Trump's Second and Third year in office
Quote: aceofspadesThat wasn't the context of the conversation
We were discussing a cage match between politicians
I'd definitely put some money on Paul Ryan, though...
Quote: aceofspadesWhat's the money line on Hillary versus Trump?
Quote: terapined100.00 she does not enter a primary
no odds. even money
It will be telling that no conservative will take this bet
Quote: aceofspadesThat wasn't the context of the conversation
Sure it is
Quote: terapinedSure it is
*Facepalm*
You should read the thread in full before spouting off nonsense.
Considering Paul Ryan is probably like 30-50 years younger than anyone else in those circles, he's probably a pretty big favorite, unless there's some collusion (ie: if it's a free-for-all and he gets ganged up on). How old's that young whippersnapper now, anyway? He's gotta be like 20 or 25, right? HRC's like 200 years old I bet (she's a reptillian / lizard person, remember) and Trump's like a strong 70.
Quote: RSHow old's that young whippersnapper now, anyway? He's gotta be like 20 or 25, right? HRC's like 200 years old I bet (she's a reptillian / lizard person, remember) and Trump's like a strong 70.
Yeah, but reptile almost beat a young Captain Kirk. Trump's tiny hands can barely grip the hem of her pantsuit, I bet.
The neocon/ neolibs destabilize country after country and kill millions illegally. But what makes the mainstream news sites, is the separating of family's who have forced their way here, to make demands.
rally in MN. The camera pans the crowd
and it's literally crammed to the rafters,
thousands of people. And thousands
more outside that couldn't get in. MN
is a blue state, go figure.
They go nuts every time Trump makes
a point. They chant CNN SUCKS and
BUILD THAT WALL, it's really great.
CNN will report 1000 attended, just wait.
Quote: EvenBobTrump live on Fox now at a campaign
rally in MN. The camera pans the crowd
and it's literally crammed to the rafters,
thousands of people. And thousands
more outside that couldn't get in. MN
is a blue state, go figure.
They go nuts every time Trump makes
a point. They chant CNN SUCKS and
BUILD THAT WALL, it's really great.
CNN will report 100 attended, just wait.
FTFY
Quote: TigerWuMost of them don't even know why even know why they're going bonkers over it. Trump and Fox News told them they should be angry, so they get angry.
I had a coworker say to me, "I hate what they're doing. And as a veteran, I bet YOU must be furious about this..." I was really confused why I should be furious, because it was a military veteran in the first place who told them to kneel because it would be more respectful than just sitting there doing nothing. And furthermore, peaceful protesting is one of the things that I was sworn to uphold as a service member of the United States military. I've been in a few veteran forums, and most of them are either supportive or indifferent. Almost no veterans I've come across are angry about it.
So yeah, I also don't get why pro-America, pro-military, pro-Constitution conservatives are going bonkers over one of the most pro-American, pro-military, pro-Constitution things you can possibly do - peaceful and respectful protest.
It's a tactic that goes back decades if not longer. It's called "wrapping yourself in the flag". It's used to confuse the issue, to distract from things you don't want to discuss, to use up airtime that would be covering more difficult things otherwise, and to try and paint your opponent on a more difficult position as less patiotic than you.
It depends on an angry and defensive reaction from your fellow citizens/opponents, and the stupidity of the base or uninformed voter who makes decisions based on either party loyalty or 30 second sound bytes.
It also depends on being an issue that REQUIRES a response, because ignoring it opens politicians and public figures to charges of not being patriotic enough, or caring about veterans enough, or whatever other false flags it flies. So the response, denials, argument, all use up more air time, dissipate more energy.
If you're someone who's paying attention to politics or has some awareness of when you're being manipulated, or that it's a non-issue, it doesn't work.
And it's driven, now more than ever, by several very competitive news agencies that are trying to fill 525,600 minutes a year, all day long.
Using this issue and several others, Trump's biggest job is actually churning the media and the public conversation while his administration works in nearly perfect secrecy dismantling government programs in really important ways.
We, right now, have NO idea how much damage has been done (except that there are SIGNIFICANT amounts of it) to:
NIH
CDC
Dept of Energy
Dept of Education
Dept of Labor
Dept of the Interior
Dept of Homeland Security
National Park Service
Health and Human Services
DOJ
Environmental Protection Agency
Dept of Transportation
Dept of State
100+ Federally supported programs for the entire spectrum of needs-based and development
CPB
Not even a complete list, as long as it is. But some people are watching and reporting. Some people are fighting to preserve crucial services. And, once the dust settles around Trump's distractions, it will become clearer. Hopefully not before the entire structure is destroyed.
Quote: EvenBobTrump live on Fox now at a campaign
rally in MN. The camera pans the crowd
and it's literally crammed to the rafters,
thousands of people. And thousands
more outside that couldn't get in. MN
is a blue state, go figure.
