Poll

23 votes (33.33%)
4 votes (5.79%)
2 votes (2.89%)
22 votes (31.88%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (2.89%)
11 votes (15.94%)
No votes (0%)
5 votes (7.24%)

69 members have voted

Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 21st, 2010 at 1:58:15 AM permalink
We gotta have a good library of Gaming-related movies.....
just ain't right otherwise.

Am I missing any movie from this list?
What gambling-related movie is key to the collection in your opinion?

(Note 1: Ocean's 37 is when they hit the Fiesta Henderson)
(Note 2: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Gerbils is when Harry and his crew hit Caesars...
"Ala-kazam, Ala-ka-zo,
Let me throw,
A freakin' Yo...)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
WASHOO2
WASHOO2
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November 21st, 2010 at 3:19:25 AM permalink
My favorite movie about gambling: DR. MABUSE, THE GAMBLER. A classic.
Martin
Martin
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November 21st, 2010 at 3:23:20 AM permalink
I think even I would pay to see "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Gerbils"

The age of the folks here is showing. You left out the absolutely best of all - "The Cincinnati Kid" from 1965 - starring Steve McQueen, Edward G. Robinson, Ann-Margaret, Rip Torn, and a cameo by Tuesday Weld. One of the most realistic gambling movies I've ever seen - had to be written by a real rounder.

This is an absolute must see (Amazon has DVD from $6.66).
Nareed
Nareed
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November 21st, 2010 at 6:11:53 AM permalink
I don't think I've seen any.

But my favorite gambling scene is in Casablanca, when Claude Rains shuts down Rick's saying "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!" And then a dealer comes up to him and says "Your winnings, sir."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
AZDuffman
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November 21st, 2010 at 6:27:30 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

We gotta have a good library of Gaming-related movies.....
just ain't right otherwise.

Am I missing any movie from this list?
What gambling-related movie is key to the collection in your opinion?



Not a bad idea, maybe Wiz would consider a section where a movie could be nominated and reviews could be written, "Wizards Gambling Movie and Book Database?"

Anyways, "Casino" is my favorite movie of all time, PERIOD. I woulod add "The Color of Money" to your list. My nomination of 10 to inclue in the library:


1. Casino
2. Rounders
3. Oceans 11 (Clooney)
4. The Color of Money
5. Oceans 13
6. Oceans 11 (Sinatra)
7. Boiler Room

Stretching-the-concept-to-get-10 list......

8. Diamonds are Forever (set in Vegas)
9. Wall Street (gambling on the market)
10. Oceans 20 (the crew hits Terry Benedict in Macau after he moves his HQ there to escape punishing USA Corporate Tax Rates)
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
docsjs
docsjs
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Thanks for this post from:
bigboy
November 21st, 2010 at 7:16:10 AM permalink
Missing from this list is:

Hard Eight

The Cooler
Mosca
Mosca
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November 21st, 2010 at 7:53:45 AM permalink
I just watched Casino again last week; an awesome film. The more I watch it, the more impressed I am. It's the total package: a compelling story, well acted (even by Sharon Stone), with amazing cinematography. This last time, I watched it just to watch the camera work and the colors. From the initial explosion to the end with DeNiro/Rothstein handicapping sports, this film is technically flawless. (well, it isScorcese.)

That being said, there are other gambling films worth watching.

The Grifters (great film, I had to take a shower after watching it though)
Diggstown
The Sting
Tombstone (a western but with lots of gambling subtext)
NO KILL I
toastcmu
toastcmu
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Thanks for this post from:
BillionDollar
November 21st, 2010 at 7:59:11 AM permalink
Hey, everyone's forgot "Vegas Vacation". Cousin Eddie loves the buffet!

-B
Headlock
Headlock
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November 21st, 2010 at 8:11:20 AM permalink
I would vote for "The Color of Money". That movie particularly appeals to me because in my misspent youth I played pool for money.

I love "Kingpin", a comical knock-off of "The Color of Money".

"Austin Powers" has a brief gambling scene where Austin is playing blackjack and stays on 5. "I also like to live dangerously"
FatGeezus
FatGeezus
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:18:31 AM permalink
"Let It Ride" is a classic.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097731/
ElectricDreams
ElectricDreams
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:39:23 AM permalink
My favorite gambling movie is probably 21.

