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petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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January 23rd, 2019 at 1:22:47 PM permalink
Quote: Minty

I'm kind of frustrated that anti intellectualism is so prominent between anti vaxxers, flat earthers, rubbish diets and cleanses and so many other things. The complete and utter lack of evidence to support the claims that vaccines are harmful should be enough to convince anyone.

You may be correct, however ?

My sister just got out of the hospital and transferred to a 24 hour care facility, which included 6 weeks in ICU from a reaction to a vaccine. Other side effects were several mini strokes.

Over ten weeks now. Hopefully she can get her feeding tube removed soon and the physical therapy will get her back to her normal healthy self.

Odds were over 1/1000000, but there it is. I was at the Dr"s 2 days ago and the nurse asked me if I wanted a flu shot, I said no. I am glad however that most people do get flu/vaccine shots. I need them to. I had the ones that were appropriate for kids in the 60's and tetanus, but haven't gotten all the ones school kids have to get for school now. I heard they needed upwards of 25 vaccines, can you confirm?

Do any of you older folk update your vaccines to equal what school age children are required to get now or are you risking it and staying with what was good enough when you were school age???

Father in law, the epitome of what a man should be, [hit the gym right up to 3 weeks before he died at 82] died of pneumonia in the hospital, weeks after getting a pneumonia shot. He didn't know there are 8 kinds of pneumonia and apparently that vaccine wasn't the right one ? So everyone needs to do their own DD.

In our family, although none of us claim to be intellectuals, we have one dead, one in the hospital and one refusing on religious grounds because several vaccines the school is demanding her kids get, are grown in aborted human fetal tissue. I know, what are you gonna do, right?
Minty
Minty
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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January 23rd, 2019 at 1:30:46 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

You may be correct, however ?

My sister just got out of the hospital and transferred to a 24 hour care facility, which included 6 weeks in ICU from a reaction to a vaccine. Other side effects were several mini strokes.

Over ten weeks now. Hopefully she can get her feeding tube removed soon and the physical therapy will get her back to her normal healthy self.

Odds were over 1/1000000, but there it is. I was at the Dr"s 2 days ago and the nurse asked me if I wanted a flu shot, I said no. I am glad however that most people do get flu/vaccine shots. I need them to. I had the ones that were appropriate for kids in the 60's and tetanus, but haven't gotten all the ones school kids have to get for school now. I heard they needed upwards of 25 vaccines, can you confirm?

Do any of you older folk update your vaccines to equal what school age children are required to get now or are you risking it and staying with what was good enough when you were school age???

Father in law, the epitome of what a man should be, [hit the gym right up to 3 weeks before he died at 82] died of pneumonia in the hospital, weeks after getting a pneumonia shot. He didn't know there are 8 kinds of pneumonia and apparently that vaccine wasn't the right one ? So everyone needs to do their own DD.

In our family, although none of us claim to be intellectuals, we have one dead, one in the hospital and one refusing on religious grounds because several vaccines the school is demanding her kids get, are grown in aborted human fetal tissue. I know, what are you gonna do, right?



I concede that yes, there are some who it makes more sense not to be vaccinated. My girlfriend's mom had a reaction to a vaccine and I can't even begin to list all the things she's allergic to. I can't say that I get a flu shot every year either, because I forget often. Kids do receive more than a dozen and probably two dozen vaccines by school time and I'm glad they do.

It's just one of those things where it USUALLY goes swimmingly but doesn't always. Driving, sex, eating and any other activity fall into that category as well.

I'm sorry about what's happened with your family and wish for a speedy recovery for your sister.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
gamerfreakbeachbumbabs
January 23rd, 2019 at 1:32:24 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I am NOT anti-science or medicine by any stretch of the imagination, but I did some research into how a lot of these studies are conducted, and I really don’t think it’s smart to let the ebb and flow of research to effect your daily decision making.

So many of these studies are done through Epidemiology. Which is more or less just statistical analysis of huge medical databases. They find some sort of correlation, but rarely prove any kind of mechanism of action.

Media outlets love to cling on to their “NEW RESEARCH SHOWS” clickbait when the actual research does not prove anything.

I’d be interested if SOOPOO has any comments on this.



