Racist or not?
Poll
 | 17 votes (44.73%) | ||
| | 21 votes (55.26%) |
38 members have voted
Quote: TigerWuWhy is trolling itself not considered "crossing the line" on this forum?
It is.
“No bullying/trolling: Members are expected to act like ladies and gentlemen. Members may not be overly divisive or abusive to another member. This includes starting a thread only the for purpose of attacking another member. (Added 2/24/2012). This also includes threats against another member. (added 9/3/12)”
Under the forum rules if AZduffman is trolling as per a mods decision than I don’t see how Romes gets the only suspension for stating the obvious.
Quote: PokerGrinderIt is.
“No bullying/trolling: Members are expected to act like ladies and gentlemen. Members may not be overly divisive or abusive to another member. This includes starting a thread only the for purpose of attacking another member. (Added 2/24/2012). This also includes threats against another member. (added 9/3/12)”
Under the forum rules if AZduffman is trolling as per a mods decision than I don’t see how Romes gets the only suspension for stating the obvious.
Where are all the righties saying the mods unfairly suspend only them?
Quote: darkozWhere are all the righties saying the mods unfairly suspend only them?
We be hiding right now. :-)
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: RomesThis is why you can't have any kind of meaningful discussion with this TROLL. He screams to present data, source facts, cite things... and then when you do he just goes "jabber jabber jabber" and ignores literal facts and numbers.Quote: AZDuffman...
jabber jabber jabber
TROLL. BAN THE TROLL.
I've been mulling this one over. Yeah, AZD has been trolling you and others in this thread, in my personal opinion. But I can't see anywhere he has crossed the line, administratively speaking. You, unfortunately, did.
3 days. Personal insult.
Not sure if I am allowed to comment on this but I dont see the insult. Definately not enough for a suspect soon just my two cents. That being said I agree with a large portion of what AZ says
Quote: TigerWuWhy is trolling itself not considered "crossing the line" on this forum?
It is. But. Politics has become a troll-fest. This thread was split off by me to try and have a reasoned conversation by adults. Silly me, huh?
AZD knows how to push my buttons, whether he does it on purpose or not. So, as I said before, I personally consider him a huge troll. On politics, the biggest one here of any side. But, reading impartially, he is consistent in his alternate reality, and we do uphold freedom of speech here, if it doesn't contain personal insults, profanity, or obscenity. So while I would like to shut him down, he hasn't done anything yet that I could justify suspending him for. I have some discretion, and the time may yet come, but it hasn't so far.
Quote: PokerGrinder
Under the forum rules if AZduffman is trolling as per a mods decision than I don’t see how Romes gets the only suspension for stating the obvious.
I am not quite sure where I am trolling. Romes seems to have a problem with my position on the question of the thread. "Is it racist to exclude a person from your dating pool based on race." He thinks it is. My position is:
1. It isn't.
2 I don't care if you think it is, I feel it isn't.
3. Please tell my why exclusion based on race is different than any other criteria (age, height, etc.)
I don't wrap my thoughts around if someone or something might be racist. Some people do. That group tends to not be able to stand people who do not. The thread drifted way, way off-topic, which I apologize for any of my fault.
That being said, I constructively laid out my issues with muslims in non-muslim society, which I have seen causing many integration problems. I kept getting replies of "Christians kill people, too" and "99% of violence is white males!" When it was pointed out that muslims are in fact way over-represented in the US Prison system and a cite of the 99% well just more selective factoids.
The funny thing is, for all the dislike of racism, Romes replies with quote after quote against whites! For all the complaints of "islamaphobia" we get complaints about Christians. IOW, a bit hard for me to take the racism/islamaphobia comment seriously from a person who does that.
"Jabber jabber" is not trolling. It is telling someone they are not making their point, nor making any points with what they posted. It is saying, "if you want to continue discussing this, address the topic or I am done here." I was done there. I am done here.
This thread is way off-topic and white-hot. I would suggest management close it.
If someone who thinks the use of race is in dating is racist can answer why that is different than any other criteria, I will hang around. If folks stay off topic well see ya in the funny papers.
Quote: troopscottQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: RomesThis is why you can't have any kind of meaningful discussion with this TROLL. He screams to present data, source facts, cite things... and then when you do he just goes "jabber jabber jabber" and ignores literal facts and numbers.Quote: AZDuffman...
jabber jabber jabber
TROLL. BAN THE TROLL.
I've been mulling this one over. Yeah, AZD has been trolling you and others in this thread, in my personal opinion. But I can't see anywhere he has crossed the line, administratively speaking. You, unfortunately, did.
3 days. Personal insult.
