The new WoV
Quote: mcallister3200Quote: darkozOmfG.
I got 10 Players staying at home while I go collect this from each and every one.
Then in two months I move onto the next 10.
I'm not going to explain to you how to get those offers. But I have posted one method (the one for the calendar above). Look for my NY AP move thread
Complete waste of time and energy to play “Alan games. “Save yourself. It’s not possible to come up with a satisfactory answer, he will keep changing the question.
If the AP Club members want to believe this claim go ahead.
Honor the AP Club secret society. Where your club rings proudly.
Quote: MDawgNot so much how long, but how much. How much must be input and lost at these silly machines that have terrible odds just to get the free play. Slot machines have the worst odds in the house, well, short of Keno.
Depends.
In some cases for as little as $100.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/34147-ny-ap-move-explained/
Quote: MDawgNot so much how long, but how much. How much must be input and lost at these silly machines that have terrible odds just to get the free play. Slot machines have the worst odds in the house, well, short of Keno.
Even video poker games with 99% return can generate these offers. But you're correct, thousands of dollars of coin in per day are required to get $200 of free play per day.
I doubt his employees are kicking in their own money to keep these offers coming month after month.
And if he tells us he's redeeming these offers over a period of months I will question that as well. These offers are date specific. He can't tell us he's redeeming 10% this month and another 10% the following month.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Unless you have a "perpetual motion machine" for generating free play.
They're called people. If you put an iota of thought into this you could figure it out. But again, you're a person who decides that they're right, everyone else is wrong, and zero evidence will ever change your mind.
Quote: AlanMendelson
If the AP Club members want to believe this claim go ahead.
Honor the AP Club secret society. Where your club rings proudly.
Again, you can't figure it out, therefore it must be impossible.
Even your video poker AP guru AxelWolf disputes DarkOz's $20K a week claim.
As Woody Allen would say, Where's gas? Where's tolls? $20K a week in his pocket after all expenses? including coin in, the costs associated with this massive crew, the cut of this massive crew, and so on?
I'd love to see the how and why of it, but all we keep getting are a few sideline cheers from people who are clearly not bringing in $20K a week themselves. And again, we are talking about an alleged twenty thousand dollars net of all expenses weekly in DarkOz's pocket. If they can't do it, how come DarkOz can?
dark.... I am recommending that you no longer respond to the doubters.... what good does it do you? The three of you are just going on and on and on and on and on and on........ with essentially nothing new being said...... Just block this thread for your own benefit...
Quote: MDawgDarkOz isn't just saying that he is getting free play, or that his crew is getting free play, he is saying that "I make $20,000 a week" doing this.
Even your video poker AP guru AxelWolf disputes DarkOz's $20K a week claim.
As Woody Allen would say, Where's gas? Where's tolls? $20K a week in his pocket after all expenses? including coin in, the costs associated with this massive crew, the cut of this massive crew, and so on?
I'd love to see the how and why of it, but all we keep getting are a few sideline cheers from people who are clearly not bringing in $20K a week themselves. And again, we are talking about an alleged twenty thousand dollars net of all expenses weekly in DarkOz's pocket. If they can't do it, how come DarkOz can?
Why are you so desperate to understand it?
If I was able to make six figures a trip like you do I would not care to understand how a lowly five figure AP makes his money
Quote: MDawgIf they can't do it, how come DarkOz can?
Because it requires a lot of bodies, being in the right location, a ton of organization, a lot of information, and a willingness to risk being handcuffed.
Quote: darkozin two months I move onto the next 10.
Did you still have the mailers from March?
It looks like some of the offers overlap. For instance 3/11 was a Wednesday, was the offer $450 total for that day?
When did the casino close due to COVID?
You wrote earlier that you are back in action...any current mailers to display/discuss ?
Quote: sabreBecause it requires a lot of bodies, being in the right location, a ton of organization, a lot of information, and a willingness to risk being handcuffed.
Everything you said is correct except the handcuffs
I don't do anything illegal.
I have been caught a few times. No arrest, no handcuffs
Quote: coachbellyDid you still have the mailers from March?
It looks like some of the offers overlap. For instance 3/11 was a Wednesday, was the offer $450 total for that day?
When did the casino close due to COVID?
You wrote earlier that you are back in action...any current mailers to display/discuss ?
That mailer was from 2014.
