An easy way to get comps, but not necessarily make any money...

I know playing for comps is a suckers way to play, but I had an idea, lets say my spouse and I go play baccarat and I plan on betting banker every time and he bets on player every time, basically we will stay even (minus the 5% for banker winnings) but betting $25 a hand we will be rated and should eventually get us something, maybe a free meal or better room offers for later, what do people think of this idea? I am not looking to hear playing for comps is like spending a dollar to save a quarter, but I am more interested in peoples thoughts about a way to gain "points" within the casino while staying even.

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

I know playing for comps is a suckers way to play, but I had an idea, lets say my spouse and I go play baccarat and I plan on betting banker every time and he bets on player every time, basically we will stay even (minus the 5% for banker winnings) but betting $25 a hand we will be rated and should eventually get us something, maybe a free meal or better room offers for later, what do people think of this idea? I am not looking to hear playing for comps is like spending a dollar to save a quarter, but I am more interested in peoples thoughts about a way to gain "points" within the casino while staying even.

Your comps will *probably* not earn you more than the house edge, unless there is some huge special point bonus thing going on. You will most likely lose more than it would cost to just pay for the free meal.

I have seen very generous comping on rare occasions where you could nudge into a situation where you can make more than you lose. It would still be better to just bet the banker though. Otherwise you are just bleeding 5% every time the banker wins, and you have no chance at winning. With a $25 bet on each, you are going to lose $1.25 every time the banker wins. You are not going to get comped ~$.60 per hand, which is what you are going to lose.

I think that if all you want is comps and you're aiming to minimize the variance required to earn them, then your method is probably the best available. That said, this is a sure way to lose gradually over time and you won't earn comps at anywhere near the rate that you lose money playing. You'd be much better off just betting on the banker and hoping for good luck.

There are occasional instances when it does work, like the old free buffet trick at the Wynn - which was basically to bet black and red and hope that zero didn't show up. But generally, the house edge is too great. The lower risk alternative would be to use the Wizard's 9/6 Jacks or Better Video Poker Strategy - even the "basic" one has half the house advantage of playing banker in baccarat. Also, table games are generally rated at higher increments than video poker, i.e. more dollars in are required per point.

If you play for about 4 hours, you're going to see about 300 hands. You'll be paying $1.25 commission on about 140 of those hands. So you're going to lose around $175 in 4 hours. Let's say you get 2 buffet comps - that'll be about $50. Plus free drinks for those 4 hours, I suppose that could be worth sbout $25. That leaves you short $100. You'll probably get a free room offer later. But, if you just gamble what you're going to gamble, you'll get a discounted room offer.

You might get out a little ahead by doing it, but I think it kills the enjoyment. I don't think it's a terrible idea, but it just seems like too much work, no fun, and a waste of vacation time...

Just my thoughts...

Well, I figured Banker would turn up about 30 times per hour, resulting in a loss of $37.50 per hour * 4 hours =$150 loss for a gaming session, that $30 dinner would end up costing $150 but it was just a general thought I had of a way to gain lots of "points" with minimal risk.

Quote: FinsRule

If you play for about 4 hours, you're going to see about 300 hands. You'll be paying $1.25 commission on about 140 of those hands. So you're going to lose around $175 in 4 hours. Let's say you get 2 buffet comps - that'll be about $50. Plus free drinks for those 4 hours, I suppose that could be worth sbout $25. That leaves you short $100. You'll probably get a free room offer later. But, if you just gamble what you're going to gamble, you'll get a discounted room offer.

You might get out a little ahead by doing it, but I think it kills the enjoyment. I don't think it's a terrible idea, but it just seems like too much work, no fun, and a waste of vacation time...

Just my thoughts...

I don't see how I could be ahead by doing this since im going to lose $175 in four hours! Generally my spouse and I play pai gow poker together because that game tends to make your money last longer, but you don't win that much either!

You're ahead if you count that you'll get a free room for your next trip as profit.

You can also increase your "time" without cost if you do a couple of things. If you are getting along well with the crew (pit boss and/or table supervisor, dealer, etc.) and tipping a bit, they will usually rate you well--maybe even higher than your actual play. I tipped a $5 bet every half hour or so last time I played a $25 game and also had conversations with the whole crew throughout the session. My rating was about $10 higher a hand than it should have been.

There are three other things I did:

1. Skipped a few hands when the cards were not coming my way. When I played alone, I would just say "free hand"...a hand would be played with no bet on the table. I was betting Banker only and would use that when "Player" was on a streak. Probably should have just bet Player, but it was my first mini-bac playing experience... This could impact your rating IF the pit crew is picky...