...nah, just kidding ;-)
benbakdoff
benbakdoff
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:39:59 AM permalink
I like Wise Guys. My wife and I watched parts of it being filmed at Resorts in Atlantic City in 1985 or 86. They were apparently hurting for extras as we were both asked several times. We declined. Most of the cast was from New York or Jersey including Danny De Vito and Joe Piscopo , who we had the pleasure of meeting.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:49:39 AM permalink
Quote: docsjs

Missing from this list is:

Hard Eight

The Cooler



Yess! Yess, Dammit! These two I gotta buy!!
I have assembled a HUGE gaming library (which my wife dispersed and interlaced with her romance novels in Thai), and now I gotta build up the videos. (Will I buy a safe?) Oh, how did I forget these two!
Hard Eight: Philip Baker Hall, John C. Reilly, Samuel "L" Jackson (make sure you say it!), Philip Seymore Hoffman, and Gwenyth Paltrow.
The Cooler: Alex Baldwin and William Macy were spot-on!
But 21 was contrived, me thinks.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
goatcabin
goatcabin
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November 21st, 2010 at 12:06:08 PM permalink
How about "The Big Town", 1987, with Matt Dillon, Diane Lane, Tommy Lee Jones, Bruce Dern, Tom Skerritt and Lee Grant. It's all about craps in Chicago, and "Cully the Arm", played by Dillon. The craps-playing scenes are not very realistic, as Cully keeps parlaying and winning, but the most amazing thing is the scene where Cully takes his letter of introduction from his partner in the boonies to Lee Grant in Chicago. She asks him how many comeout rolls it takes to work out all the probabilities, and he describes the "perfect 1980". I can't remember for sure, but that may be where I got those figures. I wonder who the technical director was?
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 21st, 2010 at 12:11:52 PM permalink
Quote: Martin

I think even I would pay to see "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Gerbils"

The age of the folks here is showing. You left out the absolutely best of all - "The Cincinnati Kid" from 1965 - starring Steve McQueen, Edward G. Robinson, Ann-Margaret, Rip Torn, and a cameo by Tuesday Weld. One of the most realistic gambling movies I've ever seen - had to be written by a real rounder.

This is an absolute must see (Amazon has DVD from $6.66).



I enjoyed the movie, but the final scene would make any real poker player throw up. The KId AND his nemesis (Yancey? Lancey?) play the hand like morons, and the final outcome is something like 675,423,009,125 to 1 against.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 21st, 2010 at 12:12:47 PM permalink
Quote: ElectricDreams

My favorite gambling movie is probably 21.

...nah, just kidding ;-)



You would enjoy it more if you realized that the title referred to the IQ of the scriptwriter.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
BigRoss71
BigRoss71
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November 21st, 2010 at 12:22:12 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

We gotta have a good library of Gaming-related movies.....
just ain't right otherwise.

Am I missing any movie from this list?
What gambling-related movie is key to the collection in your opinion?

(Note 1: Ocean's 37 is when they hit the Fiesta Henderson)
(Note 2: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Gerbils is when Harry and his crew hit Caesars...
"Ala-kazam, Ala-ka-zo,
Let me throw,
A freakin' Yo...)




My favorite is casino, easily. But i certainly enjoy many other gambling and vegas related movies. I actually laughed out loud when i saw the line about ocean's 37. You're missing out if you haven't seen ocean's 45, when they concoct a mega heist of the western.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 21st, 2010 at 12:29:11 PM permalink
"Rounders" suffered from several moments of total non-realism, not just in the gambling scenes, but in the actions and purported motivations of the characters. Mike's actions, in particular, often make no logical sense at all. It offered audiences that had no contact with the gambling world a look at "the seedy side of the poker and gambling world", but at the cost of authenticity.

As far as the poker scene goes, the most faithful depiction I've ever seen is in "California Split", where Elliot Gould trades fishy looks with all the crusty little old poker-playing ladies in Gardena. Some moments in that movie are priceless, such as when Elliot Gould gets held up in the parking lot yet again, and in disgust, takes out his money, counts it, and offers the gunman half of it.

I really really really hated the movie "Casino", because the wrong person got buried alive at the end; it should have been Ginger, Sharon Stone's character. Nicky (Joe Pesci) just does what he does, and he should have gotten a more merciful mob-style end--maybe a Bugsyesque hit or something. I couldn't see how Ace could be such a smart man and so stupid about women, even if the woman in question DID look as good as Sharon Stone. As a gambling movie, "Casino" doesn't deliver much--it just shows all the housewives in Paducah that yeah, just like they thought, Vegas is a corrupt, evil, and sinful place.

