From a tourist's perspective, where is the Northern end of The Strip?

From the 6-8-10x thread:

Quote: Nareed

I know Casino Royale looks, feels and sounds as something that ought ot be tucked away Downtown or maybe in an alley somewhere off Flamingo, but the plain fact remains it is on the Strip ;)

I'll allow that the Startosphere isn't on the Strip anymore, as the Strip pretty much now ends at the Wynncore by popular perception.

I wanted to make a comment, but decided not to de-rail that thread.

One point I was going to make was that Nareed indended to say that the border has moved southwards. But he worded it as if to say that the Stratosphere has been creeping northward late at night when nobody's watching. Hell, it's got three legs. Can't it walk? I got a good laugh out of that.

Another point was, what about Riviera, Circus Circus and Sahara? Those are also on the strip, NOT within the city limits. Stratosphere is easy to exclude since it IS within city limits. The town line is at Sahara Ave. Sahara Casino is South of the avenue, outside city limits.

For reporting purposes, the Stratosphere is considered part of Downtown - even though it is 1.6 miles from Freemont St. By comparison, 1.6 miles in the other direction, passing Sahara, Circus, Riviera and Encore, is Wynn.


So this got me thinking....

What do most people consider to be the Northern end of "The Strip?"

Most tourist maps of the strip area include the Stratosphere.

But is Nareed right? Have the Stratosphere, along with Riviera, Circus Circus and Sahara, become locals resorts, thanks to the empty lots north of Encore?


Then again, since it's set so far back, maybe even the Wynn is excluded from "The Strip"....


So, as a tourist, where does the Strip end?

Can't really speak for a general tourist. But I suppose I'm a tourist when I visit Las Vegas. And I never venture beyond Encore.

As A long haul tourist, for me, the Strip starts at the Mandalay Bay and ends at the Strat. Anything on that the Deuce passed between these points (on its original route) was the Strip to me.

If you had asked me several years ago, I would have probably said the Strip ended at the Sahara. However, with the demise of the Frontier and Stardust, it is too far from the Encore to the next casino north, the Riviera, to be a considered a consistent row of the casinos. However, that begs the question, how should the Riviera, Circus Circus, Sahara, and perhaps the Stratosphere be defined geographically, if they are not on the Strip any longer? How about the "mediocre mile" casinos.

I would agree with the Wizard (surprise!) and say that the border of the Strip has been creeping southward ever since the Stardust and Frontier were imploded. It is not definitively there yet, which is why we are disputing it, but it is moving down. The Wynncore is not really walkable to CC/Riveria (you have to pass the big condo complexes and vacant lots), and nobody wants to walk to CC after they've been in Wynn anyways. So there is a clear disconnect between the "Mediocre 4" and the rest of the strip. The Strat is also pretty far from the Sahara/Riv but the four make a pretty convenient grouping based on character and price. The Strat really wanted to be a strip hotel but it's location and tackiness really hurt it. I think it has a lot going for it, however.

For casual visitors I'd definitely say the Strip is Mandalay Bay -> Wynn+Encore. Not only is that the continuous walkable stretch of casinos, but it's also what I'd want a cab to drive if I wanted first time visitors to get a full overview. The "mediocre mile" is as good of a term as any for the spots between the Wynn+Encore and downtown, but functionally I'd just refer to them as "other casinos that happen to be on the way to downtown" and not really functionally different from the Hilton, Hard Rock, etc.

To me the Palms and Rio are trickier, since I consider them closer to the strip casinos is terms of a scale and quality, and yet they're certainly not on the strip itself.

From the POV of the tourist, I have always thought of Sahara as the northern border of the Strip. The Strat is on Las Vegas Boulevard, but to my mind, it isn't on the Strip any more than, say, South Point is. (I actually think of the Strat as being in "Fort Apache", that no-man's-land of cheap housing, drug emporiums, and running gunbattles that separates downtown and the Strip.)

The Riv, Sahara, and CC definitely qualify, on the basis of history if nothing else. That section of the Strip, in the 70s and 80s, was the bargain, people-with-families, low-roller zone. It still has that feel today.

Different purposes.
For taxation, you bet the Stratosphere is downtown! Its actually inside city limits and that mayor sure ain't gonna let the Strat out of its clutches.
But in reality, The Strat is the north end of the strip.
Even though the north end of the strip is now in a sort of construction-hiatus induced limbo. Not much happens there during the day, ain't nothin' happening there at night.
Sahara is fine as a fleabag joint for locals (well is a bit more actually) and in many ways it may think of itself as a geographical marker but in reality the Strat is the "border" despite its being in a separate taxation zone for property taxes and for some sort of other tax too.

The M is technically on Las Vegas Blvd but you sure wouldn't call it "The Strip" It is usage that rules not political designations.

