StricklyAP/WizardofNothing
Quote: KeeneoneI may have missed it, but who was the op of this now deleted thread?
Is there a punishment coming for violation of the forum rules?
I am not going to ban him for the creation of that thread. I don't believe that the creator thought he was violating any rules.
Quote: MaxPen
Have you ever done anything with Jeff or done any business with him?
Asked and answered. I certainly never met anyone else with WoN besides Darkoz.
Quote:Have you ever done anything with Jeff or done any business with him before and after hearing from other's about his scamming? If so what are you doing with him? Has he ever done anything regarding you that you felt was underhanded, sneaky or anything to that affect? If so what?
I do not currently have any business with him. Many AP plays are, "Sneaky," in one way or another and I am not going to discuss specific plays. Is getting players cards from people, "Sneaky?" I know many AP's who have done that, should I list all of them?
Quote: Mission146I do not currently have any business with him. Many AP plays are, "Sneaky," in one way or another and I am not going to discuss specific plays. Is getting players cards from people, "Sneaky?" I know many AP's who have done that, should I list all of them?
Just my opinion for whatever it’s worth. Maybe you should have stuck with your word to stop further comment.
Not sure what you are saying but it seems like you are digging a deeper hole. Are you comparing what others have done with cards to what WoN is accused of by multiple people? Are you threatening to out them for making business transactions that were agreed upon by both parties? Is this a backhanded defense of WoN?
Do you not believe Dancer’s story happened exactly as he listed it? Regardless of it was remedied later, I think we would both agree Bob did everything possible resolve it before posting multiple stories of it. The story about the car shows a pattern of theft. And there are others who have been taken by WoN who are not speaking up.
This entire situation stinks and the stench is on multiple people here.
I am not afraid to say I have met you, like you and know you have had some bad situations happen to you. And while it may be easy to say, and I have no clue of your employment situation with the owners here, it might the right thing to resign as a Mod here. If things haven’t changed, I believe the mods are not paid so it would not be a financial hit. But it would be a start to addressing the situation where a known sock puppet was allowed to stay, regardless of who knew what, and when.
An old man like Buzz, who never cost anyone a dollar was banned many times. Once you or any Mod knew WoN was the same guy who screwed Ayecaramba years ago he should have been gone. Period.
And maybe myself and other posters are also guilty for making fun of him being allowed to stay with the comments made. Maybe we should have pushed it more, but we are just guests here and welcome to leave at anytime. As myself and others have been told multiple times.
As most successful people in life know, the easiest decision is seldom the right one.
Just one man’s opinion on a bad situation with no easy answers.
Quote: beachbumbabsNever one to do the smart thing and keep my mouth shut, I do have some thoughts on the subject.
I know that feel. Guess it's my turn...
I knew about the WoN = SAP accusations for over a year now. A couple of our sleuths have been banging on about it for awhile on other forums. I don't know exactly when it was (~8 - 14months ago) but one of our member's comments elsewhere finally got me revved enough to do something. I think it was no more than the statement that "it was obvious" in reference to writing styles, and I was quite concerned having not seen it myself. So I went back, spent some time on it... and I just didn't see it. That's not a challenge or a dispute on the claim, only a statement on my findings. Whatever prints you all were picking up on simply escaped me, so I sort of dropped it.
I say "sort of" because it never left me entirely. I happen to be quite a fan of Ayecarumba and am still irked that he got shafted years ago. I felt that if WoN was SAP, I owed it to Aye to flush him out. And thinking further, that I had a duty to the forum to not allow our mostly honorable membership to be open to another of his abuses.
But what was there to do? I did my part and saw nothing. I thought about asking Aye personally, but had my own worries about opening up old wounds, especially since a goodly chunk of the original offense seemed so tight lipped. I also prefer to work surreptitiously to prevent any rabble rousing and didn't want to kick the door in with but smoke and mirrors to present. So I sat. And I waited. And I watched.
