I love dividend stocks.
September 5th, 2024 at 2:56:57 PM
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Okay..
I'm not big on SPYI, but it was $48 when it debuted in 2022 and is $49.92 today, which is about a 4% increase.
Since it debuted in 2022, it has made over twenty payouts. The smallest was more than forty cents, and the largest was around fifty-five cents.
Someone who bought SPYI when it came out in 2022 at $48 has received about $19 in income and seen the stock go up almost $2 a share. That's a total of $21 return on a $48 investment in under two years.
The first number you posted had it at +3.35, but that didn't include dividends. The second set does include dividends, but it's only for one year.
Can something else do better? Sure, but how much is too much? In five years, I'll have my initial investment back, continue to collect the dividends and not have to sell rising assets. JEPQ returned almost 30% last year.
These ETFs aren't your Uncle's dividend stocks. They exist to generate returns and income through decidedly non-traditional methods.
I'm not big on SPYI, but it was $48 when it debuted in 2022 and is $49.92 today, which is about a 4% increase.
Since it debuted in 2022, it has made over twenty payouts. The smallest was more than forty cents, and the largest was around fifty-five cents.
Someone who bought SPYI when it came out in 2022 at $48 has received about $19 in income and seen the stock go up almost $2 a share. That's a total of $21 return on a $48 investment in under two years.
The first number you posted had it at +3.35, but that didn't include dividends. The second set does include dividends, but it's only for one year.
Can something else do better? Sure, but how much is too much? In five years, I'll have my initial investment back, continue to collect the dividends and not have to sell rising assets. JEPQ returned almost 30% last year.
These ETFs aren't your Uncle's dividend stocks. They exist to generate returns and income through decidedly non-traditional methods.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 5th, 2024 at 7:15:29 PM
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CONY has a crazy 140% dividend yield. I wonder if the price of the stock will drop to zero eventually.
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
September 7th, 2024 at 8:46:26 PM
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Quote: billryanQuote: TomGquick google search:
QQQI started 2 Feb 2024: -0.88% all time
Nasdaq 100 since then: +7.46%
SPYI started 2 Sep 2022: +3.35 all time
S&P 500 in that time: +29.22%
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With $100 invested in SPYi, you'd have received thirty percent of your initial investment back in cash, $30, and $103 in stock.
With $100 invested in an S&P fund, you'd have $129 in stock.
Which would you prefer?
If the S&P fund paid 1.5% or more in dividends, I would be better off with that. If it paid less, I would be worse off. You showed very well that the two are designed to mirror each other, I'll much prefer the one with the lower fees, as that is the one most likely to do better than the other.
September 9th, 2024 at 10:48:19 AM
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JEPQ paid 55 cents a share this month, up from 42 cents last month. JEPI jumped from .29 cents per share to 40 cents.
While seniors fret about whether the next SS raise will be under four percent, any extra income is appreciated.
While seniors fret about whether the next SS raise will be under four percent, any extra income is appreciated.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 10th, 2024 at 9:32:29 AM
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Quote: billryanJEPQ paid 55 cents a share this month, up from 42 cents last month. JEPI jumped from .29 cents per share to 40 cents.
While seniors fret about whether the next SS raise will be under four percent, any extra income is appreciated.
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if you dont need the $, any reason to have a high dividend fund (ie: vanguard) in your ira?
yeah, it's tax free till you withdraw but would the s&p 500 index fund be better long term?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
September 11th, 2024 at 4:33:34 AM
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Quote: 100xOddsif you dont need the $, any reason to have a high dividend fund (ie: vanguard) in your ira?
yeah, it's tax free till you withdraw but would the s&p 500 index fund be better long term
for me personally, the answer is yes
that has been one of my key investments for a great many years
for others, maybe not, if they believe they have excellent trading/stock/fund picking skills
but here's some info re how other funds compared to the S&P 500
from the article:
"Study after study, though, shows why investors in active mutual funds are fed up. Active funds are generally lousy. In the past five years, 79% of large-cap funds lagged the S&P 500, says the S&P Dow Jones Indices SPIVA Scorecard. And their longer-term track record is even uglier. Nearly 88% of large-cap funds trailed the S&P 500 in the past 15 years.