They go nuts every time Trump makes
a point. They chant CNN SUCKS and
BUILD THAT WALL, it's really great.
CNN will report 1000 attended, just wait.
“Other networks ignore presidential rally”
lol
Quote: lilredroosterAwwww shucks.
the executive order ending the actions re the kids must have really hurt you guys who liked it.
BOOHOOHOO for you guys. BOOHOOHOO.
Don't worry. 𝑻𝑹𝑼𝑴𝑷𝒀 𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑳𝑳 𝑳𝑶𝑽𝑬𝑺 𝒀𝑶𝑼. 𝑯𝑬'𝑺 𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑳𝑳 𝑮𝑶𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑻𝑶 𝑻𝑨𝑲𝑬 𝑪𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑶𝑭 𝒀𝑶𝑼.
sure he is. it's a 𝐋𝐎𝐂𝐊.
What does this post say after "Don't worry"? I'm getting an error. I've bolded the part that's garbled for me. And paste won't help: can someone just type it? And tell me if there's anything added, like quote marks, formatting, some other thing? Thanks.
Also, is everyone reading the entire text of this clearly, or are some of you seeing Xs enclosed in rectangles? This oddity is showing up nearly every day in a few posts for about a month now, increasing in frequency the last few days.
Trying to trouble shoot but don't know what to report.
Thanks again.
Quote: beachbumbabsGeneral warning. If the current level of rudeness and attacks keeps up, either we will have to close all the politics threads, or we will go to zero tolerance suspensions. Under which, about 8 posts would qualify in the last 24 hours.
Please take it down a couple of notches. Thank you.
Is this acceptable under these new rules? Or are some animals more equal than others?
Quote: billryanAmazingly, our soulless POS turned out to have more heart than our phony neo-fascists members.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: lilredroosterAwwww shucks.
the executive order ending the actions re the kids must have really hurt you guys who liked it.
BOOHOOHOO for you guys. BOOHOOHOO.
Don't worry. 𝑻𝑹𝑼𝑴𝑷𝒀 𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑳𝑳 𝑳𝑶𝑽𝑬𝑺 𝒀𝑶𝑼. 𝑯𝑬'𝑺 𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑳𝑳 𝑮𝑶𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑻𝑶 𝑻𝑨𝑲𝑬 𝑪𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑶𝑭 𝒀𝑶𝑼.
sure he is. it's a 𝐋𝐎𝐂𝐊.
What does this post say after "Don't worry"? I'm getting an error. I've bolded the part that's garbled for me. And paste won't help: can someone just type it? And tell me if there's anything added, like quote marks, formatting, some other thing? Thanks.
Also, is everyone reading the entire text of this clearly, or are some of you seeing Xs enclosed in rectangles? This oddity is showing up nearly every day in a few posts for about a month now, increasing in frequency the last few days.
Trying to trouble shoot but don't know what to report.
Thanks again.
It’s coming up in a weird font. But it says “ TRUMPY STILL LOVES YOU. AND HE’S GOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOU. sure he is. It’s a LOCK.”
And I had to type that out. I couldn’t remove the formatting any way I tried. I don’t know how on earth he got that messed up text.
Quote: beachbumbabs***EXCERPT***525,600 minutes
Thanks Babs - now I have that song from the show RENT stuck in my head lol
Quote: billryanAmazingly, our soulless POS turned out to have more heart than our phony neo-fascists members.
Nobody in this forum gets to call any other members Nazis. From either side. Simply not going to have it. Boz did it. Now Bill does it.
This is the kind of post I made the general warning about. Nobody. Not a joke. Nothing but a slur that lowers the level of discourse.
3 days.
Checked to make sure I'm not erring in the usage before treating this as synonymous and making the subsequent suspension.
Quote: Wikipedia "neofascism"
Groups identified as neo-fascist in the United States generally include neo-Nazi organizations and movements such as the National Alliance, and the American Nazi Party. The Institute for Historical Review publishes negationist historical papers often of an anti-semitic nature. The alt-right—which covers a broad range of groups, from authoritarian right-wing technocrats and neo-monarchists to neoreactionaries and white nationalists—is also often included under the umbrella term "neo-fascist", as many adhere to a radically authoritarian philosophy.
Quote: gamerfreakQuote: beachbumbabsQuote: lilredroosterAwwww shucks.
the executive order ending the actions re the kids must have really hurt you guys who liked it.
BOOHOOHOO for you guys. BOOHOOHOO.
Don't worry. 𝑻𝑹𝑼𝑴𝑷𝒀 𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑳𝑳 𝑳𝑶𝑽𝑬𝑺 𝒀𝑶𝑼. 𝑯𝑬'𝑺 𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑳𝑳 𝑮𝑶𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑻𝑶 𝑻𝑨𝑲𝑬 𝑪𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑶𝑭 𝒀𝑶𝑼.
sure he is. it's a 𝐋𝐎𝐂𝐊.