What I saw was people going about their business. There was no thread created by any one of the several members who claimed it was as obvious as the nose on our faces, there was no warning when I entered into the football pool with him. All of you who posted on another forum about how obvious is was knew I was also on that forum, in that same thread with you. You didn't approach me there, and my PM's here remain as barren as ever. The ONLY thing I had to go on is what appeared to be some random musings, and I don't act without a fat stack of proof. There was simply nothing to act on with the exception of aspersions being cast on an entirely separate forum, which is not near enough to get me in motion.
I dunno. I'm often a bit of an afterthought here, so maybe y'all were blowing up Babs and Mission's inbox on the regular and I'm just ignorant of it. But the piling on of management for some reason is getting to me this time around. I'll end by +1 Bab's desire to have this conversation, and will add to have a convo with at least this Green as well.
Quote: GWAENo matter what any mod says WoN = sap was pointed out immediately. I will see if I can find that post. It was WoN posting a img image of a 7 card STR flush in paigow which was already posted by sap. I believe that is all correct, I will see if I can find it.
This thread is a mess. But one fact I need to know. Mission, WHEN did you know that StrictlyAP and WoN were the same person? Meaning if you allowed a sock puppet of a member who was accused of Welshing to be a member in good standing, that is a really bad optic.
Quote: CasinoKillerIf anyone is at all DOUBTING the LEGITIMACY of all claims made about Wizard of Nothing, I have empirical and multiple proofs from multiple people about just how evil this person is. I am happy to show them through whatever means necessary. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH about this guy. This person is a cancer, devoid of morality, and to make AP and the forums safer for all of us we must come together as a collective and make this right. If we do not stop him, he will continue to cause harm for the rest of his days.
I don't think that's in question. The issue is when did a moderator realize what was what and why nothing was done? So far, I must say I'm pretty disappointed in both the actions and response.
Quote: CasinoKillerIf anyone is at all DOUBTING the LEGITIMACY of all claims made about Wizard of Nothing, I have empirical and multiple proofs from multiple people about just how evil this person is. I am happy to show them through whatever means necessary. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH about this guy. This person is a cancer, devoid of morality, and to make AP and the forums safer for all of us we must come together as a collective and make this right. If we do not stop him, he will continue to cause harm for the rest of his days.
I am pretty sure that has never been the issue. Curious as to how you came across that website? Did you make it, or do you know who did?
I would like to hear the stories that you have.
Quote: billryanI don't think that's in question. The issue is when did a moderator realize what was what and why nothing was done? So far, I must say I'm pretty disappointed in both the actions and response.
Further, and I’ve asked twice, I still haven’t heard an answer to why he was allowed to publicly lure people to scam via the ‘Now Hiring’ advert in his signature...
To my memory, every other advertisement I’ve seen like that has required admin approval.
Quote: Boz
Not sure what you are saying but it seems like you are digging a deeper hole. Are you comparing what others have done with cards to what WoN is accused of by multiple people? Are you threatening to out them for making business transactions that were agreed upon by both parties? Is this a backhanded defense of WoN?
1.) No. I'm saying I am not going to discuss any dealings I've had with people off of the forum with specifics because they are private unless I get a person's permission to do so. I'm not going to, "Out," anyone for anything. That's precisely what I am trying to say.
2.) For the last time, I am not defending WoN either explicitly or implicitly. I made a decision about personal information that I believe was in keeping with the rules.
Quote:Do you not believe Dancer’s story happened exactly as he listed it? Regardless of it was remedied later, I think we would both agree Bob did everything possible resolve it before posting multiple stories of it. The story about the car shows a pattern of theft. And there are others who have been taken by WoN who are not speaking up.
I didn't read Dancer's story until yesterday. I didn't know anything about any car deal until yesterday. How would I know that stuff? The posts on that site with the car deal are from 2010. Do you think I Google everyone I have ever met by all variations of their name?
I believe the story Dancer posted, why wouldn't I?
