Crooked promotion

Speaking of crooked Hillary, crooked elections, crooked media, crooked laws, lets not forget about crooked promotions in crooked casinos. Here is my beef.

Rivers casino in Pittsburgh starts a queen of hearts promotion, in the beginning 500 points on Saturday=1 drawing ticket. Somewhere about 15-20 drawings in, they must realize regular customers are getting drawn up to try and win this thing, which grows $10,000 a week "cashe". The crooked Rivers starts giving out free entries at this point, devaluing any entries earned big league. I like the casino decided to give away such a giant chunk of money, they can't possibly recover, just because $400,000 is making a difference, but how corrupt they make a drastic change in entries?

They're ending this drawing Saturday early guaranteeing the $400,000 because I'm guessing it has become out of control, but they're not advertising how they've rigged the drawing by flooding free entries into the barrel. People are going to be playing to earn entries not realizing how worthless they have become and lets just call that a fraudulent inducement. Some guy on facebook mentioned his getting 200 free entries, for example and you compare that to $200,000 on video poker. Bernie sanders was right, the business model of corporations is fraud. This is fraud, playing any money for this drawing is practically worthless and foolish, but most of the people are in the dark.

I don't know much about whatever all is going on there....but the way I interpreted your post, it doesn't seem like this is "fraud" or "crooked"....unless they were giving free entries to specific people (ie: host gives 10,000 entries to the super-star big-player ultra-loser). There may even be a case if the initial promotional rules had no mention of free entries. Not sure about PA law, but I don't think the casino can simply change the rules of the promotion mid-promo, without approval.

But, I would certainly be pissed if my drawing entries were devalued by people getting free entries.

Quote: RS

I don't know much about whatever all is going on there....but the way I interpreted your post, it doesn't seem like this is "fraud" or "crooked"....unless they were giving free entries to specific people (ie: host gives 10,000 entries to the super-star big-player ultra-loser). There may even be a case if the initial promotional rules had no mention of free entries. Not sure about PA law, but I don't think the casino can simply the rules of the promotion mid-promo, without approval.

But, I would certainly be pissed if my drawing entries were devalued by people getting free entries.

I would bet it's legal, at least by the opinion of anyone who would care. Don't know about the rules, just know from the patrons I talked with, when the free entries were new for me, they were new to them, this at a point which was way midstream. The people are told 500 points($500 coin-in slots, $1000 VP) equals one entry, but that's not true because 0 points means many entries for some. If you asked the casino, they would tell you the free entries are based on play, but it's past play, and I never thought this was fair midway through. I think people are misled about the value of 1 entry, so that's the fraud. We're just so used to this, we don't even see it being wrong anymore.

I think when I was well rated there on my view, I was getting anywhere from 2 to 10 times in free entries more than I was earning on any Saturday. I did not like that, because I knew the bigger the player, the more free they would get and as a smaller player, much better odds just sticking to entries from play as it had been done to my knowledge for months.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I would bet it's legal, at least by the opinion of anyone who would care. Don't know about the rules, just know from the patrons I talked with, when the free entries were new for me, they were new to them, this at a point which was way midstream. The people are told 500 points($500 coin-in slots, $1000 VP) equals one entry, but that's not true because 0 points means many entries for some. If you asked the casino, they would tell you the free entries are based on play, but it's past play, and I never thought this was fair midway through. I think people are misled about the value of 1 entry, so that's the fraud. We're just so used to this, we don't even see it being wrong anymore.

I think when I was well rated there on my view, I was getting anywhere from 2 to 10 times in free entries more than I was earning on any Saturday. I did not like that, because I knew the bigger the player, the more free they would get and as a smaller player, much better odds just sticking to entries from play as it had been done to my knowledge for months.

I agree with you. I think it's dishonest if they don't disclose that people get free entries as comps. Perhaps they peg it to " you should assume we comp EVERYTHING of value to our better players". After all, who knows what players are in a comped 2 br suite, vs a comped stnd room, vs a casino rate room, vs full rack rate?

I've seen high-end flyers from casinos who advertise drawings for gifts during hot seat play, and the flyer for high rollers says, come get your reserved gift. The sure thing reservation guarantees the gift, even with no play that day, but regular customers have to play to be eligible and still are unlikely to win the gift. Unfair? On some level, yes. But common. And similar on a smaller scale to your complaint.

But a promotion is different. Maybe just in the language they use, which strongly implies you are competing on an even field based on your play. Can't think.of the legal concept phrase I want to use, but something about explicit inclusion and exclusion. If they don't say explicitly "the ONLY way to earn entries is one per xxx points earned" then you should assume, no matter how strongly they imply it's a fair contest, that there are other ways they will award entries to their favored customers.

JMHO. Seems like there have been complaints against casinos before that have been successful in making your case about the misleading marketing.

Although it's not great - casinos do that particular kind of stuff with drawings a lot. It's no where near the worse I've seen but it sucks

Quote: RS

I don't know much about whatever all is going on there....but the way I interpreted your post, it doesn't seem like this is "fraud" or "crooked"....unless they were giving free entries to specific people (ie: host gives 10,000 entries to the super-star big-player ultra-loser). There may even be a case if the initial promotional rules had no mention of free entries. Not sure about PA law, but I don't think the casino can simply change the rules of the promotion mid-promo, without approval.