Where I currently am in action I will not discuss
Quote: darkozThat mailer was from 2014.
Where I currently am in action I will not discuss
Is that a typo? 2014 ?
One thing I learned in Vegas is that many APs think way outside of the box. I thought I had a nice little play going at a local casino but Max Pen showed me how I was barely taking a third of what I could be with just a small adjustment. RS and another AP showed me how to make a play that I thought was marginal into something outanding and Axel is in a class all his own. He could look at a clock and figure out how to exploit the thing.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIs that a typo? 2014 ?
No it's not a typo.
Why?
Quote: billryanHow is it possible that someone who excels in creative writing doesn't have the imagination to work this scheme out in his head.
How do these discussions devolve from a discussion about the mechanics of the exercise to a personal attack on the questioner?
What's the point of going in that direction?
Quote: darkozThat mailer was from 2014.
OK then how about the Mondays and Fridays, did you get the individual offers by date, plus the every Monday & Friday offer?
Did you keep the mailer from 2014?
Quote: coachbellyOK then how about the Mondays and Fridays, did you get the individual offers by date, plus the every Monday & Friday offer?
Did you keep the mailer from 2014?
It's a pretty self explanatory calendar.
If freeplay was available I took it.
I believe I still have that mailer buried somewhere. In the beginning I kept all of them but then I just didn't see the point.
Quote: darkozNo it's not a typo.
Why?
Because with Covid ALL of the Vegas casinos have reduced offers.
Strategies of the past won't work now.
Quote: AlanMendelsonBecause with Covid ALL of the Vegas casinos have reduced offers.
Strategies of the past won't work now.
I can't speak for Vegas.
I'm on the East Coast
Quote: darkozIt's a pretty self explanatory calendar.
Maybe you misunderstood my question...
On Mondays 3/3, 3/10, 3/17, 3/24, 3/31 did you get the $200 or $225 listed for those dates,
plus the $90+ every Monday offer?
Quote: coachbellyMaybe you misunderstood my question...
On Mondays 3/3, 3/10, 3/17, 3/24, 3/31 did you get the $200 or $225 listed for those dates,
plus the $90+ every Monday offer?
Yes you had a choice of Monday or Tuesday for $200. But I would go on Monday for the $90 bonus so I would have $290 on Mondays.
Friday also had an extra bonus.
Their offers are drastically different now though. It's been six years
Quote: AlanMendelsonBecause with Covid ALL of the Vegas casinos have reduced offers.
Strategies of the past won't work now.
So what? You adapt or you wither. Plays don't last forever. If you aren't looking for the next play while exploiting the current one, you'll end up "proving" these things aren't sustainable.
Have you read Comp City by Max Rubin? I doubt any of those plays would work today, but reading it is invaluable because it makes you think about the plays and how you can adapt them to today's circumstances.
Quote: SOOPOOAllan, MD.... darkoz has detailed exactly how he generated the massive free play in a previous thread.
Soopoo, he explained that the play outlined in that thread was long dead and something he did five years ago. I believe that even the images of "free play" he is posting in this thread today, date from his five year old play.
Quote: darkoz
I am quite certain it is dead although I have not gone back to it in 5 years.
We are talking about his present claim of "I make $20,000. a week."
Quote: billryanYou adapt or you wither.
He has a point. I am using the fact that they really need players with large bankrolls right now, to maximize everything I have coming right now in booking future trips.
Quote: MDawgSoopoo, he explained that the play outlined in that thread was long dead and something he did five years ago.
We are talking about his present claim of "I make $20,000. a week."
You can't understand that there is more than one play in the world?
That calendar was from about ten plays ago (if such thing as plays can denote time)
That's generally because the math and logic easily adds up and and their claims makes sense.Quote: AlanMendelsonBeing realistic, is we missed to pick up th oh does that happen on thoseere any online forum where APs have been pressured for proving their claims?
If someone claims they were making $2,000 an hour playing multiple machines on Lower spin amounts during a slot promotion for 8 hours where they had a 12% advantage and they ended up making 18,000 without any big jackpots, that makes sense(especially when there's proof the promotion happened and multiple people played it all the similar stories). When someone makes similar claims but they had a 12% disadvantage, that doesn't make any sense even if it's theoretically possible.
Whatever the case, I've called out and questioned AP's for making outrageous statements as well, it's not that often because I'm not seeing as many outrageous statements coming from Advantage Players, obviously it's not zero.
