I have a gambling problem and I need help.

Quote: Rigondeaux

The reason a rat in a cage will take cocaine until it dies, is because he has been stuck alone in an empty cage. Put a rat in a cage with great food, toys and other rats, and he won't become a cocaine addict.

You're also still young and in school, OP, which is great. You have a lot to gain by nipping this in the bud. You can still have a great life. Compared to someone who is 50 and has already destroyed his life.

As a college kid he should be talking to college girls about this, not us. Eventually he will likely find one who will say to him "My room mate is out of town this week, why don't you come to my dorm room and screw my brains out?"

Quote: FleaStiff

As a college kid he should be talking to college girls about this, not us. Eventually he will likely find one who will say to him "My room mate is out of town this week, why don't you come to my dorm room and screw my brains out?"

That's a porno reality.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

This any better?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEXSiFzOfU

Not a big Journey fan, obviously they have some songs I like, however I don't think I know more than 30% of the words to that song. I don't really get the reference. I not even sure what that songs about. Now that I think about it there's some subtle drug and gambling references. But in all the times I heard that song I didn't associate it with anything other than 2 lost people meeting.

Quote: AxelWolf

Not a big Journey fan, obviously they have some songs I like, however I don't think I know more than 30% of the words to that song. I don't really get the reference. I not even sure what that songs about. Now that I think about it there's some subtle drug and gambling references. But in all the times I heard that song I didn't associate it with anything other than 2 lost people meeting.

Don't stop believing=no gambling problem=keep playing

Quote: FleaStiff

As a college kid he should be talking to college girls about this, not us. Eventually he will likely find one who will say to him "My room mate is out of town this week, why don't you come to my dorm room and screw my brains out?"

And in the possible event he has a problem socializing, he can play disc golf, bowl, play snooker or go fishing by himself, and look normal doing so. The casinos are the friend of the friendless, probably their biggest asset of attraction.

Quote: AxelWolf

Not a big Journey fan, obviously they have some songs I like, however I don't think I know more than 30% of the words to that song. I don't really get the reference. I not even sure what that songs about. Now that I think about it there's some subtle drug and gambling references. But in all the times I heard that song I didn't associate it with anything other than 2 lost people meeting.

South Detroit is Windsor, Ontario.

If he ***** a **** for money to gamble, then that's an addiction, but it's just a hobby he spends more time than he would like.

This thread should be a lesson for anyone who ever develops a gambling problem teaching them what not to do when seeking help.

Early in this thread (first page) the owner Zuga posted some good advice with some helpful links. Then suddenly it was removed. What’s up with that?

Although there was some good advice, it appears most here can’t relate to problem gambling because they just don’t lose. A gambling site filled with winning professional gamblers is obviously not a good place to find gambling problem help.

It is extremely possible that the OP doesn't want to stop gambling permanently, just wants to gamble a lot less than he is now, which is why I brought up the "Limit your money/bring a responsible friend with you to the casino," thing.

Quote: Nathan

It is extremely possible that the OP doesn't want to stop gambling permanently, just wants to gamble a lot less than he is now, which is why I brought up the "Limit your money/bring a responsible friend with you to the casino," thing.

From how he discribbed everything it seems like any of that would be a very slippery slope. I quoted some of the things he said and they sounded bad for him. It's beyond having fun, simply going on tilt or chasing losses.

Even if your suggestions could work there's very little value in attempting it. Even if he could control it, what's the best that could happen?

I think even planting seeds like that is harmful to the situation.

Just look at what happened to Kentry/ he got a bad haircut and got his butt beat in his fictional story

Hopefully the OP realizes he is going to have to be able to discriminate between good and bad advice here

and due to his addiction, not able to perhaps

Gambling addiction has a special problem, seems to me. I just see people addicted to other things like booze finally 'going under for the 3rd time', realizing they are going to die, and they don't want to die [some of them, some don't care and do die]. If they want to live, they finally have a chance to beat it. And, yes, sadly it usually comes down to this crisis point.

A problem gambler with no other problems doesn't face this. I think that means it is much harder to get sober, if that's the word. I guess a crisis point is reached eventually, but it's not between life and death.