And it's pretty much the same story across asset classes. Nearly 90% of all midcap and small-cap funds lagged their benchmarks."
this, of course means than any investor in the S&P 500 has beaten about 88% of professional money managers who run stock funds in the last 15 years
https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/personal-finance/sp500-actively-managed-funds-vs-passive/
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Last edited by: lilredrooster on Sep 11, 2024
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
September 11th, 2024 at 8:26:02 AM
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No, it doesn't. Mutual funds are so 20th century. It's like saying 90% of horse-drawn carriages can't compete with their gas-operated rivals. It's 100% true but mostly not very relevant.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 11th, 2024 at 8:49:12 AM
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Quote: billryanNo, it doesn't. Mutual funds are so 20th century.
once again, you're way, way, way wrong
from the link:
"The total global net assets of mutual funds registered in the United States amounted to approximately 25.5 trillion U.S. dollars in 2023, compared to around 5.53 trillion U.S. dollars in 1998."
.https://www.statista.com/statistics/255518/mutual-fund-assets-held-by-investment-companies-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=The%20total%20global%20net%20assets,trillion%20U.S.%20dollars%20in%201998.
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the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
September 11th, 2024 at 8:59:21 AM
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Quote: billryanNo, it doesn't. Mutual funds are so 20th century.
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Mutual funds are the best way for the average person to invest in the stock market.
September 11th, 2024 at 9:12:13 AM
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanNo, it doesn't. Mutual funds are so 20th century.
once again, you're way, way, way wrong
from the link:
"The total global net assets of mutual funds registered in the United States amounted to approximately 25.5 trillion U.S. dollars in 2023, compared to around 5.53 trillion U.S. dollars in 1998."
.https://www.statista.com/statistics/255518/mutual-fund-assets-held-by-investment-companies-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=The%20total%20global%20net%20assets,trillion%20U.S.%20dollars%20in%201998.
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You are looking at numbers but not looking at the context. MF assets rose from 5.5 to 25.5 trillion over 25 years, roughly 5X.
The Dow went from about 7,500 in 1998 to 40,000 in the same period. Many astute investors have reduced their holdings in mutual funds as better products have become available. Mutual funds were great in their day, and many older investors still hold on to them because they have done well with them over the years. I look at them as the landlines of today's market. Some people keep them out of habit, some people inherit them and don't know what to do, and many people are coaxed into them by advisors who like the fees they can pull.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 11th, 2024 at 9:19:33 AM
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Quote: TigerWuQuote: billryanNo, it doesn't. Mutual funds are so 20th century.
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Mutual funds are the best way for the average person to invest in the stock market.
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Not really. That was true for many decades but ETFs are one example of superior products. MFs made much more sense when individuals were stuck paying commissions for every trade.
Mutual funds lack transparency, are less tax-efficient, charge commissions, and are less flexible. Most people invest in mutual funds because they are taught they are the best way to invest.
Mutual funds work well enough; I own shares in a few, but I think ETFs work better.
MFs are fine for a beginner looking to put away a few hundred a month. Not so much for someone willing to put a little work into what should be their biggest investment.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 11th, 2024 at 9:25:43 AM
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Quote: billryanMany astute investors have
and many investors who thought they were very astute underperformed the broader indexes and underperformed them by a large margin
a great, great many
not you of course
my advice to anyone trying to make a decision re investments is not to follow the advice of billryan
or myself for that matter
but to take it upon themselves to read as much as they can about various investment opportunities, strategies and options before making their decisions
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the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
September 11th, 2024 at 9:51:02 AM
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanMany astute investors have
and many investors who thought they were very astute underperformed the broader indexes and underperformed them by a large margin
a great, great many
not you of course
my advice to anyone trying to make a decision re investments is not to follow the advice of billryan
or myself for that matter
but to take it upon themselves to read as much as they can about various investment opportunities, strategies and options before making their decisions
.
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I've never offered anyone advice on this. I posted about why I like dividend stocks for income. In my circumstances and at my age, it is a good choice for me. As your circumstances will be different, my only advice is to learn as much as possible to make the best choice for you. You can do things the way your grandpa did, or you might find things have improved in the years since he started.
Knowledge is power.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 11th, 2024 at 9:59:39 AM
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Quote: billryanKnowledge is power.
you imply that you have a great deal of knowledge re investments
I don't think so
no doubt you don't think I have much knowledge
no problem at all - as the Beatles said "obla di obla da life goes on blah - la la how the life goes on"
.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
September 11th, 2024 at 11:50:41 AM
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanKnowledge is power.
you imply that you have a great deal of knowledge re investments
I don't think so
no doubt you don't think I have much knowledge
no problem at all - as the Beatles said "obla di obla da life goes on blah - la la how the life goes on"
.