Not sure if I am allowed to comment on this but I dont see the insult. Definately not enough for a suspect soon just my two cents. That being said I agree with a large portion of what AZ says
Not my decision re:troll. That standard was set a few years ago. It is a suspendable offense to call someone a troll. As Face said, a snap call.
Sorry to hear you agree with a large portion. For me, his political posts are like Lucy from Peanuts describing the world. He sees something and draws a ridiculous, self-serving conclusion, does this constantly until he weaves a web of conspiracy, misogyny, bigotry, and dissatisfaction. It's pure crap.
But some people buy into it for some reason, seems like mostly because it always blames someone else for what's wrong in his world. And those people are always gay, women, non-white, and/or liberal, Liberal being "anybody who doesn't agree with me".
Quote: beachbumbabs
AZD knows how to push my buttons, whether he does it on purpose or not. So, as I said before, I personally consider him a huge troll.
So, are you going to suspend yourself here?
At the least, I publicly request you recuse yourself from moderating on my posts and refer it to another mod.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: beachbumbabs
AZD knows how to push my buttons, whether he does it on purpose or not. So, as I said before, I personally consider him a huge troll.
So, are you going to suspend yourself here?
At the least, I publicly request you recuse yourself from moderating on my posts and refer it to another mod.
I have to agree. Once you express an
extreme bias, you have to recuse yourself
from moderating that person. You can't
see him clearly anymore.
I do like her comment about 'alternate
universe', meaning there are people who
live as if Hillary won. And will be instated
as pres when Trump is impeached.
You're the assistant to the regional manager.Quote: Face/unshun
To ban is to official prohibit. Were I to say "ONM, you are officially prohibited from posting for 3 days", it would be a proper English sentence that explains the action in question precisely. Ergo, ban is proper. I agree that suspend (to temporarily prevent) is perhaps more common, especially when considering internet forum parlance, and it might even be more appropriate, as it clears up any confusion over temp v indef.
But nah.
/reshun
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: beachbumbabs
AZD knows how to push my buttons, whether he does it on purpose or not. So, as I said before, I personally consider him a huge troll.
So, are you going to suspend yourself here?
At the least, I publicly request you recuse yourself from moderating on my posts and refer it to another mod.
Request denied. I've treated you more than fairly.
Quote: TomGIt could be racism, but more likely a closet gay.Quote: RonCSo someone at 19 does not find someone that is not from a certain group attractive. That makes then racist?
Upon further thought:
A 19-year-old guy says he won't date outside his race. Most likely scenario is he has near zero chance with any lady and is trying to protect his own self-image. Second most likely is he is gay. Third most likely is he is racist.
Quote: TomGUpon further thought:
A 19-year-old guy says he won't date outside his race. Most likely scenario is he has near zero chance with any lady and is trying to protect his own self-image. Second most likely is he is gay. Third most likely is he is racist.
I disagree. Maybe he is good looking, straight, but his family is racist and he doesn't want to subject himself or her to the family tension. He could just be weak.
Quote: TomGUpon further thought:
A 19-year-old guy says he won't date outside his race. Most likely scenario is he has near zero chance with any lady and is trying to protect his own self-image. Second most likely is he is gay. Third most likely is he is racist.
Would it be different if he said he does not date women more then 5 years older than he is? Or taller?
Why is race different than any other attribute?
Quote: AZDuffmanWould it be different if he said he does not date women more then 5 years older than he is? Or taller?
Why is race different than any other attribute?
There are attractive people of all races. If a person is not attracted to anyone from a particular race, there’s something in that person that is racist.
There can be lots of different reasons for not wanting to start a relationship with someone, so I don’t think that is as good of a criteria than simple physical attraction.
Quote: FinsRuleThere are attractive people of all races. If a person is not attracted to anyone from a particular race, there’s something in that person that is racist.
There can be lots of different reasons for not wanting to start a relationship with someone, so I don’t think that is as good of a criteria than simple physical attraction.
With grave hesitation I am posting in this thread. Honest question based on the above reasoning: if a person is not attracted to anyone of a particular gender, is that person sexist?
Quote: FinsRuleThere are attractive people of all races. If a person is not attracted to anyone from a particular race, there’s something in that person that is racist.
That is really not an answer. All you are saying is "because it is racist!"
I am asking for the "why."
Why is "race" a different qualification than any other qualification the person may have? Why is race different than saying you don't want to date really tall or short women?
Quote: unJonWith grave hesitation I am posting in this thread. Honest question based on the above reasoning: if a person is not attracted to anyone of a particular gender, is that person sexist?