"The Sting" works on several levels, but it's more about cheating than gambling--to Gondorf, gamblers are "marks", which is the general tone and attitude of the movie. It IS very well acted and directed, and is a great "period piece" as well. Definitely the most enjoyable movie on the list.

IMHO, no decent gambling movie has yet been made. I think that's primarily because it's hard to construct a compelling story arc around the activities of either an individual gambler OR a casino. Scriptwriters have felt compelled to construct outrageous outcomes to "hook" their audiences, when the reality of casino gambling is that Clem and Wilma drive up from L.A., stay at Circus Circus, eat at the buffet, play quarter slots and $5 blackjack, lose $293, and drive back to L.A. Not exactly great theater.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Doc
Doc
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November 21st, 2010 at 2:13:30 PM permalink
"A Big Hand for the Little Lady" 1966

Henry Fonda, Joanne Woodward, Jason Robards, Bergis Meredith, et. al.

The big-money poker game has some tough table rules, and the gambling and bluffing go well beyond the table. It is drama and comedy combined. The first time I saw it, I thought we had reached the end of the story about three times. If you thought "The Sting" had some surprise twists, try this one on for size.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 21st, 2010 at 2:32:50 PM permalink
Some other suggestions

A Big Hand for the Little Lady (1966) Comedy about a poker game in the old West. Henry Fonda, the stranger in town, is tempted to a high stakes poker game with wealthy cattlemen, after promising his wife he would give up gambling. Starring: Henry Fonda, Joanne Woodward.

Casino Royale (1967) In a campy spoof of the James Bond films, the now aging secret agent is called to save his agency from infiltration with the help of many new
agents and the threat of a chorus of suspected villians. Peter Sellers, David Niven.

The Sting (1973) Two clever con artists arrange an elaborate sting against a powerful crime lord who murdered their friend. Plot twists galore! Brilliant script, excellent story development, captivating performances by the leads and Scott Joplin's music score is legendary. If you haven't seen this, regardless of your age, this will become one of your favorite movies (pick up Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid at the same time and make it a Newman/Redford doubleheader). Robert Redford, Paul Newman.

California Split (1974)Though dated, this is one of the only movies to attempt to show the day-to-day life of card-playing, sport-betting, dusk-till-dawn gamblers. Marred only by a poor ending and muddled sound, the film was directed by Robert Altman (in between M*A*S*H and Nashville). The cast of multi-layered characters, a pre-cursor to Altman's 'Short Cuts' and 'The Player' includes an appearance by poker legend Amarillo Slim.

The Gambler (1974) About a college professor's compulsion to gamble. Starring: James Caan, Paul Sorvino, James Woods, M. Emmet Walsh, Lauren Hutton. Travelling similar spiral marked 'downward' to Harvey Keiel's lieutenant, Freed seems unflappable in the face of his mounting bookie debts, even after he accompanies a loan shark's thug on a violent collection mission, breaks the hearts of his wealthy mother and grandfather and gambles away the cash his mother lends him to pay off a$44,000 debt. Why? Because, as Axel explains in a class lecture on Dostoyevsky that parallels his own hunger for risky behaviour, he needs to be constantly on the verge of self-destruction to stay alive.

Eight Men Out (1988) This historically accurate (as far as I can tell from my readings) ensemble brings the 1919 "Black Sox" scandal to the screen. The Chicago White Sox throwing the World Series still ranks as the biggest sports betting scandal in history. This movie does a good job of re-creating the environment of gambling in the early 1900's...

Rounders (1998) I have my issues with this show, but despite its shortfalls, I believe this does deliver a reasonable representation of the underground poker world in the big city. John Malkovich's portrayal of "KGB" alone makes this movie worth the commitment.

Let It Ride (1989) Truthfully, I'm not a huge fan of this movie, but enough of my friends seem to like it that I made a spot for it on the list. There are some humorous moments and if you've spent any amount of time at the track, no doubt you've bumped into these characters (hey, you might be one of these characters). I did like the line when Looney says, "maybe I'll put 50 bucks down on the Packers and hopefully not lose too bad." (or something close to that). If there's nothing else to grab, pick this up, you'll get a chuckle.