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I don't know shite about investing. I've been on an unbelievably lucky streak for the last fifty years, and I know what has worked for me. I had a goal and developed plans that helped me achieve it. I've no idea how much knowledge you have, nor do I really care. I'm not in a competition with you. If you think investing strictly in the S&P 500 is the way to go, I've heard worse plans. It's up about 250% over the last fifteen years, a bit over 15% yearly. Can that be sustained for the next fifteen?
I don't know if I'll be around in fifteen years, but if I am, I won't be investing the same way I was today or ten years ago. The world revolves, industries evolve, and astute investors adapt to them. I didn't need to be an expert on anything. I needed to recognize those who are and new trends and jump on their bandwagon.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 11th, 2024 at 11:56:25 AM
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Quote: billryanYou can do things the way your grandpa did
I needed to recognize new trends and jump on their bandwagon.
If you think investing strictly in the S&P 500 is the way to go, I've heard worse plans. It's up about 250% over the last fifteen years,
your great, great, great grandpa could have been trading dividend stocks
General Mills (GIS) has been paying dividends on its stocks since 1898
as if trading dividend stocks was a new, bold and creative idea
seriously, how ridiculous
oh, and one more thing about the S&P - from the link:
"Over the last 15 years, the S&P 500 advanced 495%, the Dow Jones Industrial Average advanced 362%,"
https://www.dividend.com/how-to-invest/15-companies-that-have-paid-dividends-for-more-than-100-years/
https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/06/27/the-average-stock-market-return-over-last-15-years/#:~:text=Over%20the%20last%2015%20years%2C%20the%20S%26P%20500%20advanced%20495,help%20compensate%20for%20economic%20volatility.
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Last edited by: lilredrooster on Sep 11, 2024
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
September 11th, 2024 at 1:11:18 PM
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Quote: billryan
Mutual funds lack transparency, are less tax-efficient, charge commissions, and are less flexible.
I've never been charged a commission for buying or selling a mutual fund. And I don't what you mean by "less flexible." You can buy them and sell them just like any other investment. Maybe you're talking about certain classes of mutual funds, but I'm talking about broad market index funds.
Quote:MFs are fine for a beginner looking to put away a few hundred a month.
Yes, as I said, the average investor saving for retirement.
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Quote:If you think investing strictly in the S&P 500 is the way to go, I've heard worse plans.
I haven't heard many that are better.
September 11th, 2024 at 1:20:46 PM
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanYou can do things the way your grandpa did
I needed to recognize new trends and jump on their bandwagon.
If you think investing strictly in the S&P 500 is the way to go, I've heard worse plans. It's up about 250% over the last fifteen years,
your great, great, great grandpa could have been trading dividend stocks
General Mills (GIS) has been paying dividends on its stocks since 1898
as if trading dividend stocks was a new, bold and creative idea
seriously, how ridiculous
oh, and one more thing about the S&P - from the link:
"Over the last 15 years, the S&P 500 advanced 495%, the Dow Jones Industrial Average advanced 362%,"
https://www.dividend.com/how-to-invest/15-companies-that-have-paid-dividends-for-more-than-100-years/
https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/06/27/the-average-stock-market-return-over-last-15-years/#:~:text=Over%20the%20last%2015%20years%2C%20the%20S%26P%20500%20advanced%20495,help%20compensate%20for%20economic%20volatility.
.
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I'm pretty sure Grandpa couldn't afford much in the line of stock as few stocks sold in less than 1000 lots, and he'd have paid commissions twice on each roundtrip. There were no ETFs whose only purpose is making money. I'm pretty sure covered calling didn't exist, so Grandpa couldn't use that strategy. My family was lucky enough to have members employed by the phone company since the 1940s so they were able to buy phone stocks at prices not available to the public. By reinvesting over the years, my aunts had dividend checks that exceeded their pensions. When the phone company broke up, they received shares in all the various companies and their spinoffs, including a number of startup cable systems that turned into cash cows.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 11th, 2024 at 6:51:07 PM
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This is a weirdly vicious fight over dividend stocks and mutual funds.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
September 12th, 2024 at 7:21:34 AM
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Really. Who'd have thunk dividend stock collecting was so evil?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 12th, 2024 at 8:23:22 AM
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If a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 12th, 2024 at 8:31:12 AM
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it's about circumstances. The dividends cause you to pay taxes in that year earned unless it's certain retirement accounts, so you are having a net negative effect if you don't take some in cash [if you see what I mean]. Of course many people have enough income they don't care about that.Quote: AxelWolfIf a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
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But that circumstance goes to what you want to do with whatever money you have, period, and how convenient you find auto-investment
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
September 12th, 2024 at 8:55:54 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfIf a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
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Yes, that's generally what most people do unless they are retired or need the dividends to live on (or just want some extra income).