What does this post say after "Don't worry"? I'm getting an error. I've bolded the part that's garbled for me. And paste won't help: can someone just type it? And tell me if there's anything added, like quote marks, formatting, some other thing? Thanks.
Also, is everyone reading the entire text of this clearly, or are some of you seeing Xs enclosed in rectangles? This oddity is showing up nearly every day in a few posts for about a month now, increasing in frequency the last few days.
Trying to trouble shoot but don't know what to report.
Thanks again.
It’s coming up in a weird font. But it says “ TRUMPY STILL LOVES YOU. AND HE’S GOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOU. sure he is. It’s a LOCK.”
And I had to type that out. I couldn’t remove the formatting any way I tried. I don’t know how on earth he got that messed up text.
Thank you very very much.
I'm guessing it's a font plugin my phone doesn't support, maybe a recent upgrade on Apples that Android doesn't have. Although there are different concurrent Android builds, too, and mine is a lower one than the smartest phones.
General warning. If the current level of rudeness and attacks keeps up, either we will have to close all the politics threads....
I see you are working on your bluffing skills.
Quote: AxelWolfQuote: beachbumbabs
General warning. If the current level of rudeness and attacks keeps up, either we will have to close all the politics threads....
That would be interesting. They get
more traffic than 10 other threads
combined. Interesting indeed..
Quote: EvenBobThat would be interesting. They get
more traffic than 10 other threads
combined. Interesting indeed..
It is a sort of law of forums that they all eventually become mostly political. Some take longer, but since 1991 it is all I have seen happen.
That didn't even take a day! Proof that it was never about "separating kids from their parents." It is about wanting an issue and wanting open borders!
Quote: aceofspadesYou are cheering for EO's -- which come about as close to ruling as a dictator as you can get in this country -
you are badly mistaken Sir.
any EO can (and has been on several occasions) be challenged and overturned by U.S. Courts after a legal challenge is mounted.
an EO is not remotely similar to the actions of a dictator, such as executing his own people merely on a dictator's word.
Quote: ams288
“Other networks ignore presidential rally”
lol
That's probably because they know Trump won over a year and half ago and are confused as to why Trump is still having campaign rallies like it's 2016.
Quote: EvenBobThat would be interesting. They get
more traffic than 10 other threads
combined. Interesting indeed..
That's kind of sad considering this is a gambling forum.
Then again I'm one of the ones contributing to the problem.... haha....
Quote: AZDuffmanIt is a sort of law of forums that they all eventually become mostly political. Some take longer, but since 1991 it is all I have seen happen.
And we've already proved Godwin's Law
Quote: AZDuffmanDemocrats slam Trump's executive order for detaining families 'indefinitely'
I believe Obama had the same "indefinite" policy as well... and he got a lot of crap for it, too. I don't know who from, though.
Quote: AZDuffmanIt is a sort of law of forums that they all eventually become mostly political. Some take longer, but since 1991 it is all I have seen happen.
I hang around in a couple other forums where political stuff has been outright banned. They're much nicer places because of it. I'm surprised so many forums that have nothing to do with politics still allow it.
Quote: TigerWuI believe Obama had the same "indefinite" policy as well... and he got a lot of crap for it, too. I don't know who from, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012
"maintain that the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) already grants presidential authority for indefinite detention, the Act states that Congress "affirms" this authority and makes specific provisions as to the exercise of that authority.[14][15"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo
Quote: aceofspadesAnd we've already proved Godwin's Law
Godwin himself has recently stated any discussion of trump SHOULD result in a comparison to Hitler and Nazism
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanDemocrats slam Trump's executive order for detaining families 'indefinitely'
I believe Obama had the same "indefinite" policy as well... and he got a lot of crap for it, too. I don't know who from, though.
I hang around in a couple other forums where political stuff has been outright banned. They're much nicer places because of it. I'm surprised so many forums that have nothing to do with politics still allow it.
Probably because it drives traffic to the site
Quote: TigerWuI hang around in a couple other forums where political stuff has been outright banned. They're much nicer places because of it.
If you ban politics you pay a
price. The post and head count
go way down, and if you're at
all monetized that can really
hurt you. Politics are like the
weather, everybody has a strong
opinion about it.
As for Trump, I think he was weak in backing down on this issue. Though, politically he has little choice because it was causing nasty optics even within his own party. But, as have been pointed out countless times, these camps have been around for decades. The only difference is , Trump enforced the policy to families grouped together (or in many cases alleged families). This has always been the law (and it is illegal to bring your children to prison with you), Trump just actually enforced what should have been enforced all along.