I called you out for claiming your son hit 5 single line normal Royals in one day and still lost. You fought and argued with me over and over about it and it became pretty heated you were dead certain it happened. If I recall correctly, the subject came up multiple times over the course of a few years. I know I caught some flak over it. You were even willing to make a bet(or whatever you want to call it) that he could prove it. As it turns out, he himself verified he only hit two or three actual single line Royals in one day.
I'm sure there are people thinking it's not that outrageous of a claim, perhaps not, however and that's particular case I was dead certain it didn't happen and if I thought for sure there was a way to absolutely prove it either way, I would have been willing to put up a significant amount climbing it didn't happen.
Some things just don't pass the smell test, and some things do.
Aside from the KJ two table thing, what AP claims are you referring to?
He's denied getting any sizable rebates and whatnot.Quote: redietzI can see someone with MDawg's brains, money, and panache swinging a rebate trick or show-up money parallel places that almost guarantees a win. But someone doing that is going to come up with a cover story and stick to it. He's not gonna admit to rebates and show-up guarantees.
Assuming MDawg is the player at the level he says, his hosts and such could potentially ID him from the posts. So you'd work to protect that.
It would also be a simple matter to play at six different places each trip and report the three best results after the fact.
On occasion, I have (being a bad man) heard of guys headed for oncoming divorces do the opposite. Play six places for a year and publicly report the three worst after the fact, as a tool to help stash funds on the side.
Quote: MDawgSoopoo was saying that "he told us how he does it." No, that thread is telling us how he does NOT do it.
That thread is not how I do it currently.
But it shows I am capable of doing said style of play.
That was the whole point.
How I do it now and where is not to be discussed.
1) other AP's may have similar plays (I have been lambasted over that before)
2) It's not something I need other AP's learning about and ruining. Trust me, if they knew the particulars of my play they would all attack it in some fashion
But past couple years I haven't had any trip losers so I haven't needed rebates. And I'm not playing average 3000 either. I mean there are sessions where I'll be even higher than that average but not typically these days.
I was just much more into it back then. I'm more of a dabbler these days comparatively speaking.
These days I just want to win some money and have an occasion to wear a nice watch. Seriously, that's about the animus when it comes right down to it.
Quote: MDawgthat's about the animus when it comes right down to it.
Yep....hostility.
I'm a neutral observer, and I recognized it right from the start.
Quote: MDawgActually I meant it as in that's my motivation animus in going to Vegas these days
I thought you meant the hostility from some of the members here.
You don't need to be hostile to win money. Just be matter-of-fact about it.
Quote: darkozEverything you said is correct except the handcuffs
I don't do anything illegal.
I have been caught a few times. No arrest, no handcuffs
You don't have to do something illegal to have handcuffs put on you. Granted that may lead to a more significant payout than the play itself is worth, but I still think it's a risk, especially in new markets.
I understand he went to court and eventually beat the rap.
Quote: MDawgDarkOz wrote about getting a misdemeanor citation. That's an arrest - don't have to be handcuffed to get arrested.
I understand he went to court and eventually beat the rap.
I can talk now about that since it's over.
The casino accused me of trespassing.
I never was trespassed at that location.
They claimed they trespassed me in absentia. They trespassed me because they got some (libelous) documents from another casino which was not related to them business-wise (I got to see them as they became discovery).
The libelous documents claimed or at least heavily suggested I was wanted by the law.
The day of the trial the District Attorney dropped the charges as the casino could not produce anything that supported their position of trespassing (or even that I was a wanted man)
But I have never had any charges or arrest for using other players cards
Once it gets to that point and a trespass has been "served" (the trespasser has been notified), even then if the trespasser shows up again and just walks away quickly when confronted they usually won't arrest. The trespasser really has to be someone they want out of there or who is blatantly and repeatedly ignoring the trespass warnings before they'll go all the way to an arrest.
Quote: MDawgWell trespass is the catch-all casinos use to proscribe any behavior they would rather not have going on by removing the actor himself from the equation. It usually doesn't get to that point though unless there are multiple back offs that have been ignored.
Once it gets to that point and a trespass has been "served" (the trespasser has been notified), even then if the trespasser shows up again and just walks away quickly when confronted they usually won't arrest. The trespasser really has to be someone they want out of there or who is blatantly and repeatedly ignoring the trespass warnings before they'll go all the way to an arrest.
