Trump's Second and Third year in office
Quote: AZDuffmanYou are aware that McDonald's built their reputation as being a clean place?
McDonald's health inspection reports
Quote:He wants us to have our guns taken away
No he doesn't. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? I guess not, since you keep posting easily disprovable claims.
Quote: AZDuffmanHe wants us to have our guns taken away
Fake news
An outright lie by AZ
Quote: TigerWu
In 25.000 restaurants there will be an issue here or there. Does not change the fact that an average MCD is probably much cleaner than The Red Hen.
Quote:No he doesn't. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? I guess not, since you keep posting easily disprovable claims.
Yes, he does. The whole movement does. Anyone can see that. Have you not seen all the calls to "Repeal the 2nd." Or do you really believe them when they say they just want "commonsense x."
No matter what, he shows who he is, being anti-gun then having armed protection.
Quote: mcallister3200He’s an arrogant hypocrite trying to profit by standing on the graves of the victims. Point blank obvious, end of story. All anyone needs to see about him.
Quote: AZDuffman
Yes, he does.
Nope
Another AZ lie
His father is FBI
Guns in his house are ok because he not for a gun ban
Trump's roach infested restaurants are vile compared to the Red Hen.
So much for Trump's standards in fine dining.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWu
In 25.000 restaurants there will be an issue here or there. Does not change the fact that an average MCD is probably much cleaner than The Red Hen.
Yes, he does. The whole movement does. Anyone can see that. Have you not seen all the calls to "Repeal the 2nd." Or do you really believe them when they say they just want "commonsense x."
No matter what, he shows who he is, being anti-gun then having armed protection.
I not only believe them, I agree with them. The zero movement on ANY useful reform stance is at least as ridiculous as the ban-all-gun people. The VAST majority of Americans, including a large majority of gun owners, ARE in favor of some restrictions and reforms. Which is part of why he's being so effective, and so gets attacked so much. If he was bad at what he's doing, he'd just get ignored by his opposition.
Maintaining the lie about Hogg is a purely political mischaracterization. It's a propaganda technique to just keep repeating a lie in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.
Quote: gamerfreak
Who wouldn't want a photo of a loved one signed by donny dumpster?
Quote: TigerWuConservatives love a good boogeyman. Especially one of their own invention. See also: Hillary Clinton.
Hogg states that he is a supporter of the Second Amendment and supports NRA members' right to own guns legally, saying, "We’re calling out the NRA a lot and 99.9 percent of the people that are in the NRA are responsible, safe gun owners and I respect them for that, joining an organization that wants to support safe gun ownership is excellent.”
What does Hogg want?
Universal background checks, raising the age requirement to purchase a gun to 21, and laws blocking anyone with a history of mental health disorders or a criminal background or history or domestic violence from getting a firearm.
“I believe everybody should have their Second Amendment right to own a gun. I'm not trying to take that away. I am trying to put limitations on the Second Amendment in the same way that we have limitations on the First,” Hogg said.
So a 17 year old can have fully automatic weapons in the military, but cannot buy a shotgun or rifle?
Quote: aceofspades
So a 17 year old can have fully automatic weapons in the military, but cannot buy a shotgun or rifle?
You can still have a shotgun or rifle if you're 17. You just can't buy it yourself. At least, I'm assuming that's what Hogg's stance is. I don't know for sure, though, so you'd have to ask him.
But personally, I think 17 is too young to serve anyway.
Quote: aceofspades
So a 17 year old can have fully automatic weapons in the military, but cannot buy a shotgun or rifle?
As far as I'm concerned any 17 year old serving in the US military can have a automatic weapon. What's your point? That any guy your age deserves your lawyer license just because you're the same age?
Quote: rxwineAs far as I'm concerned any 17 year old serving the US military can have a automatic weapon. What's your point? That any guy your age deserves your lawyer license just because you're the same age?
