kenarman
kenarman
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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October 30th, 2010 at 10:54:48 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

There is little "there," there on the Strip.

Locals avoid it like the plague.

They prefer to patronize the locals joints .

Think about why that is, then reboot, and try again.



What you are missing is that for the visitor we all have our 'local' casino at home. We are looking for the overtop buzz of the strip. If we wanted the quiet casino with staff and other customers we knew we could stay home.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
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October 30th, 2010 at 11:21:36 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

There is little "there," there on the Strip.

Locals avoid it like the plague.

They prefer to patronize the locals joints .

Think about why that is, then reboot, and try again.



What kenarman said, with the following as an additional motivation...

I live 10 minutes from the Poconos. I don't go there. My sister lives 2 blocks off the beach in Ocean City NJ; she only goes to the beach when we visit her. One of my oldest friends lives in Manhattan; she never visits the Empire State Building, or the Statue of Liberty.

Think about why that is, then reboot, and try again.
NO KILL I
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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October 30th, 2010 at 11:41:15 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Locals avoid it like the plague.
They prefer to patronize the locals joints .


I think local residents avoid the traffic jams and parking hassles, yes.
They don't necessarily avoid the Strip Casinos... they just have to have a darn good reason: out of town visitors, special events, etc.
Does this mean that "The Buzz" is diminished for them? Sure. Locals are immunized to its effect by repeated exposure.

Do locals prefer local joints? Usually, but those local joints usually have to pay a premium to obtain their business. Its not out of the goodness of their hearts that local casinos offer better odds, better slots, better this and better that. Its a matter of convenience to the customer to choose between the Strip's mega resorts and the geographically more inviting but a bit more bland local joints.

In reality, geography probably plays quite a role but I have no data on anything such as how many patrons of Arizona Charlie's Decatur drove fewer than six minutes to get there. That is the ultimate in bland slot parlor, yet a more resplendent locals place such as Sams Town or Eastside Cannery seems to offer pretty much the same odds.

So I would say that yes: locals often go to local joints but there again, its a matter of time and money invested in traveling.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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October 30th, 2010 at 11:46:27 AM permalink
Quote: kenarman

We are looking for the overtop buzz of the strip. If we wanted the quiet casino with staff and other customers we knew we could stay home.

I think many are looking for that buzz of the strip, not all. The quiet casino is indeed available by "staying home" but think how much different the water cooler talk is when you said "I went to Vegas" than "I went to nearby HappyWampum casino in Nowheresville". This is true even if the "Vegas" casino you went to is a dive or a locals, plain-vanilla type place.
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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October 30th, 2010 at 12:00:48 PM permalink
This is exactly what I'm paying for when I go to vegas. I know the house will take me in the long run, but even at $25/hand in blackjack I'm still losing less per hour than what I would spend on going to a movie.

While I know I can tone it out, I hope I never want to. It is the sole reason why I keep going back 2-4 times a year. I think I'm actually closer to toning out the gambling aspects right now. BJ and craps are my 2 main games. Both of which I have a strategy that is second nature to me now. I like this because then I can actually take in everything else while rarely affecting my gambling.
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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October 30th, 2010 at 12:09:34 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I think many are looking for that buzz of the strip, not all. The quiet casino is indeed available by "staying home" but think how much different the water cooler talk is when you said "I went to Vegas" than "I went to nearby HappyWampum casino in Nowheresville". This is true even if the "Vegas" casino you went to is a dive or a locals, plain-vanilla type place.



I agree.

Even in the case where someone wants a low key casino, Vegas is still offering things to that person that the local place back home can't. You are still probably flying to Vegas, and this alone makes it feel much more like a vacation rather than a 3 hour trip with friends.

Some of my family avoid weekends if at all possible just because they like the city but at some point it is just a bit much for them.
teddys
teddys
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October 30th, 2010 at 2:49:21 PM permalink
I think you hit the nail on the head and it brings up a question I've wanted to ask in another thread but will ask it here:

Why do so few people come back from Vegas winners?

Theoretically, there should be a good proportion of winners as opposed to losers coming back from a Vegas trip. But you always hear, "Well, one person in our group won, but the other four lost." or "We donated to the casino this time." It's purely anecdotal, but it seems like everyone loses, when a good chunk of them should win!I have a couple theories for this:

(1) They play strictly slots. Easy to be a loser, since you are bucking a 4-10% house edge and only extreme variance will put you over the top. The more people play, the better chance they have to lose!
(2) People play too much. They go to Vegas and think, "Well, I'm here in Vegas. I should gamble." Then they lose (or win). If they lose, the game is always there, so they keep playing to get their money back. If they win, they keep playing because it's so easy to win! Eventually, they expose more and more money to the churn and end up down overall. This holds true for table games as well as slots.
(3) The lure and excitement that you mentioned is a huge factor, as are the free drinks. The Strip just makes you wanna gamble, and the rules there are by and large far worse than the locals joints. That is a strike against the player.