Quote:I am not afraid to say I have met you, like you and know you have had some bad situations happen to you. And while it may be easy to say, and I have no clue of your employment situation with the owners here, it might the right thing to resign as a Mod here. If things haven’t changed, I believe the mods are not paid so it would not be a financial hit. But it would be a start to addressing the situation where a known sock puppet was allowed to stay, regardless of who knew what, and when.
I have sent a PM to Wizard inquiring as to his opinion of whether or not my resigning as an Administrator would impact my paid work for the family of sites.
Anyway, yesterday was March 11th, 2018, and now everyone is acting like I did things as many as two years ago with March 11th, 2018 knowledge.
The baseless accusations of, "Vouching," will stop if I resign, I promise that. If I am no longer an Admin, then I will request my full rightful protection under the rules.
Quote: SOOPOOThis thread is a mess. But one fact I need to know. Mission, WHEN did you know that StrictlyAP and WoN were the same person? Meaning if you allowed a sock puppet of a member who was accused of Welshing to be a member in good standing, that is a really bad optic.
I don't have a specific date, well after the WoN account was created.
Quote: Mission1461.)
I have sent a PM to Wizard inquiring as to his opinion of whether or not my resigning as an Administrator would impact my paid work for the family of sites.
Please don't leave us, there are only a few people on this site that I still read and you would be greatly missed.
Quote: DRichPlease don't leave us, there are only a few people on this site that I still read and you would be greatly missed.
I would still post here, thank you for the compliment. Holy crap, I actually have a friend on this Forum! Imagine that!
I will also be forced to retain my position as Administrator if it is the only way I can continue to write for the sites, but I doubt that is the case.
It is my belief that while WoN is on his own for the most part in his scams, Mission is valuable to him as a source of info for who people are on this site. Mission has access to registration information of the members that sign up for the forum that normal members don't have access to. I don't know how many peoples information have gotten into the hands of WoN through mission, but I know that this has happened 100%. It is my belief that mission is tactfully withholding and deleting information to protect himself because he has been complicit in WoNs cons. Mission has known for a long time that WoN was a con artist and choose to not do something about it because he has received financial benefits directly from WoN. While he is certainly being used by WoN, he is most likely a willing participant because he gains something from it as well.
Mission, I don't think you are a con man. I don't think you are evil. However, I think you have been used by WoN and directly allowed him to use others. Let me be clear in stating that in the hierarchy of evil, WoN is certainly at the very top alone. He is a con artist that scams other con artists. He is most certainly a sociopath in that he has no empathy or remorse for the people's lives he has ruined, and he needs to be brought to justice.
(post edited re: doxing) - Face
You're welcome, as stated earlier, to discuss this event, including whatever proofs you have. But the decision was made that there will be no doxing. Please refrain from posting personal info.
ETA:
Quote: OutsideMission has access to registration information of the members that sign up for the forum that normal members don't have access to. I don't know how many peoples information have gotten into the hands of WoN through mission, but I know that this has happened 100%.
As a mod I have almost no privileges outside of what a normal member sees. I have a little button that allows me to delete / sticky / split / close a thread, and a little blue "Ban" clicky for when folks cross the line. Oh, and I can see your IP.
Emails, PMs, "registration info", which I can't even remember what that entails, is all beyond my reach.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxI am going to put this out there as it is 100% factual. Mission and SAP have had and may continue to have some form of working relationship together. I know for a fact and have documented proof that Jeff has sent Mission money on multiple occasions. I know for a fact that Mission has revealed identities and information of members on this site to Jeff via his admin privileges. Jeff and Mission have regularly been in contact with each other.
It is my belief that while Jeff is on his own for the most part in his scams, Mission is valuable to him as a source of info for who people are on this site. Mission has access to registration information of the members that sign up for the forum that normal members don't have access to. I don't know how many peoples information have gotten into the hands of Jeff through mission, but I know that this has happened 100%. It is my belief that mission is tactfully withholding and deleting information to protect himself because he has been complicit in Jeffs cons. Mission has known for a long time that Jeff was a con artist and choose to not do something about it because he has received financial benefits directly from Jeff. While he is certainly being used by Jeff, he is most likely a willing participant because he gains something from it as well.
