Tipping Inside Casinos (always an interesting subject).
July 6th, 2010 at 12:27:23 PM
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There's an old saying that if you don't speak up, you won't be heard. As a firm believer in the veracity of that saying, I feel obligated to speak up on the subject of Jerry Logan's lubricious metanarratives. Let me make clear what is foremost on my mind and what the focus of this letter will be: Logan's propaganda factories continuously spew forth messages like, "Logan's outbursts are Holy Writ" and, "The sun rises just for Logan". What they don't tell you, though, is that Logan makes a lot of exaggerated claims. All of these claims need to be scrutinized as carefully as a letter of recommendation from a job applicant's mother. Consider, for example, Logan's claim that his blessing is the equivalent of a papal imprimatur. The fact of the matter is that by refusing to act, by refusing to lead him out of a dream world and back to hard reality, we are giving him the power to transform our little community into a global crucible of terror and gore.
Our real enemies are not people living in a distant land whose names we don't know and whose culture we don't understand. Our real enemies are Jerry Logan and all others who make communism socially acceptable. Though his mind games be madness, yet there is method to them. Step by step, they make it easier for Logan to mute the voice of anyone who dares to speak out against him. More prosaically, this is not the place to develop that subject. It demands many pages of analysis, which I can't spare in this letter. Instead, I'll just state the key point, which is that when I was a child my clergyman told me, "I consider Logan's methods of interpretation antithetical to my principles as a person concerned for the good of all." If you think about it you'll see his point.
I act based on what I think is right, not who I think is right. That's why I try always to halt the destructive process that is carrying our civilization toward extinction. It's also why I say that he uses obscure words like "contemporaneousness" and "floccinaucinihilipilification" to conceal his agenda to force us to tailor our generalizations just to suit his superficial whims. I find that having to process phrases with long words like those makes me feel hoodwinked, inferior, definitely frustrated, and angry. That's why I strive for utmost clarity whenever I explain to others that once people obtain the critical skills that enable them to think and reflect and speculate independently, they'll realize that I can guarantee the readers of this letter that Logan is like a giant octopus sprawling its slimy length over city, state, and nation. Like the octopus of real life, he operates under cover of self-created screen. Logan seizes in his long and powerful tentacles our executive officers, our legislative bodies, our schools, our courts, our newspapers, and every agency created for the public protection. I have no problem with the manifestly obvious statement that I would sincerely be surprised if Logan stopped to communicate and share ideas with even one of the people he regularly attacks. I have no problem with the idea that Logan's harebrained "compromises" do not comport with my policy always to tell you a little bit about Logan and his baleful obiter dicta. And I have no problem with the special privileges occasionally granted to sex-crazed thieves. What I do have a problem with are Logan's vicious casus belli.
I want to go placidly amid the noise and haste. I want to do this not because I need to tack another line onto my résumé but because Logan once had the audacity to tell me that he can change his manipulative ways. My riposte was that there is no place in this country where we are safe from his understrappers, no place where we are not targeted for hatred and attack. Finding problems with Logan's heinous perversions is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. End of story. Actually, I should add that he and his cronies are, by nature, sick slackers. Not only can that nature not be changed by window-dressing or persiflage, but when Logan says that genocide, slavery, racism, and the systematic oppression, degradation, and exploitation of most of the world's people are all absolutely justified, in his mind, that's supposed to end the argument. It's like he believes he has said something very profound.
The tone of Logan's whinges is eerily reminiscent of that of cacodemonic, fatuous quiddlers of the late 1940s in the sense that if we foreground the cognitive and emotional palette of Logan's soulless arguments rather than their pathology we can enter vitally into his world. Why do we want to do that? Because at this point in the letter I had planned to tell you that the same poisonous spirit that infects the most quixotic adolescents you'll ever see also pollutes Logan's thinking. However, one of my colleagues pointed out that he can't throw away his integrity and expect the world to respect him for it. Hence, I discarded the discourse I had previously prepared and substituted the following discussion in which I argue that the one thing that's central to all of Logan's disgraceful homilies is a desire to tell us how to live, what to say, what to think, what to know, and—most importantly—what not to know. I call this the New Opportunism. The old opportunism was concerned only with creating an atmosphere of mistrust in which speculations and rumors gain the appearance of viability and compete openly with more carefully considered theories. Although that was bad enough, by indiscriminately assigning value to practically everything, Logan has made "experience" all-important. His experiences, however, are detached from any consideration of what is good or true, which means that they will almost certainly drag men out of their beds in the dead of night and castrate them in the coming days.
In an atmosphere of false rumors and misinformation, Logan is a financial predator who preys on the elderly, the gullible, and the vulnerable. He seeks their assets to support his own lavish lifestyle. Keep that in mind while I state the following: Before Logan once again claims that he's the best thing to come along since the invention of sliced bread, he should do some real research rather than simply play a game of bias reinforcement with his hatchet men.
My sources tell me that Logan intends to replace discourse and open dialogue with abhorrent pleas and blatant ugliness quicker than you can double-check the spelling of "hexosemonophosphoric". Not on my watch! I am therefore calling upon all good citizens to condemn his criminal ineptitude.
Malicious crooks bring this battle to a fever pitch. That said, we mustn't lose sight of who the real enemy is: Jerry Logan and his mindless shock troops. An ancient Greek once wrote something to the effect of, "He doesn't care much for airy-fairy things such as morality and integrity." Today, the same dictum applies, just as clearly as when it was first written over two thousand years ago.
For the moment, I will concentrate on the fact that Logan is willing to promote truth and justice when it's convenient. But when it threatens his creature comforts, Logan throws principle to the wind. He will hate me for saying this, but his attendants have been seen cultivating an unhealthy sense of victimhood. Logan claimed he would take responsibility for this uncouth behavior, but in fact he did nothing to fix matters or punish the culprits. This proves that Logan contends that obstructionism forms the core of any utopian society and that, therefore, he's a moral exemplar. This bizarre pattern of thinking leads to strange conclusions. For example, it convinces ridiculous liars and cheats (as distinct from the complacent, chthonic despots who prefer to chirrup while hopping from cloud to cloud in Nephelococcygia) that Logan is cunctipotent. In reality, contrariwise, the real question here is not, "Why does the media consistently refuse to acknowledge that it's no secret that Logan's quips are nothing short of spineless?". The real question is rather, "Has Logan ever considered what would happen if a small fraction of his time spent trying to make serious dialogue difficult or impossible was instead spent on something productive?" The answer is a bit of a taboo subject, but that won't stop me from telling you. You see, I'm convinced that Logan will publish blatantly judgmental rhetoric as "education" for children to learn in school before long. No, I'm not in tinfoil-hat land; I have abundant evidence from reliable sources that this is the case. For instance, Logan has been doing "in-depth research" (whatever he thinks that means) to prove that the majority of rummy sewer rats are heroes, if not saints. I should mention that I've been doing some research of my own. So far, I've "discovered" that in Logan's refrains, antipluralism is witting and unremitting, polyloquent and infantile. He revels in it, rolls in it, and uses it to deflect attention from his unwillingness to support policies that benefit the average citizen.
Logan accuses me of being bestial whenever I state that you have my word that compassion and moral principle are not the main motives for his actions. All right, I'll admit that I have a sharp tongue and sometimes write with a bit of a poison pen, but the fact remains that Logan's reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, he always begins an argument with his conclusion (e.g., that his apothegms are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos) and therefore—not surprisingly—he always arrives at that very conclusion. There's no shortage of sin in the world today. It's been around since the Garden of Eden and will honestly persist as long as Logan continues to cause riots in the streets. Last but not least, Jerry Logan's bilious expositions are not something that endears Logan to me.