False equivalency
Obtaining a law license is not a Const. right
Quote: aceofspadesFalse equivalency
You mean you didn't receive any education in your area and you're the same as any untrained guy of the same age on the street?
Quote: aceofspadesFalse equivalency
So is military weapon use and civilian weapon ownership.
Quote: rxwineWell what about 16, 15, 14 and on down? What does the Constitution say about them? As far as I know we should give 6 year olds loaded guns.
Don't forget convicted felons. Let's give the guy who just spent 30 years in jail for armed robbery and murder a fully operational .50 cal machine gun to strap onto the roof of his car.
"Shall not be infringed," right?
Quote: rxwineWell what about 16, 15, 14 and on down? What does the Constitution say about them? As far as I know we should give 6 year olds loaded guns.
6, 14, 15, and 16 year olds cannot join the US military
Quote: aceofspades6, 14, 15, and 16 year olds cannot join the US military
So we should or shouldn't give them unrestricted access to all types firearms?
Quote: TigerWuSo we should or shouldn't give them unrestricted access to all types firearms?
I'm saying if you are given a weapon and can fight in the US military, then you should be eligible tp purchase a gun as well
(Please no reductio ad absurdum)
Quote: aceofspadesI'm saying if you are given a weapon and can fight in the US military, then you should be eligible tp purchase a gun as well
In the military your weapon is issued to you, registered by the military in your name, and kept locked in a secure location on a military base. Furthermore, you are given extensive training on your weapon, and must qualify to use it on a yearly basis (sometimes more often), and this is the only time you are allowed to fire it (outside of a combat deployment).
Would you be okay with such similar restrictions in the civilian world?
Quote: aceofspadesI'm saying if you are given a weapon and can fight in the US military, then you should be eligible tp purchase a gun as well
(Please no reductio ad absurdum)
Well, plenty of people can't get in the military for various reasons. How do we know if you're 17 year old who wouldn't get in? I think you're the one making a false equivalency.
Quote: aceofspadesQuote: TigerWuConservatives love a good boogeyman. Especially one of their own invention. See also: Hillary Clinton.
Hogg states that he is a supporter of the Second Amendment and supports NRA members' right to own guns legally, saying, "We’re calling out the NRA a lot and 99.9 percent of the people that are in the NRA are responsible, safe gun owners and I respect them for that, joining an organization that wants to support safe gun ownership is excellent.”
What does Hogg want?
Universal background checks, raising the age requirement to purchase a gun to 21, and laws blocking anyone with a history of mental health disorders or a criminal background or history or domestic violence from getting a firearm.
“I believe everybody should have their Second Amendment right to own a gun. I'm not trying to take that away. I am trying to put limitations on the Second Amendment in the same way that we have limitations on the First,” Hogg said.
So a 17 year old can have fully automatic weapons in the military, but cannot buy a shotgun or rifle?
Beyond all the false equivalency this aspect of age restriction is not uncommon
18 to PERFORM in pornos - 21 to watch them
17 to act responsibly (and gamble with your own life fighting in war) - 21 to make such life threatening choices as which is better pass line or dont pass
18 to start giving yourself lung cancer - 21 to start destroying your liver (and some places no age to start getting high without cancer or liver damage)
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWu
Have you not seen all the calls to "Repeal the 2nd." Or do you really believe them when they say they just want "commonsense x.".
Thats a contradiction
Are people calling for commonsense x and you just refuse to believe them
Or are they asking for repeal the 2nd
Its okay if you dont believe them when calling for commonsense x but you cant then argue you actually heard them say repeal the 2nd
Quote: darkozQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWu
Have you not seen all the calls to "Repeal the 2nd." Or do you really believe them when they say they just want "commonsense x.".