OP, congratulations on only being 22 and already knowing you have a budding gambling addiction. Congratulations for acknowledging that chasing losses is a bad idea. Many people are twice your age and deny their vices. At 22, you should be out enjoying life, spending time with your family and friends, enjoying your jobs, going cruising for lots of chicks, etc. There is a quote someone said on another gambling website that I will give to you. This is a paraphrased quote but here it is. "When you are 80 years old and talking about your life to your grandkids and great grandchildren, would you rather say, "I let gambling steal the best years of my life, or would you rather say," I had a great and meaningful life, spending time with my family and friends?" Keep that quote in mind.

I personally think that the guy who told you "Oh, just bring a very limited bankroll with you or a friend who can tell you when it's time to go home," gave you misguided advice. That advice works if you are talking to someone who is only casually gambling occasionally and is not addicted, not for someone who is already starting to become addicted. Go to GA meetings and they can give you lots of good tips on stuff you can do to not gamble. As for you feeling that your family will ostracize you for gambling, tell them that you are coming to them because you are acknowledging you need to stop gambling and need their help. They should praise you for at least realizing that gambling your young life away is not working out for you and give you the love, support, and help you need and deserve. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you.

To quote slim shady- guess whose back

I gave the advice I gave about bringing a limited bankroll to the casino or a friend with you who can tell you when to go home because I thought the guy was looking for tips on how to control his gambling. I didn't really realize he was asking for help to stop gambling altogether.

I wonder What Would Kentry Do?

Quote: AxelWolf

I wonder What Would Kentry Do?

And yet another Kentry reference. Sigh....

I wonder why there are so many from so many different people

I think that most of the advice given to the OP has been off, and a little tone-deaf. Maybe quitting cold-turkey is best objectively, but it won't work. Living in Vegas but never gambling is like living in Hawaii but never going to the beach, or maybe living in Amarillo and never having a steak. It's damn near impossible.

Yes, I know that some people do live in Vegas and don't gamble at all. But for every one such person, there are hundreds who do gamble regularly. How do they survive? Some don't. But those who do, follow some simple rules:

1. Budgeting. This means both time AND money. When you lose your session bankroll, quit. When your time limit is up, quit.
2. Learn to gamble well enough so that you're fighting the smallest possible house advantage. Sharply limit the size of your bets.
3. Realize that gambling is entertaining, and your choice to use your spare time doing so is rational AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T TAKE TIME AWAY FROM DOING SOMETHING ELSE YOU WOULD ENJOY MORE.

Ultimately, only the OP can decide what works for him. When I lived in Vegas, I knew hundreds of what I would call "functional gambling addicts." They enjoyed their addiction, and had managed to fit it into their daily lives. Who's to say that they were making the wrong choices by spending their Saturday nights playing blackjack or video poker rather than line dancing, going to the movies, or sharing a hot tub with nubile maidens? (I know, I know, but you can't hit a royal when you're in a hot tub.)

Gambling addiction is so different from the other addictions it is associated with. Not that hard to spot a drunk or crack addict. Gamblers seem to be able to not only hold a job, but to have a successful career. Always thought I could spot a problem gambler.
WRONG !
Used to play into this illegal but very social card room. The owner's wife was a classy lady. Dressed to the nines and would fill in a spot at daily tournaments. Rock of Ages. If she called, I usually folded. If she raised, I definitely folded, Ran into her daughter a few years ago. Mom had been losing big time in Video Poker at a nearby casino.
Long story short, she hid the past due notices on bills and mortgages. Lost everything, Husband stood by her, but they now live in daughter's house and he works 2 jobs.
Actually covered for a guy on evening shift at work so he could go to GA meetings 8 PM Wednesdays. Until a month later I found out he was at a poker game previous Wednesday. Ivan took early retirement offer, blew thru that, kids college fund, and lost a car wash business. Lost wife and kids in the end.
Having a friend hold the money just means OP will not only lose his money, but a friend.

I just have a hard time thinking someone who barely loses $100 a month should be considered a serious gambling problem. I doubt he would score very high on a gambler's quiz at gamblers anonymous.

Hi,

Here's my perspective on your situation:

You know you have a problem, and you're willing to do something about it. So that's good! Maybe at this point you can't quit gambling altogether, which I think is unrealistic in the short term, but maybe you can manage your situation better?

You know about the odds and house advantages, so it seems you're at a better place than uninformed gamblers. You're also keeping a log of your play, so you're able to see patterns. Perhaps you can look at your situation this way: the odds are about the same whether you're betting the minimum or trying to win big money—so try betting the minimums, and track your unit wins and losses instead of dollar amounts.

