Find me a law that states a casino can NOT shuffle to their advantage

This isn’t a challenge or anything because I have been looking as well and can’t find anything. But I was speaking with a player who was next to me at stadium blackjack who shared a bit of my sentiment when it came to the outcomes of the games played at the stadium blckjack. Pretty much I was saying that certain outcomes happen and he agreed. But he disagreed with me when I said there are zero laws that state whether a DEALER can legally stack the deck. I know this question is about the casino though because I’m generalizing. There is only one law in my state which is to “randomize” the shoe. I’m very curious because (I forgot which state) but there was an article posted on here about certiain cheating moves and what not we’re not illegal in the state because it wasn’t codeified in their state law (Virginia? Something on the east coast maybe Georgia? I forget)

I should mention he said he received his info from the gaming control board whereas I’m quoting direct laws

Quote: heatmap

This isn’t a challenge or anything because I have been looking as well and can’t find anything. But I was speaking with a player who was next to me at stadium blackjack who shared a bit of my sentiment when it came to the outcomes of the games played at the stadium blckjack. Pretty much I was saying that certain outcomes happen and he agreed. But he disagreed with me when I said there are zero laws that state whether a DEALER can legally stack the deck. I know this question is about the casino though because I’m generalizing. There is only one law in my state which is to “randomize” the shoe. I’m very curious because (I forgot which state) but there was an article posted on here about certiain cheating moves and what not we’re not illegal in the state because it wasn’t codeified in their state law (Virginia? Something on the east coast maybe Georgia? I forget)

Why would they cheat? They already have an advantage, it would ruin their reputation....

Richard Turner even said, the safest place for a card game is a regulated casino, people like him get hired in private/underground games.

As for an actual law, I believe that in most states (I would need more time to research), the game rules have to be posted and followed. If the casinos were to do something to alter the rules without the knowledge of the player that would likely be a violation.

Quote: Gandler

Why would they cheat? They already have an advantage, it would ruin their reputation....

Richard Turner even said, the safest place for a card game is a regulated casino, people like him get hired in private/underground games.

As for an actual law, I believe that in most states (I would need more time to research), the game rules have to be posted and followed. If the casinos were to do something to alter the rules without the knowledge of the player that would likely be a violation.

no cheating accused here. if they have the ability to "randomize" any algorithm can be used within the shuffler, as they are mechanical in nature, but still utilize a pseudo random number generator and if they randomize it is never considered cheating IMO. They can use any algorithm they want because there is nothing stating that they cant, or which algorithms they can use. Of course they have to get by GLI, but they even state that they sometimes do not look at the code of the programs and its on a case by case basis that they do. They simply run the random number generator and check for "randomness" - whatever that is and payout percentages and whatever else they test for. But as I have asked a member named teliot, he states that there is no such thing as an illegal algorithm.

Quote: heatmap

... certiain cheating moves and what not were not illegal in the state because it wasn’t codeified in their state law (Virginia? Something on the east coast maybe Georgia? I forget)

Other than a day cruise operating out of Brunswick, where would you find a legal game in Georgia? (Perhaps in Tbilisi, if you want to be picky, but that's not on the east coast of anything, I think.)

Quote: Doc

Other than a day cruise operating out of Brunswick, where would you find a legal game in Georgia? (Perhaps in Tbilisi, if you want to be picky, but that's not on the east coast of anything, I think.)

As somebody currently in GA, I would also like to know lol

The Brunswick cruise is good, but limited like all gaming cruises. There used to be a cruise out of Savannah (where I am), but that shut down a couple years ago due to CG issues. Jacks or Better was trying to open, but got opposition from Tybee Island, and the boat has left (and it seems they have given up).

I don't think there are any legal casinos land based, I do not even know of any Indian Casinos in GA. So I am pretty sure GA does not have a gaming code on the books as there is no legal gaming.

Quote: Gandler

Quote: Doc

Other than a day cruise operating out of Brunswick, where would you find a legal game in Georgia? (Perhaps in Tbilisi, if you want to be picky, but that's not on the east coast of anything, I think.)

As somebody currently in GA, I would also like to know lol

The Brunswick cruise is good, but limited like all gaming cruises. There used to be a cruise out of Savannah (where I am), but that shut down a couple years ago due to CG issues. Jacks or Better was trying to open, but got opposition from Tybee Island, and the boat has left (and it seems they have given up).

I don't think there are any legal casinos land based, I do not even know of any Indian Casinos in GA. So I am pretty sure GA does not have a gaming code on the books as there is no legal gaming.

the article is somewhere around here but weve eliminated georgia

Quote: Gandler

Why would they cheat?

That's a bad question with lots of answers. There is a history of reputable bushiness cheating. One should never ask that question.

Quote: Gandler

Why would they cheat? They already have an advantage, it would ruin their reputation....

Why would men with a beautiful wife cheat? It would ruin their reputation.

Cheating could be initiated at several different management levels, and individuals at different levels have different sets of issues and goals than the CEO of the corporation.

Even with their current advantage, many casinos are struggling financially, or at least facing declining revenues.

