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August 15th, 2019 at 4:08:06 PM permalink
This isnít a challenge or anything because I have been looking as well and canít find anything. But I was speaking with a player who was next to me at stadium blackjack who shared a bit of my sentiment when it came to the outcomes of the games played at the stadium blckjack. Pretty much I was saying that certain outcomes happen and he agreed. But he disagreed with me when I said there are zero laws that state whether a DEALER can legally stack the deck. I know this question is about the casino though because Iím generalizing. There is only one law in my state which is to ďrandomizeĒ the shoe. Iím very curious because (I forgot which state) but there was an article posted on here about certiain cheating moves and what not weíre not illegal in the state because it wasnít codeified in their state law (Virginia? Something on the east coast maybe Georgia? I forget)

I should mention he said he received his info from the gaming control board whereas Iím quoting direct laws
Gandler
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August 15th, 2019 at 4:13:58 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

This isnít a challenge or anything because I have been looking as well and canít find anything. But I was speaking with a player who was next to me at stadium blackjack who shared a bit of my sentiment when it came to the outcomes of the games played at the stadium blckjack. Pretty much I was saying that certain outcomes happen and he agreed. But he disagreed with me when I said there are zero laws that state whether a DEALER can legally stack the deck. I know this question is about the casino though because Iím generalizing. There is only one law in my state which is to ďrandomizeĒ the shoe. Iím very curious because (I forgot which state) but there was an article posted on here about certiain cheating moves and what not weíre not illegal in the state because it wasnít codeified in their state law (Virginia? Something on the east coast maybe Georgia? I forget)



Why would they cheat? They already have an advantage, it would ruin their reputation....

Richard Turner even said, the safest place for a card game is a regulated casino, people like him get hired in private/underground games.

As for an actual law, I believe that in most states (I would need more time to research), the game rules have to be posted and followed. If the casinos were to do something to alter the rules without the knowledge of the player that would likely be a violation.
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August 15th, 2019 at 4:36:26 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Why would they cheat? They already have an advantage, it would ruin their reputation....

Richard Turner even said, the safest place for a card game is a regulated casino, people like him get hired in private/underground games.

As for an actual law, I believe that in most states (I would need more time to research), the game rules have to be posted and followed. If the casinos were to do something to alter the rules without the knowledge of the player that would likely be a violation.



no cheating accused here. if they have the ability to "randomize" any algorithm can be used within the shuffler, as they are mechanical in nature, but still utilize a pseudo random number generator and if they randomize it is never considered cheating IMO. They can use any algorithm they want because there is nothing stating that they cant, or which algorithms they can use. Of course they have to get by GLI, but they even state that they sometimes do not look at the code of the programs and its on a case by case basis that they do. They simply run the random number generator and check for "randomness" - whatever that is and payout percentages and whatever else they test for. But as I have asked a member named teliot, he states that there is no such thing as an illegal algorithm.
Doc
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August 15th, 2019 at 4:54:34 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

... certiain cheating moves and what not were not illegal in the state because it wasnít codeified in their state law (Virginia? Something on the east coast maybe Georgia? I forget)

Other than a day cruise operating out of Brunswick, where would you find a legal game in Georgia? (Perhaps in Tbilisi, if you want to be picky, but that's not on the east coast of anything, I think.)
Gandler
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August 15th, 2019 at 5:00:02 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Other than a day cruise operating out of Brunswick, where would you find a legal game in Georgia? (Perhaps in Tbilisi, if you want to be picky, but that's not on the east coast of anything, I think.)



As somebody currently in GA, I would also like to know lol

The Brunswick cruise is good, but limited like all gaming cruises. There used to be a cruise out of Savannah (where I am), but that shut down a couple years ago due to CG issues. Jacks or Better was trying to open, but got opposition from Tybee Island, and the boat has left (and it seems they have given up).

I don't think there are any legal casinos land based, I do not even know of any Indian Casinos in GA. So I am pretty sure GA does not have a gaming code on the books as there is no legal gaming.
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August 15th, 2019 at 5:25:28 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Quote: Doc

Other than a day cruise operating out of Brunswick, where would you find a legal game in Georgia? (Perhaps in Tbilisi, if you want to be picky, but that's not on the east coast of anything, I think.)



As somebody currently in GA, I would also like to know lol

The Brunswick cruise is good, but limited like all gaming cruises. There used to be a cruise out of Savannah (where I am), but that shut down a couple years ago due to CG issues. Jacks or Better was trying to open, but got opposition from Tybee Island, and the boat has left (and it seems they have given up).

I don't think there are any legal casinos land based, I do not even know of any Indian Casinos in GA. So I am pretty sure GA does not have a gaming code on the books as there is no legal gaming.



the article is somewhere around here but weve eliminated georgia
AxelWolf
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August 15th, 2019 at 7:01:32 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Why would they cheat?

That's a bad question with lots of answers. There is a history of reputable bushiness cheating. One should never ask that question.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gordonm888
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August 15th, 2019 at 8:18:39 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Why would they cheat? They already have an advantage, it would ruin their reputation....



Why would men with a beautiful wife cheat? It would ruin their reputation.

Cheating could be initiated at several different management levels, and individuals at different levels have different sets of issues and goals than the CEO of the corporation.