Thats a contradiction
Are people calling for commonsense x and you just refuse to believe them
Or are they asking for repeal the 2nd
Its okay if you dont believe them when calling for commonsense x but you cant then argue you actually heard them say repeal the 2nd
Look how well gun control has worked din Chicago? What tougher laws can be implemented (aside from confiscation and repealing the 2nd Am.) that would prevent criminals from obtaining guns? The only people who obey gun laws are law abiding citizens.
Quote: aceofspadesLook how well gun control has worked din Chicago?
Have you ever been to Chicago?
Driving into Chicago, there are about ten million little gun shops in Indiana within 15 minutes of the city limits with big signs that you can read from the highway.
Perhaps if Chicago wasn't stuck next to a shithole state like Indiana, their laws would work better.
Quote: aceofspades
Look how well gun control has worked din Chicago?
Okay, let's look:
The truth - and lies - about Chicago's gun laws
"New York, in fact, has stricter gun laws on the books than Chicago. And guess what? Its homicide numbers are heading toward historic lows. Los Angeles has some pretty tough gun laws too. Its homicide numbers also pale compared with Chicago’s. Those kinds of details don’t fit the conservative, pro-gun narrative, though. To use New York as a talking point, they’d have to admit that strict gun laws might actually have an impact on homicide rates. ...... With no gun stores in Chicago and no background check loopholes for private sales, one thing is clear. The guns being used to kill people on the streets aren’t originating in Chicago. They’re coming from someplace else. ..... When it comes to gun laws, big cities are only as strong as the states that border them. And in Chicago’s case, that’s Indiana. Thanks to Vice President Mike Pence, the former governor, Indiana has some of the weakest gun laws in the nation."
Is Chicago proof that gun laws don't work?
"And there's good evidence that being next-door to those states keeps Chicago criminals well-supplied with guns. A 2015 study of guns in Chicago, co-authored by Cook, found that more than 60 percent of new guns used in Chicago gang-related crimes and 31.6 percent used in non-gang-related crimes between 2009 and 2013 were bought in other states. Indiana was a particularly heavy supplier, providing nearly one-third of the gang guns and nearly one-fifth of the non-gang guns.
Other evidence corroborates this — a 2014 Chicago Police Department report found that Indiana accounted for 19 percent of all guns recovered by the department between 2009 and 2013."
The problem with using Chicago to make the case against gun control.
"But advocates for tougher restrictions say Trump's and Christie's arguments do not take into account two key features of the Chicago's gun landscape. The first is that, though it's hard to get a gun in Chicago, it's much easier to get one in the city's immediate vicinity. The second feature is the city's high level of gang activity, and that gangs are both adept at procuring guns illegally and prone to involvement in shooting incidents.
“I think that it's more likely that if Chicago did not have tough gun laws they would have higher rates of gun violence than they do have,” said Philip Cook, a Duke public policy professor and economist who works with the University of Chicago Crime Lab, leading its multi-city underground gun market study."
And anyway, what happened to the old conservative talking point that "more guns = less crime?" If Chicago is rife with guns, then there should be less crime, right?
Quote: aceofspadesQuote: darkozQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWu
Have you not seen all the calls to "Repeal the 2nd." Or do you really believe them when they say they just want "commonsense x.".
Thats a contradiction
Are people calling for commonsense x and you just refuse to believe them
Or are they asking for repeal the 2nd
Its okay if you dont believe them when calling for commonsense x but you cant then argue you actually heard them say repeal the 2nd
Look how well gun control has worked din Chicago? What tougher laws can be implemented (aside from confiscation and repealing the 2nd Am.) that would prevent criminals from obtaining guns? The only people who obey gun laws are law abiding citizens.
Out of curiosity, are you still a practicing attorney?
Quote: billryanQuote: aceofspadesQuote: darkozQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWu
Have you not seen all the calls to "Repeal the 2nd." Or do you really believe them when they say they just want "commonsense x.".