Mission, I don't think you are a con man. I don't think you are evil. However, I think you have been used by jeff and directly allowed him to use others. Let me be clear in stating that in the hierarchy of evil, Jeff is certainly at the very top alone. He is a con artist that scams other con artists. He is most certainly a sociopath in that he has no empathy or remorse for the people's lives he has ruined, and he needs to be brought to justice.
As admins, Mission, Face, and I have the same level of access to member info. It is EXTREMELY limited.
We do NOT have access to:
Member names
Member passwords
Real names (I don't think you even provide a real name to sign up, but it's been nearly 5 years since I signed up, so maybe that changed?)
Private Message (PM) content
PM base (who is writing whom )
Address or phone info
Email used to sign up with
GPS location
We can see some IP information (which is old info). Sometimes that matches another forum ID. When it does...
Sometimes it's a sock puppet, sometimes it's a household, sometimes it's a public IP (like a casino wifi) that other members have used.
So your "know for a fact Mission...using admin privileges" statement is proveably false.
I'm not in a position to know the veracity of the rest of your statements.
Edited to remove doxxing from my quote. However, I agree with RS; calling him Jeff Ala JeffWarren75 is not doxxing, so I'll leave the rest.
An associate created an account on WoV. JeffWarren knew the identity of who made the account, assumedly through Mission. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that Mission gave JeffWarren the IP address of who made it and Jeff was able to determine through the location of the address who that was.
Quote: RSI don’t think writing “Jeff” is doxxing considering one of his names was JeffWarren75.
I'd not argue, except the OP began with full legal name.
It's like this... I don't want to stifle discussion. I can damn sure understand a wish to out dishonor and a feeling of rage if he's seemingly being "protected". We had a thread discussing this at DT, and I promise you my feeling on thieves are positively medieval. Outing is the least I'd like.
But speaking less as authority and more a guy trying desperately to right a ship... I'm tied, here. I don't know what the future holds (and this is not a promise) but perhaps there will be a time when this cat is discussed as openly as Ivey, Walters, et al. But as of right now, it has been decided there can be no doxing.
I'm not savvy with legal stuff. I don't know what repercussions a site could face by this behavior, only that it serves as a greater than zero risk of hassle for the owners. As such, that must be my priority, despite wishes of members, including myself. I ask for all to understand that and help me in finding a way to get it out without causing strife between your side and mine.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxOk, let me elaborate.
An associate created an account on WoV. JeffWarren knew the identity of who made the account, assumedly through Mission. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that Mission gave JeffWarren the IP address of who made it and Jeff was able to determine through the location of the address who that was.
I’ve never given anyone at all an IP address. All of the other information you claimed I have shared is a lie because I have no access to any of it, as has been stated.
So question:. Did Mission know StrictlyAP personally before then? That is had they done business in person with each other?
If so there can be no doubt he knew that SAP was WON as we all had lunch together.
I don't know the answer to that one. Throwing it out there
Quote: OutsideTheBoxI am going to put this out there as it is 100% factual. Mission and WoN have had and may continue to have some form of working relationship together.
I’ve already answered this multiple times, yes we have. We currently have no business. Reading is your friend.
Quote:I know for a fact that WoN has sent Mission money on multiple occasions. I know for a fact that Mission has revealed identities and information of members on this site to WoN via his admin privileges. WoN and Mission have regularly been in contact with each other.
I have no privileges that would enable that. I don’t know what your Email or anyone else’s is, even.
Money goes back and forth when people work together. People who work together even contact each other.
Quote:It is my belief that mission is tactfully withholding and deleting information to protect himself because he has been complicit in WoNs cons. Mission has known for a long time that WoN was a con artist and choose to not do something about it because he has received financial benefits directly from WoN. While he is certainly being used by WoN, he is most likely a willing participant because he gains something from it as well.
Straight defamation. I also have know access to the information you claim I do. IP’s and matching handles are literally the only things I can see that nobody else can.