You would still spend time at the table or video poker machine to forget your problems, but you'll minimize your losses. You'll occasionally be up a few units, or you'll be down a few units. You can imagine what those losses would have been like had you been betting hundreds of dollars instead of the minimum bet.

I started logging my play about 6 years ago, and am slightly ahead over that time. I've wondered if I made up for the losses I had when I was in my 20s—and guessed probably not. But at least I know that since the start of my tracking, I've been managing my money, and I'm ahead of the casino by a few betting units. Maybe one day you'll feel something as dopey as tracking betting units isn't worth the time and in the long run you can spend your time and money doing something else!

Hope this helps!

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I just have a hard time thinking someone who barely loses $100 a month should be considered a serious gambling problem. I doubt he would score very high on a gambler's quiz at gamblers anonymous.

And you would be WRONG.

Quote: FDEAD3709

And you would be WRONG.

I think that's a pretty harsh value judgment, one based on your lumping the OP together with the people you know who've had bad experiences.

I have known enough gambling addicts from when I lived in Vegas to know some that whether or not they were technically addicted, had devised strategies to keep their gambling from becoming too harmful. They played the games well, kept a limit on time and money spent, took advantage of deals and bargains (and comps), and kept their losses to a reasonable level.

And then I knew the people who had no such self-discipline and were constantly teetering on life's edge. I knew people whose Friday paycheck was always gone by Saturday morning. I knew people who were slowly bleeding their bank accounts dry--or who had already done so.

Should I lump those two groups of people together?

" . I doubt he would score very high on a gambler's quiz at gamblers anonymous. " And you would be wrong.
That's all. Please refrain from reading anything else into those 5 words. THANKS

+1

The person who decides if there's an issue or problem with his gambling is the gambler who says that gambling just isn't working for him.

The one thing is he plays fpdw, which earns money played right theoretically, but then his earnings go to the craps table. So his take is like a second job he never keeps the money. Maybe he should just stick to that and drop craps.

1.Did you ever lose time from work or school due to gambling?
2.Has gambling ever made your home life unhappy?
3.Did gambling affect your reputation?
4.Have you ever felt remorse after gambling?
5.Did you ever gamble to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?
6.Did gambling cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?
7.After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?
8.After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?
9.Did you often gamble until your last dollar was gone?
10.Did you ever borrow to finance your gambling?
11.Have you ever sold anything to finance gambling?
12.Were you reluctant to use "gambling money" for normal expenditures?
13.Did gambling make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?
14.Did you ever gamble longer than you had planned?
15.Have you ever gambled to escape worry, trouble, boredom or loneliness?
16.Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance gambling?
17.Did gambling cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
18.Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to gamble?
19.Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of gambling?
20.Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your gambling?

Most compulsive gamblers will answer yes to at least seven of these questions.

I thought those questions had more to do with lying, cheating, and stealing to gamble.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

The one thing is he plays fpdw, which earns money played right theoretically, but then his earnings go to the craps table. So his take is like a second job he never keeps the money. Maybe he should just stick to that and drop craps.

But you could also turn that around and say that the modest profit he earns from his VP sessions finances his craps losses. It's really no different, if you think about it, from saying that his VP sessions help to finance his pizza and beer habit (and we're talking about roughly the same kind of amounts here).

You can't really look at his situation from an AP perspective. What he has to do is maximize his utility. It's clear that he derives some enjoyment from his gambling activities. Now, he has to decide whether that enjoyment is worth the (so far) small cost. It is quite possible that continuing to gamble would be a rational decision on his part, even if he suffers some modest losses.

No. You haven't been an addict before.

I am a gambling addict. From scratch tickets to casinos I am very much a gambling addict. I live in Ontario, Canada. I self-excluded two years ago and I have no regrets.

I'm a smart guy. I know better than to put money on the horn-hi-yo. I know better than to play VP on a 96.5% machine. I know better than to play Pai-Gow poker at $25/hand and play the fortune bonus at a 6% disadvantage.

The problem is that the emotion and chemicals takes over the brains. The chemical adrenaline that you get when you hit something when you get the FireBet worth 4K. The chemical adrenaline when you hit the Royal at Pai-Gow and get the $750 payout. The adrenaline that you get when you hit the 4D+A at Multi-Strike at the 8x level for 4K. I've hit all of the those, and I've lost a hell of a lot more than that trying to get there. You make stupid bets even when you know better because the emotions take over logic.

