Harrah's Diamond in a Day Attempt
Quote: ClownkeeperI'm going to Vegas next week and after reading some of the forums posts, I'm thinking about trying to acheive the DIAD at the Harrah's property (if its still offered. Some of the posts I read were kinda old). My question, if anyone knows, is how much bankroll do I need to accomplish this? My usual game is craps, but the posts say that the best way to acheive this is playing video poker. My plan is to take a day and only play VP, but at what machine can this be done. .25 at max bet for $1.25, $1.00 at max bet for $5.00 or $5.00 for max bet of $25? The max bet of $25 would be out of budget. Can I do this with a bankroll of $1,000.00? The post I read said I'd have to acheive 3,000 tier points in one day to do this. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated as I said my favorite game to play is craps and I'd hate to wast my time/cash on video poker if I cant make this happen. I would've posted this in the Harrah's section of the forum, but it looks like that post does'nt get much views
I read that DIAD is 3000 points in one day. Harrahs points are $10 in handle, so you're looking at $30k in handle. If you won't play $5 VP, you're going to have to spend all day trying to get there. $1 VP ($5 per play) at 600 hands/hour is $3k/hour, so you'll have to play for 10 hours. Can you play 10 hours at 600 hands/hour on $1k bankroll? It's much easier to rack up that action at the $5 level, but you said that's out of your budget.
If DIAD isn't offered, regular Diamond status is 10,000 points, or $100k in handle. You'll need to play $5 machines for that.
If you only have $1,000 and you have the time, it would be better to play 10 hours at the $5 level (again, on a full pay machine, single coin).
The only bad news is that if you get a RF, you will only get a 250 coin payout instead of an 800 coin payout.
But, paradoxically, the good news is that if you get a RF - you got an RF!
Another advantage of NOT playing $25/hand is that if you get a straight flush, you won't have to report it. At $25/hand, a straight flush pays $1,250 which is right at the threshold for tax reporting.
When I need tier points, this is how I play. I also only play JorB because the simplified strategy is easier to play mistake free, and the variance is lower. But, if you are an expert in another game, go for it. The important thing is that you play a full pay machine, and you play fast and mistake free.
It is possible to find $1 9/5 JorB machines that you could play with full coin in for a slightly better expectation (98.45% vs. 98.37%.) But, is the small increase in overall expectation (.08%) worth the increased variance (19.5 vs. 4.93) over only 5 or 10 hours of play? To me, no. I'd rather give up the .08% to have the extra return of one coin for a flush than give up the one coin per flush for the chance of a bonus pay on the RF.
In a perfect world, I would play a full coin in, full pay machine which would be $25/hand. But, I don't do this for two reasons:
1) Like you, I don't have the BR [or, more accurately, I'm not willing to commit a large portion of my BR to negative expectation play], and
2) I don't have to report straight flush wins to the IRS
Quote: MathExtremistI read that DIAD is 3000 points in one day. Harrahs points are $10 in handle, so you're looking at $30k in handle. If you won't play $5 VP, you're going to have to spend all day trying to get there. $1 VP ($5 per play) at 600 hands/hour is $3k/hour, so you'll have to play for 10 hours. Can you play 10 hours at 600 hands/hour on $1k bankroll? It's much easier to rack up that action at the $5 level, but you said that's out of your budget.
If DIAD isn't offered, regular Diamond status is 10,000 points, or $100k in handle. You'll need to play $5 machines for that.
What is the definition of "handle"?
I was just at Rio a month ago. I'd lost my platinum status, been downgraded to gold. Went to the rewards booth to exchange my players card. They suggested I could regain my platinum status with sufficient play during the day. Just 2000 points for platinum! They looked at my account and determined that I'd already achieved 200 points toward this goal.
Well I'd been playing Pai Gow poker & tiles for an average of $100/hand for about 3 hours. So I estimate I'd already put about $10,000 across the tables, and for this I got a mere 200 points. I'd need to play another 3 hours at $1000/hand to reach the platinum status. Or play for 24 hours straight at $100/hand. This is completely unrealistic. Harrah's reward system sucks. I'm going over to MGM.
Quote: PapaChubbyWhat is the definition of "handle"?
I was just at Rio a month ago. I'd lost my platinum status, been downgraded to gold. Went to the rewards booth to exchange my players card. They suggested I could regain my platinum status with sufficient play during the day. Just 2000 points for platinum! They looked at my account and determined that I'd already achieved 200 points toward this goal.
Well I'd been playing Pai Gow poker & tiles for an average of $100/hand for about 3 hours. So I estimate I'd already put about $10,000 across the tables, and for this I got a mere 200 points. I'd need to play another 3 hours at $1000/hand to reach the platinum status. Or play for 24 hours straight at $100/hand. This is completely unrealistic. Harrah's reward system sucks. I'm going over to MGM.