Quote: FleaStiff

Different purposes.
For taxation, you bet the Stratosphere is downtown! Its actually inside city limits and that mayor sure ain't gonna let the Strat out of its clutches.
But in reality, The Strat is the north end of the strip.
Even though the north end of the strip is now in a sort of construction-hiatus induced limbo. Not much happens there during the day, ain't nothin' happening there at night.
Sahara is fine as a fleabag joint for locals (well is a bit more actually) and in many ways it may think of itself as a geographical marker but in reality the Strat is the "border" despite its being in a separate taxation zone for property taxes and for some sort of other tax too.

The M is technically on Las Vegas Blvd but you sure wouldn't call it "The Strip" It is usage that rules not political designations.

The gaming commission includes Stratosphere revenue under Downtown Las Vegas.
Palace Station (on Sahara Avenue to the West of I15) is also inside the city limits of Las Vegas,
but is included with the Las Vegas strip when they report revenue. Sahara, Riviera, Hilton, and Circus Circus are also
considered "strip" properties by the gaming comission.

Palms, Rio, Palace Station and Gold Coast are included in the strip revenue, but Gold Coast is included with the
"Rest of Clark county" revenue.

=========
Many tourists consider "Wynn Encore" the practical northern boundary of the tourist area. Legally "Wynn Encore" is the
northern end of "Paradise, Nevada" (Paradise is the largest unincorporated community in the USA). Paradise was formed
in 1952-53 so that the land could not be abosorbed by the city of Las Vegas (and taxed by the city or governed by its ordinances).

Since there is no legal definition of what people casually call "the strip" some people include the Stratosphere.
I have even heard people use "southern strip" to refer to South Point or M Resort (which are on Las Vegas Blvd.).

================
Informally, tourists often say that the Vegas strip now stops at the Wynn Encore. The Wynn Encore does go to the northern
boundary of "Paradise, Nevada" but most tourists are not conscious of the names of "census designated places".

Paradise was formed in 1952-53 to prevent the casinos from being taxed by the city of Las Vegas. At the 2000 census,
Paradise was the largest unincorporated community in the United States.

"M resort" and "Green Valley Ranch" are part of "Boulder Strip" because they are inside the Henderson City limits.
Henderson has a strange shape.

"South Point" and "Silverton Casino Lodge" are lumped in with the "Rest of Clark County".

The head of the Gaming Comission said that they have to put the casino into one category or another when it opens.
Sometimes the category doesn't seem appropriate after a few years, but they don't like to change them because
of historical comparisons.

They did move "Wild Wild West" and "Ellis Island Casino" to the Vegas strip category last year, but they have a
very small revenue so the numbers didn't change much. I think the gaming comission wanted to get a jump on
the possibility that they would be torn down and replaced with larger casinos.

Stratosphere and Circus Circus were downgraded to [under $72 million per year in gaming revenue]
category in fiscal year 2009. The category is used for statistical purposes, and it means that the casino
owner is legally allowed to considerably reduce the amount of cash (per table and per slot machine) that
they must keep on the premise. For example a blackjack table is reduced from $15K per table to $10K per table.
A craps table is reduced from $30K to $20K per table (and so forth).

Riviera and Sahara are also under $72 million. The Hilton and Palace Station remain over $72 million (for now).

As a tourist (only five visits in my lifetime, staying at Circus Circus, Caesars, TI, Sahara, and P Ho), the political boundaries or gaming commission boundaries don't concern me. When I talk about "the strip", I've always considered it as going from Mandalay Bay on the south end up to the Stratosphere in the north. When I ride the Deuce downtown, I consider "no mans land" to start when we pass the Strat.

I'd classify the south strip as Mandalay up to and including New York New York and MGM Grand. The center strip is P Ho and Monte Carlo up to Wynncore and Fashion Show Mall. The north strip is the Riviera, Slots-O-Fun, Circus Circus, Sahara, Stratosphere, and the Fontainebleau shell. I've considered the south strip the place to go when you want to focus your time in one or two casinos for the better part of a day, the center strip is where to go when you want to casino hop, and the north strip is where you stay when you want a cheap room but will spend the day gambling elsewhere. When I stayed at Sahara, the shuttle driver advised me not to walk to the Stratosphere after dark, which confirmed my thoughts that it's the seedy part of the strip.

The Hilton, Rio, Sands, M, Hooters, Ellis Island, and Hard Rock aren't on the strip. Is the "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign on the strip? I'd have a hard time saying it wasn't, but it's further south than Mandalay Bay. If you include Mandalay, wouldn't you have to include the Happi Motel and the Motel 8 across the boulevard from Mandalay?

I've always considered the Stratosphere to be at the northern end of the strip just as old timers considered Vegas World to be that boundary.

Speaking of city limits, I wonder how many tourists have heard of Winchester or Paradise.

As someone who's been to Vegas only 3 times, I've always considered Wynncore the end of the strip. I've always felt that Vegas can be divided into Strip, Downtown, and everything else, since you need a car to hit everywhere else. ;)

-B

Let's talk about two different perspectives: Geography and transportation.

Geographically, the Strip goes from Mandalay Bay to the Wynncore. Why? Because that's the stretch of Las vegas Blvd. where casinos run near contigous to one another. Past the Wynncore to the north there are large swaths of empty space.

