The new WoV
Quote: AlanMendelsonYou're ridiculous. What I wrote was clearly my experience. I even wrote:
"If you're getting mailers now that are like those that were pre Covid lucky you.
Mine are about 10% of pre Covid levels."
I know what's going on here. You just want to throw barbs at me. Well, go at it if that's what you want to do.
For the record, pre Covid I was getting free play of $300 per visit at Caesars. Now it's $15.
At Red Rock I was getting about $375:per week, now it's $80.
At Suncoast I was getting $120 per week, now it's $40.
I'm pretty certain that has nothing to do with Covid-19
Quote: darkozI'm pretty certain that has nothing to do with Covid-19
Really? After the casinos were closed for 78 days? And now they have 38% occupancy.
Quote: AlanMendelsonReally? After the casinos were closed for 78 days? And now they have 38% occupancy.
Absolutely!
Those issues are immaterial.
If offers were to drop due to hardship it would be the frequency of offers not the amounts
Perhaps you would get $250 once a week instead of five days a week.
They would not drop your offers the way you describe
Quote: AlanMendelsonReally? After the casinos were closed for 78 days? And now they have 38% occupancy.
You've decided that your offers dropped because of COVID-19. That is your truth, and you'll never consider any other possibility.
Turning Stone
NEW! Caesars Rewards members can now enjoy the perks from another great loyalty program! Just link your Caesars Rewards account to a TS Rewards account and your status will be matched. Plus, transfer your Reward Credits to TS points and vice versa.
So does this mean if I get banned from one casino, I'll get banned from the other? I've had a very big mouth lately.
Turn Reward Credits into free play ($1/200 RCs)
https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/benefits-overview
Earn at least 1 Reward Credit for every $5 you play on a reel slot machine. Some machines have lower earn rates and these games will be clearly marked with the different rate. https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/earn-and-redeem
So you play $1000 coin-in on slots and get $1 Free Play. If you put in $15K coin-in, you'll get $15 of free play. That's 0.1% payback! Kind of like interest rates at the bank these days. Weren't bank interest rates near 2% sometime last year?
If the machines paid out 94%, you'd lose $900 on a $15K coin-in, and you'd get a third back ($300) at a 2% comp rate.
If the machines paid out 99.7%, you'd lose $45 on a $15K coin-in, and you'd get a third back ($15) at a 0.1% comp rate.
I have to put $20K of coin-in to get the 4,000 RC's ($20 worth) to qualify for a Platinum Tier card that could get me complimentary valet or self-serve parking!
Player's card isn't worth the plastic it's printed on now.
Quote: ChumpChangeMATCH YOUR STATUS
Turning Stone
NEW! Caesars Rewards members can now enjoy the perks from another great loyalty program! Just link your Caesars Rewards account to a TS Rewards account and your status will be matched. Plus, transfer your Reward Credits to TS points and vice versa.
So does this mean if I get banned from one casino, I'll get banned from the other? I've had a very big mouth lately.
Turn Reward Credits into free play ($1/200 RCs)
https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/benefits-overview
Earn at least 1 Reward Credit for every $5 you play on a reel slot machine. Some machines have lower earn rates and these games will be clearly marked with the different rate. https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/earn-and-redeem
So you play $1000 coin-in on slots and get $1 Free Play. If you put in $15K coin-in, you'll get $15 of free play. That's 0.1% payback! Kind of like interest rates at the bank these days. Weren't bank interest rates near 2% sometime last year?
If the machines paid out 94%, you'd lose $900 on a $15K coin-in, and you'd get a third back ($300) at a 2% comp rate.
If the machines paid out 99.7%, you'd lose $45 on a $15K coin-in, and you'd get a third back ($15) at a 0.1% comp rate.
I have to put $20K of coin-in to get the 4,000 RC's ($20 worth) to qualify for a Platinum Tier card that could get me complimentary valet or self-serve parking!
Player's card isn't worth the plastic it's printed on now.
Nice summary. Much appreciated.