By the logic pattern being used it might make them a homophobe?
I guess you’re arguing that being shallow is different than racist.
Not sure how to argue that you’re wrong, but I think you’re wrong.
Quote: FinsRuleIf I showed someone a picture of 100 women - 6 feet or taller, and someone said none of them were attractive, then they would have some weird hangup too.
I guess you’re arguing that being shallow is different than racist.
No, I am arguing that there is nothing wrong with having any kind of standard in dating.
Quote:Not sure how to argue that you’re wrong, but I think you’re wrong.
I think this is because while you feel deeply that racism is "wrong" you cannot come up with a logical reason that race is any kind of different than any other reason a person may or may not want to date someone when pressed. Saul Goodman.
Challenge remains. To all others to give a reason why race is different than any other standard/qualification/whatever-you-want-to-call in who you want to date.
Quote: beachbumbabsSpeaking of shallow thought processes, what were you thinking when you called SOOPOO a moron?
3 days. Personal insult.
Whoa. What? Wait a minute. Where did I called anyone in specific "moron"?
To interpret my post here as if I'm referring to the OP in specific when I say "you" requires a really strong stretch or lacking any logic.
See the OP. He does not call anyone racist there. He simply asks a question. So how could I want to call him moron for calling me racist when he never did that? You never asked yourself obviously.
It's a generic "you" as in "you who chooses to call me racist for that whoever you are"
I mean, I know I'm not a native speaker and my grammar and sentence structure can be confusing at times, but I honestly think that 9/10 people will NOT conclude what you did conclude when reading my post.
I'd take a break from moderating if I were you, this was a really badly informed decision on your part.
P.S. plus I don't know the OP, never have communicated with him and never have insulted anyone here, how did you went to such conclusion is really beyond me
Quote: FinsRuleI’m not talking about dating. I’m talking about attraction. I’ve said that several times.
That is fine. I do not see a difference and am not making one. Yes, you could say a woman too older is attractive but you would not date, but I am not going on that here nor is it the theme of the thread.
Multiple things in attraction can be deal-killer turnoffs. I maintain race is no different than any other one. Some races I have no attraction to.
Quote: RSI don't think rawtuff was calling SOOPOO a moron, but speaking in general terms. I read it as a generic you, not referring to him directly.
It was exactly that and I think it's fairly obvious what I mean.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat is fine. I do not see a difference and am not making one. Yes, you could say a woman too older is attractive but you would not date, but I am not going on that here nor is it the theme of the thread.
Multiple things in attraction can be deal-killer turnoffs. I maintain race is no different than any other one. Some races I have no attraction to.
Fair enough. Then I would consider you a racist.
Here's the definition of racism:
"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
So, you believe that a certain race is inferior to others based on the characteristic of attractiveness.
I think everyone can agree that this means you're a racist. Glad that's settled.
Quote: FinsRuleFair enough. Then I would consider you a racist.
Here's the definition of racism:
"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
So, you believe that a certain race is inferior to others based on the characteristic of attractiveness.
I think everyone can agree that this means you're a racist. Glad that's settled.
Sigh. I really didn’t want to post again, but above is a bit of sophistry IMO. Here we go, FinsRule please point out why the following is different:
Fair enough. Then I would consider you a racistsexist.
Here's the definition of racismsexism:
"the belief that all members of each racegender possess characteristics or abilities specific to that racegender, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another racegender or racesgenders."
So, you believe that a certain racegender is inferior to others based on the characteristic of attractiveness.
I think everyone can agree that this means you're a racistsexist. Glad that's settled.
Quote: AZDuffmanChallenge remains. To all others to give a reason why race is different than any other standard/qualification/whatever-you-want-to-call in who you want to date.
As far as I'm concerned it is not any different. But it doesn't get anyone off the hook. It's just there is no standard for judging people for personal purposes. Certainly no legal standard.
I'd probably call it racial bias, if the most one is saying is they are not attracted to another race, but I'd still consider that a cousin of racism. However , If you won't date another race because you think they are inferior, than that's full blown racism. But like I said, you're free to do that in dating for personal choice without legal repercussions.
If someone wants to pretend they are not a thief because the only things they stole is a pencil, sorry you're still a thief. No, you're not a bank robber. But you're still some category of thief. A very minor one, unless you've been taking big hauls at your job at the pencil factory. Likewise there is minor racism here, IMO
I'm taking a page of what FrGamble might say about sinners. They're everywhere. Doesn't mean everyone should embrace and practice the worst of it. And when you do you should be called on it.
Im not gonna get into an argument about homosexuality right now. If anyone wants to take this up, feel free.
