100xOdds
100xOdds
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August 13th, 2022 at 7:12:36 AM permalink
Let say you and 3 buddies have an hr to kill before dinner at a mid-level Italian place. ($25/plate)
You're sitting at the bar with vp tops.
Someone comes up with the idea about worst of the best vp hand among them pays for dinner. (in terms of payout)
so quads in ddb (250 credits) will beat quads at JoB (125 credits).
.25 denom

All are competent in VP.
Play the best return game or..?

What's the best strategy to at least not be last?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ChumpChange
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August 13th, 2022 at 9:46:10 AM permalink
It's possible that Full House will be the worst top hand in an hour.
AlanMendelson
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August 13th, 2022 at 10:20:08 AM permalink
I think about this question in a different context: some casinos have a royal flush progressive and the machines have six or nine games.

I think the chance of a royal is slimmest with any deuces game, while the chance of a royal is best with Jacks or Bonus.

If playing the progressive why not stick with Jacks or Bonus... yet I see many playing deuces.
Dieter
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August 13th, 2022 at 10:22:47 AM permalink
I'm assuming that a "best vp hand" has to pay at least 20 for 1 to qualify, and that the hands are scored on the relative value of x for 1, and that multiplier games (UX, STP, DSTP, Hot Roll, multistrike, shockwave, etc) are out.

I'm also assuming that if someone is playing a multiline game, the score gets divided by the number of lines in play, so hitting 4 deuces on one line of a five line would only count as 40 for 1.

I usually say to play deuces wild, although I have no strong math to support it.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
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August 13th, 2022 at 10:26:42 AM permalink
If I was in this "contest" all four players should choose one game and play one hand. Best hand wins... or worst hand pays for dinner.

AKQJ2 beats AKQ52 as an example.
camapl
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August 13th, 2022 at 11:37:26 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Let say you and 3 buddies have an hr to kill before dinner at a mid-level Italian place. ($25/plate)
You're sitting at the bar with vp tops.
Someone comes up with the idea about worst of the best vp hand among them pays for dinner. (in terms of payout)
so quads in ddb (250 credits) will beat quads at JoB (125 credits).
.25 denom

All are competent in VP.
Play the best return game or..?

What's the best strategy to at least not be last?
link to original post



Under these criteria and without any other assumption of minimum credits to qualify, I would play a game that pays 250 for the smallest quads and does not have the lowest full house compared to what my companions have chosen.
Itís a dog eat dog world. ÖOr maybe itís the other way around!
Dieter
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August 13th, 2022 at 1:48:43 PM permalink
I think you may wish to adjust strategy from basic/optimal; I think that the tournament circumstance would favor holding only trips instead of a full house.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Dieter
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August 13th, 2022 at 3:11:48 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I think the chance of a royal is slimmest with any deuces game, while the chance of a royal is best with Jacks or Bonus.
link to original post



You've piqued my curiosity.
I was under the impression that for any given hold on a 52 card game, the draw chances were the same.
The chances should change with a 53 card deck (like Joker Poker), or one of the odd online variants where the discards get shuffled into the stub before the draw.

The "Royal cycle" changes based on the optimum hold for the paytable sometimes being to throw part of a royal, perhaps that's what was meant?
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
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August 13th, 2022 at 6:15:41 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: AlanMendelson

I think the chance of a royal is slimmest with any deuces game, while the chance of a royal is best with Jacks or Bonus.
link to original post



You've piqued my curiosity.
I was under the impression that for any given hold on a 52 card game, the draw chances were the same.
The chances should change with a 53 card deck (like Joker Poker), or one of the odd online variants where the discards get shuffled into the stub before the draw.

The "Royal cycle" changes based on the optimum hold for the paytable sometimes being to throw part of a royal, perhaps that's what was meant?
link to original post



Chances of a royal are slimmer in every DW games because you don't drop deuces.

I believe royals in DW come about once in 45,000 hands but only once in 40,600 hands in Jacks.
Dieter
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August 13th, 2022 at 6:25:21 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AlanMendelson

I think the chance of a royal is slimmest with any deuces game, while the chance of a royal is best with Jacks or Bonus.
link to original post



You've piqued my curiosity.
I was under the impression that for any given hold on a 52 card game, the draw chances were the same.
The chances should change with a 53 card deck (like Joker Poker), or one of the odd online variants where the discards get shuffled into the stub before the draw.

The "Royal cycle" changes based on the optimum hold for the paytable sometimes being to throw part of a royal, perhaps that's what was meant?
link to original post



Chances of a royal are slimmer in every DW games because you don't drop deuces.

I believe royals in DW come about once in 45,000 hands but only once in 40,600 hands in Jacks.
link to original post



If you held DW the same way as in JoB, the royal cycle would be the same... right?
Overall RTP would be lower, because the hold strategy is what it is to maximize RTP for the paytable.

In any case, I still think a more aggressive than paytable optimal RTP strategy is warranted, because the tournament pays a 400+ coin penalty if you don't finish with one of the top 3 hands.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
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August 13th, 2022 at 7:04:54 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AlanMendelson

I think the chance of a royal is slimmest with any deuces game, while the chance of a royal is best with Jacks or Bonus.
link to original post



You've piqued my curiosity.
I was under the impression that for any given hold on a 52 card game, the draw chances were the same.
The chances should change with a 53 card deck (like Joker Poker), or one of the odd online variants where the discards get shuffled into the stub before the draw.