Quote: PokerGrinderI’m an AP who does nothing with mailers as it’s sadly not an option in my region. Even though I’ve never done anything with them, from my limited knowledge I know EXACTLY what DO is doing to generate the FP and would happily PM him for him to agree that I know exactly what he’s doing. It’s not difficult to figure out as he had basically said exactly what he’s doing.
You can pm me.
Quote: sabreYou've decided that your offers dropped because of COVID-19. That is your truth, and you'll never consider any other possibility.
Suppose I told you I talked to my host and to a casino manager who both told me that offers were cut because the casino had Covid losses to regain?
It's the same reason why Red Rock no longer offers $5 craps. You sometimes will find a new table opening at $10 but as soon as they have three players (limit is 6) they'll raise it to $15.
Quote: AlanMendelsonSuppose I told you I talked to my host and to a casino manager who both told me that offers were cut because the casino had Covid losses to regain?
It's the same reason why Red Rock no longer offers $5 craps. You sometimes will find a new table opening at $10 but as soon as they have three players (limit is 6) they'll raise it to $15.
There is no reason not to believe this. According to Facebook accounts (corroborated by the casino itself) a casino local to me changed to only giving free drinks to players of the top two card tiers.
Quote: AlanMendelsonSuppose I told you I talked to my host and to a casino manager who both told me that offers were cut because the casino had Covid losses to regain?
It's the same reason why Red Rock no longer offers $5 craps. You sometimes will find a new table opening at $10 but as soon as they have three players (limit is 6) they'll raise it to $15.
I'm certain offers may have been cut due to Covid-19.
But not the way you described.
Your $300 per day would not drop to $15 due to Covid-19.
Someone getting $300 per day is a valuable customer to the casino. Insulting the player by dropping it to $15 to save money due to Covid-19 isn't going to entice that player back in.
I'm sure your offers did drop but not due to Covid-19.
Also casino hosts are mostly clueless in my opinion as to how their casinos comps actually work
Couldn't they both be correct?
Plus, really, past experience as a predictor of present casino behavior is of limited value, I would think, just because we have never seen this situation before. Management roles and responsibilities may be getting see-sawed back and forth and panicked strategies implemented.
Tough to make any hard and fast predictions, much less argue about them.
Quote: redietzFar be it for me to try to take a compromising stance here, but since Darkoz is A.C. based and Alan Mendelson is L.V. based, isn't it inappropriate for one to make any kind of proclamations regarding comp effects from Covid-19 in the other's stomping grounds? I trust Darkoz's comp expertise in A.C., and I trust Alan's comp knowledge in L.V. and California.
Couldn't they both be correct?
Plus, really, past experience as a predictor of present casino behavior is of limited value, I would think, just because we have never seen this situation before. Management roles and responsibilities may be getting see-sawed back and forth and panicked strategies implemented.
Tough to make any hard and fast predictions, much less argue about them.
There are most certainly nuances I won't know about in Vegas.
But there are also things that will be consistent.
Taking Alan's suggestion that due to Covid-19 $300 freeplay customers have been cut to just $15, the next question then is what were the $15 players cut to?
$2.15?
If the casino simply doesn't hand out more than $15 in freeplay will normal $300 Players be happy in receiving the same freeplay as $15 normal Players.
I'm pretty confident when you start asking these questions you will come to the logical conclusion.
Plus my knowledge of how comps systems in general work (I have a multi-state operation even if on the East Coast) and I am confident Alan's offers were not dropped due to Covid-19.
Some of his offers possibly but not the type of drop he is referring to
Quote: darkozI'm certain offers may have been cut due to Covid-19.
But not the way you described.
Your $300 per day would not drop to $15 due to Covid-19.
Someone getting $300 per day is a valuable customer to the casino. Insulting the player by dropping it to $15 to save money due to Covid-19 isn't going to entice that player back in.
I'm sure your offers did drop but not due to Covid-19.