Thats a contradiction
Are people calling for commonsense x and you just refuse to believe them
Or are they asking for repeal the 2nd
Its okay if you dont believe them when calling for commonsense x but you cant then argue you actually heard them say repeal the 2nd
Look how well gun control has worked din Chicago? What tougher laws can be implemented (aside from confiscation and repealing the 2nd Am.) that would prevent criminals from obtaining guns? The only people who obey gun laws are law abiding citizens.
Out of curiosity, are you still a practicing attorney?
Why is that relevant?
Sometimes responding to a question with another question is enough of an answer.
Quote: billryanQuote: gamerfreak
Who wouldn't want a photo of a loved one signed by donny dumpster?
Luckily most of us haven’t had to put ourselves in their position of having a loved one killed by an illegal, so it’s a question I can’t answer.
But as long as people with your beliefs get their way, sadly more people will have to join that group of being able to answer the question.
And there is no argument you can make that denies that simple fact.
Quote: aceofspadesLook how well gun control has worked din Chicago? What tougher laws can be implemented (aside from confiscation and repealing the 2nd Am.) that would prevent criminals from obtaining guns? The only people who obey gun laws are law abiding citizens.
I thought it was Detroit. Is Chicago worse?
Anyway if you take the worse case scenario, the very worst areas, it is probably true, not a lot we do helps. And you can't have Mickey Mouse laws, if you don't have Mickey Mouse customers.
But if you think in general, laws that punish bad people aren't working, you can apply it to the whole system of law breakers, not just illegal gun users. In other words, people willing to do crime will do crime despite the laws, so what's the point of laws? I hope that's not anyone's position.
Quote: beachbumbabs
I not only believe them, I agree with them. The zero movement on ANY useful reform stance is at least as ridiculous as the ban-all-gun people. The VAST majority of Americans, including a large majority of gun owners, ARE in favor of some restrictions and reforms.
We have good, commonsense gun laws. Gun violence is statistically not a problem. Most gun deaths are suicides. Most of the rest are related to people in criminal activity. A great deal are concentrated in just a few urban areas.
Your chances of being killed by a gun if you are not committing suicide or a criminal yourself are near zero.
IOW, we don't need more laws!
It is already against the law to shoot people. Schools are already gun free zones.
If a person is afraid of guns, like Hogg, they should just not buy one. Let free adults (18+) make their own choices.
Quote: lilredrooster
lol, REALLY? So if you went to buy something you LOVED that just went on sale, or to a concert of your FAVORITE band, etc, and were told "nah, your name is AOS, we don't allow people with that name in here..." you wouldn't muss or fuss? You don't see ANY kind of human rights issues with businesses purposefully excluding people by race? ...REALLY?Quote: aceofspades...I have no problem with this at all nor would I have a problem with any business owner discriminating against anyone for anything - it is their business (naturally, this does not go for public utilities or businesses that benefit from tax subsidies)
- You're fine with casinos kicking out card counters for using their brains?
HOW BIG ARE STORMY'S HANDS... lol am I the only one to see this??? Maybe that's why trump is mad at her... jealousy.Quote: EvenBobHere's the real threat to sanity, two
losers on parade:
Kathy Griffin Teams with Stormy Daniels to Say ‘F Trump’
Quote: AZDuffmanGun violence is statistically not a problem. Most gun deaths are suicides. Most of the rest are related to people in criminal activity. A great deal are concentrated in just a few urban areas.
Your chances of being killed by a gun if you are not committing suicide or a criminal yourself are near zero.
This is something I would agree with, once gun lobby allows real studies to proceed.
Edit, I should say might agree with, as the outcome of studies would determine my position.
Quote: AZDuffmanWe have good, commonsense gun laws. Gun violence is statistically not a problem. Most gun deaths are suicides. Most of the rest are related to people in criminal activity. A great deal are concentrated in just a few urban areas.
Your chances of being killed by a gun if you are not committing suicide or a criminal yourself are near zero.
IOW, we don't need more laws!
If your chances of being killed by a gun are slim, what do you suppose your odds of being killed by a member of MS-13 are?