2. Take bathroom breaks mid-shoe. In my case, play just stopped while I was gone. If others are playing, play will continue. Either way, you will likely get credit for that time if you do it infrequently and are not gone too long. They simply covered my chips each time I left.

3. Catch as many shuffles as you can. While I am sure this is figured into their hands-per-hour math, it is in your best interest to be playing when they shuffle or change cards. If you catch an "extra" shuffle, it is like having 15 minutes of play added for nothing...

You are expecting to lose $175 over four hours. I played "Banker" for eight hours @ $25 a hand and was never "down" $175. You might come out better just "gambling"... My comps were not huge for the trip but I could ask for a buffet any time the pit folks I met were there. They even told me when to go to maximize the value of the comp. Free room offers w/ free play followed. The room was already comped. All on a small buy-in...$200...

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

I know playing for comps is a suckers way to play, but I had an idea, lets say my spouse and I go play baccarat and I plan on betting banker every time and he bets on player every time, basically we will stay even (minus the 5% for banker winnings) but betting $25 a hand we will be rated and should eventually get us something, maybe a free meal or better room offers for later, what do people think of this idea? I am not looking to hear playing for comps is like spending a dollar to save a quarter, but I am more interested in peoples thoughts about a way to gain "points" within the casino while staying even.

I tried this at Rivers in Pittsburgh. I used my "free play" to run up some points, I think I have about $500 in action. I never bothered to see if I earned anything yet, but my plan was to keep using the "free play" to run my play up to a free buffet since they didn't allow the play on VP and their VP was 7/5 anyways. The free play still sits on my account.

If you are going to do this I would instead suggest playing Pass/Don't Pass at craps with seperate accounts. The only time you would lose then is half your combined bet on a bar-12 on the come-out. Wiz states somewhere on WOO that doing this is a bad way to bet for winning money since you lose the 7-11 advantage. But if you are going for comps your money is at less risk since by any measure there will be far fewer come-outs per hour than roulette spins.

Yes, Craps would be the better way to go.

If you put $25 on Pass & $25 on Don't Pass, you only lose $25 when a 12 is rolled on the comeout. At a full table, there will be around 30 comeouts per hour. With a 1 in 36 chance of rolling a 12, you should expect 1 comeout 12 per hour. In 4 hours, you're losing $100 opposed to the $175 in Baccarat. Of course, the variation is higher. You could lose $200, but it's possible you could break even!

You should go to a full $25 table, so that there wouldn't be any suspicion.

It'll still be just as boring. But you do get to shoot. And who knows, if you hit a bunch of points, you just might get a tip.

There is a rule of thumb that casinos will comp back about 40% of your theoretical loss. So I doubt you will come out ahead. Maybe, if you slow play, by skipping lots of hands. It will look fishy if both of you keep skipping the same ones.

It would make much more sense to play blackjack and use a simple card counting scheme as outlines in the Wizard of Odds (like counting only Aces and fives). You will never beat the casino with such a simple scheme, but you may stay close to zero and come out ahead on the comps.

Quote: Wizard of Odds

Ace/Five Count Strategy link
Basic strategy blackjack players sometimes ask me for a simple way to overcome the small house edge in blackjack, with little worry over being recognized as a card counter. This is often done with the motive of milking the casinos for comps and offers. What follows is, in my opinion, the easiest card counting strategy to achieve the above goal and still put the odds in the player's favor.

If you and your wife are hedging your bets by playing opposite side what you are really doing is minimizing your variance and not really minimizing your expected value. You should place 6 and place 8 at well as playing the pass and don't pass line and mix in some come bets. You can also buy the 4 and the 10 for the maximum permitted. It won't be so obvious that you are simply trying to cancel out each other's bets. The pit boss will just accept you as people playing for a low house advantage bets.

They are only human. If you are overtly trying to cancel out each other's bets they are going to be as skimpy as possible with the comps.

Well it is obvious the expected loss of 175 is not worth the comp value, it was just an idea. Speaking of video roulette can one get points by doing red and black and hoping for no 0? This could be a way to do Harrah's diamond in a day. I shall emphasize , I would never play for comps but just making general discussion. On the topic of card counting I am sufficent at high/low but dont have the guts to bet big when the count is good. I usually play $5-$10 bj with a bet of no more than $30. It is not fun when you are nervous when the cards come out! In general with the comps you have to ask usually , they will not offer right?