Quote:Mission, I don't think you are a con man. I don't think you are evil. However, I think you have been used by WoN and directly allowed him to use others. Let me be clear in stating that in the hierarchy of evil, WoN is certainly at the very top alone. He is a con artist that scams other con artists. He is most certainly a sociopath in that he has no empathy or remorse for the people's lives he has ruined, and he needs to be brought to justice.
(post edited re: doxing) - Face
Oh, how nice of you to say so after defaming me for four paragraphs and posting provably wrong accusations.
I already said I worked with him before. I didn’t realize that makes me personally responsible for everything he has ever done or ever will do in his entire life.
I’d better never talk to anyone from here, then, off the forum. Tough enough to only be responsible for my own actions.
Quote: darkozIt is agreed WON Mission and I met in late spring early summer 2016
So question:. Did Mission know StrictlyAP personally before then? That is had they done business in person with each other?
If so there can be no doubt he knew that SAP was WON as we all had lunch together.
I don't know the answer to that one. Throwing it out there
No. I believe that is the first week I ever went out there. It may have been the second, but certainly not more than that.
Quote: Mission146I’ve never given anyone at all an IP address. All of the other information you claimed I have shared is a lie because I have no access to any of it, as has been stated.
Were you soliciting info via PM and then passing it along?
I think your best course of action at this moment in time is to take your advice on page 4 and stop digging yourself in deeper. You have been outed and your credibility is shot. People are and it seems will continue to come out of the woodwork to bring a lot of stuff into the light. Are you really still trying to deny your association with a guy who has ripped forum members for some really substantial amounts of cash? People are calling BS where they see it. All good cons come to an end. The perpetrators are usually smart enough to get out of the oven before the heat gets turned up.
That said, will you have any further dealings with this piece of garbage in the future in light of what information has come out? Don’t give some “I don’t know” answer. Can you rule out right now having any thing to do with him ever again?
Quote: OutsideTheBoxOk, let me elaborate.
An associate created an account on WoV. JeffWarren knew the identity of who made the account, assumedly through Mission. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that Mission gave JeffWarren the IP address of who made it and Jeff was able to determine through the location of the address who that was.
So you made an assumption ("assumedly") and included THAT as one of your "100% factual" accusations?
This is serious stuff, man. Don't be stringing hypotheticals together to impugn another member. You're dangerously close to a personal attack on Mission over this. Not to mention cratering your own credibility.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxOk, let me elaborate. An associate created an account on WoV. JeffWarren knew the identity of who made the account, assumedly through Mission. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that Mission gave JeffWarren the IP address of who made it and Jeff was able to determine through the location of the address who that was.
That isn't "proof."
At the very most it is circumstantial evidence teetering on the cusp of coincidence.
I hope you've brought more than that to the game, boyo, or else your time at this board will be short lived indeed.
If you want to accuse a mod of perfidy you damned well better be able to prove it.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxOk, let me elaborate.
An associate created an account on WoV. JeffWarren knew the identity of who made the account, assumedly through Mission. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that Mission gave JeffWarren the IP address of who made it and Jeff was able to determine through the location of the address who that was.
That is really a reach.
Are you claiming you can't see us through the camera lenses on our computers?Quote: beachbumbabsWe do NOT have access to:
Member names
Member passwords
Real names (I don't think you even provide a real name to sign up, but it's been nearly 5 years since I signed up, so maybe that changed?)
Private Message (PM) content
PM base (who is writing whom )
Address or phone info
Email used to sign up with
GPS location
I'm still not taking the tape off, : )
Quote: petroglyphAre you claiming you can't see us through the camera lenses on our computers?
I'm still not taking the tape off, : )
Nope. Can't see a thing.
You might wipe that milk mustache off, btw. It dries to a crust.
:)
There may well be an innocent explanation to all this, but Missions responses so far are only tossing gasoline on the fire.
Mike puts a lot of effort into seeking out casinos and websites that aren't legit and exposes them. The Wizard Seal Of Approval means something. What's his take on one or more of the mods covering up for a guy like this? Or was he aware and has the same cavalier attitude about it?