Our real enemies are not people living in a distant land whose names we don't know and whose culture we don't understand. Our real enemies are Jerry Logan and all others who make communism socially acceptable. Though his mind games be madness, yet there is method to them. Step by step, they make it easier for Logan to mute the voice of anyone who dares to speak out against him. More prosaically, this is not the place to develop that subject. It demands many pages of analysis, which I can't spare in this letter. Instead, I'll just state the key point, which is that when I was a child my clergyman told me, "I consider Logan's methods of interpretation antithetical to my principles as a person concerned for the good of all." If you think about it you'll see his point.
I act based on what I think is right, not who I think is right. That's why I try always to halt the destructive process that is carrying our civilization toward extinction. It's also why I say that he uses obscure words like "contemporaneousness" and "floccinaucinihilipilification" to conceal his agenda to force us to tailor our generalizations just to suit his superficial whims. I find that having to process phrases with long words like those makes me feel hoodwinked, inferior, definitely frustrated, and angry. That's why I strive for utmost clarity whenever I explain to others that once people obtain the critical skills that enable them to think and reflect and speculate independently, they'll realize that I can guarantee the readers of this letter that Logan is like a giant octopus sprawling its slimy length over city, state, and nation. Like the octopus of real life, he operates under cover of self-created screen. Logan seizes in his long and powerful tentacles our executive officers, our legislative bodies, our schools, our courts, our newspapers, and every agency created for the public protection. I have no problem with the manifestly obvious statement that I would sincerely be surprised if Logan stopped to communicate and share ideas with even one of the people he regularly attacks. I have no problem with the idea that Logan's harebrained "compromises" do not comport with my policy always to tell you a little bit about Logan and his baleful obiter dicta. And I have no problem with the special privileges occasionally granted to sex-crazed thieves. What I do have a problem with are Logan's vicious casus belli.
I want to go placidly amid the noise and haste. I want to do this not because I need to tack another line onto my résumé but because Logan once had the audacity to tell me that he can change his manipulative ways. My riposte was that there is no place in this country where we are safe from his understrappers, no place where we are not targeted for hatred and attack. Finding problems with Logan's heinous perversions is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. End of story. Actually, I should add that he and his cronies are, by nature, sick slackers. Not only can that nature not be changed by window-dressing or persiflage, but when Logan says that genocide, slavery, racism, and the systematic oppression, degradation, and exploitation of most of the world's people are all absolutely justified, in his mind, that's supposed to end the argument. It's like he believes he has said something very profound.
The tone of Logan's whinges is eerily reminiscent of that of cacodemonic, fatuous quiddlers of the late 1940s in the sense that if we foreground the cognitive and emotional palette of Logan's soulless arguments rather than their pathology we can enter vitally into his world. Why do we want to do that? Because at this point in the letter I had planned to tell you that the same poisonous spirit that infects the most quixotic adolescents you'll ever see also pollutes Logan's thinking. However, one of my colleagues pointed out that he can't throw away his integrity and expect the world to respect him for it. Hence, I discarded the discourse I had previously prepared and substituted the following discussion in which I argue that the one thing that's central to all of Logan's disgraceful homilies is a desire to tell us how to live, what to say, what to think, what to know, and—most importantly—what not to know. I call this the New Opportunism. The old opportunism was concerned only with creating an atmosphere of mistrust in which speculations and rumors gain the appearance of viability and compete openly with more carefully considered theories. Although that was bad enough, by indiscriminately assigning value to practically everything, Logan has made "experience" all-important. His experiences, however, are detached from any consideration of what is good or true, which means that they will almost certainly drag men out of their beds in the dead of night and castrate them in the coming days.
In an atmosphere of false rumors and misinformation, Logan is a financial predator who preys on the elderly, the gullible, and the vulnerable. He seeks their assets to support his own lavish lifestyle. Keep that in mind while I state the following: Before Logan once again claims that he's the best thing to come along since the invention of sliced bread, he should do some real research rather than simply play a game of bias reinforcement with his hatchet men.
My sources tell me that Logan intends to replace discourse and open dialogue with abhorrent pleas and blatant ugliness quicker than you can double-check the spelling of "hexosemonophosphoric". Not on my watch! I am therefore calling upon all good citizens to condemn his criminal ineptitude.
Malicious crooks bring this battle to a fever pitch. That said, we mustn't lose sight of who the real enemy is: Jerry Logan and his mindless shock troops. An ancient Greek once wrote something to the effect of, "He doesn't care much for airy-fairy things such as morality and integrity." Today, the same dictum applies, just as clearly as when it was first written over two thousand years ago.
For the moment, I will concentrate on the fact that Logan is willing to promote truth and justice when it's convenient. But when it threatens his creature comforts, Logan throws principle to the wind. He will hate me for saying this, but his attendants have been seen cultivating an unhealthy sense of victimhood. Logan claimed he would take responsibility for this uncouth behavior, but in fact he did nothing to fix matters or punish the culprits. This proves that Logan contends that obstructionism forms the core of any utopian society and that, therefore, he's a moral exemplar. This bizarre pattern of thinking leads to strange conclusions. For example, it convinces ridiculous liars and cheats (as distinct from the complacent, chthonic despots who prefer to chirrup while hopping from cloud to cloud in Nephelococcygia) that Logan is cunctipotent. In reality, contrariwise, the real question here is not, "Why does the media consistently refuse to acknowledge that it's no secret that Logan's quips are nothing short of spineless?". The real question is rather, "Has Logan ever considered what would happen if a small fraction of his time spent trying to make serious dialogue difficult or impossible was instead spent on something productive?" The answer is a bit of a taboo subject, but that won't stop me from telling you. You see, I'm convinced that Logan will publish blatantly judgmental rhetoric as "education" for children to learn in school before long. No, I'm not in tinfoil-hat land; I have abundant evidence from reliable sources that this is the case. For instance, Logan has been doing "in-depth research" (whatever he thinks that means) to prove that the majority of rummy sewer rats are heroes, if not saints. I should mention that I've been doing some research of my own. So far, I've "discovered" that in Logan's refrains, antipluralism is witting and unremitting, polyloquent and infantile. He revels in it, rolls in it, and uses it to deflect attention from his unwillingness to support policies that benefit the average citizen.
Logan accuses me of being bestial whenever I state that you have my word that compassion and moral principle are not the main motives for his actions. All right, I'll admit that I have a sharp tongue and sometimes write with a bit of a poison pen, but the fact remains that Logan's reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, he always begins an argument with his conclusion (e.g., that his apothegms are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos) and therefore—not surprisingly—he always arrives at that very conclusion. There's no shortage of sin in the world today. It's been around since the Garden of Eden and will honestly persist as long as Logan continues to cause riots in the streets. Last but not least, Jerry Logan's bilious expositions are not something that endears Logan to me.
A falling knife has no handle.
July 6th, 2010 at 12:27:52 PM
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I'm sorry, but I just can't avoid talking about Jerry Logan. For complete details, I refer you to my forthcoming book on the subject. I shall here mention only a few random items that may be new or especially interesting to you. For instance, Logan's method (or school, or ideology—it is hard to know exactly what to call it) goes by the name of "Logan-ism". It is an inconsiderate and avowedly ridiculous philosophy that aims to produce precisely the alienation and conflict needed to create a climate of intimidation. Even his adherents couldn't deal with the full impact of his values. That's why they created "Logan-ism," which is just a boisterous excuse to force us to do things or take stands against our will.
The point is that most people aren't willing to swallow what Logan is serving up: a triple scoop of perverted sprinkled with perverted and topped off with warm perverted sauce. Blindly following, never asking questions, Logan's vicegerents incorporate Logan's dimwitted and anger-filled tirades as their own. It becomes impossible to change their views merely by explaining that Logan is frightened that we might find the common ground that enables others to take steps against the whole snarky brotherhood of the worst classes of virulent, sanctimonious cutthroats there are. That's why he's trying so hard to prevent whistleblowers from reporting that if it weren't for daft, pernicious televangelists, he would have no friends.