I was hitting Fallsview weekly and most of the time not telling my wife about it. I would pull out up to 2K out of my bank and credit cards to fund my addiction. Many times I would end up even or ahead, but many times I would come home down $1800.

In the end I realized one day two years ago while just sitting there playing a multi-hand pickem machine, (this one) that this was a complete waste of time. And I broke the spell. I walked into the Responsible Gaming office within Fallsview and self-excluded myself. No more gambling in Ontario. And my wife no longer enables me.

Financially, the damage was done. I am still in a deep hole from all of that gambling. But now I gamble rarely. Seneca is just over the border and over the last two years I have been half-a-dozen times but I am extremely time-limited (2 hours or less). I've been to Vegas twice (which was an unmitigated disaster as I had virtually unlimited time to gamble) and just went to Reno for a few hours which was fine. I avoid the craps table because I make stupid bets. I play the good video poker machines with the 99+% returns. I still play Pai Gow because it goes slow.

I'm not cured by any sense of the imagination. I stay out of variety stores and leave my wallet empty because I'll buy $50 of Scratch tickets otherwise. I pretty much empty out my bank account every paycheck and pay bills, debt, and savings so that I have no disposable money to spend gambling. I have taken up other things instead of gambling when I feel the triggers (stress) to go. I keep myself busy with work, friends, church, and family and so far it has worked out.

I accept that I am who I am, recognize the triggers, and once in a great while, the addiction still take over. I'm human and now I can afford it. But that might be at most 1 or 2 times a year and it's fine. Other people will use alcohol, drugs, food, or some other (could be healthy) escape mechanism.

But don't accept rationalizing the habit or try to convince you that money management and advantage play works. It doesn't. If you feel like you are an addict, you probably are. You should seek counseling, especially if it is giving you financial stress or is taking time away from your family and friends, or jeopardizing your job. And if you don't want to go to counseling, I would suggest putting your credit cards in the freezer and minimizing your available cash. I would try to understand the triggers that make you need to go, understand them, and better yourself.

There are all kinds of gambling addicts who have resorted to crime, had to declare bankruptcy, and have offed themselves because of embarrassment and humiliation. Don't go down that path. Try to help yourself, and if that doesn't work, seek help.

Quote: boymimbo

But don't accept rationalizing the habit or try to convince you that money management and advantage play works. It doesn't. If you feel like you are an addict, you probably are.

You see, here's the problem. The vast majority of people don't even know how to define addiction, other than something like "doing something enjoyable too often or too much." Even academics struggle with this. So what we have is the popular conception from Alcoholics Anonymous, where if you're branded as an alcoholic, you must never never never never never never never never even watch a beer commercial for the rest of your life, let alone have a drink. Sure, this absolutist approach is necessary for some people. But it ignores the fact that millions of people are addicted to one thing or another and manage to cope with their addictions. "Cold turkey" or "you're a hopeless addict" is a false dichotomy.

I strongly disagree that managing one's addiction (gambling or otherwise) doesn't work. My observation of many, many friends confirms that it does--if for no other reason than that I saw many of those friends FAIL to manage their addictions. The ones who were successful gambling addicts, if you'll forgive my use of the term, were those who figured out ways to make their addiction less costly. Ironically, perhaps, it's easier to do that in Las Vegas--manage your gambling--than it is if the only fix within reach involves a two-hour drive to the Scalp the White Man Indian Casino and Bingo Parlor.

Another aspect of the popular view is that any addiction leads to an unstoppable death spiral. Have a glass of wine with dinner and it's only a matter of time before they find you dead behind a dumpster, clutching an empty bottle of Ripple. Play $5 blackjack once a week and before you know it, you're kidnapping the neighbor's poodle and selling him on EBay so you can play keno with the proceeds. In reality, addictive behavior, like most human behavior, is nuanced. I certainly sympathize with and understand your plight and applaud that you've learned to cope with it (albeit with substantial damage), but your situation applies to you alone. What works for you may not work for someone else, and vice versa.

I disagree. You know when you're addicted. Managing your addiction does work. If you are happy with your addiction and it isn't damaging your life, go for it. I certainly was for a while.

An addiction doesn't lead to an unstoppable death spiral either. I would say 90+% of the population who gamble are not addicts.

Boymimbo.

Thanks. I got a lot out of that long post. So, just thanks.

A couple of thoughts.