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

Well it is obvious the expected loss of 175 is not worth the comp value, it was just an idea. Speaking of video roulette can one get points by doing red and black and hoping for no 0? This could be a way to do Harrah's diamond in a day. I shall emphasize , I would never play for comps but just making general discussion. On the topic of card counting I am sufficent at high/low but dont have the guts to bet big when the count is good. I usually play $5-$10 bj with a bet of no more than $30. It is not fun when you are nervous when the cards come out! In general with the comps you have to ask usually , they will not offer right?

Good question, because a lot of Harrah's properties have Single Zero Bally machines. However there is an added message, put on with a low-rent label maker, that says that you must wager $20 to earn 1 point. One point at Harrah's is equal to 1c in comps. Their slots are $5 per point, and the video poker is $10 per point. So you will have to bet much more to earn points. Let's say you bet $10 red $10 black. You'll earn about 35 cents in comps for every time you lose 20 bucks when the Zero comes up. Even on a 10x rewards points day, it's only $3.50. I have a feeling that when they installed the machines, they were either set for 1 point for 5 bucks or 10 bucks, and people were doing well with comps on those big rewards points days (I've had as many as 25x rewards points, so on that kind of day, if you are getting a point for every $5, you are now gaining $35 in comps for every 20 you lose on average) The 25x rewards was never an offer that was mailed to me, but I received it once on a "Mystery Rewards multiplier" Day. So combine the net comp win with the fact that usually 1x a year they let you trade your credits for cash 1 for 1, and you can do damage. But they put an end to that by making you bet 20 bucks for 1 cent. It does show that they do sometimes mess up, and create opportunities for a sizable advantage....that's why this site is great. We have to share them with each other so we can take advantage, because they'll take it away after a bit anyway, and there are probably more people accidentally taking advantage so it's not like they aren't going to notice....

In general I find comps to be a mystery. I usually play once every 2-3 months and have never had a "comp" that was handed to me directly while playing by a floor person. I have noticed that after my big loss in Vegas in February my Harrah's offers got a lot better! I was betting no more than $10-$15 a hand, but I had a really bad streak of luck and lost about $1,000 at Harrah's properties. My play was the same as it had been before other trips to Vegas and Reno, I just didn't stay about even like I usually do. I don't like to play the machines so the multiplier rewards won't do me much good, especially since they say "EXCLUDES VIDEO POKER". Has anyone read any of the Jean Scott (I think thats her name) Frugal Gambler Books, or Comp City? I don't like to pester people to give me stuff [or take food from the buffet in a ziploc bag like I have heard she suggests] but perhaps there is a way to have some charges taken care of?

Nick, only thing I can recommend is to ask. I wouldn't ask upon immediately sitting down at a table, but maybe after you've played for an hour or so, just call the pit boss over and ask if a comp is available. Lots of things will, of course, depend on how much money you gamble, and how long you play. The pit boss will look in a computer or on their paperwork to see what they can make available to you.

I gamble too little to ask for anything, but I've seen plenty of other people do it. One guy, who is a big gambler, told me that he waits until he's up a bit of money. Then he asks the pit boss where a good place to eat is. Of course, the pit boss will recommend something in the casino. (That must be company policy.) He then asks how much it is. Pit boss says something. Guy will say, well, I'll have to see if my wife wants to spend that much, or go somewhere else. Pit boss then usually comes back with, how about a couple of free meals on the house. Guys takes the comps, and goes eat. Of course, he might come back later and lose that money. Anyway, according to him, it works like a charm.

But I've also seen people playing and losing and ask for comps and usually get something. But again, their level of betting is higher than mine, so I've never tried it myself.

Bottom line, I don't think it can hurt to ask. Worst case scenario is that they're going to tell you that you don't qualify for any comps. Then you might just ask how much more gambling you need to do to get a free meal, and I bet they will tell you.

One game I thought about is EZ baccarat. With this game there is no comission. This is perhaps a way to have my spouse bet player while I play banker. We can play get rated for black chip play without losing any money, as long as we pretend we don't know eachother and dont exchange money infront of the dealer.

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

We can play get rated for black chip play without losing any money, as long as we pretend we don't know eachother and dont exchange money infront of the dealer.

The easiest way to avoid the appearance of collusion is to play at separate tables. Naturally the results won't be the same, but if you play long enough they should be close.

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

One game I thought about is EZ baccarat. With this game there is no comission. This is perhaps a way to have my spouse bet player while I play banker. We can play get rated for black chip play without losing any money, as long as we pretend we don't know eachother and dont exchange money infront of the dealer.

Not true. Occasionally the banker hand will push and the player hand will lose, as per the rules of EZ baccarat. So you'll lose overall.