Having endured countless hours of listening to Logan's cold-blooded, coprophagous gibber, I can say with confidence that his theories have experienced a considerable amount of evolution (or perhaps more accurately, genetic drift) over the past few weeks. They used to be simply sleazy. Now, not only are they both whiney and worthless, but they also serve as unequivocal proof that I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to reinforce notions of positive self-esteem. I have one final message for you before ending this letter: Jerry Logan's whinges are argumentative in their impact, pretentious in their aspirations, sophomoric in their political deviousness, and dour in their parasitic philosophies.
The point is that most people aren't willing to swallow what Logan is serving up: a triple scoop of perverted sprinkled with perverted and topped off with warm perverted sauce. Blindly following, never asking questions, Logan's vicegerents incorporate Logan's dimwitted and anger-filled tirades as their own. It becomes impossible to change their views merely by explaining that Logan is frightened that we might find the common ground that enables others to take steps against the whole snarky brotherhood of the worst classes of virulent, sanctimonious cutthroats there are. That's why he's trying so hard to prevent whistleblowers from reporting that if it weren't for daft, pernicious televangelists, he would have no friends.
Having endured countless hours of listening to Logan's cold-blooded, coprophagous gibber, I can say with confidence that his theories have experienced a considerable amount of evolution (or perhaps more accurately, genetic drift) over the past few weeks. They used to be simply sleazy. Now, not only are they both whiney and worthless, but they also serve as unequivocal proof that I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to reinforce notions of positive self-esteem. I have one final message for you before ending this letter: Jerry Logan's whinges are argumentative in their impact, pretentious in their aspirations, sophomoric in their political deviousness, and dour in their parasitic philosophies.
A falling knife has no handle.
July 6th, 2010 at 12:30:42 PM
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There are people I unquestionably despise. They lack morals, character, and honesty. They make the pot of pauperism overboil and scald the whole world. In case you can't tell, I'm talking about Jerry Logan here. Whoa! Don't stampede for the exits! I promise I'll get to the main topic of this letter, Logan's disingenuous campaigns of malice and malignity, in just a few sentences. I simply feel it's important first to provide some additional context by mentioning that honest people will admit that Logan's apparatchiks have coordinated their propaganda efforts into a superbly-wrought symphony of hatred and destruction. Concerned people are not afraid to stand uncompromised in a world that's on the brink of Logan-induced disaster. And sensible people know that Logan somehow manages to get away with spreading lies (his circulars are not worth getting outraged about), distortions (we can change the truth if we don't like it the way it is), and misplaced idealism (mediocrity and normalcy are ideal virtues). However, when I try to respond in kind, I get censored faster than you can say "extraterritoriality".
I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to take steps against the whole surly brotherhood of tyrannical know-it-alls. Honor means nothing to Logan. Principles mean nothing to Logan. All he cares about is how to enable the most cynical nabobs of parasitism you'll ever see to punch above their weight. It's clearly astounding that he has found a way to work the words "parasympathomimetic" and "saccharogalactorrhea" into his squibs. However, you may find it even more astounding that if one believes statements like, "Logan's calumnies are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos," one is, in effect, supporting vitriolic, stuporous beggars.
Many people aren't aware of how arrogant Logan's opinions are, so let's present a little breakdown. First off, Logan is just trying to pick a fight. That's why he says that he acts in the public interest. I fear the shallow orthodoxies of Logan's uncontrollable, conniving form of elitism for a variety of reasons. For instance, I believe I have finally figured out what makes people like Logan sensationalize all of the issues. It appears to be a combination of an overactive mind, lack of common sense, assurance of one's own moral propriety, and a total lack of exposure to the real world. I need your help if I'm ever to take off the kid gloves and vent some real anger at him. "But I'm only one person," you might protest. "What difference can I make?" The answer is: a lot more than you think. You see, many people lie. However, Logan lies with such ease it's troubling.
That reminds me: Logan takes things out of context, twists them around, and then neglects to provide decent referencing so the reader can check up on him. He also ignores all of the evidence that doesn't support (or in many cases directly contradicts) his position. Isn't it interesting which questions he dodges and what tangents he goes off on? Those dodges and tangents make me think that in order to maintain harmony with my conscience I must empower the oppressed to control their own lives. An equal but opposite observation is that he has not increased our safety, security, or happiness by exerting more and more control over other individuals. All he's increased by doing that is the girth of his bloated ego.
In order to solve the big problems with Logan we must first understand these problems, and to understand them, we must help people see his fatuitous doctrines for what they are. As long as I live and breathe, I will strive to send his stratagems into the dustbin where they belong. Now that that's cleared up, I'll continue with what I was saying before, that he likes saying that the future of the entire world rests in his hands. Okay, that's a parody—but not a very gross one. In point of fact, Logan appears committed to the proposition that his views are correct, self-evident, and based on fact and reason, while other people's positions are not just wrong but illegitimate, ideological, and unworthy of serious consideration. If you were to get a second opinion from someone who's not a member of Logan's imperium, however, he'd of course tell you that you can observe a definite bias in Logan's codices relating to inarticulate, callow nebbishes. I won't dwell on that except to direct your attention to the obdurate manner in which he has been trying to make us too confused, demoralized, and disunited to put up an effective opposition to his screeds. I'd like to end this letter with a message for Jerry Logan. I'd like to say with emphasis and distinctness—not as a threat, but as a warning—that I will do whatever it takes to challenge Logan's self-righteous assumptions about merit, and I won't let Logan stop me from achieving that goal.
I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to take steps against the whole surly brotherhood of tyrannical know-it-alls. Honor means nothing to Logan. Principles mean nothing to Logan. All he cares about is how to enable the most cynical nabobs of parasitism you'll ever see to punch above their weight. It's clearly astounding that he has found a way to work the words "parasympathomimetic" and "saccharogalactorrhea" into his squibs. However, you may find it even more astounding that if one believes statements like, "Logan's calumnies are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos," one is, in effect, supporting vitriolic, stuporous beggars.
Many people aren't aware of how arrogant Logan's opinions are, so let's present a little breakdown. First off, Logan is just trying to pick a fight. That's why he says that he acts in the public interest. I fear the shallow orthodoxies of Logan's uncontrollable, conniving form of elitism for a variety of reasons. For instance, I believe I have finally figured out what makes people like Logan sensationalize all of the issues. It appears to be a combination of an overactive mind, lack of common sense, assurance of one's own moral propriety, and a total lack of exposure to the real world. I need your help if I'm ever to take off the kid gloves and vent some real anger at him. "But I'm only one person," you might protest. "What difference can I make?" The answer is: a lot more than you think. You see, many people lie. However, Logan lies with such ease it's troubling.
That reminds me: Logan takes things out of context, twists them around, and then neglects to provide decent referencing so the reader can check up on him. He also ignores all of the evidence that doesn't support (or in many cases directly contradicts) his position. Isn't it interesting which questions he dodges and what tangents he goes off on? Those dodges and tangents make me think that in order to maintain harmony with my conscience I must empower the oppressed to control their own lives. An equal but opposite observation is that he has not increased our safety, security, or happiness by exerting more and more control over other individuals. All he's increased by doing that is the girth of his bloated ego.
In order to solve the big problems with Logan we must first understand these problems, and to understand them, we must help people see his fatuitous doctrines for what they are. As long as I live and breathe, I will strive to send his stratagems into the dustbin where they belong. Now that that's cleared up, I'll continue with what I was saying before, that he likes saying that the future of the entire world rests in his hands. Okay, that's a parody—but not a very gross one. In point of fact, Logan appears committed to the proposition that his views are correct, self-evident, and based on fact and reason, while other people's positions are not just wrong but illegitimate, ideological, and unworthy of serious consideration. If you were to get a second opinion from someone who's not a member of Logan's imperium, however, he'd of course tell you that you can observe a definite bias in Logan's codices relating to inarticulate, callow nebbishes. I won't dwell on that except to direct your attention to the obdurate manner in which he has been trying to make us too confused, demoralized, and disunited to put up an effective opposition to his screeds. I'd like to end this letter with a message for Jerry Logan. I'd like to say with emphasis and distinctness—not as a threat, but as a warning—that I will do whatever it takes to challenge Logan's self-righteous assumptions about merit, and I won't let Logan stop me from achieving that goal.
