petroglyph
petroglyph
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Thanks for this post from:
Hullabaloo
December 15th, 2018 at 10:15:11 AM permalink
The reason our healthcare system is like it is, is because the money powers want it like this. Billions funneled to CEO's of insurance company's who if "it were fair" would be paid about the same amount as the CEO for Costco.

Who wrote the ACA? Lobbyists and health insurance company's. Obama paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in pork to get the votes to have it pass. It passed without even being read by congress, that's where Pelosi coined the phrase, "we have to pass it to see what's in it".

They didn't even read it, before voting on it. Does that sound like a representative government? Not to me. That is the same way that our trade agreements, that are actually treaties were passed,,,,without being read. That's how we got NAFTA, the GATT. WTO, etc. etc. etc. Those treaties that in some cases supersede our constitution were foisted upon us freedom loving Americans, without even the courtesy of lubrication.

I just want the same health care that congress gives themselves. I want something like Medicare for everyone, with some kind of co pay to lesson abuses, [using ambulances as taxi's]. People need skin in the game or the hypochondriacs and the Munchausens people will plug the waiting rooms.

We supposedly have this capitalist system for "sickcare" yet we rate something like 37th in the world. A YUGE problem with the way it is is, in trade competition American manufacturers have to compete in a world where the rest of the western country's [and some of the eastern] have free healthcare. In practice Boeing has to pay for their employees healthcare, while Airbus doesn't. That is a huge disadvantage to American business's.

The new improved Medicare for all needs to have prescription pricing veto power over these insane scrip prices! I saw a few days ago some mark up, IIRC for the most common medicines can be as high as 72,000%. Epi pens went up 600% almost overnight. Our government gives extended patents on Lipitor and other common meds, and bars generic competition. It's ridiculous.

One of the reasons low income people will not go to work [thousands of workers needed] is because they will lose their healthcare.

All government workers have HQ healthcare, Vets have free healthcare. Welfare folk, indigent, illegals all get healthcare. Who's lives are crushed by not having free/cheap healthcare? The shrinking productive class. As was said above, the main reason for life destroying bankruptcy's is medical bills. Older workers could leave the workforce and make way for millenials, if they could afford healthcare.

Look what our "capitalist" system does to Dr's. It burns them out with shortened life expectancy's, from stress dealing with all this crap.

I contend that TPTB, do not want this fixed, or it wouldn't be like it is. end rant
rxwine
rxwine
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:15:59 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman



And if you think resentment of "the rich" is bad now, just wait! People scream if someone gets to move to the hear of the line at Disney resorts. How will that play? All such a system will do is set up decades more of health care battles.



LOL> That already happens. It's been happening for years. You ever notice the separate line at the players clubs at casinos for the high point earners. Right out in the open.


Happens everywhere even if you don't see it. Wake up.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
rxwine
rxwine
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:20:41 AM permalink
Express service. Often it even has a name.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:23:37 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

The reason our healthcare system is like it is, is because the money powers want it like this. Billions funneled to CEO's of insurance company's who if "it were fair" would be paid about the same amount as the CEO for Costco.



Executive pay is not really the problem and health insurance does not have a very high ROI.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:23:51 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Yup, I've suggested exactly that to people like you who keep saying you will wait months for care if it were socialized. Why shouldn't you get more if you can pay more? Nothing wrong with that. You just don't like anything that might actually work.

Only exceptions are the same as we already make here. You can'tmove ahead of emergent situations regardless of ability to pay.


Of course. If urgent treatment is required, then urgent treatment is received urgently. Only a fool or someone with more money than sense would expect to pay extra in an emergency. Private hospitals do not tend to operate Accident and Emergency Services (ER) They are geared more for routine hospital treatments.
For private medical treatment, we would normally get a referral from our NHS general practitioner. He'd do the initial consultation (generally) and might (but is unlikely to) say "Sorry but there's a two month waiting list, but you cold go private and get treated in 2 weeks.

