, the international users may start increasingly turning to the Euro to store their money. Fear of counterfeits can be a thousand times worse than actual counterfeits. This note was supposed to offer everyone in the world quick check and easy checks for forgeries.

At a time when the dollar is under increasing attack as the basis for the world's financial system, this problem came at a bad time. They have over 1800 shipping palettes of these $100 banknotes that were printed by September. I suppose the difficult question is how they printed so many notes before they realized that they were defective.