A falling knife has no handle.
July 6th, 2010 at 12:41:46 PM
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Mosca = JerryLogan?
July 6th, 2010 at 12:45:37 PM
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Mosca reads like a automated insult generator... I've seen one somewhere...
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 6th, 2010 at 12:46:20 PM
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Quote: dlevinelawMosca = JerryLogan?
LOL, no. I'm not psychotic. I just do the wall o' text thing as the equivalent of vuvuzelas, drowning out the troll talk. I even got it to answer a couple times.
Quote: thecesspitMosca reads like a automated insult generator... I've seen one somewhere...
Shhhhh... I had it hooked there for a few minutes!
A falling knife has no handle.
July 6th, 2010 at 2:52:18 PM
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Quote: dlevinelawMosca = JerryLogan?
Imagine his bedtime rituals....
Ok Ok, he's a one-liner's DREAM!!
July 6th, 2010 at 3:26:42 PM
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Flagitious. Unctuous. Overbearing. In case you can't tell, I'm making a direct reference to the troll. It isn't important whether you agree with every detail that I intend to present. What matters is that you begin to realize that the troll keeps talking about the importance of its cause. As far as I can tell, its "cause" is to marginalize dissident voices. It deeply believes—and wants us to believe as well—that its cause is just, that it's moral, and that the world will love the troll for promoting it. In reality, we must make plans and carry them out. Our children depend on that.
The troll is operating under the misguided assumption that we can stop denominationalism merely by permitting government officials entrée into private homes to search for sleazy mouthpieces for nugatory sesquipedalianism. End of story. Actually, I should add that the whole of its hideous worldview may perhaps be expressed in one simple word. That word is "metagrobolism". Let me explain: The troll's allies like to say, "Unfounded attacks on character, loads of hyperbole, and fallacious information are the best way to make a point." Such frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. If someone wants me to believe something libidinous like that, that person will have to show me some concrete evidence. Meanwhile, I intend to show you that the troll wants to subvert time-tested societal norms. Personally, I don't want that. Personally, I prefer freedom. If you also prefer freedom then you should be working with me to build a new understanding that can transport us to tomorrow.
It is never easy to judge what the most appropriate or effective response to the troll's nit-picky, crafty insinuations is, but one unfortunate fact remains clear: the troll is currently limited to shrieking and spitting when it is confronted with inconvenient facts. As soon as our backs are turned, however, the troll is likely to switch to some sort of "allow federally funded research to mushroom into an insipid, grossly inefficient system, hampered by short-sighted hostes generis humani and gutless witlings" approach to draw our attention away from such facts. The purpose of this post is far greater than to prove to you how morally crippled and brutish it has become. The purpose of this post is to get you to start thinking for yourself, to start thinking about how when I say that its metanarratives are huffy, I mean it. I don't mean that they remind me of something huffy or that they have one or two huffy characteristics. I mean that they are huffy. In fact, the most huffy thing about them is the way that they prevent people from seeing that people sometimes ask me why I seem incapable of saying anything nice about the troll. I'd like to—really, I would. The problem is, I can't think of anything nice to say. I guess that's not surprising when you consider that over time, the troll's warnings have progressed from being merely appalling to being superappalling, hyperappalling, and recently ultraappalling. In fact, I'd say that now they're even megaappalling. While reading this post, you may have occasionally asked yourself, "Where is all of this leading?" and, "What is the point exactly?" I deliberately wrote in the style I did so that you may come up with your own conclusions. Therefore, I leave you with only the following: the troll engages in pietistic babble that nauseates even some of my more religious friends.
The troll is operating under the misguided assumption that we can stop denominationalism merely by permitting government officials entrée into private homes to search for sleazy mouthpieces for nugatory sesquipedalianism. End of story. Actually, I should add that the whole of its hideous worldview may perhaps be expressed in one simple word. That word is "metagrobolism". Let me explain: The troll's allies like to say, "Unfounded attacks on character, loads of hyperbole, and fallacious information are the best way to make a point." Such frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. If someone wants me to believe something libidinous like that, that person will have to show me some concrete evidence. Meanwhile, I intend to show you that the troll wants to subvert time-tested societal norms. Personally, I don't want that. Personally, I prefer freedom. If you also prefer freedom then you should be working with me to build a new understanding that can transport us to tomorrow.
It is never easy to judge what the most appropriate or effective response to the troll's nit-picky, crafty insinuations is, but one unfortunate fact remains clear: the troll is currently limited to shrieking and spitting when it is confronted with inconvenient facts. As soon as our backs are turned, however, the troll is likely to switch to some sort of "allow federally funded research to mushroom into an insipid, grossly inefficient system, hampered by short-sighted hostes generis humani and gutless witlings" approach to draw our attention away from such facts. The purpose of this post is far greater than to prove to you how morally crippled and brutish it has become. The purpose of this post is to get you to start thinking for yourself, to start thinking about how when I say that its metanarratives are huffy, I mean it. I don't mean that they remind me of something huffy or that they have one or two huffy characteristics. I mean that they are huffy. In fact, the most huffy thing about them is the way that they prevent people from seeing that people sometimes ask me why I seem incapable of saying anything nice about the troll. I'd like to—really, I would. The problem is, I can't think of anything nice to say. I guess that's not surprising when you consider that over time, the troll's warnings have progressed from being merely appalling to being superappalling, hyperappalling, and recently ultraappalling. In fact, I'd say that now they're even megaappalling. While reading this post, you may have occasionally asked yourself, "Where is all of this leading?" and, "What is the point exactly?" I deliberately wrote in the style I did so that you may come up with your own conclusions. Therefore, I leave you with only the following: the troll engages in pietistic babble that nauseates even some of my more religious friends.
A falling knife has no handle.
July 6th, 2010 at 3:56:43 PM
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where's mosca copying/pasting this crap from?
On the off chance he's typing it up, then he IS psychotic.
On the off chance he's typing it up, then he IS psychotic.
July 6th, 2010 at 4:05:57 PM
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Quote: f2dwhere's mosca copying/pasting this crap from?
On the off chance he's typing it up, then he IS psychotic.
It's just the forum equivalent of vuvuzelas. Background noise. I got it to reply to a couple of them, then it was tipped off, and now it's back to its usual state.
http://www.pakin.org/complaint
A falling knife has no handle.
July 6th, 2010 at 5:23:48 PM
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Quote: MoscaIt's just the forum equivalent of vuvuzelas. Background noise. I got it to reply to a couple of them, then it was tipped off, and now it's back to its usual state.
http://www.pakin.org/complaint
I'd ask mosca to pick a river, then cry it for me!
July 6th, 2010 at 6:23:39 PM
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So, have we decided that most people tip everyone that helps them out, except the cashier?
July 6th, 2010 at 6:37:54 PM
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Quote: luckyjackgSo, have we decided that most people tip evryone that helps them out, except the cashier?
Yep, and Jerry only tips food service people that threaten to spit in his food if he doesn't.
July 6th, 2010 at 6:54:17 PM
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Well, despite Mr Logan's political beliefs, can this post possibly top the 1.41% HA one? Where's tuttigym to weigh in?
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
July 6th, 2010 at 7:40:27 PM
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Quote: boymimboWell, despite Mr Logan's political beliefs, can this post possibly top the 1.41% HA one? Where's tuttigym to weigh in?
First one to start the thread called "The hoax that is tipping 1.41% inside casinos as a result of sevenshooter's ultimate strategy" gets a Wizard of Vegas t-shirt. Or not.
Insurance is closed.
July 9th, 2010 at 5:55:35 PM
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Quote: f2dYep, and Jerry only tips food service people that threaten to spit in his food if he doesn't.
When a waiter was asked if crabs were served in his restauraunt he replied - oh yes ... we serve anybody!