AZD's reasoning strikes me as flawed. He seems to say that Nationalised Health services like ours are a bad idea because they will either lead to the death of private treatment and thence to long waits, or will inevitably get privatised by stealth to eventually give a 2 tier service, which he also finds to be bad. I see our combination of NHS/Private to be the best of both worlds, not the worst of both worlds. Choice. Everyone gets the treatment he needs. Some pay a premium for premium service and take pressure of the NHS as a result. NHS and private treatment may be in separate establishments, or the NHS trust may buy in service or share facilities with the private operators. E.g. Co-located hospitals might share a body scanner, with costs and time allocated appropriately. Win-Win.

Pharmacuitical companies, especially, know that with the NHS, there will be tussles over money, but a government has more bargainng power than a provincial medical practice.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:25:30 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

LOL> That already happens. It's been happening for years. You ever notice the separate line at the players clubs at casinos for the high point earners. Right out in the open.


Happens everywhere even if you don't see it. Wake up.



I see it. Difference is I am not forced to go into a casino run by the government.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:27:10 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Plus, look at places like Europe and Canada....do we REALLY want to follow their lead?



I wish we would.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:32:53 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I use the expression "acceptable quality at appropriate cost"
What's the wait time for a typical working class US person, or a non-wealthy old person, or anyone who cannot afford treatment and doesn't have 'affordable care' if he wants his hernia or cancer treated?
Do US people suffer or die because they cannot afford to even join a queue, let alone jump it?
Do US people face the stress of deciding between food or treatment?

I had exceptional medical insurance and moved to a new area. It took a few days to find a Dr. that would accept my insurance and I had to wait 4 weeks for an appt.

I had to have that appt. to get a referral to the Dr. I actually needed to see, a Dr. who could perform a spinal epidural with fluoroscopy [sp]. It took 4 weeks to see that Dr. who set me up for the epidural 2 weeks later. So for a herniated disc, steroid injection, while in a lot of pain, it took ten weeks to get an injection.

To add insult to injury, I think this guy was some kind of sadist, who rather than give the regular epidural, gave 6 facet joint injections, which take a very long needle, as they go in from the side. All without even local anesthetic.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:33:27 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

The new improved Medicare for all needs to have prescription pricing veto power over these insane scrip prices! I saw a few days ago some mark up, IIRC for the most common medicines can be as high as 72,000%. Epi pens went up 600% almost overnight. Our government gives extended patents on Lipitor and other common meds, and bars generic competition. It's ridiculous.


I reckon big Pharma is a big part of the problem, much more than other medical provision. Except for generic treatments, the big pharmaceuticals set their own absurd prices and write their own check and the poor old service user gets the tab. Only the pricing power of a nation state would stand a cat in heels chance of controlling that cost. Of course, you have lots of lobbying and you know who has skin it that game.

* Confession time: I have shares in big pharmaceuticals. OnceDear=capitalist b45t4rd.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:34:51 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear



AZD's reasoning strikes me as flawed. He seems to say that Nationalised Health services like ours are a bad idea because they will either lead to the death of private treatment and thence to long waits, or will inevitably get privatised by stealth to eventually give a 2 tier service, which he also finds to be bad. I see our combination of NHS/Private to be the best of both worlds, not the worst of both worlds. Choice. Everyone gets the treatment he needs. Some pay a premium for premium service and take pressure of the NHS as a result. NHS and private treatment may be in separate establishments, or the NHS trust may buy in service or share facilities with the private operators. E.g. Co-located hospitals might share a body scanner, with costs and time allocated appropriately. Win-Win.



You like it because it is what you know. I have seen our VA hospitals, which will bring a person to tears. I simply do not trust government. Besides the VA, I look at how they have run Indian Reservations. How they have put troops in harms way to test long term effect of radiation. Public housing. All of it is just plain awful.

Why would I want to turn health care over to them?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

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