Sadly, you are at the mercy of how many hands per hour the Harrah's computer assigns to Pai Gow, and what the pit assigned you as your average bet. If the pit gave you $100/hand, and they assumed 34 hands per hour, then you would have earned 1,000 points. What probably happened is that the pit under rated you, and they probably only assume somewhere between 20 and 25 hands per hour. I'm not familiar with Pai Gow to know what a "realistic" average hands per hour would be. But, you can be sure that Harrah's errs on the low side. I do know that for Roulette, the assumed average has dropped from 40 spins per hour in 2008, to 35 spins per hour in 2009, and is now rated at only 30 spins per hour. So, if you are in a fast roulette game (60 spins per hour) your are only going to recieve 1/2 the number of points you are entitled to simply because the computer formula is set to only credit 30 spins per hour. I agree - it sucks.
Go to the host office and ask them what your average bet was rated at for the session, and your exact start and end times. If you did not confirm these with the pit before you left, I believe you may be in for quite a shock.
With VP, there is no question as to how much coin in you have given them.
BTW, what you will find at MGM is that they give you a much better shake at the table games (except BJ), but their VP comps system sucks.
Total wager, measured easily on EGMs via the coin-in meter. Also known as coin-in in the slot world. Tracking tables has always been (and still is) more art than science. Table tracking systems are out there, but not very popular with operators so far.Quote: PapaChubbyWhat is the definition of "handle"?
Quote: PapaChubby
I was just at Rio a month ago. I'd lost my platinum status, been downgraded to gold. Went to the rewards booth to exchange my players card. They suggested I could regain my platinum status with sufficient play during the day. Just 2000 points for platinum! They looked at my account and determined that I'd already achieved 200 points toward this goal.
Well I'd been playing Pai Gow poker & tiles for an average of $100/hand for about 3 hours. So I estimate I'd already put about $10,000 across the tables, and for this I got a mere 200 points. I'd need to play another 3 hours at $1000/hand to reach the platinum status. Or play for 24 hours straight at $100/hand. This is completely unrealistic. Harrah's reward system sucks. I'm going over to MGM.
I concur that Harrah's table game players get no respect. Per my Harrah's review, I bet $23,730 in pai gow and earned 756 Base Credits. Tier Credits are earned at the same rate. That converts to 1 Tier Credit for every $31.89 bet. To get Plantinum in a day would require $62,778 in turnover, and for Diamond $94,167. If I bet all 24 hours of the day I'd still need an average bet of $3,923!
I got 2,900 points in a day, two different times two years ago. Paris once and Rio once. Both times it was playing craps, while my wife was racking up some points for me on penny slots ($200 or so buy-in). My craps play was PL/w odds and 85 inside, pressed to $170 inside on first hit, pressed to 255 inside after second hit. I rarely ventured much past 90 or 100 on each number. I had some decent rolls so I was able to play for 4 to 6 hours at a time, mostly on their money the whole time. They were rating me between 180 and 240, depending on who knows what.
Repeat of a story, but at Rio I was desperately trying to get to 3,500 points. It was our last day there, and I lost the 1g I was up, and 1g of my money in a lousy morning session (teach me to skip breakfast). I went to see the host, who agreed to comp me everything charged to the room, which included a $400 meal I had paid for our group Sat. night when I had been up 3g. That was a nice extra, as I only had about 1/2 of the amount in comp credits. I completed the checkout process and proceeded back to craps to kill the last hour before the trip to the airport. Guy 3 to my left goes on a 45 minute roll. He rolled point 8, which he made 3 rolls later. He then rolled a couple of 7/11s, and then point 10. He never made the 10! 45 minute roll and only made 1 point. I made 3600 on that roll, so plus 2600 for trip.
I have never been able to get anyone in Harrah's to tell me when the Day starts and ends as far as comps is concerned. Is it midnight to midnight, 6AM to 6 AM , 3AM to 3AM, or ??? All of these are answers I have been given, but no one seems to know for certain, and based on the different answers, it is certain no one I've talked to seems to know. Knowing when the day starts would help you know how you are doing in your DIAD quest.
Last December during the Las Vegas marathon weekend, me and a couple of friends that always goes with me on these trips each lost $4K during a 4 hour massacre playing craps and baccarat. We couldn't even combine for a steak dinner with the "points" we "earned". Pathetic.
Quote: AussieWhat does diamond status get you?
There are a number of perks, but the best, in my opinion, are shorter lines, and access to the Diamond Lounge.
She's not a bad player, she never loses more than a couple hundred. I pulled her history for her one year, from Harrah's website, she was down less than $500 for the year. Considering that she and my dad got free rooms probably a dozen times, and Diamond Lounge, and her drinks, and no wait lines, I'd call that +EV.