Also casino hosts are mostly clueless in my opinion as to how their casinos comps actually work
There are other potential factors that might have taken place simultaneously--such as the amount of play on the card in recent visits. My point is that there is no question that some casinos are cutting comps/offers/perks for certain categories of players...and perhaps some are cutting across the board.
Quote: Mission146There are other potential factors that might have taken place simultaneously--such as the amount of play on the card in recent visits.
Bingo!
Quote: DRichI have worked on player tracking systems that reward based on play in the last 3 months. Due to Covid there was probably almost no play for the past 3 months so I could see a mailer dropping from $300 to $15.
I respectfully disagree.
But assuming that was correct then resuming similar valid play would return that person to the $300 level.
Which would mean offers were not cut due to Covid-19 cost-cutting measures but simply inactivity
Quote: darkoz
Which would mean offers were not cut due to Covid-19 cost-cutting measures but simply inactivity
I think that would be a valid possibility.
At the same time we have DarkOz's mixed statements about "I make $20000. a week" which he has clarified to mean that his plays bring in $20,000. on a perfect week, which still we haven't received any clear indication of what exactly the man puts in his pocket NET and how often, just a lot of figures tossed out there. I am not sure if Alan is saying that DarkOz is lying but I am not saying that at all. I am saying that given the way DarkOz interprets things, I don't believe that he even knows or is able to express exactly what he is putting in his pocket net on an ongoing basis in a hard dollar and cents audited balance sheet way, and in any case, he hasn't told us other than in vague terms. We just go back to the circular argument of what he thinks "I make $20000. a week" means.
Just not really worth chasing down further in my opinion probably not going to come to any resolution.
Quote: darkoz
Which would mean offers were not cut due to Covid-19 cost-cutting measures but simply inactivity
Kind of both at the same time, really.
Quote: MDawgI think it's ridiculous to tell Alan that what he's seeing with his own eyes his own offers is "wrong."
At the same time we have DarkOz's mixed statements about "I make $20000. a week" which he has clarified to mean that his plays bring in $20,000. on a perfect week, which still we haven't received any clear indication of what exactly the man puts in his pocket NET and how often, just a lot of figures tossed out there. I am not sure if Alan is saying that DarkOz is lying but I am not saying that at all. I saying that given the way DarkOz interprets things, I don't believe that he even knows or is able to express exactly what he is putting in his pocket net on an ongoing basis in a hard dollar and cents audited balance sheet way, and in any case, he hasn't told us other than in vague terms. We just go back to the circular argument of what he thinks "I make $20000. a week" means.
Just not really worth chasing down further in my opinion probably not going to come to any resolution.
I'm not denying what Alan is seeing.
I'm denying his interpretation of what caused it.
Currently I am on week 9 of making $20,000 a week AFTER expenses.
I expect that to continue through September.
After that I am moving to New markets. I will probably be making about $6,000 a week for a few weeks.
.
Just like other people's offers mine vary as well which is why I go weekly.
Again anyone who assumes a weekly amount must be all 52 weeks of the year is just trying to make a strawman argument against me.
If I was consistently making $20,000 a week then I would not say that. I would just say I make a million a year.
I don't understand why that concept is so hard to understand..
If you work at McDonald's for 6 months and tell someone you made $400 weekly, it would be pretty upsetting to argue you lied because you didn't make $400 a week all year
Quote: Mission146Kind of both at the same time, really.
Lol, I get what you are saying.
That's not what Alan is saying.
This whole conversation started because he doesn't believe I can get the offers I currently claim because due to Covid-19 casinos have drastically dropped their offers
Quote: darkozLol, I get what you are saying.
That's not what Alan is saying.
This whole conversation started because he doesn't believe I can get the offers I currently claim because due to Covid-19 casinos have drastically dropped their offers
I never said that. My participation in your discussion was that offers do drop off from lack of play. I used to get thousands of dollars of free play from Rincon each month but when my play dropped the free play offers dropped.
I've asked you to comment how quickly these free play offers drop off when your "employees" are only playing the free play. You never responded. I doubt you get perpetual free play. Then you revealed this mailer is from 2014.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThen you revealed this mailer is from 2014.
