Pay play not free play

Pay play not free play



I guess it finally happened, a new low I never really imagined. We have not been going to Mountaineer Casino in West Virginia for the most part since Eldorado took over, because free play and the machines became noticeably stingy. The free play formula had changed where many people had offers drastically cut 50-70% approximately or dropped altogether. Someone said they were the other day and there were only 8 cars parked there.

So today's mail, my sister was offered $5 free play once a week, but only after FIRST getting 30 tier points, which is $300 coin-in. What a f***Ing joke. They might as well get a bull dozer and tear it all down if this is what it's coming to. They're basically saying if you lose $50, we'll give you $4, we cannot afford taking a chance on you driving 45 minutes here and robbing us of $4.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Pay play not free play



I guess it finally happened, a new low I never really imagined. We have not been going to Mountaineer Casino in West Virginia for the most part since Eldorado took over, because free play and the machines became noticeably stingy. The free play formula had changed where many people had offers drastically cut 50-70% approximately or dropped altogether. Someone said they were the other day and there were only 8 cars parked there.

So today's mail, my sister was offered $5 free play once a week, but only after FIRST getting 30 tier points, which is $300 coin-in. What a f***Ing joke. They might as well get a bull dozer and tear it all down if this is what it's coming to. They're basically saying if you lose $50, we'll give you $4, we cannot afford taking a chance on you driving 45 minutes here and robbing us of $4.

I didnt know moutaineer was taken over. I have seen the earn X to get x before at the meadows. My wife got that the month before they stopped sending her monthly mailers.

Quote: GWAE

I didnt know moutaineer was taken over. I have seen the earn X to get x before at the meadows. My wife got that the month before they stopped sending her monthly mailers.

Last summer it was official Eldorado Resorts took over MTR gaming, the company started by buying up Reno casinos I believe. Such may be a possibility the offers are to disappear, I never understand how companies can believe such a thing works by increasingly reducing offers. It's possible I've seen something like this from Meadows before, sure as hell wouldn't remember participating by going to a place that gave me such an offer. It's pretty much a fact if I see such crap, I make a mental note I will not return for 6-12 months.

Let's see how well the borgata does when they reduce mail- and

Quote: onenickelmiracle

They're basically saying if you lose $50, we'll give you $4, we cannot afford taking a chance on you driving 45 minutes here and robbing us of $4.

Yeah, that is their attitude but will the players realize it? Remember that word 'free' exerts a powerful effect.

They sure ain't being generous and I'm sure that attitude is reflected in the slot chip settings and room comp policies.

Time to drop that place from your list of 'possibles'. They've sure dropped you from their list.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Last summer it was official Eldorado Resorts took over MTR gaming, the company started by buying up Reno casinos I believe. Such may be a possibility the offers are to disappear, I never understand how companies can believe such a thing works by increasingly reducing offers. It's possible I've seen something like this from Meadows before, sure as hell wouldn't remember participating by going to a place that gave me such an offer. It's pretty much a fact if I see such crap, I make a mental note I will not return for 6-12 months.

MTR is the company that bought Binion's downtown and the old Raceway Casino in Vegas, then ran them into the ground. Can't imagine any company being worse than they were.

How many other casinos are there in a 1hr drive?

Quote: gamerfreak

How many other casinos are there in a 1hr drive?

Four within just one hour, double that within 2, not mentioning small cafes everywhere in West Virginia. It turned out, I also got mail today, without a play first requirement. We both hadn't been there in the same amount of time, all visits coincide, so did assume it was a policy there. Maybe it will, I dont even understand their logic suddenly adding a significant play requirement upfront to get a measly lousy $5 free play. All I can gather is out of spite for not coming for their peanuts or a desperate attempt at reverse psychology.

Their sister property also seems to spoil offers as time goes by, sending smaller and smaller offers, never bumping back up, and doesn't allow free play to be used at video poker.

What kind of gambling is there in the small cafes? I've never spent much time in WV. Just the amount it takes to pass thru on 81.

Quote: billryan

What kind of gambling is there in the small cafes? I've never spent much time in WV. Just the amount it takes to pass thru on 81.

Old style slots like Little Green Men, Double Diamond 2000, Unicorn, Lucky Lionfish, etc., all listed with 8.01 holds, keno and video poker. No players club, free non-alcoholic drinks, free chips, free cookies, etc. I dont remember pay tables, assume nothing above 95% and pretty sure no bets over $2. I liked playing Double Diamond 2000, miss it in casinos.

http://www.americancasinoguide.com/casinos-by-state/west-virgina-casinos.html

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I guess it finally happened, a new low I never really imagined. We have not been going to Mountaineer Casino in West Virginia for the most part since Eldorado took over, because free play and the machines became noticeably stingy. The free play formula had changed where many people had offers drastically cut 50-70% approximately or dropped altogether. Someone said they were the other day and there were only 8 cars parked there.