Bugsy (1991) Story about former mob boss Bugsy Siegel, whose love for Virginia Hill motivated him to create the Flamingo Hotel and later, the gambling mecca of Las Vegas. Warren Beatty, Annette Bening.

Honeymoon in Vegas (1992) Bridegroom (Nicolas Cage) agrees to marry Sarah Jessica Parker but he loses her in a crooked poker game to a professional gambler (James Caan). Set in Vegas.

Croupier (1998) In this British film, Owen leads a double life, working in a casino and writing a book about the lifestyle and gets tangled up with three women. A stylish, riveting crime story, loaded with characters and plot twists to scramble your brain. Stars Clive Owen.

Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels (1998) Guy Ritchie takes a lesson from Quentin Tarantino in this look at the underbelly of London's crime scene. While small in terms of screen time, the gambling angle pushes the plot forward, playing a significant role. Long before Ritchie was sexually contracting fame from a pop megastar wife, he was busy making this gem of a film debut. He may be a secret public school Mockney but he niftily evokes a seedy London underworld of spivs, conmen and thugs. Borrowing not a little heavily from Tarantino in style, the film remains English with some lovely photography courtesy of Tim Maurice-Jones and a top Britpop soundtrack. A very entertaining movie.

The Good Thief (2002) An American gambler and thief played by Nick Nolte who plans to rob a casino in France in one final heist of his career. He runs out of luck, the robbery is botched but he begins to win at cards. Starring Nolte and Ralph Fiennes.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2010 at 3:49:29 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I just watched Casino again last week; an awesome film.



I don't like Casino, its just a bad remake of 'Goodfellas' with the same director and cast. Its even has a narrator, just like 'Goodfellas'. And I can't stand Sharon Stone in anything, she can't act. Can anybody find a sliver of difference between Joe Pechi's character in either movie? Its the same person.
It does not suck to be me.
DJTeddyBear
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November 21st, 2010 at 4:13:24 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

"A Big Hand for the Little Lady" 1966

Henry Fonda, Joanne Woodward, Jason Robards, Bergis Meredith, et. al.

The big-money poker game has some tough table rules, and the gambling and bluffing go well beyond the table. It is drama and comedy combined. The first time I saw it, I thought we had reached the end of the story about three times. If you thought "The Sting" had some surprise twists, try this one on for size.

Ding, dong, ding!

I was gonna suggest this!
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mosca
Mosca
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November 21st, 2010 at 5:50:57 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I don't like Casino, its just a bad remake of 'Goodfellas' with the same director and cast. Its even has a narrator, just like 'Goodfellas'. And I can't stand Sharon Stone in anything, she can't act. Can anybody find a sliver of difference between Joe Pechi's character in either movie? Its the same person.



I can see that. I think it's the only Sharon Stone role that is any good, otherwise I just don't get her. Pesci is the same in everything! I think he fits really well in Casino AND Goodfellas; the definition of a character actor, I suppose. I like both films. He and DeNiro are like "Scorcese tools"; they turn up in a lot of his stuff.

I would think that the more one knows about Vegas, the less one would like Casino; do you think that holds true in your case? Serious question.
NO KILL I
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2010 at 5:55:46 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I would think that the more one knows about Vegas, the less one would like Casino; do you think that holds true in your case? Serious question.



'Casino' is a gangster movie and has little to nothing to do with Vegas. Its just gangsters in a casino instead of gangsters in NJ.
It does not suck to be me.
Mosca
Mosca
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November 21st, 2010 at 6:06:23 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Mosca

I would think that the more one knows about Vegas, the less one would like Casino; do you think that holds true in your case? Serious question.



'Casino' is a gangster movie and has little to nothing to do with Vegas. Its just gangsters in a casino instead of gangsters in NJ.



Point taken, I agree; you are right. But that raises another question: to what degree is a movie more about the gambling, and less about the use of gambling as a plot device? Again, serious question. You've made an important distinction, I think. Of the movies suggested, which would you say are gambling movies, and which not? (I'm not setting you up, I really want to know.)
NO KILL I
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2010 at 6:24:12 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Mosca



Of the movies suggested, which would you say are gambling movies, and which not? (I'm not setting you up, I really want to know.)



None of them are 'gambling' movies, they're about gamblers and their quirks and antics. A movie about gambling would be about as boring as gambling itself. Casino gambling is about winning and losing money, its not about the game you're playing. You can never portray this in a movie, its an emotional experience.
It does not suck to be me.
Mosca
Mosca
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November 21st, 2010 at 6:31:32 PM permalink
Fair enough. I'm going to think about this for a while, and see if I can come up with something that works. It might be a movie that has nothing to do with casino gambling, but is about gambling.