I am EXTREMELY skeptical about research and it's eventual publication. I have been involved in research. The last time I was paid by a company to help develop a medical product for sale. To make a long story short, my research showed that the product was no better than the existing products. And it was definitely more cumbersome. So my opinion was that it was not going to result in a salable device. Although no one ever said "falsify your data" to me, it was clear if this product made it to market I would be paid handsomly for giving lectures about it. Definitely a conflict of interest. There are numerous examples of paid researchers being caught in the drug research world doing such things.
On a side note, for those that do not know me I have diabetes. At present I have none of the many possible bad things it can cause. I get blood work around 4 times a year and last doctor visit my doctor, who I like a lot, recommended I go on an anti cholesterol drug. I follow my own lab results, and pointed out my cholesterol levels have always been good, with the LDL/HDL ratio always being good too. She told me it is now recommended that all diabetics my age should be on one of those drugs, sort of like the baby aspirin I take preventatively. I know of many people who have tried a variety of the cholesterol lowering drugs and have heard a large number of them have stopped taking them due to side effects. So I declined. Maybe the wrong decision? Perhaps but it is my decision.
Minty
Minty
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabs
January 23rd, 2019 at 1:36:49 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I am EXTREMELY skeptical about research and it's eventual publication. I have been involved in research. The last time I was paid by a company to help develop a medical product for sale. To make a long story short, my research showed that the product was no better than the existing products. And it was definitely more cumbersome. So my opinion was that it was not going to result in a salable device. Although no one ever said "falsify your data" to me, it was clear if this product made it to market I would be paid handsomly for giving lectures about it. Definitely a conflict of interest. There are numerous examples of paid researchers being caught in the drug research world doing such things.
On a side note, for those that do not know me I have diabetes. At present I have none of the many possible bad things it can cause. I get blood work around 4 times a year and last doctor visit my doctor, who I like a lot, recommended I go on an anti cholesterol drug. I follow my own lab results, and pointed out my cholesterol levels have always been good, with the LDL/HDL ratio always being good too. She told me it is now recommended that all diabetics my age should be on one of those drugs, sort of like the baby aspirin I take preventatively. I know of many people who have tried a variety of the cholesterol lowering drugs and have heard a large number of them have stopped taking them due to side effects. So I declined. Maybe the wrong decision? Perhaps but it is my decision.



There is an issue in the medical field with over prescribing. The opioid epidemic didn't become what it is without doctors and pharmaceutical companies. The decision not to take medicine your doctor advised won't affect society the same way as if people don't take recommended vaccines, and I think that's an important distinction.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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January 23rd, 2019 at 1:45:36 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

You may be correct, however ?

My sister just got out of the hospital and transferred to a 24 hour care facility, which included 6 weeks in ICU from a reaction to a vaccine. Other side effects were several mini strokes.

Over ten weeks now. Hopefully she can get her feeding tube removed soon and the physical therapy will get her back to her normal healthy self.

Odds were over 1/1000000, but there it is. I was at the Dr"s 2 days ago and the nurse asked me if I wanted a flu shot, I said no. I am glad however that most people do get flu/vaccine shots. I need them to. I had the ones that were appropriate for kids in the 60's and tetanus, but haven't gotten all the ones school kids have to get for school now. I heard they needed upwards of 25 vaccines, can you confirm?

Do any of you older folk update your vaccines to equal what school age children are required to get now or are you risking it and staying with what was good enough when you were school age???

Father in law, the epitome of what a man should be, [hit the gym right up to 3 weeks before he died at 82] died of pneumonia in the hospital, weeks after getting a pneumonia shot. He didn't know there are 8 kinds of pneumonia and apparently that vaccine wasn't the right one ? So everyone needs to do their own DD.

In our family, although none of us claim to be intellectuals, we have one dead, one in the hospital and one refusing on religious grounds because several vaccines the school is demanding her kids get, are grown in aborted human fetal tissue. I know, what are you gonna do, right?



petro,

Sorry you are going through this. Hang in there.

Your situation is EXACTLY why people need to be vaccinated. You and your genetic relations need to be safe without being vaccinated. That puts you in the very small group of people who can't tolerate even the killed version of a pathogen. Others include very young babies, old and frail people, people with autoimmune diseases, others.