Sanitized for Your Protection
July 10th, 2010 at 4:35:49 AM
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This debate on tipping is always the same. The opening scene from Reservoir Dogs summarizes the usual arguments on both sides perfectly and humorously. If you haven't seen it, click on the link. You can fast forward to the 4:15 point, and can stop at the 7:30 point.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 10th, 2010 at 5:18:22 AM
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That's hilarious. Thanks. I gotta put that one on my rental list....Quote: WizardThe opening scene from Reservoir Dogs summarizes the usual arguments on both sides perfectly and humorously.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 10th, 2010 at 8:20:44 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThanks. I gotta put that one on my rental list....
You're welcome. Be warned, that movie gets very violent and bloody later on.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 10th, 2010 at 10:27:13 AM
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The nuance in the scene, though, is that Mr Pink (Buscemi) doesn't tip because he's a "cheap bastard", as Cabot (Tierney) says. He deflected it into a philosophical argument against tipping, to try to avoid throwing in a buck. He should have just fessed up to being cheap.
A falling knife has no handle.
July 10th, 2010 at 3:35:35 PM
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Well, often I'm a cheap bastard... but in a casino, I tip generously.
July 10th, 2010 at 3:48:38 PM
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Quote: WizardYou're welcome. Be warned, that movie gets very violent and bloody later on.
What Quentin Tarantino movie doesn't get extremely violent and bloody?
July 10th, 2010 at 5:42:24 PM
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Came late to this thread and it's a good one, great job guys. I normally don't pay for hotel rooms. So my only cost is $5 per day left for the maid. I don't think they get paid enough and usually they are not the best looking in the crowd, so being a CW is not an option. Just my two cents.....
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
July 11th, 2010 at 6:19:48 AM
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As soon as our Government finally eliminates illegal aliens from the workplace, all those housemaids will be fat & ugly old men. Whether paying for a room or it's comped, I'll never understand the mindset of tipping people who take a job that says to freshen up hotel rooms. What no one will admit to is how they're intimidated into tipping those people by the envelopes left in the room signed "Maria" or "Ruzella". Not all that different from the pressure the cashiers in the casinos put on the customers by all the sweet talk and smiles while they're handing over YOUR cash. Or from the floorlings that handpay jackpots.
Tipping these non-service people is only done out of personal weakness, poor self-confidence, and insecurities.
Tipping these non-service people is only done out of personal weakness, poor self-confidence, and insecurities.
July 11th, 2010 at 9:12:29 AM
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Quote: JerryLoganAs soon as our Government finally eliminates illegal aliens from the workplace, all those housemaids will be fat & ugly old men. Whether paying for a room or it's comped, I'll never understand the mindset of tipping people who take a job that says to freshen up hotel rooms. What no one will admit to is how they're intimidated into tipping those people by the envelopes left in the room signed "Maria" or "Ruzella". Not all that different from the pressure the cashiers in the casinos put on the customers by all the sweet talk and smiles while they're handing over YOUR cash. Or from the floorlings that handpay jackpots.
Tipping these non-service people is only done out of personal weakness, poor self-confidence, and insecurities.
Given how popular amnesty is, I don't see how you're right about the fat ugly men. But even beyond that, hotel employees at gaming properties are subject to pretty strict documentation requirements when they're hired. Maria and Ruzella would have to be quite daring and desperate to take these jobs if they're illegals.
I also don't see a distinction between "people who take a job that says to freshen up hotel rooms" and people who take a job that says to freshen up my drink. In both cases, the people are doing exactly what they've signed on for and nothing more. And you've said previously that you tip waitstaff 20%...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
July 11th, 2010 at 11:10:38 AM
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Indian casinos with hotels are famous for hiring illegals, and they'll continue to do so until someone stops them. And right now I don't trust Nevada or AC casinos to be doing their parts either. The only thing popular about the amnesty issue is which way it's politicized.
Freshening up rooms is much different than freshening up a drink. Tips are a major part of a cocktail server's/bartender's salary expectation; not nearly so for the housekeeping crew. Cruise ships are a big abuser of people over housekeeping tips. You are continually pressured and pressured and pressured and expected to tip big time as you get ready to leave the ship. I enjoy completely stiffing those people after all that phoniness, who typically are comprised of the lower level of third world society that envy & hate Americans. But if it were up to our minority-sympathetic Obama, he'd be directing the redistribution of wealth as a requirement of every passenger's boarding payment.
Freshening up rooms is much different than freshening up a drink. Tips are a major part of a cocktail server's/bartender's salary expectation; not nearly so for the housekeeping crew. Cruise ships are a big abuser of people over housekeeping tips. You are continually pressured and pressured and pressured and expected to tip big time as you get ready to leave the ship. I enjoy completely stiffing those people after all that phoniness, who typically are comprised of the lower level of third world society that envy & hate Americans. But if it were up to our minority-sympathetic Obama, he'd be directing the redistribution of wealth as a requirement of every passenger's boarding payment.
July 11th, 2010 at 11:47:13 AM
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Quote: JerryLogan
Freshening up rooms is much different than freshening up a drink. Tips are a major part of a cocktail server's/bartender's salary expectation; not nearly so for the housekeeping crew. Cruise ships are a big abuser of people over housekeeping tips. You are continually pressured and pressured and pressured and expected to tip big time as you get ready to leave the ship. I enjoy completely stiffing those people after all that phoniness, who typically are comprised of the lower level of third world society that envy & hate Americans. But if it were up to our minority-sympathetic Obama, he'd be directing the redistribution of wealth as a requirement of every passenger's boarding payment.
Uh, you are contradicting yourself...tips are part of the salary expectation for a blackjack dealer, or cruise ship valet, just as much as they are for a waitress/bartender. Blackjack dealers here get paid $6/hr from the casino. Most bartenders get a higher base wage than that. If you are to continue your tipping philosophy, you should continue it on to any and all in the service industries.
That said, I have very rarely ever tipped housekeeping. Unless they've done something above and beyond to satisfy a specific request, I don't tip them. In fact, Vegas may be the only place where I've even seen it encouraged - outside of the cruise ship experience, which is a little different I suppose. The valets for your rooms on ships are almost always right near your room to get you ice or anything else you might require. Hotel housekeeping usually requires a phone call and then you wait for ever sometimes to get a response.
July 11th, 2010 at 1:16:46 PM
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Quote: ruascottUh, you are contradicting yourself...tips are part of the salary expectation for a blackjack dealer, or cruise ship valet, just as much as they are for a waitress/bartender. Blackjack dealers here get paid $6/hr from the casino. Most bartenders get a higher base wage than that. If you are to continue your tipping philosophy, you should continue it on to any and all in the service industries.
That said, I have very rarely ever tipped housekeeping. Unless they've done something above and beyond to satisfy a specific request, I don't tip them. In fact, Vegas may be the only place where I've even seen it encouraged - outside of the cruise ship experience, which is a little different I suppose. The valets for your rooms on ships are almost always right near your room to get you ice or anything else you might require. Hotel housekeeping usually requires a phone call and then you wait for ever sometimes to get a response.
No, BJ dealers try to manipulate the tips out of players because they know what players do in their moments of weakness. Waiters/waitresses do not need to stoop so low in order to receive their tips for good service. They merely have to DO THEIR JOBS. And one thing I couldn't care less about is how much other people with other professions earn. If everyone were always concerned abut that other than neurotically manipulated tip-givers, I'd be expecting a tip from every customer I deal with and it ain't gonna happen.
July 11th, 2010 at 3:44:31 PM
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I'll put in my two cents on this topic. I tip when tipping is expected. It often doesn't make sense why one profession is tipped and another is not. However, I don't make the rules, but generally go along with them, for the same reason I try to follow proper etiquette in anything.