Risky Business? ("Sometimes you just gotta say, 'What the fuck.'")
NO KILL I
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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November 21st, 2010 at 6:42:12 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Mosca

I would think that the more one knows about Vegas, the less one would like Casino; do you think that holds true in your case? Serious question.



'Casino' is a gangster movie and has little to nothing to do with Vegas. Its just gangsters in a casino instead of gangsters in NJ.



"Casino" was based on the Stardust and has everything to do with Vegas. The book has far more detail and the more I read about the backgrounnd the more I like the movie. Same guy wrote both books, same director, most of same cast; so it does look like "Goodfellas." But it was well done.

From what I have learned though, it makes Tony Spilotro (Pesci) look far less violent than the real person. It ignores a lot of Rosenthal's (DiNero) involvement. Gerri Rosenthal (Stone) seems the most right-on portrayal to real life.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2010 at 8:41:00 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman



"Casino" was based on the Stardust and has everything to do with Vegas.



Well, it certainly looked nothing like the Stardust or any other casino I was in circa late 70's. The ceilings were generally low, the gambling areas smaller than today and really smokey. I never saw anybody acting like gangsters, although there were tough looking guys in suits in some casinos. When I watch 'Casino' I never think of Vegas at all.
It does not suck to be me.
teddys
teddys
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November 21st, 2010 at 8:46:06 PM permalink
I like depressing gambling movies. The reality of losing is far more interesting than the fantasy of winning.

Hard Eight was pretty good. Gotta love Phil Hoffman in an early bit role as an obnoxious craps player! I didn't like The Cooler. It tried to hard to make the main character pathetic. The best movie was "Owning Mahoney." Very little gambling action, but showed the downward spiral into addiction very well: "You know you just brought a curse to this table."

"Yonkers Joe" is a good movie and I think one of the few dice-only flicks. It was shot at the Plaza.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Paigowdan
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:14:03 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


'Casino' is a gangster movie and has little to nothing to do with Vegas. Its just gangsters in a casino instead of gangsters in NJ.



"Casino" was based on the Stardust and has everything to do with Vegas.



Yes, indeed. Sam "Ace" Rothstein was based on Frank Rosenthal, an expert bookmaker who ghost-ran the Stardust, and Nicky Santoro (Joe Pesci) was a take-off of real-world Tony "The Ant" Spilotro. Oscar Goodman was Frank's attorney, the current LV mayor.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:25:13 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

I like depressing gambling movies. The reality of losing is far more interesting than the fantasy of winning.



Has 'The Hustler' been mentioned? It has everything thats depressing about gambling. And done in a very entertaining way. I also have 'Hard Times' on DVD. If you watch it, keep in mind that Charles Bronson was 55 when that movie was made, look at the condition he was in. Rock hard, not an ounce of fat on him. He did all his own fight scenes, he was a natural athlete. Bronson had an amazing life, most of it before he was ever in the movies. I remember reading a Playboy interview with him in the 70's. He was known to stand away from the movie set, in between takes, and stand totally still, staring off into the distance, for as long as it took to shoot the next scene. Sometimes for well over an hour. Spooky.
It does not suck to be me.
Wavy70
Wavy70
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November 21st, 2010 at 9:43:49 PM permalink
No one said "Sky full of moon"? Great shots of 1951 downtown.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
thecesspit
thecesspit
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November 22nd, 2010 at 12:23:40 AM permalink
How about the British film 'the croupier'?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Martin
Martin
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November 22nd, 2010 at 12:22:24 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I enjoyed the movie, but the final scene would make any real poker player throw up. The KId AND his nemesis (Yancey? Lancey?) play the hand like morons, and the final outcome is something like 675,423,009,125 to 1 against.



Yes I agree that they played the hand like "morons" but that was the point wasn't it? The facts of the event are not important - the final hand could have been a pair of deuces to a jack high - neither of them was going to back down. Poker is never a gambler against the house such as dice or blackjack - it is always a game against another person. The cards are nearly immaterial. If I can make you throw in the nuts flush because I've convinced you that I have a full-house I win - regardless of the cards. And sometimes you aren't going to convince the other guy to back down and you're going to get beat - that's why they call it gambling.