September 12th, 2024 at 9:10:48 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfIf a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
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What is a good stock? What is the product? Do you like to eat? Have a place to get out of the rain?
If a machine pays out 101%, shouldn't you be on it 24/7? Does it make sense to sleep when you could be playing the machine? how can you vacation when you could be making money on that machine?
I don't have a pension, so I need monthly income. I could buy annuities that give me a lifetime income, but they are expensive and not adjusted for inflation. $2500 a month sounds nice now, but what will it buy in thirty years?
I could put it in a bank and get two percent interest or in a CD and get four percent interest, but that would require a lot of cash.
I could sell $2,500 worth of stock each month, but that involves timing the market. On Sept 2, I'd have had to sell 200 shares of XYZ to raise $2,500 but on Friday, I'd need to sell 205 shares.
I choose to invest in dividend stocks so that I get the $2,500 each month with no hassle. It's clean, involves nothing and is surprisingly tax efficient.
It's not like I'm eating people's pets. If other people can get a better ROI, that would benefit them. This is the path I've chosen. You are all welcome to follow your own.
If I started a thread saying I loved blueberry pancakes, some would have to try and edjumacate me that I should be eating strawberry cheeseburgers.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 12th, 2024 at 9:11:29 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfIf a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
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Generally growing companies don't offer dividends. Those companies either reinvest it in themselves or do a stock buyback.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 12th, 2024 at 10:17:21 AM
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Quote: DRichQuote: AxelWolfIf a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
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Generally growing companies don't offer dividends. Those companies either reinvest it in themselves or do a stock buyback.
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Nvidia just announced a one-cent share dividend. It sounds silly, but it is now open to funds that only invest in dividend stocks. On the opposite end of the spectrum, AIPI, which offers covered calls on Nvidia, is paying north of 20% in dividends.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 13th, 2024 at 8:42:10 AM
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i reinvest the dividends from my mutual funds + etfs in both my retirement and after tax accts.
i dont need the dividend $.
Anything better i can do with dividends in my after tax acct?
i dont need the dividend $.
Anything better i can do with dividends in my after tax acct?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
September 13th, 2024 at 9:12:17 AM
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Quote: 100xOddsi reinvest the dividends from my mutual funds + etfs in both my retirement and after tax accts.
i dont need the dividend $.
Anything better i can do with dividends in my after tax acct?
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Before anyone could give you a reasoned reply, they'd need to know your age, finances, net worth, aspirations, marriage status, and so on. I don't believe any one strategy works best for everyone besides investing early and often.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 13th, 2024 at 10:26:38 AM
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Here is a few that I have invested in (and still have shares)
The group as a whole has a 12.3% dividend, and over the last 4+ years is up 61.9%
The initial cost is 70,875, and present value (if sold) is 114,760
At present buying 1000 shares each costs about 56,500 with a 7,000 dividend.
EFC 11.8%
MFA 11.0%
NLY 12.8%
AGNC 14.0%
NuttmegPoker
The group as a whole has a 12.3% dividend, and over the last 4+ years is up 61.9%
The initial cost is 70,875, and present value (if sold) is 114,760
At present buying 1000 shares each costs about 56,500 with a 7,000 dividend.
EFC 11.8%
MFA 11.0%
NLY 12.8%
AGNC 14.0%
NuttmegPoker
September 14th, 2024 at 9:12:38 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfIf a stock is good then wouldn't one want to forgo any dividends and just reinvest the money back into the stock compounding earnings?
In theory, if it’s a good bet, we should have already invested as much as possible based on expected return, expected growth, risk, and available assets. Putting any more money put us in a worse position by overbetting on it, like what John Kelly discovered in the 1950s.