Of all the mailers he has gotten, and must still be getting, why did he post a photo of one from March 2014 ?
Quote: coachbellyOf all the mailers he has gotten, and must still be getting, why did he post a photo of one from March 2014 ?
Because it exposes an old play that won't endanger my current locations
And I already showed that mailer in my NY AP move thread so nobody can say I am exposing something not already seen
Quote: AlanMendelson
I've asked you to comment how quickly these free play offers drop off when your "employees" are only playing the free play.
1-2 months
Quote: AlanMendelsonI never said that. My participation in your discussion was that offers do drop off from lack of play. I used to get thousands of dollars of free play from Rincon each month but when my play dropped the free play offers dropped.
I've asked you to comment how quickly these free play offers drop off when your "employees" are only playing the free play. You never responded. I doubt you get perpetual free play. Then you revealed this mailer is from 2014.
I have responded several times. I don't understand why you ignore the answers.
You did the same thing with KJ and his two table Baccarat claims
Sabre has given you the correct answer above BTW
Quote: DRichI have worked on player tracking systems that reward based on play in the last 3 months. Due to Covid there was probably almost no play for the past 3 months so I could see a mailer dropping from $300 to $15.
Before presenting my thoughts, I should acknowledge a couple of limitations on my qualifications to address this matter: (1) I have never worked for a casino at all, and (2) I am such a low roller that the offers I receive from these places myself are not at all like $300, more like nickels and dimes.
However, I consider two factors that I think I have correct:
(1) casinos have long used advertising and "offers" to lure players into their establishments, with the levels of the offers likely to be based on historical levels of play.
(2) Many casinos are experiencing a dramatic shortage of customers, due primarily to the Covid pandemic.
Now if the casino managers want to respond to this shortage and get players back in the house, why would they abandon their long-established methods? "Covid has cost us players, so we need to cut back on promotions." Does that make sense to anybody? Why don't they just stop advertising at all?
No, I think any cutbacks must mean either that they don't really want more customers now (unlikely) or that they view these offers as a bit of a reward for past levels of play, and (as DRich said) they haven't been getting those same levels of play from the affected players. If you are still viewed as being as valuable as in the past, I expect the efforts to get you back in house will be at least as strong as before.
Quote: darkozBecause it exposes an old play that won't endanger my current locations
Why do you even still have that mailer?
Didn't you just hint at your current locations?
Which EC casinos were open on July 4?
Quote: coachbellyWhy do you even still have that mailer?
Didn't you just hint at your current locations?
Which EC casinos were open on July 4?
All of them except Borgata.
I'm also in more than one state currently.
As to having that mailer it was upoaded to my Imgur account a long time ago.
See, simple answers!
Quote: sabre1-2 months
Exactly.
So to continue this youd have to have a never ending pool of big gamblers who amazingly would play big and then give up their cards and free play. Really?
How many big gamblers would simply turn over their cards like that?
Quote: AlanMendelsonExactly.
So to continue this youd have to have a never ending pool of big gamblers who amazingly would play big and then give up their cards and free play. Really?
How many big gamblers would simply turn over their cards like that?
Not how that works.
Quote: darkozAll of them except Borgata.
When did you get the mailers for the July 2 opening?
Quote: darkozAs to having that mailer it was upoaded to my Imgur account a long time ago.
Was that the only mailer on your Imgur account?
Quote: Mission146Not how that works.
Mission
Now he is going to ask how it works and accuse us of lying when we refuse to explain or present evidence
Quote: darkozNow he is going to ask how it works and accuse us of lying when we refuse to explain or present evidence
That would be a legitimate conclusion for him to make.
Why bring this stuff to the public's attention if not willing to explain it?
Quote: coachbellyThat would be a legitimate conclusion for him to make.
Why bring this stuff to the public's attention if not willing to explain it?
Are you aware that Coca Cola has a secret formula?