Quote: Wizardshorter lines
That in itself is a heck of a commentary. It's like saying, "We won't screw around with you as badly as we do with the peons." Shouldn't any casino's basic motivation be to keep players off the lines and on the floor?
I was swiping my card at the Bally's AC kiosk for some type of promotion. The guy at the next kiosk swiped his card to see if he qualified for the promotion. The answer was no. He said out loud "I never get anything anymore." I looked at him and he started to tell me his story.
At one time he was 7Star. I could see that he had a 7Star card in the palm of his hand. He also had a Diamond card. There is a huge gap between Diamond (11,000) and 7Star (100,000). He said that last year because of illness, he wasn't able to get to the casino as much as he did the previous year. He had accumulated 96,000 points. He was short 4,000 points and when he pleaded his case (I don't know who he went to) he said that they wouldn't give him the points to maintain his 7Star status.
He gave them more than $1 million in action over the past 2 years and they wouldn't give him the points!!!
Quote: AussieWhat does diamond status get you?
As Diamond player myself, I have to say the perks are much better if you are looking to play at multiple locations. Harrah's strength is in its diversity of locations (i.e. Midwest, Atlantic City, Las Vegas, etc.) Anywhere you go, you'll never be far from a Harrah's property of some sort. Since Diamond players do receive better treatment than Gold or even Platinum players (that level is such a joke), you can get free rooms (in most cases). I'll be the first to admit that the RC system is not fair to table game players at most properties, but there are a few that comp fairly (Harrah's N. Kansas City is pretty fair, Horseshoe S.I. offers comp dollars that don't go against your account).
By the way, if you ever get to NKC, they offer the Game King BJ machines that pay at the Keno rate ($5/1point). They also offer a lot of great multipliers, as high as 100X. That would be a FAST way to get to Diamond, and you'd be earning a better rate for comps.
This year, being in Ohio, I earned my status for next year playing 9/6 JoB at Horseshoe S.I. on 7x Multiplier.
Quote: TiltpoulSince Diamond players do receive better treatment than Gold or even Platinum players (that level is such a joke), you can get free rooms (in most cases).
Evidence is abundant here and elsewhere that even lowly Gold Card holders get plentiful free rooms.
Quote:By the way, if you ever get to NKC, they offer the Game King BJ machines that pay at the Keno rate ($5/1point). They also offer a lot of great multipliers, as high as 100X. That would be a FAST way to get to Diamond
Multipliers have not in the past gone for Tier Credits. Is that something new?
Quote: TiltpoulBy the way, if you ever get to NKC, they offer the Game King BJ machines that pay at the Keno rate ($5/1point).
This year, being in Ohio, I earned my status for next year playing 9/6 JoB at Horseshoe S.I. on 7x Multiplier.
They do? Which machine? All I remember the Game King keno machines having was, well, keno.
Ameristar North Kansas City has some machines that do both keno and blackjack, don't remember what the rate for them is though.
P.S. - I've been lurking around for a little while already, great website and great forum!
Quote: ElectricDreamsThey do? Which machine? All I remember the Game King keno machines having was, well, keno.
They are both upstairs and downstairs. Upstairs, they are located in the back corner with the Video Poker machines, against the back wall. They actually have JoB on that machine too, but it's a LOUSY 6/5, so not really worth playing. Downstairs, it's back in the bar area, over by the drink station. I was there in May and the machines are still offered at that level.
Quote: SanchoPanzaEvidence is abundant here and elsewhere that even lowly Gold Card holders get plentiful free rooms.
That may be true for Gold Card members who play at one particular property, or who play in Las Vegas one time. However, my experience has been that Gold card members usually can't log into a new property and get free rooms. Diamond members though usually have no problem, even without any history at that particular property. Maybe that's changing because of the economy...
Quote: SanchoPanzaMultipliers have not in the past gone for Tier Credits. Is that something new?
The Multiplier does NOT apply to tier credits. However, at an accelerated rate, the Bonus RCs accrued during the promotion can be used for comps or cash back even. Furthermore, you get bonus RCs for your play on top of the promotion, so it would not be unusual that if you earned 1000 tier credits during a 8x multiplier, that all-in-all you could score somewhere around 10,000 RCS total, cash value $50, comp value $100. If you got lucky during the super multiplier promotions they offer, say 100x, that could easily become $1000 cash back.
I also understand that the Game King BJ machines have a higher HA, but they seem to have low variance, and it's better than the Keno game and probably even 6/5 JoB.
Quote: TiltpoulThe Multiplier does NOT apply to tier credits
Rendering the original statement of "They also offer a lot of great multipliers, as high as 100X. That would be a FAST way to get to Diamond" misleading and inaccurate.
Quote: SanchoPanzaRendering the original statement of "They also offer a lot of great multipliers, as high as 100X. That would be a FAST way to get to Diamond" misleading and inaccurate.