The "Royal cycle" changes based on the optimum hold for the paytable sometimes being to throw part of a royal, perhaps that's what was meant?
link to original post



Chances of a royal are slimmer in every DW games because you don't drop deuces.

I believe royals in DW come about once in 45,000 hands but only once in 40,600 hands in Jacks.
link to original post



If you held DW the same way as in JoB, the royal cycle would be the same... right?
Overall RTP would be lower, because the hold strategy is what it is to maximize RTP for the paytable.

In any case, I still think a more aggressive than paytable optimal RTP strategy is warranted, because the tournament pays a 400+ coin penalty if you don't finish with one of the top 3 hands.
link to original post



If you were in a tournament playing DW would you sacrifice a wild royal for 125 coins for a 1/47 chance at a natural royal? But if you miss your next Best hand is a straight flush for 65(?) And after that the hands drop to a flush or straight.
Dieter
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August 13th, 2022 at 8:39:16 PM permalink
That's the beauty of a high hand tournament.
I can hold the first dealt dirty royal, then try for something worth more if I get another.

On the strictly RTP game, it looks like holding the dirty royal is preferable.
May the cards fall in your favor.
100xOdds
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August 14th, 2022 at 2:57:19 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

In any case, I still think a more aggressive than paytable optimal RTP strategy is warranted, because the tournament pays a 400+ coin penalty if you don't finish with one of the top 3 hands.
link to original post

Sounds like DW isnt the game to play for this wager?
but then again, getting 5 OaK or straight flush maybe good enough to not be last.
both will usually beat a 45coin win full house on most other games (JoB/ddb).
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Dieter
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August 14th, 2022 at 6:46:40 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Dieter

In any case, I still think a more aggressive than paytable optimal RTP strategy is warranted, because the tournament pays a 400+ coin penalty if you don't finish with one of the top 3 hands.
link to original post

Sounds like DW isnt the game to play for this wager?
but then again, getting 5 OaK or straight flush maybe good enough to not be last.
both will usually beat a 45coin win full house on most other games (JoB/ddb).
link to original post



Could be that I graciously buy dinner if I work my little scheme.
Could be that I hit quad deuces.

Linguini alle vongole is so much better when it's a prize.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Talldude90
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December 2nd, 2022 at 12:39:29 PM permalink
What about bonus duces wild. Still have the 125 coin wild royal and then you have the bonus pays? (sorry for the necro post but it seems like a cool thread)
DRich
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December 2nd, 2022 at 5:13:44 PM permalink
Quote: Talldude90

What about bonus duces wild. Still have the 125 coin wild royal and then you have the bonus pays? (sorry for the necro post but it seems like a cool thread)
link to original post



I have played 10's of millions of dollars on Bonus Deuces games. Probably still my favorite video poker game.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Mental
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Mission146
December 2nd, 2022 at 5:19:29 PM permalink
First, I would play slowly. Like one hand in the whole time. If that is not allowed, I would hold a pat losing hand if I needed to to avoid scoring a win that would cause me to lose..

I once played a VP tournament that paid out $250 for last place. You had to play off all 1000 credits to qualify for this last-place prize. I played 200 hands and scored a perfect zero.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
DRich
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December 2nd, 2022 at 5:27:44 PM permalink
Quote: Mental


I once played a VP tournament that paid out $250 for last place. You had to play off all 1000 credits to qualify for this last-place prize. I played 200 hands and scored a perfect zero.
link to original post



That is impressive, and very improbable.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Mental
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December 2nd, 2022 at 5:37:22 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental


I once played a VP tournament that paid out $250 for last place. You had to play off all 1000 credits to qualify for this last-place prize. I played 200 hands and scored a perfect zero.
link to original post



That is impressive, and very improbable.
link to original post

It has been a long time since I did the calculations and I forgot what the tournament game was. However, I recall that I was expecting to score between 0 and 15. I did change my VP program to print out the ideal lowest EV strategy. Since I was the only one going low, I did not have to be very good on the execution. I recall that the second lowest score was over 200, and I could have easily underperformed this just winging a min-EV strategy. Mostly, I just held pat losers.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
AxelWolf
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December 2nd, 2022 at 6:45:06 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

First, I would play slowly. Like one hand in the whole time. If that is not allowed, I would hold a pat losing hand if I needed to to avoid scoring a win that would cause me to lose..

I once played a VP tournament that paid out $250 for last place. You had to play off all 1000 credits to qualify for this last-place prize. I played 200 hands and scored a perfect zero.
link to original post

Horseshoe/Binions had timed VP tournaments with last place prizes that were decent amounts. I was going to target last-place prizes, but I got a strong feeling they didn't feel that was in the spirit of the tournament. I felt It wasn't worth catching heat.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 3rd, 2022 at 11:20:27 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I have played 10's of millions of dollars on Bonus Deuces games. Probably still my favorite video poker game.
link to original post

that game just eats my $ but small sample size.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
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