There are some grey areas where I favor not tipping, or not tipping much. For example, hand pays on slot machine jackpots. I've heard it said you're supposed to tip up to 10%. My standard is 0.5% to 1.0%, depending on the denomination. I also avoid tipping people that in recent years only have started hustling tips, lest they are added to the groups in which tipping is expected. A good example of that is cashiers, both at the cage and sports book. I might make an exception for a really gigantic win, or I received some kind of service from the cashier beyond the call of duty, but so far neither has ever happened.
There are some grey areas where I favor not tipping, or not tipping much. For example, hand pays on slot machine jackpots. I've heard it said you're supposed to tip up to 10%. My standard is 0.5% to 1.0%, depending on the denomination. I also avoid tipping people that in recent years only have started hustling tips, lest they are added to the groups in which tipping is expected. A good example of that is cashiers, both at the cage and sports book. I might make an exception for a really gigantic win, or I received some kind of service from the cashier beyond the call of duty, but so far neither has ever happened.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 11th, 2010 at 3:59:10 PM
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Quote: JerryLoganNo, BJ dealers try to manipulate the tips out of players because they know what players do in their moments of weakness.
I tip the dealers at table games fairly regularly, but I have never, ever observed a dealer solicit a tip in any fashion. Except for one jackass dealer of three card poker on a dinky cruise ship. About 20 years ago.
July 11th, 2010 at 4:21:49 PM
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Quote: PapaChubbyI tip the dealers at table games fairly regularly, but I have never, ever observed a dealer solicit a tip in any fashion. Except for one jackass dealer of three card poker on a dinky cruise ship. About 20 years ago.
I tip dealers based on the service I'm getting. I expect some friendly rapport. If I don't get a verbal thank you for the first tip (tapping the table doesn't count), then I won't tip again. For basic good service I think a rough guide would be tipping 2*sqrt(average bet) per hour.
I've experienced soft hustling at casinos like Pechanga, where dealers keep their own tips. The flip side of that is you tend to get better service if you do tip at such casinos.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 11th, 2010 at 9:43:18 PM
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Here's how I see it. I have a great job. I don't get tipped because I am in an industry where I already get alot of perks. I stay at hotels, eat in restaurants... I've been even known to be in a casino from time to time. I have alot of dealings with the service industry, and I tip them fairly decently.
The reason that I tip them decently is because I get by quite well in life. I have been fortunate, have had some luck, was born with good parents and brains, and I also worked hard to get where I am in life. The reason that I tip is because people are providing a service to me. Yes, they are doing their job, but there is really no good reason I can think of why the person scrubbing the floor after I leave the room shouldn't be paid a living wage. There is really no good reason I can think of why I wouldn't tip a taxi driver, or a bartender, or a casino dealer. They just haven't been as fortunate as I have.
Now I completely understand that the reason why I am paying a certain rate in the hotel I stay in is low, and that is because they pay people the least that they can. The reason that they get tipped by me is because I want good decent people to do the job. Inotherwords, the tips that these people get make their job tolerable to them. It prevents them from hating their job, from spitting in my drink, from taking my passport, from misdealing the cards. Hopefully, they can take some of that extra money beyond minimum wage and buy more healthier foods, get their kids some decent books, and maybe take a couple of extra courses that will move them up the career ladder. I tip based on the type of service I get, within the common guidelines.
The reason why unemployment is so high and why illegal immigration is rampant is because Americans refuse to do the hard work and minimum paying jobs that are out there. That's why you'll see the illegal immigrant cutting your friend's lawn. A neighborhood kid could do that job, but he's too lazy, would rather play his x-box, and will collect a generous allowance from mommy and divorced daddy later. Californians need their illegal immigrants at the wineries to keep the price of a bottle of Cabernet low and because Americans don't accept the terrible working conditions.
Maybe the solution would be to stop tipping altogether and make wages in general higher. I don't agree with this either as the people in the service industry should be rewarded for their quality of service, and there is nothing better than the tip to express this gratitude.
The reason that I tip them decently is because I get by quite well in life. I have been fortunate, have had some luck, was born with good parents and brains, and I also worked hard to get where I am in life. The reason that I tip is because people are providing a service to me. Yes, they are doing their job, but there is really no good reason I can think of why the person scrubbing the floor after I leave the room shouldn't be paid a living wage. There is really no good reason I can think of why I wouldn't tip a taxi driver, or a bartender, or a casino dealer. They just haven't been as fortunate as I have.
Now I completely understand that the reason why I am paying a certain rate in the hotel I stay in is low, and that is because they pay people the least that they can. The reason that they get tipped by me is because I want good decent people to do the job. Inotherwords, the tips that these people get make their job tolerable to them. It prevents them from hating their job, from spitting in my drink, from taking my passport, from misdealing the cards. Hopefully, they can take some of that extra money beyond minimum wage and buy more healthier foods, get their kids some decent books, and maybe take a couple of extra courses that will move them up the career ladder. I tip based on the type of service I get, within the common guidelines.
The reason why unemployment is so high and why illegal immigration is rampant is because Americans refuse to do the hard work and minimum paying jobs that are out there. That's why you'll see the illegal immigrant cutting your friend's lawn. A neighborhood kid could do that job, but he's too lazy, would rather play his x-box, and will collect a generous allowance from mommy and divorced daddy later. Californians need their illegal immigrants at the wineries to keep the price of a bottle of Cabernet low and because Americans don't accept the terrible working conditions.
Maybe the solution would be to stop tipping altogether and make wages in general higher. I don't agree with this either as the people in the service industry should be rewarded for their quality of service, and there is nothing better than the tip to express this gratitude.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
July 11th, 2010 at 10:52:14 PM
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I really agree with you, I worked sorta hard to get my B.A. Everyone said if you go to college you can get a good job. It is the biggest lie ever. I have applied to nearly a thousand jobs that pay more than the $10 an hour I make now at the bagel shop I work at now. I am lucky to have that job since I was unemployed for nine months after graduating college. I am trying to make enough to have my own apartment and I get rejected from jobs that only require a hs diploma. Tips help even if it is just $1 it makes the day better and shows the customer sees you as human. Noahs/ Einsteins forbids tips but if someone offers I take it and accept it as a cash gift! I tip well because I work in the industry, anyone at the casino can spare $1 for the cage and drink girls and $5 here and there for the dealers it is small but it makes a difference.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:55:00 AM
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One thing I don't do is feel sorry for what other people are doing. I too have been a little lucky and have worked hard to get to my income and job level and have a strong family foundation to have begun all that. And who doesn't know how unfortunate a lot of those working in the service industry are? But it is not my job to be a re-distribution socialist at casinos, esp. with the monies in MY pocket.
July 12th, 2010 at 5:32:51 AM
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Here's a good question for the average advantage player who tips on handpays as the Wizard does: I play for entertainment while trying to win a few bucks here and there, and I play a good amount for not living in Las Vegas. I probably get a couple hundred thousand worth of handpays each year on average, but I usually lose by the end of each year.
Advantage players are finding things tighter and tighter. They squeeze in every ounce of edge they can. So isn't leaving a handpay tip counter-productive in that respect? Also, how can a cashier-tip regardless of win amount or quality of service (it's robotic if you ask me) be justified & tolerated by true advantage players?
Advantage players are finding things tighter and tighter. They squeeze in every ounce of edge they can. So isn't leaving a handpay tip counter-productive in that respect? Also, how can a cashier-tip regardless of win amount or quality of service (it's robotic if you ask me) be justified & tolerated by true advantage players?
July 12th, 2010 at 7:25:47 AM
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The rationale behind tips is the same as that behind sales commissions and productivity bonuses: to reward and thus give an incentive for good service, or higher sales or productivity. The reason is not that employers are too cheap or heartless to pay a decent wage.
But pooling tips or commissions does tend to bring service quality and sales quality down. I can best explain this by using a production bonus as an example:
Suppose a clothes' factory pays the seamstresses minimum wage plus a bonus based on pieces produced per week. Let's say 10 pieces equal a bonus of 20% of the base salary, 20 pieces 30%, 30 pieces 80% and 40 pieces 110% (the numbers are by way of example, but higher production is supposed to yield higher rewards than lower production).