Okay, I'll clarify what I meant by the original post. At the $5=1 point, THAT'S the fast way to get to Diamond. You can play at a higher level with lower variance, and while playing at a HA, the higher RC multiplier can get you cash back that makes it worth playing at that level. I understand where the original post can be a misleading, but that was not the intention.
Quote: FatGeezusThe fastest way to achieve Diamond is to have more than person play on the same card. Many players do this. It is not uncommon to have a husband and wife playing on the same card. How do I know this? From talking to others while waiting in line to enter the Diamond Lounge.
Bingo! I do this all the time with my parents. They want to go play slots at Caesars? Great! Take my card! That's how I made diamond last year. It was mostly because of friends and family playing on my account (otherwise, my little bit of blackjack play wouldn't even get me to platinum).
You can get as many duplicate cards as you want.
In my opinion, though, diamond is overrated. If you ever play at a Harrah's outside of Vegas, especially in cities where they are the only game in town, you'll notice almost everyone has a diamond card.
Quote: cardsharkBingo! I do this all the time with my parents. They want to go play slots at Caesars? Great! Take my card! That's how I made diamond last year. It was mostly because of friends and family playing on my account (otherwise, my little bit of blackjack play wouldn't even get me to platinum).
You can get as many duplicate cards as you want.
In my opinion, though, diamond is overrated. If you ever play at a Harrah's outside of Vegas, especially in cities where they are the only game in town, you'll notice almost everyone has a diamond card.
It is overrated only if you have never stood in a buffet line for an hour waiting to get in, while the Diamond and 7 Stars walk right in! It makes a HUGE difference in food wait times.
Other differences I have noted:
** We went to Vegas for 6 days last year. I was comp'd every day at Caesars, while my Platinum friends could only get 3 days comp'd.
** I have never had to wait to check in, using the Diamond Checkin area. Nice when the lines are long.
** As noted, the Diamond Lounge is a nice perk. The hor d'oeuvres at night are enough to let you skip dinner, if you want more table money.
** RIO diamond Lounge had free internet, so you could do Flight check-in for free. It is pretty nice to be able to sit, relax, and get as many drinks as you would like as well.
In 2006 it was 3:00 AM at the Kansas properties (well, KC). Don't know now.Quote: RaleighCrapsI have never been able to get anyone in Harrah's to tell me when the Day starts and ends as far as comps is concerned.
--Dorothy
Edit: HSI -- $.50/$1.00 Super Aces at 99.94%
Hammond - $1.00 15/11 DW at 99.96% (50-play)
Tunica Roadhouse -- same DW as above at $.25/$.50/$1
Quote: teddysThere absolutely are very good opportunities at the Harrah's regional properties, and they often have better returns that 9/6 JOB. Horseshoe Hammond, and Horseshoe Southern Indiana, for example. I think Jean Scott is from Indiana, so they return there a lot.
I just got a mailer from HSI: $125 cash from May 1-18, $125 cash from May 19-31. $30 food voucher. I'm using reward miles, a free car rental voucher, and HSI's May room offer and going to the casino for about 8 hours on the night of the 18th. I'm not sure, but I think that using work-generated travel perks to harvest a casino offer 900 miles from home might be the definition of an advantage play? (or, alternatively, "nuts")
On the topic of free rooms: I don't play at a super high level, but I play at a lot of different locations. I can't think of the last time that I paid for a room at a Harrah's property, including ones I've never been to before. I usually avoid staying through saturdays, though I am staying free at Harrah's Kansas City on the 14th.
Quote: gofaster87Maybe a 9/6/90 JOB machine which is almost break even. Please tell me they have these in a high stakes machine.
How high is high? HSI has $5 9/6 JoB, does that qualify?
Not nuts, you gotta maximize. I harvested a $120 cash/$35 freeplay offer there recently by staying over on the bubble day. I like how HSI gives cash instead of freeplay. So nice to get greenbacks instead of "churning" the FP. Saturday night stays are always tough to get. They are like gold--I rarely if ever get them. They really help, though, when you are trying to string a lot of offers together for a long trip.Quote: rdw4potusI just got a mailer from HSI: $125 cash from May 1-18, $125 cash from May 19-31. $30 food voucher. I'm using reward miles, a free car rental voucher, and HSI's May room offer and going to the casino for about 8 hours on the night of the 18th. I'm not sure, but I think that using work-generated travel perks to harvest a casino offer 900 miles from home might be the definition of an advantage play? (or, alternatively, "nuts")
On the topic of free rooms: I don't play at a super high level, but I play at a lot of different locations. I can't think of the last time that I paid for a room at a Harrah's property, including ones I've never been to before. I usually avoid staying through saturdays, though I am staying free at Harrah's Kansas City on the 14th.