The REST of us, myself included, have a real responsibility to get vaccinated, just to eradicate the pathogens that you can't be protected from. You now have shown a generational vulnerability to protecting yourself, and you're totally correct to refuse the vaccine.

But the OTHER part is to reduce your exposure to infection or transmission by everybody else making their body produce the antigens that will prevent them from carrying or transmitting live pathogens. You (all those vulnerable among us) should not have to live in a bubble because of uninformed myths. That responsibility probably includes your wife and other not-related by blood people around you.

There is a percentage in the 90% of the population that has to be inoculated for a vaccine to be effective. Point being, it doesn't have to be 100%. Other people can save your family's lives by getting vaccinated, not just for themselves, but for you. And for their newborn and elderly family and friends. And pregnant women. And others.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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January 23rd, 2019 at 1:53:13 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I am EXTREMELY skeptical about research and it's eventual publication. I have been involved in research. The last time I was paid by a company to help develop a medical product for sale. To make a long story short, my research showed that the product was no better than the existing products. And it was definitely more cumbersome. So my opinion was that it was not going to result in a salable device. Although no one ever said "falsify your data" to me, it was clear if this product made it to market I would be paid handsomly for giving lectures about it. Definitely a conflict of interest. There are numerous examples of paid researchers being caught in the drug research world doing such things.
On a side note, for those that do not know me I have diabetes. At present I have none of the many possible bad things it can cause. I get blood work around 4 times a year and last doctor visit my doctor, who I like a lot, recommended I go on an anti cholesterol drug. I follow my own lab results, and pointed out my cholesterol levels have always been good, with the LDL/HDL ratio always being good too. She told me it is now recommended that all diabetics my age should be on one of those drugs, sort of like the baby aspirin I take preventatively. I know of many people who have tried a variety of the cholesterol lowering drugs and have heard a large number of them have stopped taking them due to side effects. So I declined. Maybe the wrong decision? Perhaps but it is my decision.



SOOPOO,

As you but not many people here know, I also have diabetes. And even though I have no HDL/LDL issues either, my doctor has given the same statin advice over the last 2 years. And I also have declined. So you're not alone.

It's not just side effects. I also try not to take drugs not clearly required. 30 years of ATC where it was a big deal to even take a Benedryl or Nyquil (disqualifying to work, both of them), I am doing just fine, good numbers and all, with diet and exercise. So good on you turning them down and thanks for saying so - it always helps to know I'm not alone in things like this.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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January 23rd, 2019 at 2:08:24 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Your situation is EXACTLY why people need to be vaccinated.

I WANT people to get vaccines.

Just because we drew a few lousy cards doesn't mean we hate the game.

This is funny, so no worries: I have to get anti inflammatory shots. And as a precaution so I don't have a reaction to the shots, they give me a shot of IV Benedryl first, so I don't have a reaction.

The last one they gave me, within seconds, it was like fire running up my vein, I screeched [like a girl : }], and told the nurse what was happening. She replied, "that must be a bad batch, you are the second person today that's had a reaction to the anti reaction drug". lol

In my Sis's case, it's better than first thought. They originally suspected BSE [ Creutzfeldt-Jakob ] or human "mad cow" disease. Prion disease is always fatal.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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January 23rd, 2019 at 5:17:38 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

You can't take facts anymore?

Look back a few hundred years, not thousands of years, by heading to a few older burial grounds and you will see evidence that helps prove the life expectancy at given times. Go back further and you can use evidence gathered by scientists to make reasonable estimates of what lifespans were.

Statistical evaluations did not start with computers.

On one hand you talk about modern medicine improving lifespans; on the other you want to ignore it.

Improving health habits, in concert with using modern medical practices like vaccinations, can help a person stay healthy longer.

A practical, and safe for society, approach would be to change to habits that make one healthy and to use the advancements in modern medicine, like vaccines, to do your part to protect everyone and to keep from getting things that healthy habits alone won't fix.



Where the hell did I mention about modern medicines IMPROVING LIFESPANS? Honestly, it's like people need to fabricate crap and put words in my mouth to have any chance of arguing with me.
Last edited by: ZenKinG on Jan 23, 2019
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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January 23rd, 2019 at 5:17:39 PM permalink
double post
Last edited by: ZenKinG on Jan 23, 2019
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.

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