If a child has their parents charged with a crime, and they get incarcerated, the children must be sent to a relative or a guardian, if one cannot be found and they do not have a sponsor they will wind up in the foster system. (This also happens to American children whose parents go to jail or prison.....)
This is just an issue brought up to counter Trump's all time high ratings. Most of the photos that people are outraged about are taken out of context (brief security intake areas for the rounded up children), or are 100% frauds (IE paid actors)...... This is a nonissue that the media has successfully drummed into a major issue, even though it only effects less than 2k illegal immigrant kids (since the vast number of them has been the same since Obama and earlier)....
People only care about kids when the other party is in power, its as simple as that. (keep in mind, most of these networks and supporters cheered when Obama drone struck innocent kids, who did nothing wrong and were no direct threat to us, in Syria and Pakistan, but now suddenly care about random kids welfare who are less innocent and more of a danger.....)
Quote: Gandler(keep in mind, most of these networks and supporters cheered when Obama drone struck innocent kids,
Total nonsense.
Quote: GandlerNobody cares about the kids. Unless you go down and agree to sponsor one, you are just talking from wherever....
Why don't you go down and kick one in the head to prove you don't care. I don't need to sponsor one, they already have parents.
Trump's stupidity in handling this is easy to show. He should have said, "we will work on correcting the parent child separation, but we will continue to process them or deport them, which ever is appropriate." That covers his goals. No reason to do anything else.
Quote: ams288Total nonsense.
Completely true.
Obama used far more drone strikes than anyone else. Most of the people killed were innocent and misidentified, many of them were minors. And, his party in congress loved it. You can call me a liar, but look at congressional history.....
But, its a moot point. This is media propaganda, its already blowing over, and Trump's rising poll numbers are totally untouched by this. Everyone knows this is a nonissue, but pretending to be outraged in public is the expected norm.... This is one of those issues, at parties you have to pretend to be impacted by, even though everyone knows its a charade.
1500-2500 kids being briefly detained in a security center is not a crisis...... There is not a threat to our health or security. If they get medically cleared and put into the foster system, great for them, if not, their home country will have to deal with them. Its not complicated, and should not be controversial. We need borders, we can't have people walk across.
If they were not detained and put into the foster system what would happen to them? Some would die, some would be kidnapped and exploited, some would end up who knows where, its not like they have many options wandering around a country with no family, no money, and no ID. Getting detained and fostered should (and probably is) a dream come true for most of them, if it isn't then they were probably working for a cartel, or were hoping to hide out with relative who previously entered illegally.... But, there is no better option..... If you have one you should propose it because you would be the first.
Quote: rxwineWhy don't you go down and kick one in the head to prove you don't care. I don't need to sponsor one, they already have parents.
Trump's stupidity in handling this is easy to show. He should have said, "we will work on correcting the parent child separation, but we will continue to process them or deport them, which ever is appropriate." That covers his goals. No reason to do anything else.
Because I don't hate the kids. But, I also don't have a righteous need to feel bad about them not having the best bedding in the world while in a brief security detention.
Also, if I spent the time and money to do that, that means I do care, I just care on the wrong side in your view)......
I agree though, he looked weak in backing down....
And, I hate to break it to you, nobody does care, its all about blurring the political optics. We have (far more) actual American kids living in worse conditions, they have my sympathy first. My sympathy is limited, and my empathy is even more limited. And, yes fellow nationals, and people who live near me, get precedence, over people that live thousands of miles away..... In my opinion the kids who get detained at the border are the lucky ones (compared to those who do not, and either get stuck living an undocumented life running from county to county, or even worse, get kidnapped and exploited).
More importantly the vast majority do not have parents. Of the 1500-2500 (tiny percentage of the total kids).... that "got ripped from their mothers arms". Well there mothers or fathers are in federal prison for a reason, sending a kid to a jail or prison at any level to stay is illegal (not to mention a horrible idea for endless reasons which I would rather not spend too much time typing or thinking about)......
This is exactly what I said, if they have no guardian or sponsor (again there is an idea for any bored white-knight), they will stay in detention for no longer than 20 days, and then be sent to the Refugee center, and eventually end up in the foster system if a better alternative cannot be found....
Quote: GandlerCompletely true.
Obama used far more drone strikes than anyone else. Most of the people killed were innocent and misidentified, many of them were minors. And, his party in congress loved it.
What is your evidence that they “loved it?”
Quote:You can call me a liar
I’ll take you up on that offer!
Quote: ams288What is your evidence that they “loved it?”
I’ll take you up on that offer!
Congressional Records. Now the Democrats are pushing for Drone Strikes because their guy is not the executive. Its probably too late.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/14/syria-strikes-democrats-demand-congress-approval-for-further-military-action
Again, its a moot point, and one that does not really offend me, its all politics, and children are always used by both sides to wedge guilt. Its the oldest meme that I can remember, the classic "But Think of the Children"....