Quote: billryanWhen someone is caught abusing his privileges as a moderator to help a person who is banned from the board, I think the next question is what else has he helped him with or looked the other way for? This isn't a KJ who cant control himself, or banning a babbling drunk, this is a known con man who was soliciting board members.
There may well be an innocent explanation to all this, but Missions responses so far are only tossing gasoline on the fire.
Mike puts a lot of effort into seeking out casinos and websites that aren't legit and exposes them. The Wizard Seal Of Approval means something. What's his take on one or more of the mods covering up for a guy like this? Or was he aware and has the same cavalier attitude about it?
What’s 100% fact is that an error in moderation directly led to multiple users of this site being victimized.
I’m not accusing anyone of anything specifically. Whether that error was incompetent/poor judgment or direct collusion remains to be seen.
But reguardless, I think we are owed an explanation as to why a well known sock puppet and well known con-man was allowed to publicly solicit victims on the forum for several months (or more than a year). And that explanation has not happened yet.
Quote: MrVThat isn't "proof."
At the very most it is circumstantial evidence teetering on the cusp of coincidence.
I hope you've brought more than that to the game, boyo, or else your time at this board will be short lived indeed.
If you want to accuse a mod of perfidy you damned well better be able to prove it.
I don't know or understand how JeffWarren was able to figure out the identity of who made the account. I assumed it was through Mission because of the working relationship that I knew they have/had and thats why I am waiting for him to respond with a hypothesis of how this was possible.
I also assumed it because of the various things members have pointed out about the relationship between Mission and JeffWarren that mission chose not to do something about: how he had an ad up for employment that wasnt modified, how there were existing reports that he was a con man but his account was still active, etc.
Am I really to believe that Mission who has known WoN personally for multiple years came to the conclusion after many members shared their concerns about JeffWarren that "Its just someones word against the other" when there were/are so many overwhelming accounts testifying that JeffWarren is pure evil?
I want the truth, not to assume. These are educated assumptions. There is no way possible that Mission wasn't aware jeffwarren75 had many accusations of being a scammer. There is no way Mission wasn't somewhat complicit (directly or indirectly) in helping him scam unless I am to believe the above, that he truly believed it was one persons work against another.
I draw a conclusion because it has been way more than one persons word against JeffWarren. There are circumstantial issues (like mission and jeff having worked together continually over time and Missions perceived benefit from that) that incentivizes mission to protect jeffwarren. Something is being withheld. If it smells, looks, and quacks like a duck...
Quote: billryanWhen someone is caught abusing his privileges as a moderator to help a person who is banned from the board, I think the next question is what else has he helped him with or looked the other way for? This isn't a KJ who cant control himself, or banning a babbling drunk, this is a known con man who was soliciting board members.
There may well be an innocent explanation to all this, but Missions responses so far are only tossing gasoline on the fire.
Mike puts a lot of effort into seeking out casinos and websites that aren't legit and exposes them. The Wizard Seal Of Approval means something. What's his take on one or more of the mods covering up for a guy like this? Or was he aware and has the same cavalier attitude about it?
Again, against my better judgement, I'm going to come in on this, using your post as a jumping off point, representative of several above it.
The reason I don't want to come in is because there's entirely too much I don't know about what actually happened. I've never been involved with any SAP activity, never met him, or worked with Mission outside of us being co-moderators.
However, I don't believe Mission coerced anyone here to work with SAP (have never heard that claimed), provided privileged information to SAP(he had no access), or has any responsibility to keep anyone on an anonymous forum from doing business with SAP.
What's more, none of us does bear that responsibility. Many watched for indications of members at risk or being approached, warned people off where they could, avoided being brought into things, but in the end, it is up to everyone to guard their own interests (many more warnings than just SAP - lots of cons around) . Good intentions can only go so far, unfortunately.
It is possible SAP used Mission to "vouch" for him without Mission's concurrence. I have seen SAP attempt to claim someone will vouch for him who is instead having their name thrown into the mix to prove his validity (a different person than Mission) .
