I QUIT!

Quote: mwalz9

Best of luck to you all!

And to you as well. I am optimistic that now that you know this, you can stay strong and avoid gambling.

As others I think have already pointed out, it took courage to post your story. Thank-you for that.

I always get worried when people like the big bets.

I'll take a 100% deposit match bonus with some small playthrough requirement and people will ask me, "How can you possibly stand betting $0.50/hand; how can you stand playing Baccarat for $1/hand?"

It's because I want to guarantee that I make profits.

I could make $50 bets, say on a $500 deposit match with small rollover, but then it would be possible to lose money overall which, to me, would be silly. Why do I want to risk the possibility of losing money overall on a promotion that can be played in a way that, short of the casino not paying me, I can't possibly fail to make a profit?

So, when I know that someone bets big online, even when playing +EV promotions, always gets me suspicious and worried about this sort of thing.

My general advice to people is that if betting big gives you an adrenaline rush, then you might be better off not to gamble. That's just my opinion. I guess it's different if you only do +EV stuff, but even then, I would have my concerns about anyone who gets an adrenaline rush or euphoric feeling from it.

My mentality is when I lose I'm furious and when I win, I don't really care. I'm also not optimistic and assume I will run below my EV, which I almost always do.

Quote: Mission146

I always get worried when people like the big bets.

I'll take a 100% deposit match bonus with some small playthrough requirement and people will ask me, "How can you possibly stand betting $0.50/hand; how can you stand playing Baccarat for $1/hand?"

It's because I want to guarantee that I make profits.

I could make $50 bets, say on a $500 deposit match with small rollover, but then it would be possible to lose money overall which, to me, would be silly. Why do I want to risk the possibility of losing money overall on a promotion that can be played in a way that, short of the casino not paying me, I can't possibly fail to make a profit?

So, when I know that someone bets big online, even when playing +EV promotions, always gets me suspicious and worried about this sort of thing.

My general advice to people is that if betting big gives you an adrenaline rush, then you might be better off not to gamble. That's just my opinion. I guess it's different if you only do +EV stuff, but even then, I would have my concerns about anyone who gets an adrenaline rush or euphoric feeling from it.

My mentality is when I lose I'm furious and when I win, I don't really care. I'm also not optimistic and assume I will run below my EV, which I almost always do.
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Picking out part of your post to requote:

Quote:

My general advice to people is that if betting big gives you an adrenaline rush, then you might be better off not to gamble. That's just my opinion. I guess it's different if you only do +EV stuff, but even then, I would have my concerns about anyone who gets an adrenaline rush or euphoric feeling from it.

A good warning sign to know what to avoid is when you first notice the beginning of a compulsion. Compulsion warning signs are when you start changing your original plans to do something else, so that you can do that thing, whatever it is. It's so much easier to break this initial phase than the hell someone may eventually have to deal with.

Of course, if it's some positive thing, you may embrace.it. But even some positive things may interfere wiith other responsibilities. Like someone who loves to work and succeed 16 hours a day and neglects all his kid's childhoods.

Quote: Mission146

(All quotes OnceDear, some statements removed-relevance. Quoting in part to not duplicate, in full, a long post with quotes already)

Quote:

5 figures could soon go. Don't do it 100x

Again, taking all MWalz's posts at face value, there are patterns that many of us can relate to. A few early wins in the $thousands, a few advantage plays that worked, afeeling that all that money behind him was bankroll, but not money in danger, and most pernicious of all, an embracing of the idea that taking a few thousand to the casino would give repeatable opportunities to 'hit and run' for $50, $100 or whatever.
There's a loud siren warning of the dangers of accessible online gambling, too. He seems to have gone from an hour and a half round trip to the casino twice a month, to 6 nights a week in casino, to wagering every day online.

I mean, that's one of the potential dangers of the accessibility of online casinos, right?