Quote: rxwine
Meh pro black supremacy groups march there all the time do, racists are going to do what racists do.......
They probably are Trump voters, but, Trump does not need 400 votes, he already has too many to count.....
Quote: GandlerAnd, yes fellow nationals, and people who live near me, get precedence, over people that live thousands of miles away.....
The negative effects of the illegal immigrant "problem" are overblown to appeal to xenophobes.
Look at Trump's words, "The United States will not be a migrant camp." Sorry Trumpmeisters. we're not even close to being a migrant camp. Nor even with old policy will we be a migrant camp.
See below
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Quote:U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday North Korea was blowing up four of its big test sites and that a process of "total denuclearization ... has already started," but officials said there was no such evidence since a landmark summit last week.
Kim had himself a nice meal, then went and had a nap. I think that got accomplished.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-north-korea-total-denuclearization-started-officials-see-no-new-moves/ar-AAyYvqh?ocid=spartanntp
Foster care? Wow! That's like heaven to them.
Quote: TigerWuAs per Ace's suggestion, I decided to do a little googling to get some more info on the situation:
I am finding over time that people's grasp of the truth is slipping away. With the continued erosion of trust in media spun by the executive branch, one has to be careful and discernful when digesting the news.
But in the case of the immigrant children issue one just simply use common sense. The heavy-handedness of the current situation was a strategy put into force by the Trump administration this year. Their actions are not unlawful and the adminstartions message to asylum seekers is to pretty much not bother trying.
You can admit to yourself that previous administration's did the same thing but the evidence and numbers are not there to support the widespread callousness that this administration (16 months in, mind you) is now showing. Certainly there were cases were families were separately. But generally, up until a couple of months ago the DHS strategy was to process the application for asylum and let families stay together. That would be a humane approach that all adminstartions had followed until the xenophobes took over. And that approach makes common sense and matches the moral standards that Americans have had up until now.
The fact that the administration is and has been lying ad nauseum on the issue should tell you to look elsewhere for the truth. And the lies on this issue are blatant and any honest research will show that to be true.
Most american's ancestors arrived on a boat from another country in order to seek a better life, be it from Ireland to escape famine, from Russia and the East to escape political change, or for a myriad of other reasons, including as slaves. The current way for desparste people to enter the united states is via asylum, and, like it or not, US law is pretty clear on that process. The fact that America is turning away these people and forcing them to cross illegally (they are homeless and in a desparate situation, kind of the same situaiton when many of our ancestors arrived here) and not allowing due process is downright inhumane, yet not illegal.its just in my opinion the wrong way to treat people and children.
The argument that Obama and bush did it is moot -- it is clear that the enforcement of this policy by DHS winning of May of 2018 is widely different than the handling in the past, and if you cannot accept this fact, I might have some antipsychotics I can lend you.
Now frankly if America's wants to continue on its xenophobic spiral, put up widely detrimental tariffs, give tax breaks to the rich, destroy healthcare, treat people without means like crap, and run trillion dollar deficits, deny basic science, start a military space race and call that 'MAGA', then your definition of what makes America great is far different than the rest of the world's opinion of what was great about America.
The thing is that once you lose your moral superiority (and America certainly has) the rest of the world will leave you behind, and take its business, creativity, and innovations with it too, leaving America to go it alone. Given trump's praise for dictators in Putin, Kim and Jinping and his disdain for leading democratic leaders, it seems that this is exactly what Trump wants.
And history shows that this is not a good thing and never has been. You can say 'good riddance' to the rest of the world, but people who have that message haven't seen the rest of the world anyway.
from what I got out of all that was you admitting the previous administration didn't do enough to keep all the riffraff out from all the shithole countries.Quote: boymimboI am finding over time that people's grasp of the truth is slipping away. With the continued erosion of trust in media spun by the executive branch, one has to be careful and discernful when digesting the news.
But in the case of the immigrant children issue one just simply use common sense. The heavy-handedness of the current situation was a strategy put into force by the Trump administration this year. Their actions are not unlawful and the adminstartions message to asylum seekers is to pretty much not bother trying.
You can admit to yourself that previous administration's did the same thing but the evidence and numbers are not there to support the widespread callousness that this administration (16 months in, mind you) is now showing. Certainly there were cases were families were separately. But generally, up until a couple of months ago the DHS strategy was to process the application for asylum and let families stay together. That would be a humane approach that all adminstartions had followed until the xenophobes took over. And that approach makes common sense and matches the moral standards that Americans have had up until now.
The fact that the administration is and has been lying ad nauseum on the issue should tell you to look elsewhere for the truth. And the lies on this issue are blatant and any honest research will show that to be true.