Mission and apparently several other people took their chances, as adults, with someone who made promises and dangled profits in front of them. Quite a few got had. Mission apparently did not. That doesn't mean he was abusing his position here, to have done some plays with SAP. Those things should not be conflated, and I think the judgment passed on Mission's actions so far are unfair and overblown.
Foolish to work with SAP? Maybe: I think it was but.... I'm not Mission. He says he did before, does not now, and they're square. He didn't have access to sellable member info. If he vouched for SAP, I'm not aware of it. So tarring him with the same brush seems excessive.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxI don't know or understand how JeffWarren was able to figure out the identity of who made the account. I assumed it was through Mission because of the working relationship that I knew they have/had and thats why I am waiting for him to respond with a hypothesis of how this was possible.
I also assumed it because of the various things members have pointed out about the relationship between Mission and JeffWarren that mission chose not to do something about: how he had an ad up for employment that wasnt modified, how there were existing reports that he was a con man but his account was still active, etc.
Am I really to believe that Mission who has known WoN personally for multiple years came to the conclusion after many members shared their concerns about JeffWarren that "Its just someones word against the other" when there were/are so many overwhelming accounts testifying that JeffWarren is pure evil?
I want the truth, not to assume. These are educated assumptions. There is no way possible that Mission wasn't aware jeffwarren75 had many accusations of being a scammer. There is no way Mission wasn't somewhat complicit (directly or indirectly) in helping him scam unless I am to believe the above, that he truly believed it was one persons work against another.
I draw a conclusion because it has been way more than one persons word against JeffWarren. There are circumstantial issues (like mission and jeff having worked together continually over time and Missions perceived benefit from that) that incentivizes mission to protect jeffwarren. Something is being withheld. If it smells, looks, and quacks like a duck...
I THINK YOU HAVE FOUND A BUTTON AND SEWED A VEST ON IT : PERRY MASON
FORGET WHO SAID THIS :
"Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed."
Mission:
You did not meet Jeff W.face to face until after he had created his account as WON? Approximately late 2015-early 2016?
What screenname did your friend use? Do they use it elsewhere? Is it associated with their name there? Several of the guys with YouTube slot channels have accounts here in the same name. If I was curious when they joined here, I could have learned an awful lot about them from there.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxMission, how would JeffWarren75 be able to identify who created a new account on WoV. Can you offer any explanation?
No.
You've already accused me of having certain, "Registration Information," that either does not exist anywhere accessible at all or that I don't have access to. After that, when other Admins told you I could not have any such information, you walked your statements back to something else.
I don't know about other people, but your vendetta here is clear enough. I worked with someone and you want me to, as a result, be considered responsible for everything he has ever done, may have ever do, will do, may do and is currently doing. It doesn't matter what I did or did not have to do with anything involving anyone else, which by the way is nothing, and it really doesn't even matter to people if some of the accusations are from before I even knew who he is or was ever even on this site.
I'm literally being asked about knowledge of things that happened in 2010. How the hell do I know what someone was doing in 2010?
Quote: beachbumbabsAgain, against my better judgement, I'm going to come in on this, using your post as a jumping off point, representative of several above it.
The reason I don't want to come in is because there's entirely too much I don't know about what actually happened. I've never been involved with any SAP activity, never met him, or worked with Mission outside of us being co-moderators.
However, I don't believe Mission coerced anyone here to work with SAP (have never heard that claimed), provided privileged information to SAP(he had no access), or has any responsibility to keep anyone on an anonymous forum from doing business with SAP.
What's more, none of us does bear that responsibility. Many watched for indications of members at risk or being approached, warned people off where they could, avoided being brought into things, but in the end, it is up to everyone to guard their own interests (many more warnings than just SAP - lots of cons around) . Good intentions can only go so far, unfortunately.
It is possible SAP used Mission to "vouch" for him without Mission's concurrence. I have seen SAP attempt to claim someone will vouch for him who is instead having their name thrown into the mix to prove his validity (a different person than Mission) .