Do you conclude the formula does not exist without Coke actually handing out the formula?
Quote: darkozAre you aware that Coca Cola has a secret formula?
Do you conclude the formula does not exist without Coke actually handing out the formula?
Do you think a lab couldn't break down Coke's secret formula? Do you think the FDA doesn't know exactly what's in Coke?
The problem is all of us have experience with casinos and players clubs.
Telling me it's a secret doesn't work.
Casinos just dont offer $5000 of free play to new sign ups from a nearby homeless shelter.
Quote: darkozAre you aware that Coca Cola has a secret formula?
Alan is correct, we know the formula exists because we can purchase Coca Cola's formula by the can or bottle.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDo you think a lab couldn't break down Coke's secret formula? Do you think the FDA doesn't know exactly what's in Coke?
The problem is all of us have experience with casinos and players clubs.
Telling me it's a secret doesn't work.
Well apparently I know and Mission and a few others on here know a secret you don't.
I'm sorry but that is true whether you believe it or not
Quote: darkozMission
Now he is going to ask how it works and accuse us of lying when we refuse to explain or present evidence
You have a tremendous financial interest in the subject matter, as do others we know...certainly more than I do...and I don't even think we should be having this conversation at all. I'm probably going to go ahead and bow out of this line of discourse.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Casinos just dont offer $5000 of free play to new sign ups from a nearby homeless shelter.
That much is correct. I don't think Darkoz would disagree with that, either.
Quote: coachbellyAlan is correct, we know the formula exists because we can purchase Coca Cola's formula by the can or bottle.
Knowing the ingredients is NOT knowing the formula.
Or I guess the FBI wasted their time arresting the person who tried to steal Coke's formula
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2006/jul/07/marketingandpr.drink
Quote: Mission146I don't even think we should be having this conversation at all.
Why is that?
Why was it brought to the public's attention in the first place ?
Quote: darkozKnowing the ingredients is NOT knowing the formula.
The first line of the story says she tried to sell a phial of the new product...in other words a vial of liquid.
Do you suppose the ingredients were listed on the label? Or perhaps the formula itself was written on the bag?
The documents included were said to be trade secrets of some sort, but likely did not contain any recipe information that the chemists could not attain by analyzing the sample of the product itself.
Pepsi can produce a product so similar to Coke that you could not tell the difference.
They likely prefer to sell Pepsi because they believe that their cola recipe is superior, not because they don't have the formula.
Quote: darkozWell apparently I know and Mission and a few others on here know a secret you don't.
I'm sorry but that is true whether you believe it or not
How stupid of me. I can't know because I'm not a ring wearing member of the AP club.
So... you all profit $20,000 a week.
Why did I go to college?
Quote: coachbellyWhy is that?
Why was it brought to the public's attention in the first place ?
There's no point in having the conversation because even if Darkoz (or, less likely, myself) were to spell it out-nobody would believe us. Or, perhaps some people (nobody specifically---please note) would just pretend not to believe us. It would be information getting out there that benefits nobody active in this conversation.
Secondly, if you accept the underlying claim (not necessarily the specific numbers) as generally true, then it shouldn't be too hard a concept to figure out on your own if you really think about it.
As far as bringing it to the public's attention, I'm afraid I didn't notice who first did that in this thread. I don't necessarily read every post of every thread.
Quote: AlanMendelsonHow stupid of me. I can't know because I'm not a ring wearing member of the AP club.
So... you all profit $20,000 a week.
Why did I go to college?
I currently profit $0/week doing what Darkoz is referring to as I am not presently active in that regard.
Furthermore, I have never profited $20,000 a week doing what Darkoz is referring to and have never made a claim to the contrary.
Quote: Mission146There's no point in having the conversation because even if Darkoz (or, less likely, myself) were to spell it out-nobody would believe us.
How is that different than where this matter currently stands?
Quote: Mission146it shouldn't be too hard a concept to figure out on your own if you really think about it.
I agree, but we haven't heard the explanation yet to compare concepts.