Quote: FinsRuleFair enough. Then I would consider you a racist.
Here's the definition of racism:
"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
So, you believe that a certain race is inferior to others based on the characteristic of attractiveness.
I think everyone can agree that this means you're a racist. Glad that's settled.
Settled? I think it is more you are taking your ball and running home. You have yet to answer why fining someone not attractive based on race is different than any other reason.
HINT: You cannot use the word "racism" or "racist" in your reason if you want to make a valid point.
BTW: In the past I've been given three days in solitary for calling someone a racist, so tread careful.
Quote: EvenBob
I do like her comment about 'alternate
universe', meaning there are people who
live as if Hillary won.
AKA, The Conservative Media.
Quote: AZDuffmanSettled? I think it is more you are taking your ball and running home. You have yet to answer why fining someone not attractive based on race is different than any other reason.
HINT: You cannot use the word "racism" or "racist" in your reason if you want to make a valid point.
BTW: In the past I've been given three days in solitary for calling someone a racist, so tread careful.
Ok, so the discussion is different than I thought it was. I defined the word racist because that’s what I thought we were talking about. It was the OP’s question.
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking now. Of course if I can’t find anyone who is 90 years old or older attractive, that’s different than race because it’s two different characteristics.
So I guess I’m done posting on this because I think I satisfactorily answered the question of whether it’s racist or not.
If that means you “win” the argument, then congratulations.
Quote: unJonSigh. I really didn’t want to post again, but above is a bit of sophistry IMO. Here we go, FinsRule please point out why the following is different:
Fair enough. Then I would consider you a racistsexist.
Here's the definition of racismsexism:
"the belief that all members of each racegender possess characteristics or abilities specific to that racegender, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another racegender or racesgenders."
So, you believe that a certain racegender is inferior to others based on the characteristic of attractiveness.
I think everyone can agree that this means you're a racistsexist. Glad that's settled.
I have to disagree in the equivalence of this argument in this context.
The ancestral point of dating is to try out other people for mating compatibility. The default is heterosexual activity for propagation of the species. I'm not casting aspersions on gays here, just saying that that coupling will not reproduce, any more than barren women or sterile men will, as a practical matter.
Skin color does not matter in ability to reproduce. Height or weight don't, either. Sex of partner does. So, within the conversation about who to date, it is not sexist to look within only one gender for reproductive mating.
If a person is not answering the primal urge to reproduce, then gender doesn't matter at all either in selecting a partner.
Quote: FinsRuleOk, so the discussion is different than I thought it was. I defined the word racist because that’s what I thought we were talking about. It was the OP’s question.
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking now. Of course if I can’t find anyone who is 90 years old or older attractive, that’s different than race because it’s two different characteristics.
So I guess I’m done posting on this because I think I satisfactorily answered the question of whether it’s racist or not.
If that means you “win” the argument, then congratulations.
You said you think it is "racist." You never said why it is different. Right here you said you might have a standard on age. You admit they are different. Still, I have not heard why one is bad and one is OK, again, without using the word "racist."
I asked you to basically replace the word "racist" with "different."
"Is it 'different' to not find Black women attractive than to not find short women attractive? Why? (without using the word "racist.")
But if you are done, anyone else can answer.
Quote: FinsRuleFair enough. Then I would consider you a racist.
Here's the definition of racism:
"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
So, you believe that a certain race is inferior to others based on the characteristic of attractiveness.
I think everyone can agree that this means you're a racist. Glad that's settled.
Just one of the problems with your argument - acts of racism are actually criminally prosecuted in many countries even just a racists remark, here is an example of an internet comment leading to a sentence:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/05/30/man-charged-over-vile-racist-abuse-of-senator-nova-peris_a_21385914/
So, by arguing that those who do not find equally attractive people of all races are racists themselves, you are effectively arguing that they should be viewed, (both personally and legally!) as criminal offenders and be prosecuted as the man from the link. For not dating different races. That sounds reasonable?
Another thing is the very core of your argument is as flawed as it possibly can. There is no way you think for real all races are equally attractive in every other race's eyes as long as they're not racists, that just has to be dishonest. A pygmy tribal people will never find Dutch people in equal proportions as attractive as their own and vice versa for example. A Chinese woman will often find white men more attractive than a fellow Chinese man, but definitely not so in regards to African men, are Chinese women racists towards black people, but then racists towards their own people in favor of white people? Your whole premise just doesn't make sense on so many levels.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: beachbumbabs
AZD knows how to push my buttons, whether he does it on purpose or not. So, as I said before, I personally consider him a huge troll.
So, are you going to suspend yourself here?