There's also the problem of trust in that most people are going to trust legalized/regulated casinos within their own states, so that level of trust makes it more likely that a person is going to play with them.

Another problem with them being legalized/regulated is that you can't even watch the news without seeing an advertisement for one online casino or another. You see billboards, you hear radio ads if you listen to the sports talk, maybe even on music stations, the whole nine.

When it was just the offshore online casinos, you could pretty easily make it so that you never visit or read about them again unless you deliberately seek them out. With state regulated online casinos, you'd have to live in a cave to not be exposed to advertising for those in some fashion.

Anyway, you can expect a lot of similar stories to that of MWalz in the coming years. The good news is that he recognizes a problem and is working to rectify it; I think he will be successful in doing so.

Others won't be so fortunate. Some will go bankrupt as a result. Some will self-terminate as a result; it is what it is.

Quote:

This is exactly why, back in my moderating days, I was so scathing of anyone touting 'Hit and run', 'Win goal' strategies. It's so easy to get seduced by the appeal of such Bull.

Even now, this forum permits and encourages folk to emulate such nonsense.

Should forum moderators have any duty of care? Or are we ALL big boys and girls perfectly capable of staying safe?
MWalz, sadly disproves the latter question quite conclusively. Which just leaves the first question.

I don't know what you want. If it's gambling-related, then people can discuss it here.

I mean, you can check out the post my signature goes to if you want, so if that's not a warning coming from a math guy I don't know what to tell people.

The Moderators have no duty of care. For one thing, unless something changed, the mods don't even get paid.

Secondly, this is a gambling website. With gambling comes the potential risk of getting addicted to gambling. This is a risk that, I would hope, anyone visiting a gambling message board already acknowledges they are taking. If you're even visiting a gambling message board, or WoO, then you already have some level of interest in gambling.

I don't think there's any more a duty of care there than the person at the liquor store, or bartender, has to provide to alcoholics. If you drink, then you probably know what alcoholism is and that it is possible for a person to become an alcoholic. You partake in the spiritous beverages even knowing that potential; it is what it is.

If you don't want to become an alcoholic, then you should never drink in the first place. If you don't want to risk becoming addicted to gambling, then you should never gamble in the first place, and, if you do gamble already and you're concerned with the potential to become addicted, then just stop gambling now and you will make it less likely that you will.

So, I don't think the second question is disproven, because it doesn't have ONE answer.

I think some people are psychologically predisposed to gambling addiction. There was a really good Australian (I think) documentary on the subject. Others, I think, are capable of staying safe---just not everyone. Even some who might be psychologically predisposed to gambling addiction may gamble and still not become addicts.

Thus, if you think MWalz9 disproves that people are categorically unable to, "Stay safe," then the same would have to be true with any activity that can lead to addiction, but the same is not true of all such activities and it's not true of gambling.

However, the one way to guarantee that you never become a gambling addict, I reiterate, is to never gamble.
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A president has been set regarding members with a gambling problem. IIRC 2 people we know of have had their accounts terminated for their own good. IIRC that's why Kenty was booted.

That would be a precedent, but I'll never set foot inside of a Trump property if I can help it. Surveillance camera footage probably goes to problem gamblers like James Woods, who may have just quit twitter today..

There's no way MWalz9 could know exactly what his handle was at a brick and mortar casino, unless he kept a running tally and asked his host about it most every day. He posted about how he would hit the brick and mortar casino on the way home from work many times a week, if not every weekday! I mean even during periods that I am in Vegas continuously I don't play every day!

I stand by my assessment that he didn't know when to quit and kept playing until he lost it all most every time, towards the bitter end I mean. I assume he was chasing losses and trying to win too much given his bankroll and max bet, time and again.

Anyway, I don't recall his ever claiming to have made 250K in a year, I accept that he did. Maybe that happened only one year and that was the year he stepped up his casino play. I do recall his saying that his income was somehow dramatically lowered. It just goes to show that income isn't everything, it takes a lot more than income to be wealthy. The ability to sock away multi multi millions comes from more than good income it comes from good habits. And then also - some wealthy people have a lot of assets but not as much liquid as one would think.