The most prevalent addiction in America, IMO, is the fitness addiction. Millions of them, and they're encouraged by everyone. It's annoying. It's expensive. It takes time and focus every day away from work, family, chores, other pleasures.

But people are encouraged to feed the addiction a thousand times a day, through interactions, media, advertising, their own endorphin cravings. No less an addiction for being "good" for them. Usually not referred to as one. Lots of very, very fit people in prison, though. There's a relationship.

So, addiction is emotional . Going for that high. I was an ATC addict. No question. Wanted the radar high, working in the zone, absolute mastery of my corner of the sky. Made me a very, very good controller, because I was always working to be better, learn more, work more time on position, become the best every day. That it was beneficial in almost every respect just made it easier for me to get my fix.

Addiction is also chemical. Endorphins again. But also chemical changes in your brain from the substance. Alcoholics experience this; I don't know what that particular buzz is, because I don't metabolize alcohol like they do. Opiates for others. Uppers or downers for others. Cocaine or crack. Nicotine. Food.

The error, I think, is in condemning the behavior, selectively, without regard to the disease, or the underlying personality.

Only the OP knows the emotional ties he feels to gambling vs other important things. Whether he can be a functional addict at some level or must completely avoid it. But because he's in the middle of the emotions, he can't be objective. So that's what he needs outside help with, or gets to a crash point he can hopefully recover from if he doesn't. Help now would be the smart thing.

Quote: beachbumbabs

So, addiction is emotional . Going for that high. I was an ATC addict. No question. Wanted the radar high, working in the zone, absolute mastery of my corner of the sky. Made me a very, very good controller, because I was always working to be better, learn more, work more time on position, become the best every day. That it was beneficial in almost every respect just made it easier for me to get my fix.

I passed the ATC exam back in the 80s, and was seriously considering it as a career, when the controllers went on strike and Reagan fired them all. Suddenly, I would have been competing with a whole bunch of chastened, out-of-work, experienced controllers--most got rehired, but they were forced to work insanely long hours, as the government took advantage of the opportunity to downsize. I read that they lost a LOT of people to burnout as a consequence.

Lots of gambling addicts are self medicating their depression. Just wonder how many workaholic ( no offense beachbumbabs ) on their deathbed, wish they had spent more time at the office?

About the need for abstinence:

This is so effective, for so many people, that I can tell that many who replied here do not have much of a concept how infuriating it is to a great faction of recovering addicts to hear a suggestion otherwise - I'd bet it -abstinence - is a large majority of those successfully recovering from any substance addiction. But as you can see from the google search link below, the claim that it is essential is not accepted by the professional treatment community.

On the other hand, many recovering addicts will tell you the professionals are half the problem, mollycoddling people who need a reality check. There is definitely a claim out there that the professional programs without abstinence included have a bad track record they cover up. And I think it is absolutely absurd for anyone who is not a professional to assert what they think as far as going with some sort of moderation - that it will work for anybody, and especially that just to 'wise up a little' is the ticket.

Personally, I think gambling addiction is different enough I am open to the idea that abstinence possibly is not the only way to get clean.

I did check out at least the article in the bottom link.

Quote: second link

Abstinence Seems to Be Appropriate in the Following Circumstances

*when the gambling has reached the extreme end of the continuum, i.e., when the client has received the diagnosis of “pathological” gambler, using the DSM-IV criteria
*when the client has already made attempts to moderate without success
*when the client names his or her goal as abstinence
*when a client wants to enter an abstinence-based treatment program
*when a client is mandated by an employer or the criminal justice system
*when relationships are at risk, especially for the peace of mind of the partner, or to match the non-gambling partner’s belief system about what needs to happen in order for the relationship to be saved.

Disadvantages of the Abstinence-Only Approach

*Abstinence doesn’t recognize improvements or successful attempts to cut down.
*Abstinence criteria may be excessively stringent and therefore a barrier for some potential clients entering a treatment program where abstinence is a requirement — they might not be ready, it does not match their belief system, or it is too difficult to achieve now.
*An abstinence-only approach contradicts some current research that suggests moderation is appropriate for some clients.

https://www.google.com/#q=addiction+and+abstinence
https://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/ResourcesForProfessionals/Pages/AbstinenceorHarmReduction.aspx

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

I passed the ATC exam back in the 80s, and was seriously considering it as a career, when the controllers went on strike and Reagan fired them all. Suddenly, I would have been competing with a whole bunch of chastened, out-of-work, experienced controllers--most got rehired, but they were forced to work insanely long hours, as the government took advantage of the opportunity to downsize. I read that they lost a LOT of people to burnout as a consequence.