My first trip to Vegas, I overdosed on drinking and gambling and the Strip and lost a bundle. My second trip, I did the coupon thing and me and my friend made $400 each. My third trip I overplayed "phantom" positive video poker plays and lost a bundle. My fourth trip, I finally wised up and started playing the comp game off-strip, limiting the video poker, and doing other things besides gambling. It was my best trip yet, and I kept the bankroll even. My next trip I plan to stay at a comped room at the Tuscany and gamble even less. You live, you learn -- especially with Vegas.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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October 30th, 2010 at 4:33:15 PM permalink
Do people really still go there expecting to win?

Also, what do you think the average person defines as winning?

I don't know if this is common or not, but for me winning requires that the entire trip didn't cost me anything. So for me this means I need to be up $500-600 before I can even come close to calling myself a winner. This would be 250-300 for airfair, 50-75 for resort fees and the rest for food/shows.



I would be curious to know how many people actually play with stop limits(up or down). I know everyone is different, but I actually like going on a table playing for only 30 minutes, finding myself up and then leaving because I doubled my money(generally my stop limit on BJ). Then I'll just walk around for a little bit. I have no problem sitting there for 3 hours either if I'm just not getting any massive swings.

Another strategy I've liked but found next to impossible to implement myself(my bankroll would have to be about 3 times what I take) is to play with your limit of money during the day. Anytime you cashout with more than what you put in, you take the extra(say $20 buying and cashed for $60, you would take the $40) and just put it away. You still keep the original bet and can continue to play.


It isn't like any of those are systems to winning, but for me at least, I can call coming back with 75% of the cash I went out with a possible win. :)
Mosca
Mosca
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October 30th, 2010 at 6:39:33 PM permalink
Check-in Sunday 2PM at the Bel.... a cluster, plain and simple. 20 windows open and 20 people in line at each window, and each check-in seemed to take 20 minutes. The printer jammed while printing my documents. For a 10 year old luxury hotel the procedure seemed slow and antiquated. These folks need to take lessons from Disney World. Thank god I checked out at 5:30 AM, I hate to see what that might have been like.

Generally we found casino personnel friendly and helpful. The review here has Bellagio dealers as aloof and unfriendly, but we didn't find that. In fact, they were among the most personable, best, fastest, most accurate I've played against. Special mention to Lynn and David, I'll be writing a letter. Even the dealer at M.'s craps table, who was clearly frustrated by him, was still professional and helpful, answering questions about bets and giving good advice (trying to, anyhow).

At other casinos, the experience was more spotty. I played 10 hands of 3 Card at Caesar's Monday morning; the dealer was aloof after I declined to play the "6 Card" bet. On the 10th hand, I drew A♥2♥3♥, with quarters up and a nickel bet for the dealer; nice hand, $1175 for me and $205 for her. Not even a thank you, she didn't break a smile. Just played the cards like she would if she was mucking them, except for the call of "Purple out!" Even Mrs Mosca mentioned it, that she seemed pissed about it. All I can figure is that it was a "sweating the money" situation that would bring the heat. Whatever, I had a rule to only play 10 hands, and we cashed and left, and because of her we also left the casino. Bad vibe on a great hand equals really bad vibe.

Bill's Gambling Hall; ugh. Interesting, a high tech operation made to look like a dive. Only in Vegas. Mrs lost $50 in a slot in about 3 minutes, and we left.

Paris was nice, we found the game of "Crazy 4 Poker", and I looked it up on my phone; the element of risk being only 1.09% according to WoO, I sat down. When I mentioned that I was just learning the game, surprise, surprise; the dealer quoted playing advice to me from Wizard of Odds! "Play K/Q/8/4, triple up on AA and better." He knew the tables and the odds, and endorsed and recommended to consult WoO for every game: "It'seasywizardofoddsdotcom.Youshouldnevergointoacasinowithoutlookingtherefirst." (He was a very fast talker.) We played 10 hands and left down about $50 for the session. Good dealer, even if he was kinda amped, like on meth.

We walked through the hallway to Bally's, where Mrs tried to find a machine that would let her sit a while. There was something with fishing that seemed to let us sit long enough to satisfy her. They have a "party pit" for cards, where all the dealers were dressed in football jerseys. Huh. If you got a blackjack, you got a set of beads. We sat, we got some beads, we didn't get some beads, we lost a couple hundred. Still it was fun. One dealer was good, the relief dealer was having a bad day.

Nice. Except for the first woman, I would call the atmosphere "inviting", which it should be. I liked the professionalism, the acknowledgment that the necessarily adversarial positions we were in did not mean we couldn't be friendly. I haven't run into any unfriendly dealers here in PA, but I've had some incompetent ones. And I've had actively hostile dealers in AC... Narc at the Tropicana comes to mind. This was admittedly a small sample, but the dealers were pretty good.
NO KILL I
toastcmu
toastcmu
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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October 30th, 2010 at 7:52:43 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Check-in Sunday 2PM at the Bel.... a cluster, plain and simple. 20 windows open and 20 people in line at each window, and each check-in seemed to take 20 minutes. The printer jammed while printing my documents. For a 10 year old luxury hotel the procedure seemed slow and antiquated. These folks need to take lessons from Disney World. Thank god I checked out at 5:30 AM, I hate to see what that might have been like.



Having stayed at Bel - checkout at peak times is just the inverse of your check-in experience, it's just the morning and everyone is anxious to make their flights. ;)

-B

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