Agreed.
Which is why I feel they overstepped.
BTW, that's when I started saying I was the most feared AP on the East Coast.
I was privy to over twenty pages of discovery documents with some of the most outrageous claims. (suspect was observed placing money in machine and then switched to several other machines in some unknown scam).
I really had to laugh at that one. Switching slot machines isn't any play. That's just me being bored lol.
But they fear me so much that if they observed me tying my shoe laces in front of s slot they would be suspicious
Quote: AxelWolf
I called you out for claiming your son hit 5 single line normal Royals in one day and still lost. You fought and argued with me over and over about it and it became pretty heated you were dead certain it happened. If I recall correctly, the subject came up multiple times over the course of a few years. I know I caught some flak over it. You were even willing to make a bet(or whatever you want to call it) that he could prove it. As it turns out, he himself verified he only hit two or three actual single line Royals in one day.
I never said this on the other forum but now I'll say it here: I covered for my son. He lied to me. He told me he had five single line royals in 24 hours. In truth he had two at $4,000 each plus two other $4000 pays that were not royals plus a fifth pay of near $4k. He exaggerated to me and I believed him.
It wasn't his only exaggeration when he was distressed from the collapse of his business. He gave me plenty of grief but I didnt throw him under the bus. Fathers dont do that. They take the grief for their kids.
I dont care about AP plays that are history.
Funny that you use that phrase "they fear me" - I used to say that half-jokingly to my friends and to the pit bosses during trips from the old days when I would be up a hundred, or two hundred thousand, after winning consistently for days. That's when higher ups I had never seen before would come out of the woodwork to stand by the tables and watch me.
It's actually a good feeling to get to the point where you think they fear you - as long as they don't take the next step and give you the boot. But when it comes to baccarat they never have taken the next step. When it comes to blackjack though, my experience has not been that they give you a chance to savor any sort of fear for you - by the time you see anyone watching you closely at blackjack, it's too late - they're about to have a little chat with you. Only happened to me once, that little chat, but it kept me from blackjack for a solid two years.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Also... casinos are NOT required to file a CTR if they know you and you have an established history and records that can be presented.
If you have a credit line there is probably no CTRs filed. Then the casino has plenty of records.
Alan, that is 100% wrong. They don't have to ask the player for their information if they know it, but a CTR is still required.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf darkoz doesn't post current info that is relevant to current conditions the discussion is moot.
You honestly think casinos don't send out mailers anymore?
Quote: sabreYou honestly think casinos don't send out mailers anymore?
If you're getting mailers now that are like those that were pre Covid lucky you.
Mine are about 10% of pre Covid levels.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf you're getting mailers now that are like those that were pre Covid lucky you.
Mine are about 10% of pre Covid levels.
Well then I would suggest you start using someone else's Players card, lol
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf darkoz doesn't post current info that is relevant to current conditions the discussion is moot.
I dont care about AP plays that are history.
See what I mean about “Alan games” and constantly moving goalposts. Now if you prove that he will probably ask you to sit at the center seat of a blackjack table and generate freeplay or something.
Quote: mcallister3200See what I mean about “Alan games” and constantly moving goalposts. Now if you prove that he will probably ask you to sit at the center seat of a blackjack table and generate freeplay or something.
Why the personal attack and insult? This is your second in this thread.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf you're getting mailers now that are like those that were pre Covid lucky you.
Mine are about 10% of pre Covid levels.
Again, you think your observations are the lone truth and anyone who observers something different is lying.
Have you once stopped to consider that your experience is "unlucky" and everyone else's is the status quo?
Quote: sabreAgain, you think your observations are the lone truth and anyone who observers something different is lying.
Have you once stopped to consider that your experience is "unlucky" and everyone else's is the status quo?
You're ridiculous. What I wrote was clearly my experience. I even wrote:
"If you're getting mailers now that are like those that were pre Covid lucky you.
Mine are about 10% of pre Covid levels."
I know what's going on here. You just want to throw barbs at me. Well, go at it if that's what you want to do.
For the record, pre Covid I was getting free play of $300 per visit at Caesars. Now it's $15.
At Red Rock I was getting about $375:per week, now it's $80.
At Suncoast I was getting $120 per week, now it's $40.