But, I would certainly be pissed if my drawing entries were devalued by people getting free entries.

I don't know much about whatever all is going on there....but the way I interpreted your post, it doesn't seem like this is "fraud" or "crooked"....unless they were giving free entries to specific people (ie: host gives 10,000 entries to the super-star big-player ultra-loser). There may even be a case if the initial promotional rules had no mention of free entries. Not sure about PA law, but I don't think the casino can simply change the rules of the promotion mid-promo, without approval.

But, I would certainly be pissed if my drawing entries were devalued by people getting free entries.

Of course it's crooked. And he has every right to be pissed(Unless they said this would be happening). I would lodge a complaint with gaming I doubt anything will happen but I don't think you have much to lose.
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Recently got kinda hosed on a drawing where every ticket counted. I had most of the tickets(not many were tickets in the drum, give or take 200 ) but was in competition with one of their favorite ploppies. Drawing rules stated the it was at 10 pm. But there was 2 different locations(a few others I work with were doing the other location). I talked to management as I had tickets at both locations and ask if they would be staggering the drawing so people could attend both drawings. They were very adamant and said the drums would be shut down a few minutes before and the drawings would take place at the designated time. So I had to choose what location I wanted to play and be at.

BTW. You could win multiple times.

They would not call names, only the numbers. They only gave you 1 or 2 min to to present your half of the ticket, so I recruited a few to help me go though the tickets. To get drawn and run out of time is my worst fear , especially since I have been in situations where I had thousands of tickets to go though and just barely found and presented my winning ticket. One time I was left with only 1 second left on countdown. This recent place was looking for any reason to screw me, they were upset I earned so many tickets "so easy".

The night of the drawing I parked myself at a machine next to the drawing drum a while before the drawing because I didn't trust the casino employees to have an honest drawing( I have been cheated before). There were just too many openings for shenannigans.

10 o'clock rolled around and they said the drawing would be delayed. That was fine except for the fact that I seen the shift supervisor adding their favrote ploppys tickets into the drum well after 10 PM, and they kept doing it. I complained but they gave me some BS. excuses why it was ok. I argued my case but by the time they went to upper management about the situation, the ploppy chick who was earning tickets had accumulated a bunch more (posibbly 25% of the drum)that unfairly made their way into the drawing. Eventully the upper mannagment put a stop to that, but I know it cost me a signifficant amount.

I received a postcard stating I have 200 bonus entries. I had the same thoughts as the OP. Keep in mind that they changed to 500 pts=20 entries for this drawing. I have no idea why they changed things.

I would be concerned that they've gifted 50,000 plus entries to their high rollers.

Quote: sabre

I would be concerned that they've gifted 50,000 plus entries to their high rollers.

I would too. Ask for the rules in writing. If they don't provide that to you, then I think you can forward your e-mail request to the State Casino Commission as part of your complaint. At the very least, you may make the casino think twice about deceptive promo's in the future.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know much about whatever all is going on there....but the way I interpreted your post, it doesn't seem like this is "fraud" or "crooked"....unless they were giving free entries to specific people (ie: host gives 10,000 entries to the super-star big-player ultra-loser). There may even be a case if the initial promotional rules had no mention of free entries. Not sure about PA law, but I don't think the casino can simply change the rules of the promotion mid-promo, without approval.

But, I would certainly be pissed if my drawing entries were devalued by people getting free entries.

Of course it's crooked. And he has every right to be pissed(Unless they said this would be happening). I would lodge a complaint with gaming I doubt anything will happen but I don't think you have much to lose.
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Recently got kinda hosed on a drawing where every ticket counted. I had most of the tickets(not many were tickets in the drum, give or take 200 ) but was in competition with one of their favorite ploppies. Drawing rules stated the it was at 10 pm. But there was 2 different locations(a few others I work with were doing the other location). I talked to management as I had tickets at both locations and ask if they would be staggering the drawing so people could attend both drawings. They were very adamant and said the drums would be shut down a few minutes before and the drawings would take place at the designated time. So I had to choose what location I wanted to play and be at.

BTW. You could win multiple times.

They would not call names, only the numbers. They only gave you 1 or 2 min to to present your half of the ticket, so I recruited a few to help me go though the tickets. To get drawn and run out of time is my worst fear , especially since I have been in situations where I had thousands of tickets to go though and just barely found and presented my winning ticket. One time I was left with only 1 second left on countdown. This recent place was looking for any reason to screw me, they were upset I earned so many tickets "so easy".

The night of the drawing I parked myself at a machine next to the drawing drum a while before the drawing because I didn't trust the casino employees to have an honest drawing( I have been cheated before). There were just too many openings for shenannigans.

10 o'clock rolled around and they said the drawing would be delayed. That was fine except for the fact that I seen the shift supervisor adding their favrote ploppys tickets into the drum well after 10 PM, and they kept doing it. I complained but they gave me some BS. excuses why it was ok. I argued my case but by the time they went to upper management about the situation, the ploppy chick who was earning tickets had accumulated a bunch more (posibbly 25% of the drum)that unfairly made their way into the drawing. Eventully the upper mannagment put a stop to that, but I know it cost me a signifficant amount.

Not to mention across the way they were handing out tickets to dilute the drum.