Basically, if you can't take a few hundred K hit at the casinos and yawn, you shouldn't be playing big in the first place. Not that anyone wants to lose, but you shouldn't be playing with blood money.

That comment Vegasrider made about how if you're single versus if you have a family that you should be more responsible of course also makes sense.

Quote: AxelWolf

I know a few people that are Advantage Players who are addicted to action/playing, but they only play games with an advantage they won't touch -EV stuff unless absolutely necessary for cover. They are super successful.
Aside from being smart, their success is also contributed to the eagerness to find +EV plays and to put a ton of hours in.
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i've tried but cant stick to the rule of ONLY playing known +ev situations.

i chase high progressives.
ie: $40 (4x reset) mini

i also believe that max bet will immensely help in hitting that progressive once i trigger the jackpot bonus.
unfortunately, getting that jackpot bonus to activate is the problem.

i've lost $2k in an slot chasing a $60 mini. (4x reset)
combination of lack of bonus rounds and when i get them, it paid very little plus a long time before getting a jackpot pick but hitting the minor thus needing to play more to get another shot at the mini.

other times i max bet chasing a high progressive and hit a handpay.
i guess i like the action/variance which is bad if you're AP.

2023 resolution: wait till it's 8x reset
reason: i dread entering all those w2g's when i file my 2022 taxes next year

and it should cut down on my swings

Quote: Mission146

MWalz is a man from West Virginia, so there's no way he cried, thus the event is satire.

He is from West Virginia. He may have cried when he found out his sister was pregnant and it was his brothers baby and not his.

Quote: mwalz9

Hey guys,

Long time no see.

Just wanted to pop in and see how everyone was.

Myself, I have been struggling, but I am on the road to recovery. I recently stopped gambling. I self excluded from every casino (brick and mortar and online) in West Virginia. I started GA meetings and have a counselor. I needed help, and needed it bad! I was about to lose everything I have, including my family. In the last 3 years since online gambling became legal here in WV, my net loss is 6 figures on a high 7 figure amount played. My credit cards are maxed out and Im on the verge of bankruptcy.

Luckily, I stopped it in time!

Hope all is well here. Miss you guys!
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"My job is not done until the customers last check to the casino bounces." Benny Binion in the 1950s, owner of the Horseshoe Casino in downtown Vegas. The attitude of casinos has not changed a bit. They will bleed you dry.

Quote: EvenBob

(snipped to relevant part)

"My job is not done until the customers last check to the casino bounces." Benny Binion in the 1950s, owner of the Horseshoe Casino in downtown Vegas. The attitude of casinos has not changed a bit. They will bleed you dry.
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Bleed you dry, kick you to the curb, and forget who you are.

I have a compulsive personality. I know it. Sometimes it's a very, very good thing to have: mastering a new software paradigm (let to a book and about two years of speaking gigs); picking up the writing/author gig (it's not easy, but I'm in the fun part of the 'S' curve); and sticking to an investigation until it's done. Obviously, when the compulsion is towards the vices, things go bad rather quickly.

I know that I am in danger when it comes to gambling. Therefore, I set limits around myself. My ATM card does not link to my main checking, but a small account I fund with mad money. Casino credit? I have a low limit. I have no other way to get cash in the casino, so my ability to steam brick-walls fairly soon. I refuse to patronize any online casinos, even when I lived in a state where I could do so (my new state prohibits online gambling)

But, the greatest limitation on my gambling behavior is my spouse, which is a good thing. The worst day this year is when I told her that 50% of this year's losses happened on that one trip. My decision to be accountable to her keeps me in check when I'm in the lions' den. She is the only thing that has kept all of my compulsions at bay in my life. I shudder to think where I'd be without her.