Most american's ancestors arrived on a boat from another country in order to seek a better life, be it from Ireland to escape famine, from Russia and the East to escape political change, or for a myriad of other reasons, including as slaves. The current way for desparste people to enter the united states is via asylum, and, like it or not, US law is pretty clear on that process. The fact that America is turning away these people and forcing them to cross illegally (they are homeless and in a desparate situation, kind of the same situaiton when many of our ancestors arrived here) and not allowing due process is downright inhumane, yet not illegal.its just in my opinion the wrong way to treat people and children.
The argument that Obama and bush did it is moot -- it is clear that the enforcement of this policy by DHS winning of May of 2018 is widely different than the handling in the past, and if you cannot accept this fact, I might have some antipsychotics I can lend you.
Now frankly if America's wants to continue on its xenophobic spiral, put up widely detrimental tariffs, give tax breaks to the rich, destroy healthcare, treat people without means like crap, and run trillion dollar deficits, deny basic science, start a military space race and call that 'MAGA', then your definition of what makes America great is far different than the rest of the world's opinion of what was great about America.
The thing is that once you lose your moral superiority (and America certainly has) the rest of the world will leave you behind, and take its business, creativity, and innovations with it too, leaving America to go it alone. Given trump's praise for dictators in Putin, Kim and Jinping and his disdain for leading democratic leaders, it seems that this is exactly what Trump wants.
And history shows that this is not a good thing and never has been. You can say 'good riddance' to the rest of the world, but people who have that message haven't seen the rest of the world anyway.
Quote: AxelWolffrom what I got out of all that
You actually READ all of that???
No you didn't, admit it. I read the
first sentence and zoned out. Don't
kid a kidder, Axel..
Quote: boymimboI am finding over time that people's grasp of the truth is slipping away. With the continued erosion of trust in media spun by the executive branch, one has to be careful and discernful when digesting the news.
But in the case of the immigrant children issue one just simply use common sense. The heavy-handedness of the current situation was a strategy put into force by the Trump administration this year. Their actions are not unlawful and the adminstartions message to asylum seekers is to pretty much not bother trying.
You can admit to yourself that previous administration's did the same thing but the evidence and numbers are not there to support the widespread callousness that this administration (16 months in, mind you) is now showing. Certainly there were cases were families were separately. But generally, up until a couple of months ago the DHS strategy was to process the application for asylum and let families stay together. That would be a humane approach that all adminstartions had followed until the xenophobes took over. And that approach makes common sense and matches the moral standards that Americans have had up until now.
The fact that the administration is and has been lying ad nauseum on the issue should tell you to look elsewhere for the truth. And the lies on this issue are blatant and any honest research will show that to be true.
Most american's ancestors arrived on a boat from another country in order to seek a better life, be it from Ireland to escape famine, from Russia and the East to escape political change, or for a myriad of other reasons, including as slaves. The current way for desparste people to enter the united states is via asylum, and, like it or not, US law is pretty clear on that process. The fact that America is turning away these people and forcing them to cross illegally (they are homeless and in a desparate situation, kind of the same situaiton when many of our ancestors arrived here) and not allowing due process is downright inhumane, yet not illegal.its just in my opinion the wrong way to treat people and children.
The argument that Obama and bush did it is moot -- it is clear that the enforcement of this policy by DHS winning of May of 2018 is widely different than the handling in the past, and if you cannot accept this fact, I might have some antipsychotics I can lend you.
Now frankly if America's wants to continue on its xenophobic spiral, put up widely detrimental tariffs, give tax breaks to the rich, destroy healthcare, treat people without means like crap, and run trillion dollar deficits, deny basic science, start a military space race and call that 'MAGA', then your definition of what makes America great is far different than the rest of the world's opinion of what was great about America.
The thing is that once you lose your moral superiority (and America certainly has) the rest of the world will leave you behind, and take its business, creativity, and innovations with it too, leaving America to go it alone. Given trump's praise for dictators in Putin, Kim and Jinping and his disdain for leading democratic leaders, it seems that this is exactly what Trump wants.
And history shows that this is not a good thing and never has been. You can say 'good riddance' to the rest of the world, but people who have that message haven't seen the rest of the world anyway.
Your first three paragraphs nobody is distributing. Personally I am glad Trump is doing something that the prior Presidents have been afraid to do.
Most people who came here on a boat came through customs and were cleared. You do not just hop on a boat from Ireland and land on a random East Coast beach and wander into the countryside without checking in with anyone.
"The thing is that once you lose your moral superiority (and America certainly has) the rest of the world will leave you behind, and take its business, creativity, and innovations with it too, leaving America to go it alone. Given trump's praise for dictators in Putin, Kim and Jinping and his disdain for leading democratic leaders, it seems that this is exactly what Trump wants. "
But this quote is laughable. We were mocked by the Human Rights Council in the U.N. Mostly by countries whose whole existence is based around human rights violations. Trump did the right thing by pulling out instead of giving a platform to countries who execute immigrants at the border.....