So today's mail, my sister was offered $5 free play once a week, but only after FIRST getting 30 tier points, which is $300 coin-in. What a f***Ing joke. They might as well get a bull dozer and tear it all down if this is what it's coming to. They're basically saying if you lose $50, we'll give you $4, we cannot afford taking a chance on you driving 45 minutes here and robbing us of $4.

I find that the tables mail is pretty good in a sample size of one, also one visit on tables, so I might have been overrated because I'm such a pleasure to be around...who knows?

Either way, what do you expect when the, 'Best,' VP is sub-95% so the only thing even worth playing is the occasional must-hit or other progressive? Honestly, I almost get the impression you'd have to practically camp out there for an opportunity on any of that. In five times of being there in the last five years, I've only seen one machine that could have even conceivably been positive, and it was a must-hit by $500 that was being played.

Maybe instead of vultures can't be choosers it should be vultures have to choose to kill alot of time so as to already be present in the joint by the time the machine is about to get interesting.

Quote: FleaStiff

Maybe instead of vultures can't be choosers it should be vultures have to choose to kill alot of time so as to already be present in the joint by the time the machine is about to get interesting.

It really does vary from place to place. I only, 'Wait Out,' really high percentage plays and only if I think the person (body language, feeding machine singles or fives, etc.) is not long for the machine.

Some casinos (local) you go in and find some kind of play every single time, multiple plays, just the value of the plays you'll find varies. I've been to a casino in which, after about a dozen visits, a vulture could just do UX and have $150ish in value every single day just by going three times a day. Nobody's hitting that one regularly, but nor is it really near anything. Certainly not near me.

Two vultures come in, you're better to have a full time job at a gas station. Three, 'Regular,' vultures and it's, 'A little extra money.' Make it four and it's only worth a stop if you're going to be there anyway.

Things just vary a ton from one place to another.

I'm not a, 'Chooser,' in the sense that any play within my bankroll is good enough for me, but that's also because I enjoy doing it. I'm a chooser in terms of what places to play, though. I mean, I'll still check a, 'Useless to me,' place every few months if I'm nearby, anyway, never know when things will change. Couple mid-high limit UX machines with little or no competition and a place can become worth an hour drive in a hurry...or at least worth stopping if you're passing within a few minutes of it, anyway.

I should also point out my signature only refers to UX vulturing. Maybe a few other type of games. I'd classify progressives, must-hits and other things like that as, 'Machine AP,' but I did understand your post to mean anything machines.

Quote: Mission146

Two vultures come in, you're better to have a full time job at a gas station. Three, 'Regular,' vultures and it's, 'A little extra money.' Make it four and it's only worth a stop if you're going to be there anyway.

At some casinos, the action is so heavy than even 10-25 vultures can all make money.

In good places at good times, I might show up and have 3-6 hrs of continuous plays...before I circle around the casino & find nothing.
There are places for UX, where you can find continuous multipliers on some days for 22-24 hrs, except maybe 5-7 am.

I get $10 for 75 points at Gold Strike Tunica this month. Better than nothing though I guess...

Quote: mamat

At some casinos, the action is so heavy than even 10-25 vultures can all make money.

In good places at good times, I might show up and have 3-6 hrs of continuous plays...before I circle around the casino & find nothing.
There are places for UX, where you can find continuous multipliers on some days for 22-24 hrs, except maybe 5-7 am.

I would like to see a casino like that. California somewhere? I dunno where else it would be...lol

Quote: mamat

At some casinos, the action is so heavy than even 10-25 vultures can all make money.

In good places at good times, I might show up and have 3-6 hrs of continuous plays...before I circle around the casino & find nothing.
There are places for UX, where you can find continuous multipliers on some days for 22-24 hrs, except maybe 5-7 am.

I agree with all of that, I've not personally experienced anything as you described in the first sentence, but I am sure there are houses where that is the case. That's definitely true about the UX, and I think that is the case at the place I'm thinking of, but it's pretty apparent that nobody hits it at all (at least on the 12 or so times I'd gone there) so it would seem better for time value just to go two or three times a day even though you might lose a free multiplier here and there.

I just cannot imagine a day where people have to play so much(60xfp) to get free play. Drich said this is going to be the future before, but I cannot believe people are going to go for this or anywhere close to this. I've seen at Hollywood how the most conservative marketing offers already leave many thinking using a card is just creating a hassle by being marketed with offers to come back 10 times a month for peanuts. There is not a greed rationalization when comps must be paid for twice, once with past play and second with current play, to even be there if not already planned or desired. People won't come at all if they think they can't break the plateau or will come and not even use a card. Then the casino forfeits marketing attempts thinking they haven't come back in ages, unless the casino uses the utmost in creepy surveillance, like facial recognition and license plate tracking, then it's weird the patrons feel stalked.

