20% of what?

(This question is mainly for roulette but I guess it can be for any casino game) >> I have read many times to shoot for 20% profit, then leave. Is that 20% of your BR or 20% of your buy in? Opinions please......Ken

Well, for me, my little BR is my buy in, so there's no distinction. I imagine, though, that the goal is to practice restraint and leave while you're ahead, so I'd say 20% of bankroll.

Quote: mrjjj

(This question is mainly for roulette but I guess it can be for any casino game) >> I have read many times to shoot for 20% profit, then leave. Is that 20% of your BR or 20% of your buy in? Opinions please......Ken

The reference is to buy in.

Had you bothered to read any of John Patrick's books, that fact would be crystal clear.

Which leads me to a question: HAVE you bothered to read any of his books?

If not, why do you post on his board?

Roulette is not an expected money maker. Play for fun or don't play at all. The more you play the more you lose. It's dumb to play expecting to win.

Quote: MrV

The reference is to buy in.

Had you bothered to read any of John Patrick's books, that fact would be crystal clear.

Which leads me to a question: HAVE you bothered to read any of his books?

If not, why do you post on his board?

.....I'll post where ever I damn well please and without your permission I might add. Ken

Quote: mrjjj

(This question is mainly for roulette but I guess it can be for any casino game) >> I have read many times to shoot for 20% profit, then leave. Is that 20% of your BR or 20% of your buy in? Opinions please......Ken

Its twenty percent of your buy-in. Although sometimes you see people buying in for a rather large sum but betting fairly small amounts wherein they would have to have phenomenal luck to get to 20 percent of the buyin. I don't know if I would necessarily agree with that figure. It would seem that if I had good luck very promptly I would be more likely to linger, but some people are disciplined and actually abide by their self-imposed constraints. They don't always win, but when they do win,,, they take those winnings home with them.

If you do this you will just win 20% 100 times and lose your whole bankroll trying to get to the 20% 22 times. You are at a 5% disadvantage no matter what you do.

It's a meaningless concept. Get your 20% profit, then leave--what, to never come back again? To come back tomoroow? Next week?

Patrick is a gambling ANTI-authority, and proof of that is that he doesn't realize that it's all one long session. If you are going to gamble again at some point in the future, then the time between this bet and the next is arbitrary, and has no impact on your eventual results.

mrjjj

I only play craps, but this could be for any casino game, some of the books say that you should play for a 20% win goal, which is a good concept if you have bigger buy-ins!

20% of your buy-in, good starting point! At lease if you stuck with that you would be ahead when you walked out the doors in most cases! Sounds good, when you think about it, although how many players are going to walk into a casino with a $100, win one $20 bet and walk out?

The object of playing any casino game is adding to your bankroll, every time you walk into a casino, $100 BI with $4000 BR walk out with more than you BI for the day and you had a good day. Then add what you won to your BR, so somewhere in you progression of playing you will feel comfortable in stepping up you buy-in to the next level!

The equation is very simple, the bigger you’re BI the faster you can win your target goal for the day! There are only about 10% of all players that will follow any kind of plan when it comes to gambling, most players are just playing for the fun of the game. They like that adrenaline kick they get when they do win, and do not care about losing.

You find this with almost every player, for them it’s entertainment! For the guy that has no money and only has a $100 BI the 20% win would become a problem, he just had to drive for over an hour to get to the casino to play, if he has one it the state he lives in.
His 20% win would not even pay for his gas! Then you have the guy that flies to Vegas, and I would hope that he has more than a $500 BR for a 5 day stay, but most will not!

For these players it becomes quite obvious it would be hard to ever build there bankroll if they stuck to walking out the door when they just won 20% of their buy-in!
So you have to come up with a plan that will allow you to make profit, and build your bankroll.
So if you look at realistically, and keep adding profits to you’re profits, and you’re buy-in as you are playing you just might be able to beat the casinos! Even with a $100 buy-in, if you play it smart you can make good profits, but you have to realize you are going to take more of a risk to start with, and use larger unit bets, so you can regress down. Then press up your bets once they have paid for them self, and you have a profit!

Nothing should be written in stone when you are playing, if you only shoot for that 20 % win goal you would never win in the long run. Adding profit to you’re buy-in and at the same time taking profit off the table is the only way you will ever win. This should be a constantly changing profit plan, and should be re-evaluated with every seven out!

You started with the $100 buy-in, after the first seven out you now have $175 in your chip rack, $25 goes to you’re buy-in $50 goes to profit! Next bets you put on the table are the same ones that you started with on the first session, you do not add to those bets. You just beat the table one time, and should not give the table a chance to beat you out of the money you just won. Greed will kill you every time, on the next roll you now make a $50 profit, split it with you’re buy-in and profit.

Every time there is a seven out, it’s time to do a re-evaluated of how you are doing, then at some point making that decision as to when you are going to walk out the door. When you start to lose, it’s time to walk! By adding to you buy-in and you’re profits at the same time, when you start to lose you can put a stop limit on your losing! OK you added $75 to you're buy-in and that is where you will stop playing if you lose it, at that point it does not matter how much of a profit you have, you still have you’re original buy-in and what ever you’re profit is!

The money you added to you’re buy-in was what you lost for today!