That was what made Rounders such a good movie and although it was a bit artificial in places for dramatic effect it still came down to a man vs a man in a fight to the finish using a deck of cards instead of fists and that's what it is really all about isn't it? To be crude a "mine is bigger than yours moment" that we've all experienced at one time or another at a poker table.

Good luck to you. Remember - as the wise guy said - I'd rather be lucky than good - you can't beat lucky.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 22nd, 2010 at 12:33:08 PM permalink
Quote: Martin

Yes I agree that they played the hand like "morons" but that was the point wasn't it? The facts of the event are not important - the final hand could have been a pair of deuces to a jack high - neither of them was going to back down..



I guess the problem was in the game of five-card stud itself, which is a moronically simple game--it is possible to be CERTAIN you have the best hand, at just about any juncture. The Kid should have bet as much as he could on third street or fourth street, when all Lancey (?) could have had was a pair. Lacking decent odds to his longshot, Lancey would have had to fold.

The other problem is that in the real world, one player can't just pull out some immense sum and force his opponent to fold. Unsophisticated movie audiences might think that that's the way it works, but it never did and never has--otherwise, some clown could just bring a gigantic sum of money to the game, and win every single hand simply by betting all of it. But the inability to cover a large bet figures prominently in the plot--twice. Of course, in the real world, all games are table stakes--a player who runs out of money during a hand is still eligible to win the main pot that existed at that moment.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Doc
Doc
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November 22nd, 2010 at 12:47:11 PM permalink
Quote: Martin

... The facts of the event are not important - the final hand could have been a pair of deuces to a jack high - neither of them was going to back down.

For some reason -- I have no idea why -- this comment reminded me of a gambling (mostly comedy) scene in a western film that wasn't really about gambling. I have only vague recollections, and I can't even remember what the film was, but maybe someone here can help me. It was one of the films the Rat Pack guys made together.

There is a scene where the Dean Martin character is playing poker with another guy (don't remember who), sitting on the ground in a stable as I recall. All of their wagers are outrageous things like a horseshoe or something that they can pick up right there. After the deal and first round of betting, they each are to draw their cards. One player -- maybe Martin, but I'm not sure -- says he will play the original five. The dealer corrects him, saying they are playing draw poker, so he has to draw. Under those conditions, he takes 5 cards, and they conduct the second round of outrageous raise, re-raise betting. Finally, when the betting is over, the exchange goes something like this way:
"O.K., what ya got?"
"Jacks."
"How many?"
"One."
"You win."

Anybody recall such a scene? Anyone remember what the film was?
Martin
Martin
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November 22nd, 2010 at 12:51:33 PM permalink
OK - I have no argument with your premise - all I'm saying that the movie was about playing cards not playing a hand - it was about character.

The first game I ever learned (8 years old - and that was awhile ago) was 5-stud. I still like it. On any street if you have any card or set of cards in your hand that is higher than the highest hand visible - bet and raise if the opportunity presents. How sweet and simple it is.
Doc
Doc
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November 22nd, 2010 at 12:52:37 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

.. Of course, in the real world, all games are table stakes--a player who runs out of money during a hand is still eligible to win the main pot that existed at that moment.

In an earlier post, I mentioned "A Big Hand for the Little Lady" and said the game had some tough table rules. The main one was that a player must meet the wager or fold, leaving his previous bets in the pot, in contrast to the real-world conditions that you cite. That well-discussed table rule, was key to the plot.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 22nd, 2010 at 1:03:01 PM permalink
Doc, I think you are thinking of 4 for Texas (1963) one of the more by the book Rat Pack comedies.

Martin and Lewis in their second film released in 1950 was partly set in Las Vegas. My Friend Irma Goes West.
crazyiam
crazyiam
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November 22nd, 2010 at 1:34:09 PM permalink
How do people leave out The Hustler and the Cincinnati Kid.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 22nd, 2010 at 3:02:15 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

In an earlier post, I mentioned "A Big Hand for the Little Lady" and said the game had some tough table rules. The main one was that a player must meet the wager or fold, leaving his previous bets in the pot, in contrast to the real-world conditions that you cite. That well-discussed table rule, was key to the plot.



Sure. But that movie was about a con, not a poker game as such. It was also a comedy, and the twist was actually a parody of the non-rule that was already a trope in Hollywood poker scenes, that the villain could pull a squiilion dollars out of his vest pocket and force the hero, who had already put all his money in the pot, to fold. So the villain is hoisted on his own petard when a "banker" just happens to show up.