Yes, America does commit many violations. But, the border is not one of them. If anything, even under Trump, America is too soft on the border.
One of the few policies that I disagree with are the tariffs because it has effected the economy. Every President has had a deficient.
I think having a space force is critical, because with the increase in space travel we need to be able to defend our borders from above as well. And, we will also need a force to defend our Space colonies. (though it will be not very different from what we have now, mostly people sitting in front of a computer monitoring satellites) .
I have seen a lot of the world (and many borders). Trust me, if you think America treats its captives at the border unfairly, you need to check out some middle eastern countries.... Actually you can stay closer to home, go to Mexico's southern border.....
Quote: GandlerNobody cares about the kids. Unless you go down and agree to sponsor one, you are just talking from wherever....
As for Trump, I think he was weak in backing down on this issue. Though, politically he has little choice because it was causing nasty optics even within his own party. But, as have been pointed out countless times, these camps have been around for decades. The only difference is , Trump enforced the policy to families grouped together (or in many cases alleged families). This has always been the law (and it is illegal to bring your children to prison with you), Trump just actually enforced what should have been enforced all along.
I thought Trump backed down a first as well. Then I waited a day. Instead, he played it really well Two thing will now happen. First. the EO will get struck down in court. When that happens, Trump gets to give a huge SITYS and Congress has to actually act. At this point, Trump gets to demand a wall and other enforcement measures. And the Democrats have to do something or else they lose out on the issue.
Second, Trump has forced the hand of the people who supposedly care about the children. The families are now together, just in a camp together. This was always about open borders and catch-and-release. That is what the liberals want. It is what they now have to demand.
Quote: boymimboTheir actions are not unlawful and the adminstartions message to asylum seekers is to pretty much not bother trying.
Of course it is! Because the whole "asylum" thing is word games. It is just people trying to jump the line. Trump understands that word gets around. Word under Obama was that the welcome mat is out. Word under Trump is that if you get caught sneaking in, it will go bad for you. I prefer that word gets out. Fewer people trying to cross illegally is a very good thing.
Quote:Most american's ancestors arrived on a boat from another country in order to seek a better life, be it from Ireland to escape famine, from Russia and the East to escape political change, or for a myriad of other reasons, including as slaves. The current way for desparste people to enter the united states is via asylum, and, like it or not, US law is pretty clear on that process. The fact that America is turning away these people and forcing them to cross illegally (they are homeless and in a desparate situation, kind of the same situaiton when many of our ancestors arrived here) and not allowing due process is downright inhumane, yet not illegal.its just in my opinion the wrong way to treat people and children.
What does the fact that people came here on a bpat have to do with anything? I am sorry that life in their homeland is so bad, but we cannot make the USA a refugee camp. Canada showed the reality of this. Trudeau said, "COME ON IT" yet when they started to show up, reality set in.
Quote:Now frankly if America's wants to continue on its xenophobic spiral, put up widely detrimental tariffs, give tax breaks to the rich, destroy healthcare, treat people without means like crap, and run trillion dollar deficits, deny basic science, start a military space race and call that 'MAGA', then your definition of what makes America great is far different than the rest of the world's opinion of what was great about America.
I am sure the world loves a USA that acts as a sucker and gives away its wealth. But that party is over. No other nation does as much for the world. Currently the world is acting like a spoiled brat kid who has been told he needs to get a summer job if he wants any spending money.
As to the Space Coprs, that is a needed thing. China and Russia will be doing the same. By WWII it was clear an Air Force was needed. Space will be the next thing. If you so dislike militarization of space, turn off your GPS, as that is a military space program.
Quote: boymimboI am finding over time that people's grasp of the truth is slipping away. With the continued erosion of trust in media spun by the executive branch, one has to be careful and discernful when digesting the news.
You should replace "executive branch" with "just about every 'news' source / media outlet".
Quote: boymimboBut in the case of the immigrant children issue one just simply use common sense. The heavy-handedness of the current situation was a strategy put into force by the Trump administration this year. Their actions are not unlawful and the adminstartions message to asylum seekers is to pretty much not bother trying.
I think that's the point.
Quote: boymimboYou can admit to yourself that previous administration's did the same thing but the evidence and numbers are not there to support the widespread callousness that this administration (16 months in, mind you) is now showing. Certainly there were cases were families were separately. But generally, up until a couple of months ago the DHS strategy was to process the application for asylum and let families stay together. That would be a humane approach that all adminstartions had followed until the xenophobes took over. And that approach makes common sense and matches the moral standards that Americans have had up until now.