For simplicity lat's say you have 5 workers. Say that 4 produce 30 to 40 pieces reliably each week, while the fifth produces only 8 or 9, never even reahcing the low bonus. If the bonus is awarded individually, then that worker gets nothing beyond minimum wage, and the others get about twice that per month.
But if the bonus is pooled, then in a good week instead of five minimum salaries, the employer pays nine. This breaks down to 1.8 base salaries for each employee. This means the four good employees get shortchanged 20% of what they earned, while the lazy or incompetent one (or lazy and incompetent) has a net gain of 80% for as small an effort as she can manage.
I know a few clothing manufacturers and I can tell you many use a bonus system, but none pool the bonuses. Employees rise or fall on their own merit, not their co-workers'. I can stste the same about sales commissions in department stores.
Therefore it puzzles me that restaurants and casinos would pool tips.
In some restaurants the tips the waiters get are split with the buss boys and some of the kitchen staff, or so I've heard. This makes sense,a s they all have a hand in the quality of the services rendered. That's not quite the same as pooling tips, but it may be how the practice got started. Do casino delaers split their tips with other casino personnel?
But pooling tips or commissions does tend to bring service quality and sales quality down. I can best explain this by using a production bonus as an example:
Suppose a clothes' factory pays the seamstresses minimum wage plus a bonus based on pieces produced per week. Let's say 10 pieces equal a bonus of 20% of the base salary, 20 pieces 30%, 30 pieces 80% and 40 pieces 110% (the numbers are by way of example, but higher production is supposed to yield higher rewards than lower production).
For simplicity lat's say you have 5 workers. Say that 4 produce 30 to 40 pieces reliably each week, while the fifth produces only 8 or 9, never even reahcing the low bonus. If the bonus is awarded individually, then that worker gets nothing beyond minimum wage, and the others get about twice that per month.
But if the bonus is pooled, then in a good week instead of five minimum salaries, the employer pays nine. This breaks down to 1.8 base salaries for each employee. This means the four good employees get shortchanged 20% of what they earned, while the lazy or incompetent one (or lazy and incompetent) has a net gain of 80% for as small an effort as she can manage.
I know a few clothing manufacturers and I can tell you many use a bonus system, but none pool the bonuses. Employees rise or fall on their own merit, not their co-workers'. I can stste the same about sales commissions in department stores.
Therefore it puzzles me that restaurants and casinos would pool tips.
In some restaurants the tips the waiters get are split with the buss boys and some of the kitchen staff, or so I've heard. This makes sense,a s they all have a hand in the quality of the services rendered. That's not quite the same as pooling tips, but it may be how the practice got started. Do casino delaers split their tips with other casino personnel?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 12th, 2010 at 7:52:25 AM
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The best argument I've heard for casino tip pooling is that dealer rotations are usually pit-specific. Pooling tips protects good dealers in floor-only games (carnival games) from being under-compensated for their work relative to average BJ dealers dealers who work in the high-stakes pit.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
July 12th, 2010 at 8:26:05 AM
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Quote: rdw4potusThe best argument I've heard for casino tip pooling is that dealer rotations are usually pit-specific. Pooling tips protects good dealers in floor-only games (carnival games) from being under-compensated for their work relative to average BJ dealers dealers who work in the high-stakes pit.
I don't know how you could not pool tips at the craps table. Those guys & girls seem to rotate A LOT, I've noticed way more than any other table game. I usually don't tip until I color up, unless I'm having a real long (or good) session, so its just luck as to what dealer would be there when I decided to leave. I always assumed they pooled tips at all the craps tables.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:53:11 AM
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Quote: JerryLoganOne thing I don't do is feel sorry for what other people are doing. I too have been a little lucky and have worked hard to get to my income and job level and have a strong family foundation to have begun all that. And who doesn't know how unfortunate a lot of those working in the service industry are? But it is not my job to be a re-distribution socialist at casinos, esp. with the monies in MY pocket.
I guess we differ in that respect. I don't feel sorry for what they are doing as well, but I do feel that the service that they provide is valuable to me, be it the extra bottle of shampoo, taking the most direct route to your destination, or being friendly at a table. I tip based on the quality of that service as it makes a difference to me. If I was a true socialist, I would give everyone an equal tip based on nothing. What I am doing is rewarding people for the value that they provide to me, over and beyond the minimum wage that they receive, keeping in mind that the business model at hand is that a substantial portion of their take-home pay is tips.
Put it this way. Would you rather not tip the server and have the company pay the employee $20 / hour and pass along the pricing to you in elevated prices and get crappy service?
Hasn't the whole capitalist movement been to bust unions (Walmart), to pay employees the lowest amount possible (McDonalds), and to outsource everything else (every major company)?
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I do agree with Nareed that tips that are shared among all staff do not make sense. But at the casino I frequent, dealers are moved all over the place, and I think it would be difficult for a casino to measure the exact amount of tips a dealer makes every night (not impossible, mind you). And some dealers work differently based on this knowledge.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
July 12th, 2010 at 9:02:04 AM
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My hypothesis is that casino tips are pooled because females make more tips than males but males make the decision to pool or not to pool.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:24:45 AM
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Quote: JerryLoganHere's a good question for the average advantage player who tips on handpays as the Wizard does: I play for entertainment while trying to win a few bucks here and there, and I play a good amount for not living in Las Vegas. I probably get a couple hundred thousand worth of handpays each year on average, but I usually lose by the end of each year.
Advantage players are finding things tighter and tighter. They squeeze in every ounce of edge they can. So isn't leaving a handpay tip counter-productive in that respect? Also, how can a cashier-tip regardless of win amount or quality of service (it's robotic if you ask me) be justified & tolerated by true advantage players?
First, I have never tipped a casino cashier. However, I think it is appropriate to tip the slot attendants that do hand pays. They do more than just hand you money when you win. When you play somewhere repeatedly, you get to know them, and they provide personal service beyond just turning a key and handing you money.
As a skilled player I usually fly above the radar. I play at the same places over and over for years. When you do that, it is important to be liked. Common courtesy goes a longer way than tipping towards that end, but the cost of tips is still worth it. You get better information, are invited to better events, and problems are more likely to get resolved your way.
Regarding tip pooling, I've asked lots of dealers how they feel about it. Most favor it, because tips are extremely correlated to the game, shift, and location. A dealer working Casino War is going to get a lot less than a blackjack dealer in the high limit room. All the dealers know this, and fight vigorously for the best tables and times. Favoritism and politics behind the scenes becomes rampant. Casino managers I've spoken to say it is very difficult to manage a 'keep your own tips' property.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 12th, 2010 at 9:35:50 AM
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Quote: matildaMy hypothesis is that casino tips are pooled because females make more tips than males but males make the decision to pool or not to pool.
I think there's probably a stronger correlation with personality and friendliness, unless of course the women are dealing cards in their bikinis, which is becoming more and more common.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:56:05 AM
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Quote: nyuhoosierunless of course the women are dealing cards in their bikinis, which is becoming more and more common.
Where are you, and how do I get there?!?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
July 12th, 2010 at 10:01:52 AM
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Quote: boymimboHasn't the whole capitalist movement been to bust unions (Walmart), to pay employees the lowest amount possible (McDonalds), and to outsource everything else (every major company)?
In a word: No.
Unions seem to make sense at first glance, but when you see the way they operate they stop making sense.
Unions are supposed to be an agent for the employees to bargain with their boss. This would work on a company by company basis, but it breaks down when a union represents the employees of many companies at once. When that happens, which is always, union leaders realize they can get mroe money and more power by having more affiliated employees. Therefore they do the follwoing:
1) limit employment to those affiliated with the union
2) increase the number of employees all companies hire.
3) get more benefits to the employees so they'll stay with the union.
The effect of these actions is to limit commerce, increase costs and sometimes drive companies into bankruptcy or insolvency in the long run.