This is mostly incorrect.

Once Reagan fired them, no striker was allowed to be considered for rehire until the mid-1990's, starting about 15 years after the firings. Only about 800 of over 14000 were eventually rehired, and most only long enough to finish earning a minimum pension, then were removed for being too old to do the job.

You would have been competing with no - knowledge people like me, and the few the military could spare. Even as the National Airspace System was crippled for years, and the FAA struggled to hire enough candidates to train, they were selective enough that only 1 in 1000 applicants were accepted to the academy, which was teaching 3 8 hour shifts a day to handle the influx.

The academy pass rate was 50%, so 1 in 2000 got to train with live traffic . 90% of those were able to certify somewhere, though many failed their first program (don't have a number for that, estimate 30%), but showed enough talent to be placed at a lower level and were successful there.

The government did not downsize the workforce. They finally met their hiring goals in 2001, which was the start of the scab generation's eligibility to retire. The government did, however, beginning in 1992, start to outsource the smallest towers to contractors in order to lay off costs of sustaining benefits to federal employees, and force -move contollers into harder facilities. This was a mixed success.

Enough for now. Thanks to the 3 people who read this far. :)

Quote: beachbumbabs

The most prevalent addiction in America, IMO, is the fitness addiction. Millions of them, and they're encouraged by everyone. It's annoying. It's expensive. It takes time and focus every day away from work, family, chores, other pleasures.

Even the fitness addiction seems to involve an expenditure on clothing and most outfitter stores make the majority of their money from 'outdoor fashions' rather than actual outdoor sports equipment. The initial fashion expense is akin to selecting a high 'house edge' game. An obstacle life throws in one's path requiring a less than optimal choice. Then of course we add in the costs of driving to the gym, parking, paying for gym membership, paying for the juice bar lunch, etc.

The tobacco lobby got away with the 'not addictive' argument by showing their employees a film of some heroin addict "kicking the habit" and thus allowing witnesses to testify that tobacco was not addicting, coffee was not addicting, etc. because it was not an extreme addiction. Well, being addicted to a morning Starbucks is not as socially or legally costly to the individual as starting the day with heroin, but it is still an addiction.

<<<<So, addiction is emotional .
Precisely. We just view an individual as in a different light if his addiction is jogging rather than mainlining.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The government did, however, beginning in 1992, start to outsource the smallest towers to contractors in order to lay off costs of sustaining benefits to federal employees, and force -move contollers into harder facilities. This was a mixed success.

Enough for now. Thanks to the 3 people who read this far. :)

What I observed, in the SF Bay Area and SoCal at least, was that the feds seized the opportunity afforded by the strike and firings to convert several general aviation fields to uncontrolled status. Increased traffic at those airports may have made them rethink this approach, and outsource the controller work when they converted them back. In my neck of the woods, the two major airports were complaining about small planes heading for uncontrolled fields blundering into their ATC areas. To be fair, it was tricky. Their controlled areas were upside-down wedding cakes and you had to know where each slice began and ended.

And I think FOUR people read your post :)

Had a friend with a successful business. Most of his employees are divorced women, many over 40. Seems like they marry the job. Always worrying the boss is not getting full value from other employees.

Quote: odiousgambit

About the need for abstinence:

This is so effective, for so many people, that I can tell that many who replied here do not have much of a concept how infuriating it is to a great faction of recovering addicts to hear a suggestion otherwise - I'd bet it -abstinence - is a large majority of those successfully recovering from any substance addiction. But as you can see from the google search link below, the claim that it is essential is not accepted by the professional treatment community.

On the other hand, many recovering addicts will tell you the professionals are half the problem, mollycoddling people who need a reality check. There is definitely a claim out there that the professional programs without abstinence included have a bad track record they cover up. And I think it is absolutely absurd for anyone who is not a professional to assert what they think as far as going with some sort of moderation - that it will work for anybody, and especially that just to 'wise up a little' is the ticket.

Spot on.

Quote: odiousgambit

But as you can see from the google search link below, the claim that it is essential is not accepted by the professional treatment community.