How about by a Islamic Terrorists? You might be more selective in picking out your boogeymen.
Quote: AZDuffman
Your chances of being killed by a gun if you are not committing suicide or a criminal yourself are near zero.
More like 1 in 315.
And being killed by a foreign born terrorist is 1 in 45,785.
Yet it's the latter that so many politicians in power right now seem to be obsessed with for some reason.... I just can't quite put my finger on what that reason might be.... hmm...
Quote: rxwineThis is something I would agree with, once gun lobby allows real studies to proceed.
Edit, I should say might agree with, as the outcome of studies would determine my position.
What "studies" are needed? We have the FBI stats and they are pretty much unquestionable. Solutions, OTOH, are uncomfortable. So we get calls for laws like taking rights away from 20 year old adults.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhat "studies" are needed? We have the FBI stats and they are pretty much unquestionable. Solutions, OTOH, are uncomfortable. So we get calls for laws like taking rights away from 20 year old adults.
Pretty sure compiling death numbers is not all we need to know about gun effects. As a matter of fact, if guns are positive EV we should know why and perhaps even improve our numbers with more pro-gun legislation. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.
Quote: TigerWu
Same article says 1 in 108 will die in an auto accident. LETS BAN CARS!
1 in 315 is pretty close to zero. I'll keep my freedom and take the chance. Mine is actually lower because I am not in a gang and I do not live in a place like Chicago with draconian gun laws yet still has high violence.
Quote:And being killed by a foreign born terrorist is 1 in 45,785.
Yet it's the latter that so many politicians in power right now seem to be obsessed with for some reason.... I just can't quite put my finger on what that reason might be.... hmm...
The reason would be the foreign terrorists are the result of a dangerous movement trying to overrun and destroy the west. But that is another thread.
lol... you do realize Vehicles are HEAVILY restricted with MANY LAWS surrounding who can get one, who can drive one, and HOW you can drive it when you do use it, right??? Can you drive a Semi if you wanted to? Nope. Can you drive a motorcycle without even further specialized training/testing/licencing??? Nope...Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWu
Same article says 1 in 108 will die in an auto accident. LETS BAN CARS!
Thanks for making our point!
EVERYONE: AZDuffman said we should regulate guns like we do cars... You need to have government training, a formal government test (which includes things like eye exams), a licence which you renew every 4 years, and a SLEW of laws you must obey at all times on EVERY street of the country!!!
More proof that Trump has been bad for Gun Sales. So it’s a simple choice liberals, re-elect Trump to reduce Gun Sales or elect a crazy like Bernie or Lizzie and watch Gun sales go up again.
Tough choices you have in your quest for your vision of utopia.
Quote: Romeslol... you do realize Vehicles are HEAVILY restricted with MANY LAWS surrounding who can get one, who can drive one, and HOW you can drive it when you do use it, right??? Can you drive a Semi if you wanted to? Nope. Can you drive a motorcycle without even further specialized training/testing/licencing??? Nope...
You do realize that guns are also heavily restricted, right? 3 day waiting period and a background check. In most states you get another check if you want to be allowed to carry one. Plus guns are banned from places like schools altogether.
Quote:Thanks for making our point!
The point that you do not understand gun laws?
Quote:EVERYONE: AZDuffman said we should regulate guns like we do cars... You need to have government training, a formal government test (which includes things like eye exams), a licence which you renew every 4 years, and a SLEW of laws you must obey at all times on EVERY street of the country!!!
1. No formal government training to get a license
2. There is a formal government background check, call it a test
3. In most states you must renew your gun license every few years
4. There are a SLEW of gun laws you must obey.
Yeah, I made your point!