This is particularly pernicious in government unions, because government doesn't need to watch its expenses the way private companies do, and because unions can help determine who gets elected.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 12th, 2010 at 11:43:47 AM
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Quote: boymimboI guess we differ in that respect. I don't feel sorry for what they are doing as well, but I do feel that the service that they provide is valuable to me, be it the extra bottle of shampoo, taking the most direct route to your destination, or being friendly at a table. I tip based on the quality of that service as it makes a difference to me. If I was a true socialist, I would give everyone an equal tip based on nothing. What I am doing is rewarding people for the value that they provide to me, over and beyond the minimum wage that they receive, keeping in mind that the business model at hand is that a substantial portion of their take-home pay is tips.
Put it this way. Would you rather not tip the server and have the company pay the employee $20 / hour and pass along the pricing to you in elevated prices and get crappy service?
I don't like it that employers hire illegals just to keep the cost down, and I certainly don't like the fact that those who are in favor of runaway tipping would expect poor service and higher prices because of it as if that were a bad thing. I don't see crappy service either if tipping went away. What are the floorlings gonna do, make me wait longer for the handpay (so what) or try to pay me less? Is the cashier gonna try to cheat me? The bank tellers and Walgreens clerks don't do that, they're on a close pay scale, and do THEY get tips?
July 12th, 2010 at 11:50:52 AM
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Quote: NareedIn a word: No.
1) limit employment to those affiliated with the union
This is key. Closed shop Unions, especially closed shopped unions over multiple sites no longer serve the best interest of their workers, and instead serve the best interest of the Union itself.
JerryLogan :: Giving tips out to people is nothing like Socialist redistribution of wealth, and to compare to such a thing is to do a disservice to both your argument and socialism.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 12th, 2010 at 11:58:30 AM
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Quote: WizardFirst, I have never tipped a casino cashier. However, I think it is appropriate to tip the slot attendants that do hand pays.
As a skilled player I usually fly above the radar. I play at the same places over and over for years. When you do that, it is important to be liked. Common courtesy goes a longer way than tipping towards that end, but the cost of tips is still worth it. You get better information, are invited to better events, and problems are more likely to get resolved your way.Quote:
Respectfully, my question was dodged but I do have a point to make about this. I understand the "comfort level?" achieved by some players when tipping slot attendants. However, I see slot play as a totally B&W event. I'm probably not well liked at the few places I play regularly because I never tip any of them on handpays, and that means nothing to me. I want their money and they want mine. End of story. I don't go in to make friends. The one item you mantioned that has some meat to it: Resolving problems. I can't recall any problem I've had, ever, that required a casino employee friend to rule in my favor over plain old common sense. Either way, it certainly would never be worth .5% to 1% of my handpays, which as you know comes out to a much larger % of an overall win (IF a player wins).
Good discussion.
July 27th, 2010 at 3:20:13 AM
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I just joined this forum yesterday, and having been reading a lot of the posts. I have a few comments to make. As far as tipping goes, I usually tip dealers at the end of my round if I have won, and don't tip if I've lost. Basically it's just a matter of whether I can afford to or not. I'm not a big roller by any stretch of the imagination, and I usually will leave if I've lost a certain set amount, so I can't really afford to throw away any more just to tip. I normally just give the dealers the tip instead of betting for them, since that way they're guaranteed some money instead of probably losing the bet and not getting anything. The one exception I made to that was during a game of Ultimate Texas Hold' Em when I ended up with a $2.50 chip after a 3-2 pay for a flush. I bet that chip for the dealer on the Ante, and did actually win the hand so she won $5. But this was a woman I've gotten to know fairly well (she actually works behind the table as some sort of pit boss/shift boss, but this casino seems to have those people take shifts as dealers now and then.) I would not ever tip a cashier unless it was some sort of huge win and they did take me to a private room or something like that.
I don't play slots, so that part of this discussion is irrelevant to me. I do pay the waitress for bringing me water, but I'm actually not sure if I'm paying for the water or tipping her. (I know this casino charges for beer, and since I've always handed them the chip as soon as they gave me the bottle I'm not sure if the water is $1 or not. I have given 2 $1 chips and a $2.50 chip also, so at that point I'm sure I'm tipping.) The times I have gone to Vegas I have tipped cabbies and bellboys. I don't remember if I left a tip for the maid or not, but I probably would for a mult-day stay just out of courtesy (either $1 a day or maybe 5 or 10 if I've had a good trip. I never stay more than 2-3 days.)
As for all this other nonsense about Obama and illegal immigration and such, this is really not the place for that. I'm a Republican, and quite frankly can't stand Obama, but this will be the first and last time I ever mention that in this forum. It's just irrelevant to gambling, so why bring it into the discussion? (The only reason I'm mentioning it at all is so that I'm not accused of being one of those who can't stand to hear Obama criticized. I just go to political websites to criticize him, not gambling sites.) And to Logan and Mosca, okay, we get it, you don't like each other. Either e-mail each other directly or start your own website to attack each other, but do the rest of us a favor and leave it off of this site. And I see no sense in some of the insults that have taken place. All the name calling at Jerry is uncalled for, as is Jerry's calling anyone who tips "weak." or a socialist. (Just to be clear, socialism is when the government takes your money and redistributes it so that everyone makes the same amount. Deciding to redistribute it on your own is called charity.) There is room for disagreement in this discussion, so let's keep it civilized
I don't play slots, so that part of this discussion is irrelevant to me. I do pay the waitress for bringing me water, but I'm actually not sure if I'm paying for the water or tipping her. (I know this casino charges for beer, and since I've always handed them the chip as soon as they gave me the bottle I'm not sure if the water is $1 or not. I have given 2 $1 chips and a $2.50 chip also, so at that point I'm sure I'm tipping.) The times I have gone to Vegas I have tipped cabbies and bellboys. I don't remember if I left a tip for the maid or not, but I probably would for a mult-day stay just out of courtesy (either $1 a day or maybe 5 or 10 if I've had a good trip. I never stay more than 2-3 days.)
As for all this other nonsense about Obama and illegal immigration and such, this is really not the place for that. I'm a Republican, and quite frankly can't stand Obama, but this will be the first and last time I ever mention that in this forum. It's just irrelevant to gambling, so why bring it into the discussion? (The only reason I'm mentioning it at all is so that I'm not accused of being one of those who can't stand to hear Obama criticized. I just go to political websites to criticize him, not gambling sites.) And to Logan and Mosca, okay, we get it, you don't like each other. Either e-mail each other directly or start your own website to attack each other, but do the rest of us a favor and leave it off of this site. And I see no sense in some of the insults that have taken place. All the name calling at Jerry is uncalled for, as is Jerry's calling anyone who tips "weak." or a socialist. (Just to be clear, socialism is when the government takes your money and redistributes it so that everyone makes the same amount. Deciding to redistribute it on your own is called charity.) There is room for disagreement in this discussion, so let's keep it civilized
July 27th, 2010 at 5:37:14 AM
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Very well stated opinion / policy on tipping.
For the record, I'm a water drinker too, and I tip $1 for it. FYI: I've never been to a casino that charges for booze, except when you're at a bar-top slot machine.
For the record, I'm a water drinker too, and I tip $1 for it. FYI: I've never been to a casino that charges for booze, except when you're at a bar-top slot machine.
I couldn't agree more (except to say that this forum doesn't have email/private messaging....).Quote: Lhornbk70...And to Logan and Mosca, okay, we get it, you don't like each other. Either e-mail each other directly or start your own website to attack each other, but do the rest of us a favor and leave it off of this site. And I see no sense in some of the insults that have taken place. All the name calling at Jerry is uncalled for, as is Jerry's calling anyone who tips "weak." or a socialist. (Just to be clear, socialism is when the government takes your money and redistributes it so that everyone makes the same amount. Deciding to redistribute it on your own is called charity.) There is room for disagreement in this discussion, so let's keep it civilized
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July 27th, 2010 at 5:59:23 AM
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Where do you play in Nevada that does not comp drinks while playing at the bar?