Quote: tringlomane

I would like to see a casino like that. California somewhere? I dunno where else it would be...lol

Both Northern & Southern California are quite strong. Central California not. Some other states also very good.

I know five casinos which support double-digit hustlers.

Three casinos have 20-24 hr/day UX plays. Each one has 45-80 UX machines, and can take 2-3 hrs just to do one loop of all machines (checking all games), ... longer when people are playing. During prime-time at all three casinos, sometimes every single UX machine is being played...yep...all 80.

By now, there are locals who check every day at all three places. But once upon a time in 2009-2013, it was possible to be the only person checking UX at the casino that day (and maybe no one would check for 2-3 days).

As late as 2015, there were casinos with UX which might go 4-7 days without someone checking... (Something unheard of in Vegas even in 2010, one year after UX was released).

P.S. Some casinos with 45+ UX machines are not good for UX. Not enough play. If a majority of the UX machines are on bar-tops with non-UX games...not good. Also, some people at the bar hold their machine like their life depends on it (especially on weekends)...

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I'm sure there are more. Just look at your hourly rate finding plays. If it's too low, look for another place (if you are mobile).

If I don't find $12/hr "Theo" UX (Avg Mon-Fri-Sun...not just weekends), I leave for a better place (or don't even bother looking at UX, while waiting for other stuff).
Likewise for other AP'able games. Hint: Try to calculate the Theo for 2016 AGOZ games (non-progressive) by keeping data of a few hundred/thousand plays.

I left Las Vegas in late 2010, when my daily average of UX plays dropped below $200. ....in search of better places.

In ancient history times (late 2009 - early 2010), lots of loaded UX machines worth $40-50 each.
These days each UX machine is worth about $3-8/day (more on weekdays, or for high-denomination machines).

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Another tactic is too look for casinos with no competition (but fewer machines).
Most people play on one of the coasts or Nevada, but there are some gems in the middle of the country.

Just a few of the AGOZ games all to yourself can be an easy $200-400-1,000/day.
Play poker, and check the machines once an hour. Easy money.

Starting mid-2016 (after the AGOZ games were released around Feb), people started traveling everywhere scouting.
Saw lots of APs transiting whom I hadn't seen in a while...

Some of them found great locations. And I haven't seen them in over a year... :-)

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P.S. Due to the 2016-2017 great migration of APs looking for AGOZ machines, I haven't found UX very profitable since Sep 2016 (i.e. <5% of overall profits). Too many people at any location with lots of UX.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: mamat

In good places at good times, I might show up and have 3-6 hrs of continuous plays...before I circle around the casino & find nothing.

I agree with all of that, I've not personally experienced anything as you described in the first sentence, but I am sure there are houses where that is the case.

Oops. I meant plays of different games (not UX).

Typically any place this good picks up a resident hustler (someone who lives in the casino 24/7) or even a few resident hustlers (sharing a room). The "resident hustlers" usually get kicked out eventually.

So the value of a casino can be much higher "in between resident hustlers" ... and much lower if a hard-working resident is around.

Quote: mamat

Hint: Try to calculate the Theo for 2016 AGOZ games (non-progressive) by keeping data of a few hundred/thousand plays.

whats agoz?

I've seen a couple places do this now, where they're not changing their Free Play system, they're simply adding 1 more step before removing you from the mailers.

So basically there are buckets, and you get free play based off that. Say you get $100 twice per week. Well, if you don't play that often, next month you'll go down to $80 twice per week... and the next $50 twice per week, and the next $25 per week, then $10, then $5, then no mailers.

All they've done here is added 1 more additional step... after $5 FP twice per week, now if you drop "another bucket" you get "play X to get $Y". Someone must have determined that this still brings in enough people to warrant it, but essentially the casino is NOT taking anything away, but in fact ADDING something to their FP program. Look, I'm not saying it's not a joke (earn X points to get a whole $5 lol) but it's better than being no mailed if you are in fact intending to go back.

There is one thing about this I forgot to mention, after getting the points, the person has to go to a kiosk to activate the free play and it's not automatically added otherwise.

At times there have been good offers that require you to earn so many points to then get x in FP. Sometimes the math makes sense. But these have usually been on top of an offer of FP to start the day and then earn extra.

Quote: Boz

At times there have been good offers that require you to earn so many points to then get x in FP. Sometimes the math makes sense. But these have usually been on top of an offer of FP to start the day and then earn extra.

July offer for every Friday I got was "Play $100, Get $20 FP" (5%). On top of regular $25/week & $40/month.

Well, as it turned out, although the mail had the pay play requirements, there was free play immediately available.