Then why not accept that premise? The popular belief is that the only way to treat addiction is with total abstinence. But when popular belief says one thing and professionals in the field say another, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Absolutist views of complex situations tend to be wrong. I think it would be absurd, for example, to say that a gambling addict who was losing thousands a week and was putting himself at risk of financial ruin but now has controlled his habit and only loses a couple of hundred a week (as in, knows when to stop after a loss of a certain amount) hasn't realized a real, significant improvement. Compare it to a pack-a-day smoker who now smokes a third of a pack a day. Cured? No. Better? Yes. But an absolutist viewpoint would say that there's no real difference, he's still an addict, and the only cure is to seal him in a vault.

I think the absolutist view is sensible for those who cannot control the addiction whenever participating in the activity to any degree at all, no matter how modest. The old "I'll just have ONE drink" or "I'll just make ONE bet" is nonsense, and could trigger a full-scale re-entrance in addiction all over again. A definition of addiction is that you cannot control it when partaking in it.

If a certain activity just isn't working in one's life, complete riddance is often the best solution. This isn't a sealing in a vault as much as removing some particular thing that just wasn't working in one's life.

The antidrug industry is so huge that current policy is to allow back sliding and even formally embrace it; the group homes and counselors make more money that way than booting out those who test positive.

As for gambling its similar to drug use. How much time and money is it taking from what would otherwise by your 'real life'.

I once had to tell a guy that he should be able to spend his last cent and not have his date even suspect it. Its the same way with gambling: if it makes you some sort of spoil sport, get some help somehow.

Yep. Plus there's no upside to just having gambling under control.

Drinking recreationally, you can have some tasty drinks with dinner. Go out with friends to places like bars. Maybe meet people.

Casual drug use will give you some pretty cool experiences.

Not that addicts shouldn't abstain from those things (with drugs, they've already had the experience) but there are reasons to do them.

I guess, with gambling, you might occasionally, like a few times in your life, go on a trip with some friends and all have a good time that includes some blackjack.

But there really is nothing good at all about going off once a week and "only" losing 10% of your income, and "only" losing one evening a week of your short time, sitting alone in front of a machine or at a craps table and setting your money on fire.

Easy to imagine someone at the end of their life wishing they'd cut lose more in their youth, been more adventurous, tried some drugs, etc. I really can't imagine someone saying, "I wish I'd lost one more paycheck. I wish I'd spent another 500 hours pushing buttons."

Not that it's the end of the world if you do those things, but it's hardly something to aspire too. If you're going to attack the problem, why not have the goal of rooting it out completely?

Addiction is essentially an inability to control yourself when it comes to gambling/drinking/drugs/etc.

I think the notion that controlling an addiction is ridiculous, in most cases.


How many people smoke too much or drink too much and say something like, "I've tried cutting back, but I can't."


Problem with limiting yourself when it comes to an addiction is the want or need to drink more is still gonna be there. Having one or two drinks isn't enjoyable, having 5 or 6+ drinks is enjoyable. So really, there is no reason to have just 1 or 2 drinks, because it isn't enjoyable for the alcoholic and it just leads to wanting to drink more.


I'm not saying some people can't change their ways and go from being an alcoholic to drinking occasionally/recreationally, or go from being a complete degenerate gambler to one who only plays every now and then. But for the most part, that's not gonna happen with a majority of people. It's an addiction for a reason, and I don't think there exists an addict anywhere in this world that enjoys being an addict and hasn't at least attempted to or wanted to quit the habit. If he could gamble or drink less but still gamble/drink recreationally, why hasn't he made the transition?


After time, the urge to gamble/drink/etc. begins to fade away. After the urge is nearly completely gone, I could see at that point transitioning back into a recreational drinker/gambler/etc. and be perfectly fine with 1 or 2 drinks without the urge to drink more, or be able to go to the casino with $100 and play for an hour or whatever then call it quits, without the urge to win back losses or continue the winning spree. Although, once the urge is essentially gone and possibly transitioning back into drinking/gambling...you'd be getting into some something potentially dangerous.....could cause a complete relapse and go straight back to where you were a few years ago.

I never understoof why someone would have 1 or 2 drinks. Alcohol mostly doesnt taste that great. I am either going to have 6-12 beers or no beers.

Quote: GWAE

I never understoof why someone would have 1 or 2 drinks. Alcohol mostly doesnt taste that great. I am either going to have 6-12 beers or no beers.

That's good, let it all out. We're here for you. The first step is admitting you have a problem.