My favorite moment in that movie is at the very end, when Joanne Woodward sits down to another poker game and expertly shuffles and riffles the deck.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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November 22nd, 2010 at 4:18:42 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Well, it certainly looked nothing like the Stardust or any other casino I was in circa late 70's. The ceilings were generally low, the gambling areas smaller than today and really smokey. I never saw anybody acting like gangsters, although there were tough looking guys in suits in some casinos. When I watch 'Casino' I never think of Vegas at all.



It wouldn't look like the Stardust because:

1. The inside scenes were filmed across the street at the Rivera and the outside scenes look to have been filmed at the Flamingo
2. It's a movie, not a doccumentary.

No one in a movie is going to build a whole casino-set for a few scenes. IRL, gangsters are not going to act like gangsters on the floor. To your statement that "when you watch 'Casino' you never think of Vegas at all" I would say you are the only one.

This is all I have to say on this since you are starting to talk like the poster a few months back who wanted to argue the meaning of "destroyed" in regards to Detroit.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
pacomartin
pacomartin
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November 22nd, 2010 at 4:45:55 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Sure. But that movie was about a con, not a poker game as such. It was also a comedy, and the twist was actually a parody of the non-rule that was already a trope in Hollywood poker scenes, that the villain could pull a squiilion dollars out of his vest pocket and force the hero, who had already put all his money in the pot, to fold. So the villain is hoisted on his own petard when a "banker" just happens to show up.



Hoist on his own petard is a 400 year old phrase that people use, usually without knowing what it means. It is a line from the same work that I could be bounded by a nutshell, and count myself king of the world, were it not that I have bad dreams and sweets to the sweet and in my mind's eye comes from.

Of course, google has ruined trivia games.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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November 22nd, 2010 at 5:07:09 PM permalink
I recently watched the Robert Redford directed, "A River Runs Through It" for the first time. If you haven't seen it, it's a biographical period piece about two son's of a Presbyterian minister growing up in prohibition era Montana. Brad Pitt 's character, the younger brother, Paul, is addicted to gambling. The film is beautifully shot, and won an Oscar for Cinematography in 1993.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
mkl654321
mkl654321
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November 22nd, 2010 at 6:16:19 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Hoist on his own petard is a 400 year old phrase that people use, usually without knowing what it means. It is a line from the same work that I could be bounded by a nutshell, and count myself king of the world, were it not that I have bad dreams and sweets to the sweet and in my mind's eye comes from.

Of course, google has ruined trivia games.



Who needs Google? It's an odds-on bet that if you are wondering where a particular turn of phrase came from, it was probably Shakespeare.

The phrase refers to what happens when you cut the fuse too short.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Doc
Doc
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November 22nd, 2010 at 7:13:29 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Doc, I think you are thinking of 4 for Texas (1963) one of the more by the book Rat Pack comedies.

Excellent, Mr. Martin! I checked this title in IMDB. I didn't remember that the film actually was about opening a casino.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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November 22nd, 2010 at 7:33:35 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

I like depressing gambling movies. The reality of losing is far more interesting than the fantasy of winning.

Hard Eight was pretty good. Gotta love Phil Hoffman in an early bit role as an obnoxious craps player! I didn't like The Cooler. It tried to hard to make the main character pathetic. The best movie was "Owning Mahoney." Very little gambling action, but showed the downward spiral into addiction very well: "You know you just brought a curse to this table."

"Yonkers Joe" is a good movie and I think one of the few dice-only flicks. It was shot at the Plaza.



- Mahowny is a great movie as it has gambling and Toronto and is based on real life.
- Nicholas Cage and Elizabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas... depressing movie but the pool scene is pretty hot.
- Casino is a great movie.
- Vegas Vacation is very funny. I usually comment after a long losing streak "I just got Griswold".
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Morphius
Morphius
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November 29th, 2010 at 3:41:51 AM permalink
Every poker player loves rounders... truly a good film and Matt Damon (i hear that name and think Team America) at his best!

one that is stretching it a little is the good old bond Casino Royale... epic film from the best british spy!

must get round to watching Casino though... been on my Must Watch list for years now!
clarkacal
clarkacal
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February 8th, 2011 at 6:37:00 PM permalink
Where is "The Hustler" and "Cincinnati Kid"?

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