Oh really? That's funny... when I bought my gun from a legal store in my state, I filled out a form, it got sent in, and I bought my gun within 10 minutes. I did not have ANY KIND of "3 day" wait.Quote: AZDuffmanYou do realize that guns are also heavily restricted, right? 3 day waiting period and a background check. In most states you get another check if you want to be allowed to carry one. Plus guns are banned from places like schools altogether.Quote: Romeslol... you do realize Vehicles are HEAVILY restricted with MANY LAWS surrounding who can get one, who can drive one, and HOW you can drive it when you do use it, right??? Can you drive a Semi if you wanted to? Nope. Can you drive a motorcycle without even further specialized training/testing/licencing??? Nope...
Next, let's talk about gun shows and private sales. No waiting periods or background checks (most of the time) there! I bought a RIFFLE from a gun show and didn't have to even fill a form out. Just handed him money, and he handed me a hand written receipt and a gun (and ammo). Many states have open carry, in which you don't need any kind of training or certification to simply carry your gun around a lot of places... So I could buy a gun and just walk around on the streets all in the same 10 MINUTES. Well, unless you're black of course... because racism is clearly alive and well in america.
1. You do NOT have to have a licence to have a gun.Quote: AZDuffmanThe point that you do not understand gun laws?
1. No formal government training to get a license
2. There is a formal government background check, call it a test
3. In most states you must renew your gun license every few years
4. There are a SLEW of gun laws you must obey.
Yeah, I made your point!
2. The background check is a "test" that tests the users knowledge and skill surrounding their ability to understand and use the weapon? F%&*'IN LOL. Come on now, you can't sh*t a sh*tter.... that's just hilariously inept. To boot, when Obama wanted "better" background checks righties and gun lobbyists along side one another all the sudden started shouting "OMG HE WANTS TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY!" Jesus this is why I hate republicans. So much BLINDNESS to even what they say/do themselves. Unreal.
3. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A LICENSE TO HAVE A GUN.
4. Fairly limited actually. In our car example... You can not go buy a car privately and just start driving it. You have to go to the DMV, record the sale, get the title, get temp tags, get real tags, have an E-Check, THEN you can drive it on the streets.
With a gun, as I pointed out that I've PERSONALLY DONE... You can buy one and be on the streets with it within 10 minutes. See the problem? (you probably don't but lol everyone else does)
Quote: BozMore proof that Trump has been bad for Gun Sales. So it’s a simple choice liberals, re-elect Trump to reduce Gun Sales or elect a crazy like Bernie or Lizzie and watch Gun sales go up again.
I don't know many liberals who are single issue voters, and the ones that are usually make that issue about abortion.
So, I don't think it would really be a problem for them voting for a liberal candidate under whose administration gun sales would rise. Obama did get re-elected, after all.
Quote: RomesNext, let's talk about gun shows and private sales. No waiting periods or background checks (most of the time) there! I bought a RIFFLE from a gun show and didn't have to even fill a form out.
Many pro gun persons will keep telling you how gun laws don't work, not all the ways to get around it that they know of.
Quote: Bozhttp://thedataface.com/2018/03/economy/us-gun-sales
More proof that Trump has been bad for Gun Sales. So it’s a simple choice liberals, re-elect Trump to reduce Gun Sales or elect a crazy like Bernie or Lizzie and watch Gun sales go up again.
Tough choices you have in your quest for your vision of utopia.
Not a tough choice at all.
I'll take Bernie, Lizzie, Kamala, Corey, or whoever and the gun nuts can have fun buying more guns.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/06/20/left-shows-activists-how-to-kill-an-ice-agent-pledges-to-go-after-their-families-n2492637
Quote: Romes***EXCERPT***
lol, REALLY? So if you went to buy something you LOVED that just went on sale, or to a concert of your FAVORITE band, etc, and were told "nah, your name is AOS, we don't allow people with that name in here..." you wouldn't muss or fuss? You don't see ANY kind of human rights issues with businesses purposefully excluding people by race? ...REALLY?
- You're fine with casinos kicking out card counters for using their brains?
Yes! I would find another retailer/service that wanted my money