Even with their current advantage, many casinos are struggling financially, or at least facing declining revenues.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
AxelWolf
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August 15th, 2019 at 10:55:55 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Why would men with a beautiful wife cheat?

there's an old saying, for every supermodel there's some guy tired of f****** her.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Tanko
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August 16th, 2019 at 2:01:50 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

... I have been looking as well and canít find anything.



They exist.

PA Blackjack

Regulations for Blackjack begin on Pg. 608

§ 633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards.
Immediately prior to commencement of play, unless the cards were preshuffled in accordance with § 603a.16(u) or (v) (relating to cards; receipt, storage, inspection and removal from use), after each shoe of cards is dealt or when directed by a floorperson or above, the dealer shall shuffle the cards, either manually or by use of an automated card shuffling device, so that the cards are randomly intermixed.

(e) After the cards have been cut and before the cards have been placed in the dealing shoe, a floorperson or above may require the cards to be recut if the floorperson determines that the cut was performed improperly or in any way that might affect the integrity or fairness of the game.


(g) If there is no gaming activity at a Blackjack table which is open for gaming, the cards shall be removed from the dealing shoe and the discard rack and spread out on the table face down unless a player requests that the cards be spread face up on the table. After the first player arriving at the table is afforded an opportunity to visually inspect the cards shall be:

Mixed thoroughly by a washing of the cards, stacked, then shuffled and cut in accordance with this section, if there is no automated shuffling device in use.

(2) Stacked and placed into the automated shuffling device to be shuffled, if an automated shuffling device is in use. The batch of cards already in the shuffler shall then be removed. Unless a player requests otherwise, the batch of cards removed from the shuffler does not need to be spread for inspection and reshuffled prior to being dealt, if the automated card shuffling device stores a single batch of shuffled cards inside the shuffler in a secure manner.


New York State: NYCRR Title 9

§ 4623.2. Standard of conduct of games prescribed.
Every licensed authorized organization shall so supervise, regulate and conduct games of chance, in accordance with the Games of Chance Licensing Law and this Chapter, so as to afford and ensure all players a fair opportunity to win and to eliminate any influence that has or may have as its purpose the predetermination or selection of any individual winner or winners, loser or losers.

Nevada: Chapter 465

NRS 465.083  Cheating.  It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game.

One thing that is allowed in Nevada, is preferential shuffling. It allows the dealer to shuffle a shoe whenever the remainder of the shoe favors the players. I know one dealer on the Strip who has done this.
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August 16th, 2019 at 4:08:51 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

They exist.

PA Blackjack

Regulations for Blackjack begin on Pg. 608

§ 633a.5. Shuffle and cut of the cards.
Immediately prior to commencement of play, unless the cards were preshuffled in accordance with § 603a.16(u) or (v) (relating to cards; receipt, storage, inspection and removal from use), after each shoe of cards is dealt or when directed by a floorperson or above, the dealer shall shuffle the cards, either manually or by use of an automated card shuffling device, so that the cards are randomly intermixed.

(e) After the cards have been cut and before the cards have been placed in the dealing shoe, a floorperson or above may require the cards to be recut if the floorperson determines that the cut was performed improperly or in any way that might affect the integrity or fairness of the game.


(g) If there is no gaming activity at a Blackjack table which is open for gaming, the cards shall be removed from the dealing shoe and the discard rack and spread out on the table face down unless a player requests that the cards be spread face up on the table. After the first player arriving at the table is afforded an opportunity to visually inspect the cards shall be:

Mixed thoroughly by a washing of the cards, stacked, then shuffled and cut in accordance with this section, if there is no automated shuffling device in use.

(2) Stacked and placed into the automated shuffling device to be shuffled, if an automated shuffling device is in use. The batch of cards already in the shuffler shall then be removed. Unless a player requests otherwise, the batch of cards removed from the shuffler does not need to be spread for inspection and reshuffled prior to being dealt, if the automated card shuffling device stores a single batch of shuffled cards inside the shuffler in a secure manner.


New York State: NYCRR Title 9

§ 4623.2. Standard of conduct of games prescribed.
Every licensed authorized organization shall so supervise, regulate and conduct games of chance, in accordance with the Games of Chance Licensing Law and this Chapter, so as to afford and ensure all players a fair opportunity to win and to eliminate any influence that has or may have as its purpose the predetermination or selection of any individual winner or winners, loser or losers.

Nevada: Chapter 465

NRS 465.083  Cheating.  It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game.

One thing that is allowed in Nevada, is preferential shuffling. It allows the dealer to shuffle a shoe whenever the remainder of the shoe favors the players. I know one dealer on the Strip who has done this.



Iíll admit Iím from pa but I donít see the ďnon-cheatingĒ part within your quoted law it says ďrandomly intermixedĒ which is why I said ďwhatever random isĒ up on my first post. The other states actually seem to say you canít setup the deck to your advantage. Thank you so much for this.

Also state number two in question says ďcheatingĒ but do they define it?

The Nevada one seems to be the closes to what I was looking for as I have said Iím from pa and know the laws and to me unless you are direct then people will interpret it as they can do something that isnít considered cheating everywhere
onenickelmiracle
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August 16th, 2019 at 8:19:41 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

there's an old saying, for every supermodel there's some guy tired of f****** her.

Show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a guy who is miserable.
I am a robot.
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