Now, when you take transportation into account things change a bit. If you have a car or rent one, then the whole of Vegas, henderson, Boulder Strip, Downtown, etc is open to you. The limits, if any, will be traffic and convenience.

If you rely on buses you can still reach an area well to the sides of the Strip, plus the areas past Wynncore and Downtown, without much trouble. going to the Boulder Strip, though possible is not very convenient. I haven't done it, but I estimate over 45 minutes one way, maybe more.

Then there's the Monorail. If you rely on that, then the Strip still ends at the Wynncore but it includes the Sahara. Why? Because Sahara has a monorail station at the back (the north terminal, in fact). If you get on at the MGM Grand, then reaching the Sahara is as easy as reaching the Flamingo, and easier than going to the Venetian and the Wynncore.

Of course the Monorail's expensive conpared to the bus system, and it's not as flexible. Plus the hotel terminals tend to be far, far away from the casinos (the notable exception is the Hilton).

Quote: pacomartin

...Palms, Rio, Palace Station and Gold Coast are included in the strip revenue, but Gold Coast is included with the
"Rest of Clark county" revenue.

I had a little trouble with that paragraph. I assume there is a typo somewhere, or double counting.

Quote: Doc

I had a little trouble with that paragraph. I assume there is a typo somewhere, or double counting.

It should have read
...Palms, Rio, Palace Station and Gold Coast are included in the strip revenue, but Orleans is included with the
"Rest of Clark county" revenue.

It was a brain fart.

The strip is essentially a state of mind. When the name was adopted there was no Stratosphere so it meant the casinos
outside of the city limits. The only official definition is the one used by the Gaming Commision.

As a tourist, I would say Northernmost property on the "Strip" is Stratosphere. It is big, over the top (on the outside at least), and most importantly, on Las Vegas Blvd., which separates it from the International/Hilton, Palms / Rio, Stations .befitting a "Strip" property. Someday the Eschelon skeleton will get some meat, and fill in the void. The Fontainebleau could open in a few years too, so the big holes no longer separate the completed "Large" properties.

I was thinking about this old thread while in Vegas in May, and decided, for no particular reason, that the "strip zone" should be the area where it's legal to walk with an open alcohol container.

I happened to find a policeman on the strip, told him about the thread, and asked. His first reaction was that there's no specific definition of the strip's boundries, but agreed that the airport, even though it borders the strip, it should be considered part of the strip. He also understood why tourists would consider the Strat part of the strip, even though it's the only "strip" casino actually in Las Vegas.

But as far as the open container law goes, he said it applies to the entire county. So no help there either.

Quote: pacomartin

The only official definition is the one used by the Gaming Commision.

Apparently there's another definition - one which may / should have a very specific (although probably easily changed) border. And it doesn't surprise me that the policeman I spoke to didn't know about it.


Today's Anthony Curtis' Las Vegas Advisor QOD discusses why the Stardust lot never had an 8 hour slot trailer.

FYI: When a casino closes, periodically (once per year?) a truck trailer full of slot machines camps out for the day to satisfy an odd rule to keep the casino license from expiring. It's not uncommon for them to not see a single customer.

The answer indicated that the Strip is designated a "special gaming zone." As such, there is no slot trailer requirement.

While I would bet that the northern end of this "special gaming zone" is the city limits of Sahara Avenue, anybody know where to find the other borders?

Quote: Ayecarumba

As a tourist, I would say Northernmost property on the "Strip" is Stratosphere. It is big, over the top (on the outside at least), and most importantly, on Las Vegas Blvd., which separates it from the International/Hilton, Palms / Rio, Stations .befitting a "Strip" property. Someday the Eschelon skeleton will get some meat, and fill in the void. The Fontainebleau could open in a few years too, so the big holes no longer separate the completed "Large" properties.

Well the commission started keeping their records in the 1950's. Originally the Strip clearly meant outside of the city limits. But by the 1970's they included Palace Station, which is inside city limits. Of course, the city limits changed expanded several times, so it may not have been inside when it opened. The decision to put Stratosphere in the downtown section may have been partly political. Since by the mid 1990's, the downtown numbers were being dwarfed by those of the strip, the mayor may have wanted to get credit for the Strat.
It doesn't explain why Palm Place, Rio would be considered strip hotels, and Orleans would not. The Commission may regret some of the definitions, but they are reluctant to change them much in order to keep continuity.

People seem very interested in disputing official definitions of areas. As far as I am concerned the boundaries are always going to be vague. What matters is how the official governing body calculates statistics. With the casino commission it is always problematic since they don't list which casinos are in which districts.


For example if you say New York Metropolitan Division has a population of 11.7 million people they are referring to the 11 yellow counties on the map. You can argue forever, if they should include Newark NJ instead of Putnam County, NY, but all that matters is the official definition. The other numbers you hear for the population of Greater New York are 19 million and 22 million , which refers to 24 and 31 counties respectfully.

I still consider myself a Las Vegas tourist even though I'm looking to eventually retire there. I think the strip ends Downtown.

At the end of the rainbow :)

The Strip ends for me when my wallet is empty.