Mission and apparently several other people took their chances, as adults, with someone who made promises and dangled profits in front of them. Quite a few got had. Mission apparently did not. That doesn't mean he was abusing his position here, to have done some plays with SAP. Those things should not be conflated, and I think the judgment passed on Mission's actions so far are unfair and overblown.
Foolish to work with SAP? Maybe: I think it was but.... I'm not Mission. He says he did before, does not now, and they're square. He didn't have access to sellable member info. If he vouched for SAP, I'm not aware of it. So tarring him with the same brush seems excessive.
Circling the wagons is not going to work this time.
Quote: MaxPenWere you soliciting info via PM and then passing it along?
Absolutely, positively, 100% not.
Quote:I think your best course of action at this moment in time is to take your advice on page 4 and stop digging yourself in deeper.
If you want me to stop discussing it, then stop asking me questions.
I worked with the guy in the context of myself personally and did not ever involve anyone from the forum in his affairs. I never once vouched for him to anyone.
If you want me to quit talking, then quit making false statements.
I've already stated that, as long as it doesn't affect my writing for the sites, that I intend to resign as an Administrator, here.
Quote: beachbumbabs
This is serious stuff, man. Don't be stringing hypotheticals together to impugn another member. You're dangerously close to a personal attack on Mission over this. Not to mention cratering your own credibility.
"Dangerously close?" Were I not an Admin, I would demand that he would be banned for Trolling, Bullying, Personal Insult and outright defamation.
Quote: OutsideTheBoxOk, let me elaborate.
An associate created an account on WoV. JeffWarren knew the identity of who made the account, assumedly through Mission. The only explanation I can come up with for this is that Mission gave JeffWarren the IP address of who made it and Jeff was able to determine through the location of the address who that was.
As a programmer that has been writing Internet software since the mid-90’s, I can tell you that your assertion that an IP can somehow resolve to a physical address is as ludicrous as the stuff that winds up in the “betting systems” section of this forum. The best you can hope for is a city, and even then it may be completely wrong because of issues with ARIN’s databases and the limited supply of IPv4 addresses - IPs from large ISPs that operate in many cities sometimes resolve to locations nowhere near where they actually are. Just to show you how messed up ARIN’s system is, a few years ago some Russians were able to obtain large blocks of IPs in the name of major American ISPs and are believed to have used those IPs to generate more than $2 billion in fraudulent advertising revenue for themselves. They were in Russia and the IPs resolved to mostly American cities.
Many IPs are randomly assigned to people and reused at different times, such as those assigned to mobile devices. IP addresses from WiFi hotspots, such as those in hotels and Starbucks, along with IPs from VPN services, are similarly useless.
Even if the account in question were created from the home broadband connection of the user, and their ISP assigns them a static IP, the only way for WoN to obtain the actual name of the person would be if he had gone to a court, filed a lawsuit, and then had the court issue a subpoena to the ISP for that user’s information as part of that lawsuit.
In short, your suspicion is completely false. Maybe your “associate” volunteered information that divulged his identity. But it didn’t come from his IP being leaked.
Quote: AussieMission you don’t come out smelling like roses here by any stretch. I dont know what the truth is regarding your relationship with this guy but it doesn’t look good. As they say perception is reality.
That said, will you have any further dealings with this piece of garbage in the future in light of what information has come out? Don’t give some “I don’t know” answer. Can you rule out right now having any thing to do with him ever again?
I don't care what you or anyone else thinks I come out smelling like. As far as I am concerned, this has become a witch hunt, at this point. I already admitted having prior dealings with him and spoke as to the extent of those dealings without revealing specific plays.
Darkoz is the only member of this forum who has ever been in the presence of myself and WoN at the same time, unless someone else was in a casino at the same time as us and we didn't know it. Otherwise has not been said yet, but anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Anyone who claims I vouched for him is a liar. Anyone who claims I divulged their personal information to him is a liar.
I do not currently have business dealings with him and will not in the future.