At the least, I publicly request you recuse yourself from moderating on my posts and refer it to another mod.
Request denied. I've treated you more than fairly.
I find great humor in that reaction.
Perhaps you should use some restraint and not calling him something that others of us would get suspended for saying about him where we not in green.
You can put together plenty of word salad to say it without saying it outright like you did.
Go swim in the Indian River for three days.
Just kidding...but hold yourself to a higher standard than you hold others to as a moderator.
Racism: “That person’s bad (or I’m better) because of their race (and/or my race).”
Sexism: “That person’s bad (or I’m better) because of their sex (and/or my sex).”
You can play with all your BS technicalities all you want. I don’t care what Webster has to say on the matter, we all know what sexism and racism is.
If someone doesn’t find someone of a different race attractive, that could be racist or it could be that person doesn’t find that race attractive. It’s the underlying reason why that matters. Just like if you got in a fight with a black guy — did you get in a fight because he was talking s***, or because you hate blacks? One’s racist, one’s not.
You marry a spouse of your race. You have one kid. You divorce because of irreconcilable differences. Your former spouse gets married to a person of a different race and has another kid. When the two kids are 5 and 7 your spouse and her husband get killed in a accident. You're the only close relative besides the guy's 100 year old grandmother.
What's the right thing to do? Are you going to keep the kids together? Are you going to teach them to treat races differently or one is better than the other?
Quote: rxwineJust for fun here's another scenario.
You marry a spouse of your race. You have one kid. You divorce because of irreconcilable differences. Your former spouse gets married to a person of a different race and has another kid. When the two kids are 5 and 7 your spouse and her husband get killed in a accident. You're the only close relative besides the guy's 100 year old grandmother.
What's the right thing to do? Are you going to keep the kids together? Are you going to teach them to treat races differently or one is better than the other?
See this is exactly why I think the judging based on the OP's question is wrong. I answered No, of course not for the OP. I am attracted to some races and wouldn't date outside those two. That isn't racist no matter how many SJWs say it is.
Now, for Rx's scenario, I would not hesitate to take in both. To say otherwise would be a bit heartless. Would it be racist? I lean towards yes, but I am not as quick to slap that label onto people as others.
Quote: FinsRuleWhy does the race matter at all in that scenario????? This is crazy.
Yeah, I dont see how race would factor either. I may have a hard time taking in the sibling due to raw feelings of raising the kid of the guy my wife ended up with after she left me.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhy is race different than any other attribute?
I would never date a black woman because
you'd have to be involved with every member
of her family.
My daughter got an apt in a complex that
was about 25% black. Right next door to
her, on the same landing, an older black
couple moved in. Uh oh, I told her. It's
not them you have to worry about, it's
their grown kids.
Within a month a daughter and baby moved
in. Shortly after, here comes a brother. After
that, daughters BF moves in and is dealing
drugs out of the apt at 3am. Bang bang on
the door every night.
So she learned her lesson and moved out. The
black girl you date might be wonderful, but I
guarantee she has relatives who will hate your
guts and let you know it. It's called living in
the real world and not the world Lefties make
up for you.
Quote: VCUSkyhawkYeah, I dont see how race would factor either. I may have a hard time taking in the sibling due to raw feelings of raising the kid of the guy my wife ended up with after she left me.
Yes, that’s definitely the issue here.
Quote: EvenBob
So she learned her lesson and moved out. The
black girl you date might be wonderful, but I
guarantee she has relatives who will hate your
guts and let you know it. It's called living in
the real world and not the world Lefties make
up for you.
C'mon, Bob, you know people in the same family and race who can't stand having Thanksgiving dinner together because of fallouts in past years. What real world you live in? I've never figured that out.
Quote: rxwineC'mon, Bob, you know people in the same family and race who can't stand having Thanksgiving dinner together
Yeah, but they don't hate me for
my race and want to do awful
things to me because I'm dating
somebody in their family.
This is the most sensible post in this thread.Quote: RSYou can conjure up whatever the hell arguments you want based on arbitrary definitions. That doesn’t make you right, though. The bottom line is this —
Racism: “That person’s bad (or I’m better) because of their race (and/or my race).”
Sexism: “That person’s bad (or I’m better) because of their sex (and/or my sex).”
You can play with all your BS technicalities all you want. I don’t care what Webster has to say on the matter, we all know what sexism and racism is.
If someone doesn’t find someone of a different race attractive, that could be racist or it could be that person doesn’t find that race attractive. It’s the underlying reason why that matters. Just like if you got in a fight with a black guy — did you get in a fight because he was talking s***, or because you hate blacks? One’s racist, one’s not.