Never ever walk out of a casino, if you are winning, I have seen this way to many times, where a player is winning big, and the wife or buddies wants you to leave, you are getting lucky go along for the ride, you may never get to ride on a winning wave again!

My wife wants to kill me all the time, so I will not play if we are going some place too see a show or out to dinner with someone else. Make sure that you have the understanding with who ever you are with that you will not walk out on a winning session! By the way my wife will not go to a casino with me for that very reason, with out asking how long do I plan on staying, winning is a lot harder than losing, you can lose any time you walk into a casino, and most players do, winning is the hardest part of gambling, so don’t give up a winning streak!

I have one casino that our Corvette Club likes to go to for dessert when we are going for a run around town, and have a prearranged agreement with my wife as to if I will play there after we are done with the club, most of the time it’s no dear, I will not play when we are done, anything for you my love!

There will be times that you go on tilt, and you do give back more money then you had planned, it does happen to the best of us! That is one reason why you shouldn’t walk into a casino, with your full bankroll. I take want I can afford lose and leave the rest at home. Yes I have been known to go on tilt before, and that is the reason I leave it at home!

You’re BR allow you to gamble, you’re BI allows you to play the session you are playing today! You need to keep adding to you’re BR every time you play. So you can weather the storm when you lose!

Nobody wins all the time, I don't care what they are writing about, in some of the great fiction books on gambling, if the writer is saying he makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing craps, and never loses, you might just want to learn to read between the lines, something is wrong with the picture he is painting for you!

Quote: mkl654321

It's a meaningless concept. Get your 20% profit, then leave--what, to never come back again? To come back tomoroow? Next week?

Patrick is a gambling ANTI-authority, and proof of that is that he doesn't realize that it's all one long session. If you are going to gamble again at some point in the future, then the time between this bet and the next is arbitrary, and has no impact on your eventual results.

....This is always a hot topic and you made good points. I have to agree with mkl (although I cant stand the guy). 'Time' is almost meaningless. When are you ALLOWED to return to the casino? The next day? Does that mean 24 hours? What if its only 19 hours, is that cool? (I like to see where people have their line drawn) Ok, so 19 hours is alright, what about 16 hours, still ok? Ken

Quote: mrjjj

.....I'll post where ever I damn well please and without your permission I might add. Ken

That dodges the question, which is what you always do.

I will ask it again: HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HIS BOOKS?

Even an idiot should know enough to read an author's writings before trying to ingratiate himself with him.

I mean, how can you become an accomplished brown noser without first sticking your nose in his sh*t?

You certainly are brown nosing on his board.

Answer the question: have you read any of his books?

Quit tap dancing.

Quote: MrV

That dodges the question, which is what you always do.

I will ask it again: HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HIS BOOKS?

Even an idiot should know enough to read an author's writings before trying to ingratiate himself with him.

I mean, how can you become an accomplished brown noser without first sticking your nose in his sh*t?

You certainly are brown nosing on his board.

Answer the question: have you read any of his books?

Quit tap dancing.

@Bigg Deel >>> First off, I dont answer to you, lets get that straight.

"have you read any of his books?" >>> I'll tell ya what. Have someone else on this board ask THAT question and I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to answer it. I won't answer you cause you are out to cause trouble and stir the pot. How many different user names? lol Another point....why do I have to read HIS books? I'm looking for OPINIONS from everyone. Whats the rule here? I can only ask people who wrote a few books? Ken

Nice tap dance.

I'll take it to mean "No, I haven't read any of his books."

Got it.

You posted the exact same post on JP's board, referring to his hoary rubric about 20%: it's his tar baby, a key point of his controversial money management theories.

Had you bothered to read his book(s), the answer would have been obvious.

I urge you to read at least one of his books before trying to belly up to the bar; to do otherwise is both disrespectful and a waste of everyone's time.

"it's his tar baby, a key point of his controversial money management theories" >>> Its his OPINION, nothing else bro. Like I said, have someone else ask the other question and I WILL answer but not to you. You are HERE to cause trouble, very obvious. His books are opinions, nothing more. It sounds like you are getting some kind of a kickback from SALES, am I wrong? lol Ken (how many user names for you?)

Quote: mrjjj

" Like I said, have someone else ask the other question and I WILL answer but not to you.

Here goes : mrjjj, have you read that guy's books?

Quote: weaselman

Here goes : mrjjj, have you read that guy's books?

....Thank you sir. I read one of his books and I respect his OPINIONS. I have around a dozen roulette books stored away in the closet somewhere. Ken

Quote: mrjjj

....Thank you sir. I read one of his books and I respect his OPINIONS. I have around a dozen roulette books stored away in the closet somewhere. Ken

Hmmm...

So, if you HAVE read one of his books, which I must assume went on at length about win goals and loss limits: why then did you feel the need to ask the question?

Quote: MrV

Hmmm...

So, if you HAVE read one of his books, which I must assume went on at length about win goals and loss limits: why then did you feel the need to ask the question?

....I answered that ALREADY but will do so AGAIN. Those are his OPINIONS, nothing more. I look for MANY different views. Ken

Ah, I see now: You're a Troll.

Got it.

Quote: MrV

Ah, I see now: You're a Troll.

Got it.

...Its better than being a wannabee winner. hahaha :)

Ken