Quote: gordonm888

Why would men with a beautiful wife cheat?

there's an old saying, for every supermodel there's some guy tired of f****** her.

Quote: heatmap

... I have been looking as well and can’t find anything.

They exist.

PA Blackjack

Regulations for Blackjack begin on Pg. 608

§ 633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards.
Immediately prior to commencement of play, unless the cards were preshuffled in accordance with § 603a.16(u) or (v) (relating to cards; receipt, storage, inspection and removal from use), after each shoe of cards is dealt or when directed by a floorperson or above, the dealer shall shuffle the cards, either manually or by use of an automated card shuffling device, so that the cards are randomly intermixed.

(e) After the cards have been cut and before the cards have been placed in the dealing shoe, a floorperson or above may require the cards to be recut if the floorperson determines that the cut was performed improperly or in any way that might affect the integrity or fairness of the game.


(g) If there is no gaming activity at a Blackjack table which is open for gaming, the cards shall be removed from the dealing shoe and the discard rack and spread out on the table face down unless a player requests that the cards be spread face up on the table. After the first player arriving at the table is afforded an opportunity to visually inspect the cards shall be:

Mixed thoroughly by a washing of the cards, stacked, then shuffled and cut in accordance with this section, if there is no automated shuffling device in use.

(2) Stacked and placed into the automated shuffling device to be shuffled, if an automated shuffling device is in use. The batch of cards already in the shuffler shall then be removed. Unless a player requests otherwise, the batch of cards removed from the shuffler does not need to be spread for inspection and reshuffled prior to being dealt, if the automated card shuffling device stores a single batch of shuffled cards inside the shuffler in a secure manner.


New York State: NYCRR Title 9

§ 4623.2. Standard of conduct of games prescribed.
Every licensed authorized organization shall so supervise, regulate and conduct games of chance, in accordance with the Games of Chance Licensing Law and this Chapter, so as to afford and ensure all players a fair opportunity to win and to eliminate any influence that has or may have as its purpose the predetermination or selection of any individual winner or winners, loser or losers.

Nevada: Chapter 465

NRS 465.083  Cheating.  It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game.

One thing that is allowed in Nevada, is preferential shuffling. It allows the dealer to shuffle a shoe whenever the remainder of the shoe favors the players. I know one dealer on the Strip who has done this.

Quote: Tanko

They exist.

PA Blackjack

Regulations for Blackjack begin on Pg. 608

§ 633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards.
Immediately prior to commencement of play, unless the cards were preshuffled in accordance with § 603a.16(u) or (v) (relating to cards; receipt, storage, inspection and removal from use), after each shoe of cards is dealt or when directed by a floorperson or above, the dealer shall shuffle the cards, either manually or by use of an automated card shuffling device, so that the cards are randomly intermixed.

(e) After the cards have been cut and before the cards have been placed in the dealing shoe, a floorperson or above may require the cards to be recut if the floorperson determines that the cut was performed improperly or in any way that might affect the integrity or fairness of the game.


(g) If there is no gaming activity at a Blackjack table which is open for gaming, the cards shall be removed from the dealing shoe and the discard rack and spread out on the table face down unless a player requests that the cards be spread face up on the table. After the first player arriving at the table is afforded an opportunity to visually inspect the cards shall be:

Mixed thoroughly by a washing of the cards, stacked, then shuffled and cut in accordance with this section, if there is no automated shuffling device in use.

(2) Stacked and placed into the automated shuffling device to be shuffled, if an automated shuffling device is in use. The batch of cards already in the shuffler shall then be removed. Unless a player requests otherwise, the batch of cards removed from the shuffler does not need to be spread for inspection and reshuffled prior to being dealt, if the automated card shuffling device stores a single batch of shuffled cards inside the shuffler in a secure manner.


New York State: NYCRR Title 9

§ 4623.2. Standard of conduct of games prescribed.
Every licensed authorized organization shall so supervise, regulate and conduct games of chance, in accordance with the Games of Chance Licensing Law and this Chapter, so as to afford and ensure all players a fair opportunity to win and to eliminate any influence that has or may have as its purpose the predetermination or selection of any individual winner or winners, loser or losers.

Nevada: Chapter 465

NRS 465.083  Cheating.  It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game.

One thing that is allowed in Nevada, is preferential shuffling. It allows the dealer to shuffle a shoe whenever the remainder of the shoe favors the players. I know one dealer on the Strip who has done this.

I’ll admit I’m from pa but I don’t see the “non-cheating” part within your quoted law it says “randomly intermixed” which is why I said “whatever random is” up on my first post. The other states actually seem to say you can’t setup the deck to your advantage. Thank you so much for this.

Also state number two in question says “cheating” but do they define it?

The Nevada one seems to be the closes to what I was looking for as I have said I’m from pa and know the laws and to me unless you are direct then people will interpret it as they can do something that isn’t considered cheating everywhere

Quote: AxelWolf

there's an old saying, for every supermodel there's some guy tired of f****** her.

Show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a guy who is miserable.