Xenophobes? Why is it that those who want to protect our border are instantly labeled xenophobes? Same applies to those who don't support "feminism" are called misogynistic or those who don't support BLM (gag) are called racist. I mean, I know why the liberals do it, but I'd like some logic or truth behind it.
Quote: boymimboThe fact that the administration is and has been lying ad nauseum on the issue should tell you to look elsewhere for the truth. And the lies on this issue are blatant and any honest research will show that to be true.
It goes both ways.
Quote: boymimboMost american's ancestors arrived on a boat from another country in order to seek a better life, be it from Ireland to escape famine, from Russia and the East to escape political change, or for a myriad of other reasons, including as slaves. The current way for desparste people to enter the united states is via asylum, and, like it or not, US law is pretty clear on that process. The fact that America is turning away these people and forcing them to cross illegally (they are homeless and in a desparate situation, kind of the same situaiton when many of our ancestors arrived here) and not allowing due process is downright inhumane, yet not illegal.its just in my opinion the wrong way to treat people and children.
So what? Seriously, who cares how stuff happened in the past? If I were to use a liberal twist-a-roo, I'd say, "But in the past, we had slavery, women couldn't own property or vote, there was segregation, and lots of other stuff, are you saying we should still have all that?!", but I won't, since that's retarded logic. The truth is, things were different in the past. The Irish famine was 150+ years ago. The United States was very different then. History isn't my strong suite nor is the history of immigration in the United States, but I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say the immigration of today is far different than in the past....much of it likely because this was all new (to Europeans).
Quote: boymimboThe argument that Obama and bush did it is moot -- it is clear that the enforcement of this policy by DHS winning of May of 2018 is widely different than the handling in the past, and if you cannot accept this fact, I might have some antipsychotics I can lend you.
I don't know what they (Obama [ugh] and Bush) did in the past, nor do I particularly care. Other than, of course, if they weren't actually doing something proactively to get rid of and stop illegal immigration, then they weren't doing enough. If what is going on now (or just recently) is vastly "over-the-top" compared to the past, then they weren't doing it right.
Quote: boymimboNow frankly if America's wants to continue on its xenophobic spiral, put up widely detrimental tariffs, give tax breaks to the rich, destroy healthcare, treat people without means like crap, and run trillion dollar deficits, deny basic science, start a military space race and call that 'MAGA', then your definition of what makes America great is far different than the rest of the world's opinion of what was great about America.
Xenophobic spiral? Destroy healthcare, treat people without means like crap, deny basic science? Is there any truth to any of that or is it the usual doublespeak we hear nowadays?
Quote: boymimboThe thing is that once you lose your moral superiority (and America certainly has) the rest of the world will leave you behind, and take its business, creativity, and innovations with it too, leaving America to go it alone. Given trump's praise for dictators in Putin, Kim and Jinping and his disdain for leading democratic leaders, it seems that this is exactly what Trump wants.
Lol, wait WHAT???? Having moral superiority is exactly what would leave us behind. It seems like there is a growing theme now where people want to be "more than fair" (which in turn is actually unfair) when it comes to that kind of stuff. Just look at how often the media and people alike go straight to the fact someone may have been unarmed when they get shot. Or when some people (idk how) complain about this mythical "wage gap" like it's a problem or needs fixing. Or social justice. Overabundance of political correctness. (Not like, "You can't call black people n_ggers" but crap like "You can't say mankind, you have to say humankind, because mankind is patriarchal and misogynistic and that's not beneficial to safe spaces," because some people have logic that's as good as AIDS.) Or they pretend to care about .... whatever the newest and hip thing is to "care" about.
Moral superiority is just that -- people thinking they're superior to someone else because they pretend to have higher morals than someone else. It's in the liberal playbook. Just wait a few days, weeks, or months before the new fad comes out and the media will let you know what to be mad about or care for. You know it's true.
But what's even more ridiculous than that is the notion that we'd get "left behind". My computer is telling me it's 2018 right now, which means according to literally everyone, the USA is the world's superpower. We have the best.....well, just about everything.
Quote: boymimboAnd history shows that this is not a good thing and never has been. You can say 'good riddance' to the rest of the world, but people who have that message haven't seen the rest of the world anyway.
Again, what are you talking about? And why do you think that would even happen. You really think because (supposedly) we have "low morals" that other countries are gonna be like, "Nah, sorry USA, but you been treating them illegal sneaky Mexicans undocumented humans* unfairly, so we're just not gonna do business with you anymore."
Not sure if "undocumented humans" is still the politically correct thing to say. Should it just be "humans" because using the word "undocumented" infers they should be documented and that it's a negative stigma to not be documented? Maybe if someone is labeled "undocumented" they won't feel safe and they'll get triggered due to macro-aggressions or some other BS.
